Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Mine would be 1, 4, 5, 7, 9.  Hmm, need more choices.  I really love 9's ending but might have to trade it for a later symphony.  I tend to prefer the structured symphonies more than the stream of consciousness ones but will confess my list leaves off some of my favorites.

You may add one more, as The Gothic is essential to Brian's symphonic achievement, and no-one who loves Brian's music would not have it on his or her list of favourites...

[krummholz]

You may add one more, as The Gothic is essential to Brian's symphonic achievement, and no-one who loves Brian's music would not have it on his or her list of favourites...

Yup, and the HBS challenge specifically said to exclude the Gothic as a given, and pick 5 others (thus, really a total of 6 counting #1). I should have mentioned that.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yup, and the HBS challenge specifically said to exclude the Gothic as a given, and pick 5 others (thus, really a total of 6 counting #1). I should have mentioned that.

I should have, too. Never mind...

[krummholz]

In 9, I love the slow movement above all, with its undercurrent of tragedy. I would almost have included it in my list just for that movement, but since we're limited to 5 (other than #1)...

And I'm not sure I agree that the later symphonies are "stream of consciousness" - on first hearing they give that impression, but my feeling is that they are carefully structured to SOUND stream of consciousness even though they aren't. And some movements even bear vague resemblance to traditional forms, like the first movement of #29 which is in a sort-of sonata form of the Mahlerian sort, with a central quiet episode; or the last movement of #21, which is a kind of hybrid sonata-rondo-variations form.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Re Brian's late 'stream of consciousness' symphonies. I grew up with only 6, 8, 9, 10, 21 and 22 available commercially. All the other symphonies I only 'knew' through Malcolm MacDonald's books. I read and reread those so many times that any idea that those later symphonies were somehow less 'structured' didn't even arise. They were just more open and fluid, but just as cogent. When I finally got to know all 32, in the second half of the 1980s, MM had prepared me for anything Brian could throw at me!

[Maestro267]

Mine would be 2, 3, 6, 9 and 10.

Just seen the new rule including the Gothic as a given so updated.

[vandermolen]

Not at all surprised that you're still listening to Brian, Johan!

I was motivated to post by the challenge in the last HBS newsletter to come up with five (5), and only five, standout Brian symphonies, desert island choices as it were. The writer in the newsletter chose 3, 8, 9, 10, and 16.

My choices would be 3, 8, 16, 22, and 30 (with some vacillation between 22 and 27).

Would be interesting to hear other GMGers' choices!

Let me see
The Gothic Symphony
No.3
No.8
No.10
No.22

[krummholz]

Cool! Do you have another pick to add? (The HBS challenge said The Gothic is a given, so you get to choose five in addition to it.)

[relm1]

How did you first encounter Brian's music and what was that experience like?  For me, I randomly purchased a cassette of the Symphony No. 8 and 9 conducted by Sir Charles Groves.  I thought the music was a bit odd but interesting and ultimately thrilling so I kept coming back to it.  I also remember in the cassette booklet, it referenced his massive Gothic Symphony being the largest symphony.  A bit later, at a Tower Records music store (remember those?) in my university town, it had a classical annex and a very knowledgeable classical rep in that section.  Since the annex was closed off, it was always blasting newly released recordings and he played a part of part 1 from Gothic which I recalled reading about from that cassette.  I was very intrigued and purchased it.  I was also captivated by Brian's story of not coming from a composition friendly background (I forget the specifics), being incredibly productive especially way later in life, marching to the beat of his own drum, and thinking he was a reclusive type, etc.  I was hooked on the music and found it incredibly terrifying, stirring, and moving.  He was very interesting as a figure and composer. 

[relm1]

So not a lot of love for the 4th, I'm seeing.  I love that one but not the Marco Polo/Naxos recording but this one with Felicity Palmer and London Philharmonic Orchestra.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XK-d3Jeb2k

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

So not a lot of love for the 4th, I'm seeing.  I love that one but not the Marco Polo/Naxos recording but this one with Felicity Palmer and London Philharmonic Orchestra.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XK-d3Jeb2k

I prefer that one, too. For the record - I like Das Siegeslied, but it's a very special work I don't feel like listening to all that often. I also think we still don't have a really standout performance...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

How did you first encounter Brian's music and what was that experience like?

