What are you currently reading?

[orbital]

About to finish Orhan Pamuk's latest novel. It is called "The Museum of Innocence", but not yet translated into foreign languages AFAIK.
A very captivating and brilliantly crafted love story.
His critics in his home country accuse him of not using Turkish properly, which is a shame because he has a language of his own particularly when read in Turkish and his deviations from traditional sentence structures is a large part of why his writings work so well IMO.

[Florestan]

About to finish Orhan Pamuk's latest novel. It is called "The Museum of Innocence", but not yet translated into foreign languages AFAIK.
A very captivating and brilliantly crafted love story.

I've read "The New Life" and your description fits it well, although for someone not familiar with Turkish culture and history the simbolism is a bit abstruse. I also have "My Name Is Red", "The White Fortress" and "The Black Book" but haven't read them yet. I consider buying "Snow" as well.

[orbital]

I've read "The New Life" and your description fits it well, although for someone not familiar with Turkish culture and history the simbolism is a bit abstruse.

That's very true. And his international success has somehow puzzled me precisely because of that reason. Turkey's centuries old indecision as to whether to lean to the east or west plays a prominent role in almost all his novels of course, but there are many subtle details in his books which add tremendous enjoyment to reading him which would unfortunately be very difficult if not impossible for a foreign national to get. His best book to date: The Black Book is a good example. The story largely takes place in a bourgeois neighborhood in Istanbul, the very one I grew up in. The familiarity one could have with the details that he gives about the environment -down to the obscure smell of mold in old apartment buildings- adds much to the story. A real life convenience store he mentions in Black Book (as well as in his latest novel) is where I normally get my cigarettes from. The owner is really an angry, rude man 
Of course, such details may pertain to every international author. And these small details may be besides the point anyway.

I also have "My Name Is Red", "The White Fortress" and "The Black Book" but haven't read them yet. I consider buying "Snow" as well.

The New Life is the only novel of his that I could not read till the end. Somehow it eluded me past a few chapters. I should give it another go soon. Perhaps the opening lines were so mesmerizing that they created an unrealistic expectation on my side. The Museum of Innocence opens with a similarly arresting line: "It was the best moment of my life. I had no idea at the time." But this time, the secret of the line is revealed very soon

From those others you have, as I've said above The Black Book is my favorite, but probably the one with most symbolisms. With regards to Snow, it pertains to the headscarves issue for most part and thus it is pretty political. I'd be curious to find out how the translator got over the issue of Ka-Kar-Kars trilogy which is crucial in the novel. The protagonist's name is "Ka", "Kar" means snow in Turkish, and "Kars" is the city where the novel takes place. These three are in constant interaction both figuratively and literally.

If you can find them his first two novels are worth reading as well. Cevdet Bey and His Sons -basically a retake on the themes from Buddenbrooks- and The Silent House -Cevdet Bey's smaller sister- are both treasures too, IMO.

[Florestan]

Thanks for your informed thoughts.

I think he's indeed very good at describing the atmosphere of Istanbul. I've never been there but the vivid and poetical descriptions of neighbourhoods and street corners in "The New Life" made a strong impression on me.

At a more general level, the issue of modernity vs tradition is one that has played a prominent role in the intellectual life of my own country (Romania) starting from the 19th Century onward. It has never been settled and the debates are still going on. Although the specific settings of Turkish culture are, as I said, abstruse --- a thing that's actually good in itself, because it prompted me to do a bit of (very broad) study on the history of Turkey, a subject upon which I now know more than before reading the book --- the ideas and conflicts involved are common in both cases. Much more so since the history of Romania was, until 1878, strongly influenced by the Ottoman Empire.

(As an aside, it strikes me as odd that "kar" means "snow", which implies whiteness, and "kara" means "black". Two almost identical words with such different meanings... )

[orbital]

At a more general level, the issue of modernity vs tradition is one that has played a prominent role in the intellectual life of my own country (Romania) starting from the 19th Century onward. It has never been settled and the debates are still going on. Although the specific settings of Turkish culture are, as I said, abstruse --- a thing that's actually good in itself, because it prompted me to do a bit of (very broad) study on the history of Turkey, a subject upon which I now know more than before reading the book --- the ideas and conflicts involved are common in both cases. Much more so since the history of Romania was, until 1878, strongly influenced by the Ottoman Empire.

I feel The White Castle may be right up your alley. It goes back all the way to the beginnings of the Westernization dreams of the Ottoman Empire. A small magical book.

[Florestan]

I feel The White Castle may be right up your alley. It goes back all the way to the beginnings of the Westernization dreams of the Ottoman Empire. A small magical book.

I'll start reading it asap. Thanks for the recommendation.

[Christo]

I'd be curious to find out how the translator got over the issue of Ka-Kar-Kars trilogy which is crucial in the novel. The protagonist's name is "Ka", "Kar" means snow in Turkish, and "Kars" is the city where the novel takes place. These three are in constant interaction both figuratively and literally.

If you can find them his first two novels are worth reading as well. Cevdet Bey and His Sons -basically a retake on the themes from Buddenbrooks- and The Silent House -Cevdet Bey's smaller sister- are both treasures too, IMO.

