With Classical Recording Dead...

Started by dtwilbanks, May 11, 2007, 09:06:19 PM

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Don

Let's face facts.  At least in the USA, Government will never place any priority on promoting serious classical music; there's no percentage in it.

dtwilbanks

Quote from: Don on May 13, 2007, 09:03:23 AM
Let's face facts.  At least in the USA, Government will never place any priority on promoting serious classical music; there's no percentage in it.

And either will the major labels. Sure, they're releasing some CDs, but they're all lame crossover or the 1,565,534th recording of a Beethoven symphony by one of the few conductors left on their roster.

Harry Collier

Quote from: Don on May 13, 2007, 09:03:23 AM
Let's face facts.  At least in the USA, Government will never place any priority on promoting serious classical music; there's no percentage in it.

I'm all for facing facts. In the USA, taxpayer money goes on arms and munitions. In countries such as Russia, Germany and France, it has often gone in fairly large quantities on serious culture, including music. Take your pick; it's a democratic world; à chacun son goût. What about Argentina, Carlos?

longears

Quote from: MahlerTitan on May 12, 2007, 08:44:44 AM
classical music should be free for everyone, and the classical artists should get paid from the government.
And where do you think the government gets the money? 

Brian

Quote from: Grazioso on May 13, 2007, 04:37:52 AMThose labels are the minors now. It's an amazing time to be a classical fan, thanks to all the real major labels: Naxos, Chandos, BIS, Hyperion, etc.
Bingo! Dead on, sir.

And as far as I am concerned, the artists which Naxos, Hyperion, and BIS can field could outperform the artists DG, Sony, and Universal could field, these days.

Aaand here's the line-up for the former major companies ...
Batting first it's Leif Ove Andsnes, the accomplished leadoff hitter.
He's followed by Midori, surprise substitution there after Perlman was injured in Friday's match.
Next we have Antonio Pappano, who's been a bit uneven of late, but we'll see what he can do tonight.
Yo-Yo Ma is in his customary cleanup spot: they're relying on him even more with rereleases of old classical albums, but thankfully they've brought in a wonderful No. 5 hitter:
Joshua Bell, who's also thriving off old stuff at the moment.
Sixth place gives us Lang Lang, bit of an odd choice but with Maazel in a slump they were left with few options.
Seventh is the supertalented young Esa-Pekka Salonen, trying to prove he deserves a place on Steinbrenner's lineup of Former Major All-Stars.
Batting eighth we have Simon Rattle, who's really been terrible lately, looking to turn things around with a big night at the plate. He's struck out six times in his last ten at-bats.
And finally there's Placido Domingo - aging but still a good designated hitter.

Now let's scan the defense of the Independent Labels. Covering first, second, third, and shortstop are the members of the Maggini Quartet, who've established themselves as a talented young bedrock for the upstart independent team. The backstop is Cho-Liang Lin, just traded from the Majors with Leonard Slatkin, for Barry Wordsworth, Neeme Jarvi, and some prospects. Slatkin's in right field; next to him in center is Julia Fischer, who appears ready as ever. She's part of the platoon outfield, rotating with Peter Wispelwey and new acquisition Yevgeny Sudbin. And down in left field we see Konstantin Scherbakov, the bedrock of this team after Jeno Jando was forced to the bench a few seasons ago.

Now taking the mound for the Independents is their ace pitcher, Stephen Hough; and if he runs into trouble they know they've got a deep bullpen, with lefty Tasmin Little and the long relievers Vernon Handley, Bjarte Engeset, and Antoni Wit. Of course, if the majors can't get a hit in the first eight innings, they're sunk against the exceptional Indie closer, Sharon Bezaly. She can flaut at over 100 miles per hour. Of course, the Former Majors pitching is nothing to be sneezed at either, with Claudio Abbado still able to throw a good curveball and Hilary Hahn as daunting as they come.

Yes, in all it shall be an exciting match. And here come the two managers, Chris Roberts for the majors and Klaus Heymann for the independents. And Heymann has built quite a team after starting with almost nothing. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this sure will be an exciting match to watch as the finest artists of the former majors and the indies duke it out for artistic supremacy.

And now we go to our color commentator...

Steve

Quote from: brianrein on May 13, 2007, 05:27:46 PM
Bingo! Dead on, sir.

And as far as I am concerned, the artists which Naxos, Hyperion, and BIS can field could outperform the artists DG, Sony, and Universal could field, these days.

