What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

[ritter]

I am sorry to have to inform members that internet fora do not work on the basis of "I can bully and insult others, but if I am bullied and insulted, then that is unacceptable."

Unfortunately, given how things have evolved, this thread is now again locked until further notice..

EDIT: Unlocked.

[71 dB]

I' sorry if my posts were partially responsible of this thread being locked for a while. Meanwhile I have been asking people on another forum for advices how to express my views without making things personal and have other member feel being disrespected and bullied.

I also apologise Harry and AnotherSpin if my posts have been too much. I try to express myself differently going forward. Hopefully that helps.

[Spotted Horses]

I' sorry if my posts were partially responsible of this thread being locked for a while. Meanwhile I have been asking people on another forum for advices how to express my views without making things personal and have other member feel being disrespected and bullied.

I also apologise Harry and AnotherSpin if my posts have been too much. I try to express myself differently going forward. Hopefully that helps.

It's not that complicated. Just confine yourself to relaying technical information. And realize that the faithful will never be persuaded by facts. I am commenting for the benefit of people looking at the thread wondering if it is really necessary to take out a second mortgage on their house to buy an audiophile USB cable.

[Mandryka]

It's not that complicated. Just confine yourself to relaying technical information. And realize that the faithful will never be persuaded by facts. I am commenting for the benefit of people looking at the thread wondering if it is really necessary to take out a second mortgage on their house to buy an audiophile USB cable.

A fuse is cheaper than that

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/synergistic-research/synergistic-research-fuses?srsltid=AfmBOoq8LlELR40tcO871qIMimaJsi-9e_haDN7i2NOUOHSxCcaWE7ge

[Spotted Horses]

A fuse is cheaper than that

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/synergistic-research/synergistic-research-fuses?srsltid=AfmBOoq8LlELR40tcO871qIMimaJsi-9e_haDN7i2NOUOHSxCcaWE7ge

I could imagine circumstances where it would be sensible to pay £150 for a fuse, assuming it is very precisely calibrated and needed to protect expensive equipment (and not an ordinary fuse all dolled up). A fuse is analog!

[hopefullytrusting]

It's not that complicated. Just confine yourself to relaying technical information. And realize that the faithful will never be persuaded by facts. I am commenting for the benefit of people looking at the thread wondering if it is really necessary to take out a second mortgage on their house to buy an audiophile USB cable.

And to add to this, recognize that there are other sciences which may trump the science you are bringing to the table (see genetics). If this forum has taught me anything, is that my hearing is diminished when compared to some on this forum, and I imagine that some on this forum have perfect pitch - I do not - and I can imagine that will change listening, perhaps not hearing, significantly).

[AnotherSpin]

A fuse is cheaper than that

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/synergistic-research/synergistic-research-fuses?srsltid=AfmBOoq8LlELR40tcO871qIMimaJsi-9e_haDN7i2NOUOHSxCcaWE7ge

At some point, I bought a few audiophile-grade fuses and a special fuse switch, also audiophile, of course. Around the same time, I replaced the wiring that powered my setup. The difference was quite noticeable, across several parameters.

And yes, I do know what the sceptics will say, so may I kindly suggest that the physicists experts among us take a deep breath and try not to combust .

[AnotherSpin]

A fuse is cheaper than that

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/synergistic-research/synergistic-research-fuses?srsltid=AfmBOoq8LlELR40tcO871qIMimaJsi-9e_haDN7i2NOUOHSxCcaWE7ge

I thought it might be worth adding a small note. One of the main arguments levelled by opponents of high-quality sound is that audiophile solutions are expensive, prohibitively so. In truth, that's not quite accurate. In fact, I've come across outrageously priced systems that sounded frankly dreadful. Conversely, some crucial audiophile components can be surprisingly affordable.

A few examples spring to mind. At one point, I commissioned a local metal workshop to make special stands from aircraft-grade aluminium for next to nothing. These were designed to hold speakers and other components on steel ball bearings, which also cost me mere pennies. I drew up the design myself on a computer, free of charge.

Or take another case. I've mentioned before that I use linear power supplies. In my opinion, that's one of the most significant upgrades I've ever made. The improvement in sound quality was considerable. The main LPSU was built for me by an engineer in Scotland and cost a small fortune. But others, for components like a router for example, were made here in Ukraine and they cost only a little more than standard off-the-shelf AC adapters.

So no, it's not all about money. A touch of curiosity, a bit of perseverance and a hint of inspiration, that's really what it takes. Well, that and perhaps a tolerance for the occasional raised eyebrow.