Long story short. Discovery at Amsterdam Central Library of several books about Brian. That was in the Autumn of 1977. I was 16 at the time, and already deep into Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler. I devoured volume 1 of Malcolm MacDonald's study of the symphonies and was immediately hooked without having heard a note, just through the descriptions. A year later: the Groves 8 &9. It felt like coming home. I had to wrestle a bit with the first movement of 9, but 8 floored me. A year later I got to know the recording of symphonies 10 and 21. I became obsessed by the Tenth. In the meantime I had also read volume 2 of MM's trilogy, and books by Reginald Nettel, Kenneth Eastaugh and Lewis Foreman (all in that Amsterdam Library, really incredible). To wrap up: the Lyrita LP with 6 & 16 came into my possession, and that solidified Brian's position as my 'dream composer' and an inspiring example for me as a budding writer. The rest is... music, through friends I made as a member of the HBS (since 1983), who sent me tape cassettes with radio performances of the symphonies. Brian is still my personal favourite, although there are others vying for that position. But Havergal wins.

[vandermolen]

I also like:
No.2
No.7
No.9
No.11
and No.16

[relm1]

I prefer that one, too. For the record - I like Das Siegeslied, but it's a very special work I don't feel like listening to all that often. I also think we still don't have a really standout performance...

Completely agree with you...again. The music is better than performance we have of it.

[relm1]

Long story short. Discovery at Amsterdam Central Library of several books about Brian. That was in the Autumn of 1977. I was 16 at the time, and already deep into Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler. I devoured volume 1 of Malcolm MacDonald's study of the symphonies and was immediately hooked without having heard a note, just through the descriptions. A year later: the Groves 8 &9. It felt like coming home. I had to wrestle a bit with the first movement of 9, but 8 floored me. A year later I got to know the recording of symphonies 10 and 21. I became obsessed by the Tenth. In the meantime I had also read volume 2 of MM's trilogy, and books by Reginald Nettel, Kenneth Eastaugh and Lewis Foreman (all in that Amsterdam Library, really incredible). To wrap up: the Lyrita LP with 6 & 16 came into my possession, and that solidified Brian's position as my 'dream composer' and an inspiring example for me as a budding writer. The rest is... music, through friends I made as a member of the HBS (since 1983), who sent me tape cassettes with radio performances of the symphonies. Brian is still my personal favourite, although there are others vying for that position. But Havergal wins.

Fantastic!  I had a very unique experience of sitting next to Malcolm MacDonald during the rehearsals of Brisbane's Gothic which was a very unique and wonderful experience.  I hadn't read his books but knew of him through the programs in the CD/cassettes which were usually written by him.  I cherish those few memories because every interaction I had with him was very memorable and I recorded his preconcert speech because I think at the time, the Brisbane was the first Gothic performance in decades, so it was a historic occasion. 

[vandermolen]

Enjoying this new release - the transfers seem very good. I bought this release when it first came out but listening to it for the first time. Both performances are from the BBC Studio in Maida Vale London; a place I know well as I lived for many years, as a child, at Maida Vale and as my uncle worked for the PRS (Performing Rights Society) he often took my brother and myself to performances at the BBC Studio there:

BBC Studios at Maida Vale:

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Enjoying this new release - the transfers seem very good. I bought this release when it first came out but listening to it for the first time. Both performances are from the BBC Studio in Maida Vale London; a place I know well as I lived for many years, as a child, at Maida Vale and as my uncle worked for the PRS (Performing Rights Society) he often took my brother and myself to performances at the BBC Studio there:

BBC Studios at Maida Vale:

Both (first!) performances are still the best, in my opinion.


I was at Maida Vale in late October 1988 for a performance of Brian's Third under Lionel Friend. Afterwards we all repaired to a pub, appropriately named Truscott Arms... I also remember children asking 'a penny for the guy' near Maida Vale Tube station...

[vandermolen]

Both (first!) performances are still the best, in my opinion.


I was at Maida Vale in late October 1988 for a performance of Brian's Third under Lionel Friend. Afterwards we all repaired to a pub, appropriately named Truscott Arms... I also remember children asking 'a penny for the guy' near Maida Vale Tube station...

Great memories Johan. My first encounter with 'The Gothic' was in 1980 at the concert conducted by Old Schmidt at the RAH.

[Irons]

Great memories Johan. My first encounter with 'The Gothic' was in 1980 at the concert conducted by Old Schmidt at the RAH.

How old was he! Then I noticed how close d and e on keyboard.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

How old was he! Then I noticed how close d and e on keyboard.

Didn't spot that. Poor Ol' Schmidt.