Have You Ever Experienced Radical Changes in Your Musical Taste?

[VonStupp]

Serious music and jazz

I have some jazzer friends who would take you to task! 
VS

[Brian]

I found the experience of listening opera while trying to follow along with the translation in one of those little booklets that come with the CD to be extremely unsatisfying. I switched over the DVDs then Blu-rays so I could see the action and have subtitles on screen. Huge improvement, although I no longer can find the time.

Ah, the other problem - time. I don't watch enough movies anymore either.    Generally maybe only 2 movies a month, where I'd prefer something like 2 a week. There are just too many ways to spend one's time that are easier to portion out or interrupt...

[Opus131]

Probably when i went from the rock/metal of my upbringing to classical. It wasn't sudden, took me a while before i actually understood classical music (around two years to be exact, from age 20 to 22) but the moment it finally "clicked" in my brain i couldn't turn back. If i still listen to rock it's usually out of nostalgia.

[vers la flamme]

Op 131

Ah, Reger's suites for solo cello. A fine choice. 

[steve ridgway]

I enjoy King Crimson from all decades. I allow groups to change their sound/style with time. For me it is richness how The Power to Believe is very different from In the Court of the Crimson King. Same with groups like Tangerine Dream: It is so cool there are so many different variations of the style with time and if you can't enjoy the mediocre/bad stuff of a group, then maybe you aren't a fan after all? Rather a casual listener...

I once read some notes in which Edgar Froese said that after that first Tangerine Dream album of noise rock he wanted to create extremely slow music and for inspiration listened to Ligeti and King Crimson's In The Wake Of Poseidon (at 16 rpm).

[Opus131]

For me, King Crimson effectively finished with Red album. I listened to later records, of course, but it was only recycled at best. Same goes for Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, et al. None survived past the 70s.

Objectively speaking, Discipline is their most "perfect" album since their first one though.

This seems to be a case of expecting a particular sound or style from them rather than judging the music for its actual worth.

I think this is all the more relevant because part of the reason Robert Fripp went full 80s and brought someone like Adrian Belew on board was precisely to dispel the notion that "progressive" rock HAD to sound a certain way, specifically, the way bands like Yes, Emerson, Lake & Palmer etc sounded in the 70s.

Discipline was a remarkable landmark because it was one of the most sophisticated rock albums of the 80s but didn't sound at all like what people assumed "progressive rock" ought to sound.

It's too bad internal conflict ruined that initial inspiration as the two following albums were nowhere near as good but i guess that's just normal for King Crimson, as it happened in the 70s as well.

King Crimson reinvented themselves again in the 90s as well with Thrak, which sadly wasn't as strong as Discipline in my opinion. The BEST thing to come out of that line up for me was Live in Jazz Cafe:

This is just a series of improv tracks Crimson performed live but for me it's their best album since Discipline and the Bruford/Levin pair up is what i would consider to be one of the best rhythm sections in rock history.

[steve ridgway]

Objectively speaking, Discipline is their most "perfect" album since their first one though.

This seems to be a case of expecting a particular sound or style from them rather than judging the music for its actual worth.

I think this is all the more relevant because part of the reason Robert Fripp went full 80s and brought someone like Adrian Belew on board was precisely to dispel the notion that "progressive" rock HAD to sound a certain way, specifically, the way bands like Yes, Emerson, Lake & Palmer etc sounded in the 70s.

I enjoyed Discipline at the time, but should mention that Henry Cow had already demonstrated the above more than adequately with Western Culture.

[Opus131]

I would classify that more as avant-guard rock. While those definitions are likely a bit arbitrary, i think progressive rock needs to still be somewhat within the reach of the average listener, no matter how "advanced" it may be. 

Someone like Frank Zappa would seem to qualify as both.

[AnotherSpin]

Objectively speaking, Discipline is their most "perfect" album since their first one though.

This seems to be a case of expecting a particular sound or style from them rather than judging the music for its actual worth.