[71 dB]

I refuse to pay for an audiophile fuse. The audio gear I use has got properly engineered power supply circuitry providing clean power even when there's tons of interferences in the electricity coming from the mains. Such power supply isn't even difficult to design. After the transformer there is a (full) bridge rectifier that makes DC from AC, but the output of a bridge rectifier much be regulated. Typically the output is fed to capacitors, regulators and then another capacitors. The result should be extremely clean and stable DC power regardless of how much the fuses have cost.

Audiophiles modifying their gear can lead to situations were there is danger of electric shocks or fire.

Fuses aren't my problem. My problem is that certain parts of my gear aren't robust enough for my heavy usage. Recently my headphones extension cable became faulty and I am trying to figure out how to fix it so that it will serve me reliably as long as possible.

[AnotherSpin]

The main goal of using an audiophile fuse isn't just to protect your gear (though it still does that). The real reason people use them is to improve sound quality.

Compared to standard fuses, audiophile versions are made with higher-quality materials, like pure silver wire, gold-plated ends, and ceramic casings. And sometimes treated with things like cryogenic freezing or vibration damping. The idea is to reduce electrical noise and allow cleaner power flow, which might result in better sound: tighter bass, clearer highs, and an overall more refined presentation. And yes, audiophile fuses are often directional.

Do they actually make a difference? That depends on your setup. On simpler or budget gear, the improvement is likely to be minimal or not noticeable at all.

[71 dB]

The main goal of using an audiophile fuse isn't just to protect your gear (though it still does that).

What do you think normal fuses are for?

The real reason people use them is to improve sound quality.

I know. Some people experience improved sound when they know their gear is equipped with fuses that are sold as "audiophile fuses" with a massive price tag.

Compared to standard fuses, audiophile versions are made with higher-quality materials, like pure silver wire, gold-plated ends, and ceramic casings.

Silver is actually bad material for fuse wire, because it has high melting point (almost 1000°C). For lower melting temperature, metals such as tin and lead are used instead if the current is less than 15 A. When the current exceeds 15 A, copper is a common choice, but the melting point is even higher than for silver. Silver has some advantages such as immunity to oxidation but is also expensive.

Gold plated ends of course prevent oxidation, but how about where the fuse is placed? No gold plating there I suppose. How much voltage drop does a fuse with oxidation cause? Removing the fuse once a year and putting it back probably removes the effects of oxidation if you are worried about it. Or some CRC electronic cleaner?

Ceramic casings are for industrial and high voltage use. They withstand heat and high pressure better than glass casings. For audio and consumer electronics in general, fuses in glass casing are ideal.

So basically these audiophile fuses are fuses that are for say power tools in a car factory and not consumer electronics. For Toyota, $100 fuses cost "nothing" if they ensure there are no interruptions in the production of cars. For audiophiles it is $100 wasted, money that could have been spend on acoustic treatment of the listening room for example.

And sometimes treated with things like cryogenic freezing or vibration damping. The idea is to reduce electrical noise and allow cleaner power flow, which might result in better sound: tighter bass, clearer highs, and an overall more refined presentation. And yes, audiophile fuses are often directional.

Mains power is pretty noisy as it is. Every time an electric appliance starts or stops nearby, it sends an impulse to the wires. These impulses can be even 1000 volts, but most electronic devices don't mind them at all. These impulses are so short that carry almost no power and they get easily filtered out. Audio devices of course are designed to filter these impulses effectively, because otherwise there could be a lot of interferences in the sound. "Vibrating" fuses are a drop in the sea. If this wasn't the case, almost all audio devices (except maybe the cheapest ones) would pay attention to damping fuses, but they don't. Because it doesn't matter.

Direction is another audiophile marketing BS term. Current is current and in AC it changes direction 50 or 60 times a second depending where in the World you are.

Do they actually make a difference? That depends on your setup. On simpler or budget gear, the improvement is likely to be minimal or not noticeable at all.

Can you hear the difference reliably if you don't know which fuses are in use? Have you never in your life experienced a situation where your perception has been influenced by your expectations?

[AnotherSpin]

[...]
Can you hear the difference reliably if you don't know which fuses are in use? Have you never in your life experienced a situation where your perception has been influenced by your expectations?

1. In my setup, the difference in sound quality after installing specialized fuses was noticeable.

2. You don't seriously think I'm interested in reviving the endless discussion of physics laws versus good sound, do you? @Mandryka mentioned audiophile fuses, I shared my experience. That's all, folks .

[Fëanor]

...
Can you hear the difference reliably if you don't know which fuses are in use? Have you never in your life experienced a situation where your perception has been influenced by your expectations?

1. In my setup, the difference in sound quality after installing specialized fuses was noticeable.

So you didn't answer 71 dB's question.  Did anyone other than you find the differences noticeable?  Have you put your perceptions to the test such as a strict blind A/B comparison?

It's fine if you simply don't care whether you perceptions will past the test but be honest about that.