Thanks very much for your very informative discussion of Orhan Pamuk's books, Orbital, and Florestan too: I bought a couple of them but only found time to read his book on Istanbul and his novel Kar/Snow, in Dutch translation. Idon't know how the English translation solved the Ka/kar/Kars problem, but I guess there's no way to deal with it in translation. In my Dutch copy, it's all clarified by an introduction and the reader will be well aware of it, so I'm not afraid they will miss this point at all. On the whole, I find little difficulty in following its references, and the same applies to his other books, as far as I've seen them.

A very ineresting writer, imo, and after your discussion of him I feel urged to read the rest of his novels asap!

[M forever]

All this talking about Turkey makes me want a Döner!

[orbital]

Thanks very much for your very informative discussion of Orhan Pamuk's books, Orbital, and Florestan too: I bought a couple of them but only found time to read his book on Istanbul and his novel Kar/Snow, in Dutch translation. Idon't know how the English translation solved the Ka/kar/Kars problem, but I guess there's no way to deal with it in translation. In my Dutch copy, it's all clarified by an introduction and the reader will be well aware of it, so I'm not afraid they will miss this point at all. On the whole, I find little difficulty in following its references, and the same applies to his other books, as far as I've seen them.

A very ineresting writer, imo, and after your discussion of him I feel urged to read the rest of his novels asap!

Hi Christo, do you have access to his earlier novels, the two that I've mentioned to florestan earlier? They don't contain much references, although in the case of Cevdet Bey and His Sons, the story is set against the background of Turkey from its inception until the 60's. It is much easier to follow, but the background details are not as specific. Particularly in The Silent House, the characters are Thracian which might help you understand their inner thoughts, traditions, etc without much difficulty.

All this talking about Turkey makes me want a Döner!

I've heard the Turkish immigrants cook a mean Doner in Germany! But the meat has to include fat from the sheep's tail, I wonder if the local German governments/health services are aware 

[Christo]

Hi Christo, do you have access to his earlier novels, the two that I've mentioned to florestan earlier? They don't contain much references, although in the case of Cevdet Bey and His Sons, the story is set against the background of Turkey from its inception until the 60's. It is much easier to follow, but the background details are not as specific. Particularly in The Silent House, the characters are Thracian which might help you understand their inner thoughts, traditions, etc without much difficulty.

I don't own them, but (probably) all of his novels have been translated into Dutch, as far as I know. I hope to find an opportunity to read them all, in time. The titles you mentioned looking like this, in Dutch:

[M forever]

I've heard the Turkish immigrants cook a mean Doner in Germany! But the meat has to include fat from the sheep's tail, I wonder if the local German governments/health services are aware 

Why sheep's tail fat?

I don't think that would be illegal in Germany, but I don't know either how "authentic" the Döner is you find in Germany. In bigger cities, there are Döner places almost everywhere, and the quality varies enormously, as one might expect. I think the real Döner is more a dish on a platter whereas in those places, you can get the platter, but the sandwich type is by far the most popular. At the best places, where the meat is crispy and juicy, the vegetables fresh and the bread crunchy, a Döner can be a simple, but extremely delicious thing to stuff your face with. In Berlin, it typically looks like this:



Man, that makes me really hungry now. I almost bit in the screen.

[orbital]

Why sheep's tail fat?

I don't really know, but the fat at the back of the slice (the side that is not charred) is clearly visible in the form of colorful glitter, as if it was diesel oil on water  Supposedly that's where the taste comes from.

I used to have them like this:

Just the meat, with sliced tomatoes, gherkins and fries.  no sauce or salad.

[orbital]

I don't own them, but (probably) all of his novels have been translated into Dutch, as far as I know. I hope to find an opportunity to read them all, in time. The titles you mentioned looking like this, in Dutch:

The first one is obviously Cevdet Bey, and the last one is The New Life I think. Cevdet Bey, may be an excellent entry point. It is his longest novel to date, but it does not feel like it at all
The Silent House is close to Cevdet Bey in both its synopsis (Silent House being more concise) and writing style.

[M forever]

Is the sheep's tail fat put in between the pieces of meat when the Döner "bundle" is assembled?

[Wanderer]

Is the sheep's tail fat put in between the pieces of meat when the Döner "bundle" is assembled?

Yes.

[Kullervo]

Is there any writer whose style is similar to Pamuk's (as a point of reference)?

[Florestan]

Is there any writer whose style is similar to Pamuk's (as a point of reference)?

I would say that, in respect to the psychological impact of location on the characters, cities and neighbourhoods being actually characters in their own right, he's similar to the contemporary Spaniards Juan Marse and Carlos Ruiz Zafon, and to Dostoievsky and Faulkner. On the level of the writing style itself, though, I am not aware of any similarities between him and other writers. Maybe Orbital can enlighten us.

[mn dave]

Just started.

[karlhenning]

Just started.

Fabulous! It's time I re-read that one.

[mn dave]

Fabulous! It's time I re-read that one.

Do you have this translation or do you read Russian?