I think this is all the more relevant because part of the reason Robert Fripp went full 80s and brought someone like Adrian Belew on board was precisely to dispel the notion that "progressive" rock HAD to sound a certain way, specifically, the way bands like Yes, Emerson, Lake & Palmer etc sounded in the 70s.

Discipline was a remarkable landmark because it was one of the most sophisticated rock albums of the 80s but didn't sound at all like what people assumed "progressive rock" ought to sound.

It's too bad internal conflict ruined that initial inspiration as the two following albums were nowhere near as good but i guess that's just normal for King Crimson, as it happened in the 70s as well.

King Crimson reinvented themselves again in the 90s as well with Thrak, which sadly wasn't as strong as Discipline in my opinion. The BEST thing to come out of that line up for me was Live in Jazz Cafe:

This is just a series of improv tracks Crimson performed live but for me it's their best album since Discipline and the Bruford/Levin pair up is what i would consider to be one of the best rhythm sections in rock history.

Perfection can easily become a sign of decline. Everything they did, all the way up to Red, was on the way to their prime. Long descent after that, polishing and honing, why not. I came to Crimson in the early 70's, starting with Starless and Bible Black LP I believe. Perhaps your introduction to the band came later, during the Discipline era? We tend to love what we started with. Everybody was excited with Discipline released after long hiatus, during punk/new wave era. Belew's participation was of added excitement. Beat was slight disappointment, Three of a Perfect Pair was rather perplexing. But, the three coloured albums somehow slipped away quickly.

[71 dB]

Are we talking about rock music? Sure, I listen to a lot less rock music now than I used to. Serious music and jazz take up the bulk of my time. There are a few rock artists that are still relevant to me, but again these are records made before the late 70's. First, Grateful Dead, Bob Dylan. Then, Zappa, Rolling Stones, The Who, Jethro Tull, Creedence CR, Allman Brothers, Jefferson Airplane, Santana, Black Sabbath first 3-4 albums. Led Zeppelin, first 5 albums. Genesis up to Trick of the Tail, Yes, up to Relayer. The Moody Blues, Pink Floyd up to The Wall. Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, Neil Young, Clapton, Elton, Queen, Van Morrison, Bowie, early Joe Cocker. War, Al Green, Marvin Gaye. The Clash. There's actually a lot of stuff, quite enough.

Well, any music made after the 70's. For me it has been the other way around: When I got into listening to music in the late 80's, it was the music of the day that interested me for the most part. Later I have been expanding my interest backwards from the late 80's after realising the 70's gave us some very interesting and great music.

[brewski]

I was lucky to grow up around a collection of classical LPs. My mom was (and still is) a fan of the Ormandy/Philadelphia years, so we had a few of those, including Rachmaninoff. Also on the premises: albums of Chopin by pianists Alexander Brailowsky and Artur Rubinstein, Beethoven's 5th with Bernstein and the NYPO, and a few wild cards like Prokofiev's Scythian Suite and Lieutenant Kije with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra and Hermann Scherchen.

50 years later, I still like all of those recordings today, even if I don't listen to them often.

A turning point came when I discovered Berio's Sinfonia—the original 1969 recording with Berio, the Swingle Singers, and the NYPO. (Yes, I bought it partly because of its intriguing cover.) After that I began exploring other contemporary composers, e.g., Terry Riley, Steve Reich, and Conlon Nancarrow. My interest in contemporary music has only escalated since, to perhaps 50% of my listening. But I still enjoy all of those above and many other "traditional" classical composers. (Hearing an all-Brahms concert tonight.)

I often think of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, and how radical it must have sounded to ears at that time. Fast-forward to today, when one of my mantras is: listen to as much as possible once, since something you've never heard may become your favorite piece.

-Bruce

[AnotherSpin]

Oh, there were some good albums in 80s: Roxy Music, Tom Waits, Springsteen, Tom Petty, Paul Simon, The Police, Dire Straits, U2... Some in 90s: Beck, Pearl Jam, Radiohead, Nick Cave, PJ Harvey, Rage Against the Machine, My Bloody Valentine, something else. However, I prefer 70s.