2. You don't seriously think I'm interested in reviving the endless discussion of physics laws versus good sound, do you? @Mandryka mentioned audiophile fuses, I shared my experience. That's all, folks .

That's all fine provided you make it clear that those are you impressions that aren't proven in fact and which others may not share.

[AnotherSpin]

1. In my setup, the difference in sound quality after installing specialized fuses was noticeable.

So you didn't answer 71 dB's question.  Did anyone other than you find the differences noticeable?  Have you put your perceptions to the test such as a strict blind A/B comparison?

It's fine if you simply don't care whether you perceptions will past the test but be honest about that.

That's all fine provided you make it clear that those are you impressions that aren't proven in fact and which others may not share.

What a peculiar and rather amusing comment, if I may say so. I couldn't care less what others may have heard, or what the physics textbook has to say. I'm not in the habit of seeking external validation. My entirely subjective opinion is the only thing that concerns me. And just for you, I shall repeat it slowly: on my rather advanced audio setup, the difference was perfectly audible, and that, I assure you, is all the honesty I require.

[71 dB]

1. In my setup, the difference in sound quality after installing specialized fuses was noticeable.

I have also experienced many times "noticeable" changes in my setup only to later realise it was all imagined rather than real. If audiophile fuses trick your brain to experience better sound then the magic works for you, that's fine, but making claims about real differences without supportive evidence from measurements or science is another story...

2. You don't seriously think I'm interested in reviving the endless discussion of physics laws versus good sound, do you? @Mandryka mentioned audiophile fuses, I shared my experience. That's all, folks .

It is up to you what you are interested in...

The laws of physics govern the real sound and psychoacoustics govern how we perceive those sounds. I have noticed I tend to enjoy music more in the evenings compared to mornings. Doesn't mean my setup produces better sound quality later in the day. It means my ears/mind are in a less suitable state for music after the quiet night.

[Florestan]

I have also experienced many times "noticeable" changes in my setup only to later realise it was all imagined rather than real.

Noticeable is one thing, measurable is quite another. If proper and accurate measurements show that there is absolutely no difference in sound properties between, say, two cables, two fuses or two whatever, then the "noticeability" is clearly in the ear of the specific listener only. Any other listener would in all probability not notice any difference at all in a blind test.

The laws of physics govern the real sound and psychoacoustics govern how we perceive those sounds.

Crux of the matter, really.

[71 dB]

I couldn't care less what others may have heard, or what the physics textbook has to say. I'm not in the habit of seeking external validation. My entirely subjective opinion is the only thing that concerns me.

I have stopped seeking external validation when it comes to subjective things such as music taste. However, when we are talking about objective reality, external opinions are kind of relevant and solipsism can be harmful.

Physics textbooks don't directly say audiophile fuses are a scam. They provide the knowledge to critically evaluate such products.

[71 dB]

Noticeable is one thing, measurable is quite another. If proper and accurate measurements show that there is absolutely no difference in sound properties between, say, two cables, two fuses or two whatever, then the "noticeability" is clearly in the ear of the specific listener only. Any other listener would in all probability not notice any difference at all in a blind test.

In fact, measurements can expose even differences nobody can hear! If the measurement gear is accurate and sensitive enough, it may get different measurements for two fuses. When the measured differences are small enough to not be audible based on science, the perceived differences are indeed caused by placebo/expectation/confirmation bias and typically vanish in proper blind listening tests.

[AnotherSpin]

I have also experienced many times "noticeable" changes in my setup only to later realise it was all imagined rather than real. If audiophile fuses trick your brain to experience better sound then the magic works for you, that's fine, but making claims about real differences without supportive evidence from measurements or science is another story...
It is up to you what you are interested in...

The laws of physics govern the real sound and psychoacoustics govern how we perceive those sounds. I have noticed I tend to enjoy music more in the evenings compared to mornings. Doesn't mean my setup produces better sound quality later in the day. It means my ears/mind are in a less suitable state for music after the quiet night.

Ditch the formulas. Listen with your own ears. Forget what others told you to think. Trust what you've discovered yourself - you have every right to live your own life. The world will shine with colours no textbook ever dared to mention. Fear is the last cage. Break it .

[Florestan]

In fact, measurements can expose even differences nobody can hear! If the measurement gear is accurate and sensitive enough, it may get different measurements for two fuses. When the measured differences are small enough to not be audible based on science, the perceived differences are indeed caused by placebo/expectation/confirmation bias and typically vanish in proper blind listening tests.

In this very thread has been given the real example of an audiophile magazine which published an article claiming that the placement of small pieces of paper alongside cables (IIRC) noticeably improves the sound quality and invited readers to experiment with their size and position in order to get optimal results. They published the many letters they received confirming the claim and commenting on optimal size and position. None of their authors noticed the publication date of the article: April 1st.