David Hurwitz

[Florestan]

if you don't know any of Spontini, I encourage you to hear the exciting "Agnes von Hohenstaufen," which desperately needs a great modern recording.)

Actually, far from being dead ends Spontini's operas influenced Meyerbeer, Berlioz and Wagner.

[Brian]

This thread truly never changes... People who've decided "Dave good" or "Dave bad" repeat their positions as if they will ever convince each other (or as if we forgot where everyone stands)... At least this time I learned about Spontini and got some possible tips on where to start listening to Boulez?

[(poco) Sforzando]

The positive review you refer to was written in 2000. The change to saying Boulez is crap is later than that. To me, intellectual dishonesty would be removing the evidence that in the distant past he didn't think Boulez was crap (isn't THAT the acknowledgment you want?), but there are plenty of reviews on the site taking his subsequent view that Boulez is crap.  It doesn't represent contemporary nuance, it represents a different opinion in the distant past.

The review includes a clip from 2000, but the Complete Works set was not released until 2013. A nuanced online review from Hurwitz could have stated that his opinion has evolved, albeit in a negative direction. Of course I could make reference in the comments to Hurwitz's prior opinions, but what's the chance any such comment wouldn't be deleted?

I will grant that in the talk on "Three Composers We Could Live Without," Hurwitz admits to enjoying Rituel - a piece I always refer to as "Boulez for People who Don't Like Boulez." Good for you, Dave. But the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

(The argument that Boulez's work now sounds "terribly dated" is not very strong either. Do we listen to music with an ear towards when it was written, or whether it is good music or not? The later works of Bach were doubtless "terribly dated" in the 1740s.)

[Karl Henning]

The intellectual dishonesty is to say "it's all garbage" in the 30-second video without acknowledging the more nuanced opinion given in the online reviews.

Hurwitz wouldn't know nuance if it handed him a mic on the stage.

[Madiel]

This thread truly never changes... People who've decided "Dave good" or "Dave bad" repeat their positions as if they will ever convince each other (or as if we forgot where everyone stands)... At least this time I learned about Spontini and got some possible tips on where to start listening to Boulez?

Ahem. I have quite clearly stated things about Hurwitz' videos that I don't like.

But thank you for continuing the spirit of sweeping basic generalisation that this thread is so committed to.

I'll be unsubscribing next time I'm on a computer rather than phone. I've honestly had enough.

[Karl Henning]

Rituel - a piece I always refer to as "Boulez for People who Don't Like Boulez."

This is one of the twelve best things I've read on this thread.

[(poco) Sforzando]

This thread truly never changes... People who've decided "Dave good" or "Dave bad" repeat their positions as if they will ever convince each other (or as if we forgot where everyone stands)... At least this time I learned about Spontini and got some possible tips on where to start listening to Boulez?

I would never say "Dave good" or "Dave bad" as an absolute opinion. When he is on point, he can be extremely insightful. The talk from two weeks ago on "Music Chat: Two Kinds of 'Authenticity'--Which Is More Valid?," for example, was superb, and makes highly convincing points about the shortcomings of the HIP movement. I remember also an excellent talk on the Bruckner 6th Symphony. And numerous others. On the other hand, the talk on "How and why Development Sections Work" seemed to me inadequate, talking about happy themes and sad themes and saying nothing (for instance) about the important matters of tonality within the development section or the re-transition back to the recapitulation.

And his record reviews are often on point too. I just got the 2CD set of French Symphonic Poems, which he raved about and I would agree.

My main problem with Hurwitz, as always, has been his defensiveness towards dissenting opinions. You can't really have a discussion with him, since you never know if he'll get snippy or just delete your comment. I've had both happen to me, and as a result I won't participate on his site any longer.

[Karl Henning]

For Boulez, I usually suggest this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OFOfOhJU7YA&pp=ygUVQm91bGV6IHBpYW5vIHNvbmF0YSAz, and I suggest it because I find it fascinating to watch someone work through the piece (his 3rd Piano Sonata).