[71 dB]

This seems to be a case of expecting a particular sound or style from them rather than judging the music for its actual worth.

Who are we to judge what kind of music artists make? Our job is to figure out whether we like the music or not. That's why judging the music for its actual worth is the way to go. I like pretty much everything King Crimson has made, some of it more than other stuff which is completely normal, but I don't have a need to even think about when their "decline" started if at all. For me the idea that KC has been in decline after the album Red is ridiculous.

[71 dB]

I came to Crimson in the early 70's, starting with Starless and Bible Black LP I believe. Perhaps your introduction to the band came later, during the Discipline era? We tend to love what we started with. Everybody was excited with Discipline released after long hiatus, during punk/new wave era. Belew's participation was of added excitement. Beat was slight disappointment, Three of a Perfect Pair was rather perplexing. But, the three coloured albums somehow slipped away quickly.

As I have mentioned many times, I came to KC in 2008 and I was able to sample all their studio albums and beyond. Needless to say I was astonished by how sophisticated and interesting all of it sounded to me. Finally I had discovered rock music that didn't sound stupid, but smart to me.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Discipline, Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair form the "Gamelan phase" of King Crimson. You are the one setting the criteria of what you want from them. I don't expect them to have made their debut album a dozen times again and again.

I'm willing to give Discipline another chance. The term "gamelan phase" is intriguing.

For whatever reason it seems that not only the UK but also the US have long been more "elitist" about opera, maybe because they had stronger popular music already in the late 19th century or because the famous composers were mostly German, Italian or French.

US and UK also had their music hall/ vaudeville/ Broadway musical traditions, which were basically the local versions of operetta.

[Karl Henning]

The very first opera I've ever seen was Carmen, the movie with Domingo and Julia Migenes. I was instantly hooked and went to see it again after a few days. 

Carmen is the opera to suggest to a friend who thinks he hates all opera.

[Karl Henning]

I remember the first time I actually got into an opera.  It was Bluebeard's Castle (Bartok).  I told Gurn and he replied "you only like it because it is short!"  Busted!  Well it is great... but I need to acknowledge that the time commitment is far shorter than the Ring.

Anyway the gateway to opera for me was... Handel.  His operas are musically rich.  And the funny thing is that is an odd entry point since I bet most people came into opera through Mozart, Wagner or Puccini.

The brevity is (so to say) the least of Bluebeard's Castle's virtues: an unalloyedly superb opera!

[71 dB]

I'm willing to give Discipline another chance. The term "gamelan phase" is intriguing.

That's good. Clear your mind of expectations set by their prior albums and just listen to the music. 

[Jo498]

US and UK also had their music hall/ vaudeville/ Broadway musical traditions, which were basically the local versions of operetta.

Sure, the question might be if this popular music was seen as continous with opera/classical or an alternative to it. I don't know enough about early 20th century culture but e.g. in Wodehouse Wooster and his Drone Club buddies love vaudevilles with dancing girls but usually dread real Opera if some aunts or highbrow fiancées threaten to drag them into one.

[AnotherSpin]

Who are we to judge what kind of music artists make? Our job is to figure out whether we like the music or not. That's why judging the music for its actual worth is the way to go. I like pretty much everything King Crimson has made, some of it more than other stuff which is completely normal, but I don't have a need to even think about when their "decline" started if at all. For me the idea that KC has been in decline after the album Red is ridiculous.

Any system, be it a person, a society or a musical band, has its life cycle. From birth and rapid development to prime, and then gradual decline and, finally, termination of life. The point of prime can be observed in the work of any band. The decline is not fatal, theoretically it is possible to return back to the prime. In practice it happens very rarely, rather as an exception. Also, prime can be explained as a perfect combination of flexibility and control. After Red, Crimson has much more control than flexibility. This is obvious in the comparison. That's what I see, but you don't have to agree.