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[Florestan]

Well, I suppose that in an age when compositions were fully written out (except for cadenzas or ornamentation s that were left to the discretion of the performer), it could be thought that if an "arch" were expected, it too would have been written out in full.

Your premise appears to br that a pause between movements is awkward. For whom? For us in the 21st century, for audiences in the 18th century, or for one particular listener? I for one, see nothing strange in that (as I am used to it), and one could think that 18th century composers didn't either (or they wouldn't have written works with separate movements).

Actually, back then the first parts of a work may have been played in the first part of the concert and the last parts in the second part of the concerts, in which case everything being played in between may be said to have constituted an arch. 

[prémont]

Erik Satie apparently disagreed with this statement....
 

We should see what Adorno and Derrida say on the issue. 

These brave gentlemen are irrelevant in the context of Mozart's performance practice.

[Todd]

Impropriety alert.

[Todd]

These brave gentlemen are irrelevant in the context of Mozart's performance practice.

A reactionary viewpoint.

[prémont]

A reactionary viewpoint.

Maybe, but it's 100% certain that Mozart didn't take their viewpoints into consideration.

[ritter]

...



Impropriety alert.

Well, after "Rameau meets Abba", this seems perfectly kosher... 

[Todd]

Maybe, but it's 100% certain that Mozart didn't take their viewpoints into consideration.

So?  Mozart has been dead for centuries.  Living people play his music now, while the dust of what used to be Mozart's corpse does not.  What living people do is more interesting than what reactionaries think Mozart may have done.

[Todd]

Well, after "Rameau meets Abba", this seems perfectly kosher... 

Methinks the Rameau-Abba collab is all about the money, money, money.

[ritter]

So?  Mozart has been dead for centuries.  Living people play his music now, while the dust of what used to be Mozart's corpse does not.  What living people do is more interesting than what reactionaries think Mozart may have done.

Well, let's then not raise any eyebrows the next time a disc of "Bach on the harmonica" or something like that is released, lest we too be labelled "reactionaries".

[Todd]

Well, let's then not raise any eyebrows the next time a disc of "Bach on the harmonica" or something like that is released, lest we also be labelled "reactionaries".

Taking this logic to its conclusion, Mozart keyboard works should never be played on modern grands.  That will not do.  Obviously.  Besides, there's a world of difference between playing interludes between movements and sonatas on the same instrument and playing Bach on a harmonica, which is recognized as a criminal behavior in forty-three jurisdictions.

[Madiel]

What we really need is information about what was on the Billboard sales charts in the 1780s.

Improvisations were undoubtedly a thing in Mozart's day. My point was that I don't know of any evidence that they were done between movements. And someone trying to sell it as a thing aligning with Mozartean practice is, rather than just saying "well this is the 21st century and I can do what the hell I want" is inevitably inviting assessment of whether what they're doing fits within the conventions of the past.

Same goes for the recent album of a Dvorak symphony using electric or electronic instruments. They tried to justify it. Meanwhile, there are plenty of rock and pop musicians who have taken classical compositions and done things with them, but they haven't tried to justify those actions in the same way. Billie Eilish has a song based on Holst, and while she explains the background, she doesn't try to make claims about how the result is true to Holst. She doesn't need to because she isn't selling to a market where people generally even know who Holst is.

[ritter]

...playing Bach on a harmonica, which is recognized as a criminal behavior in forty-three jurisdictions.

Sadly, not in Spain...

Poor Spain, from being "the spiritual reserve of the West" to finding herself reduced to this...    ... 

[Todd]

Sadly, not in Spain...

Poor Spain, from being "the spiritual reserve of the West" to finding herself reduced to this...    ... 

[Florestan]

Sadly, not in Spain...

Poor Spain, from being "the spiritual reserve of the West" to finding herself reduced to this...    ... 

Can you please explain me in no uncertain terms, Rafael, just what is wrong with that?

[ritter]

Can you please explain me in no uncertain terms, Rafael, just what is wrong with that?

Everything?

[Madiel]

Can you please explain me in no uncertain terms, Rafael, just what is wrong with that?

1. The use of quote marks
2. They're probably not using Baroque pitch for A 

[Florestan]

Everything?

If you be so kind.

[ritter]

If you be so kind.

"Everything" was my answer to your question...

[Mandryka]

Well, I suppose that in an age when compositions were fully written out (except for cadenzas or ornamentations that were left to the discretion of the performer), it could be thought that if an "arch" were expected, it too would have been written out in full.

Your premise appears to br that a pause between movements is awkward or presents an "aesthetic problem". For whom? For us in the 21st century, for audiences in the 18th century, or for one particular listener? I for one, see nothing strange in that (as I am used to it), and one could think that 18th century composers didn't either (or they wouldn't have written works with separate movements).

Well it's a problem for the performer (or opportunity!) now and then and in the future because the performer has to decide what to do about the caesura. As you say, improvisations was all part of performers' craft then, and they were at the performer's discretion.


Looking at architecture and furniture may help us to get a handle on how transitions were managed in the 18th century. The transition from adagio to rondo is analogous to the transition from entrance hallway to the first floor. In their best, most prized, art and architecture, did they deal with it abruptly or did the lead in a less coarse way from one part of the building to the next?

[JBS]

Well, after "Rameau meets Abba", this seems perfectly kosher... 

Here's Fur Elise. I wouldn't put it on heavy rotation, but I rather like it.