Very nice. I forget which piano sonata it was, but I was tactically surprised by how well I liked it.

[Karl Henning]

Actually, far from being dead ends Spontini's operas influenced Meyerbeer, Berlioz and Wagner.

It's almost as if the reviewer made his workday easier by uncritically adopting a vulgar prejudice. We're all ignorant of swaths of the literature, but few of us wear that ignorance as a kind of badge.

[DavidW]

Actually, far from being dead ends Spontini's operas influenced Meyerbeer, Berlioz and Wagner.

I've listened to classical music for close to thirty years.  It is frankly humbling to discover a composer of some significance that I never heard of.  Maybe it is time to dust off some books on classical music!

[Brian]

Sorry, yes, my division into good/bad camps erased a good bit of nuance and more intelligent/studious consideration of the man and his work. That was a mistake. Perhaps a more fair way of phrasing it is that this thread sees a lot of talking points restated and repeated.

I will check out that "authenticity" video! I like it much more when he takes a few hours to think about things to say, vs. "random reviews" of CDs pulled off his shelf. In fact, what I like is when his videos evince the kind of planning and articulation required of a piece of writing.

Here is where I will hypocritically revisit one of my own talking points...I do wish the guy got back to writing. He has obviously decided this is easier or more fun. His last new printed review at CT appears to be this album released in 2021. I let my subscription lapse because the premium content was mostly reissue boxes and previously free reviews being reposted behind the paywall.

[DavidW]

Here is where I will hypocritically revisit one of my own talking points...I do wish the guy got back to writing. He has obviously decided this is easier or more fun.

It is more challenging but worthwhile to write a review.  Really focus your thoughts and think hard about what you are trying to articulate as you revise and revise... another thing to turn on a camera blather on for an hour and then edit out the bad parts.  But that other thing probably has more ad revenue behind it and receives more attention.

[Brian]

It is more challenging but worthwhile to write a review.  Really focus your thoughts and think hard about what you are trying to articulate as you revise and revise... another thing to turn on a camera blather on for an hour and then edit out the bad parts.  But that other thing probably has more ad revenue behind it and receives more attention.

You're hitting me where it hurts  writing long considered studied reviews of restaurants is my day job...but the reviews that go viral are TikTok video producers who make 60 second clips inside the restaurant where they say something like "this chicken is amaaaaazing" and that's it...maybe I'm in the wrong business too   

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Ahem. I have quite clearly stated things about Hurwitz' videos that I don't like.

But thank you for continuing the spirit of sweeping basic generalisation that this thread is so committed to.

I'll be unsubscribing next time I'm on a computer rather than phone. I've honestly had enough.

Please don't.  I've appreciated your contributions on this forum...and I'm sure that I'm not alone here.

All the best,

PD

[(poco) Sforzando]

and then edit out the bad parts.

Not sure how much of that (if any) happens either.

[DavidW]

You're hitting me where it hurts  writing long considered studied reviews of restaurants is my day job...but the reviews that go viral are TikTok video producers who make 60 second clips inside the restaurant where they say something like "this chicken is amaaaaazing" and that's it...maybe I'm in the wrong business too   

Well I suppose you could supplement your written review with a Tik Tok video (unless your paper doesn't allow that)!

[Brian]

Please don't.  I've appreciated your contributions on this forum...and I'm sure that I'm not alone here.

All the best,

PD

I think he means unsubscribing from alerts about new posts in this thread.

[Papy Oli]

Now, hear the Word of the Lord...

keeping us on the straight and marrow...




say what ? we moved on from bones and skeletons ??   


(PS:  had to google the song it came from. Another positive from that thread    )

[Florestan]

Please don't.  I've appreciated your contributions on this forum...and I'm sure that I'm not alone here.

All the best,

PD

I'm absolutely sure @Madiel meant unsubscribing from this specific thread, not from GMG altogether.

[DavidW]

keeping us on the straight and marrow...

say what ? we moved on from bones and skeletons ??   

It was getting a little long in the tooth.  There wasn't much meat left on the bone.