Aaand here's the line-up for the former major companies ...
Batting first it's Leif Ove Andsnes, the accomplished leadoff hitter.
He's followed by Midori, surprise substitution there after Perlman was injured in Friday's match.
Next we have Antonio Pappano, who's been a bit uneven of late, but we'll see what he can do tonight.
Yo-Yo Ma is in his customary cleanup spot: they're relying on him even more with rereleases of old classical albums, but thankfully they've brought in a wonderful No. 5 hitter:
Joshua Bell, who's also thriving off old stuff at the moment.
Sixth place gives us Lang Lang, bit of an odd choice but with Maazel in a slump they were left with few options.
Seventh is the supertalented young Esa-Pekka Salonen, trying to prove he deserves a place on Steinbrenner's lineup of Former Major All-Stars.
Batting eighth we have Simon Rattle, who's really been terrible lately, looking to turn things around with a big night at the plate. He's struck out six times in his last ten at-bats.
And finally there's Placido Domingo - aging but still a good designated hitter.

Now let's scan the defense of the Independent Labels. Covering first, second, third, and shortstop are the members of the Maggini Quartet, who've established themselves as a talented young bedrock for the upstart independent team. The backstop is Cho-Liang Lin, just traded from the Majors with Leonard Slatkin, for Barry Wordsworth, Neeme Jarvi, and some prospects. Slatkin's in right field; next to him in center is Julia Fischer, who appears ready as ever. She's part of the platoon outfield, rotating with Peter Wispelwey and new acquisition Yevgeny Sudbin. And down in left field we see Konstantin Scherbakov, the bedrock of this team after Jeno Jando was forced to the bench a few seasons ago.

Now taking the mound for the Independents is their ace pitcher, Stephen Hough; and if he runs into trouble they know they've got a deep bullpen, with lefty Tasmin Little and the long relievers Vernon Handley, Bjarte Engeset, and Antoni Wit. Of course, if the majors can't get a hit in the first eight innings, they're sunk against the exceptional Indie closer, Sharon Bezaly. She can flaut at over 100 miles per hour. Of course, the Former Majors pitching is nothing to be sneezed at either, with Claudio Abbado still able to throw a good curveball and Hilary Hahn as daunting as they come.

Yes, in all it shall be an exciting match. And here come the two managers, Chris Roberts for the majors and Klaus Heymann for the independents. And Heymann has built quite a team after starting with almost nothing. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this sure will be an exciting match to watch as the finest artists of the former majors and the indies duke it out for artistic supremacy.

And now we go to our color commentator...


That's an impressive lineup! I really am enjoying my naxos membership. Just heard a wonderful recording of the Elgar Violin Concerto.  ;D

Harry Collier

Quote from: Steve on May 13, 2007, 05:33:33 PM
Just heard a wonderful recording of the Elgar Violin Concerto.  ;D

Dong-Suk Kang? His is certainly among the top six since 1929, in my opinion.

Don

I was just thinking about the so-called impending death of classical music, and it struck me that the relatively obscure composer Myaskovsky has three discs in the catalog having the same program:

Cello Sonata No.1/No. 2 and Cello Concerto.

Lethevich

Quote from: dtwilbanks on May 12, 2007, 01:11:58 PM
I wonder how many CDs these small labels are actually selling per title. Hundreds? Thousands? Lebrecht doesn't seem to think it's many.

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/cdcosts.asp

"Proportionally speaking, very few records reach 10,000. Some don't even reach 2,000. These are world sales figures, not just for the United Kingdom. What is more, at present the average sales per title are falling because of the enormous quantities of new issues.

Individual sales figures for the vast number of CDs on the market are not generally available. But as an example, the only recording ever made of Rutland Boughton's Third Symphony, issued by Hyperion, has sold 6036 copies throughout the world in about nine years."


Hyperion seems fine with not having to sell tens of thousands - that they can keep themselves afloat with that buisness model proves that recording new repertoire will never ever die. Plus Lebrecht seems to have some sort of fantasy about a magical world where a few large labels will give us everything we want, maybe he's lazy. It doesn't matter that labels such as Hyperion sells small amounts, because there are dozens of these notable small labels all remaining afloat, some of them while releasing mind-bogglingly obscure repertoire (eg Altarus).
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Bulldog

Quote from: Two-Tone on December 14, 2008, 07:52:31 PM
What a terrible picture you draw of the current classical scene: second-tier labels peddling second-fiddle musicians!
This is worst than agony: it's the classical music scene crumbling into mediocrity.


Does anyone agree with Two-Tone?

Brian

Bulldog: I don't.  ;D

Firstly, Two-Tone, thank you for bringing me face to face with an opinion I wrote 18 months ago! Interesting to see how my views have changed, and haven't. Here is one opinion which I still retain: anybody who can sweepingly describe the output of PentaTone, BIS, Hyperion and harmonia mundi as "second-tier" simply isn't listening!

Now, as far as the facts go:
Quote from: Two-Tone on December 14, 2008, 07:52:31 PM
Such dullness, these musicians. No wonder concert halls aren't filling up and CD's aren't selling...
THEY ARE.

Quoteclassical (traditional and crossover) sales rose more than 22 percent between 2005 and 2006. This is quite surprising considering that overall sales declined and that there were fewer retail outlets in which classical CDs are typically sold. In part the improvement is due to a significant gain of digital downloads which in 2006 were almost 109 percent greater than in 2005. And while there were fewer bricks and mortar retailers from which to buy CDs, part of the slack was taken up by a big increase of classical music sales at Amazon.com, which recently launched a classical "Blowout" section at reduced prices for certain items.
QuoteYou thought the only new articles about CDs you'd be reading would be about further declines in sales? Well, it turns out that ArkivMusic, the country's leading website for new and formerly out-of-print classical recordings, posted, um, record sales last year. Now billing itself as "The Source for Classical Music™," the online retailer posted a record 30% growth in 2007 sales over 2006, including more than $1 million in sales in December alone. [Stereophile]

And from the New York Times:
Quotefor all the hand-wringing, there is immensely more classical music on offer now, both in concerts and on recordings than there was in what nostalgists think of as the golden era of classics in America.

In the record business, for example, it can be depressing to compare the purely classical output of the major labels now with what the industry cranked out from 1950 to 1975. But focusing on the majors is beside the point: the real action has moved to dozens of adventurous smaller companies, ranging from musician-run labels like Bridge, Oxingale and Cantaloupe to ambitious mass marketers like the midprice, repertory-spanning Naxos.

Similarly, someone shopping anywhere but in huge chains like Tower or Virgin might conclude that classical discs are no longer sold. In reality the business model has changed. Internet deep-catalog shops like arkivmusic.com offer virtually any CD in print, something no physical store can do today. The Internet has become a primary resource for classical music: the music itself as well as information about it.

On Apple's iTunes, which sold a billion tracks in its first three years, classical music reportedly accounts for 12 percent of sales, four times its share of the CD market. Both Sony-BMG and Universal say that as their download sales have increased, CD sales have remained steady, suggesting that downloaders are a new market, not simply the same consumers switching formats.

In their first six weeks on iTunes, the New York Philharmonic's download-only Mozart concert sold 2,000 complete copies and about 1,000 individual tracks, and the Los Angeles Philharmonic's two Minimalist concerts, combined, sold 900 copies and about 400 individual tracks. Those numbers, though small by pop standards, exceed what might be expected from sales of orchestral music on standard CD's.

Other orchestras are catching on: the Milwaukee Symphony and Philharmonia Baroque in San Francisco offer downloads on their own Web sites. And the major labels are planning to sell downloads of archival recordings that will not be reissued on CD.

In concert halls, season subscriptions have plummeted in favor of last-minute ticket sales. That doesn't mean the business is tanking, however, just that audiences have shifted their habits. As two-income families have grown busier, potential ticket buyers are less inclined to commit to performances months in advance (or as ticket prices climb, to accept predetermined concert packages). But as much as orchestras and concert presenters would prefer to sell their tickets before the season starts, the seats are hardly empty.

Neither are the stages. The American Symphony Orchestra League puts the number of orchestras in the United States at 1,800 (350 of them professional). The 1,800 ensembles give about 36,000 concerts a year, 30 percent more than in 1994. And in the most recent season for which the league has published figures, 2003-4, orchestras reported an 8 percent increase in operating revenues against a 7 percent increase in expenses, with deficits dropping to 1.1 percent from 2.7 percent of their annual budgets from the previous season.

Meanwhile corners of the field generally ignored in discussions of classical music's mortality — most notably, early music and new music — are true growth industries. When Lincoln Center presented a 10-concert celebration of the composer Osvaldo Golijov this season, there wasn't a spare ticket to be found. The Miller Theater's Gyorgy Ligeti series packed them in as well. And though the Los Angeles Philharmonic's Minimalist Jukebox festival sold slightly fewer tickets than its regular programming, it drew a younger crowd: 25 percent of the audience was said to be under 45 (compared with 15 percent normally), and 10 percent was 25 to 34 (compared with 2 percent).

Kullervo

Two-Tone considers Sibelius and Shostakovich second-tier, so it's reasonable to say that his judgment is shaky, at best. ;D

Bulldog

Quote from: Two-Tone on December 14, 2008, 08:16:04 PM

So, you see, Brian, the facts you bring up only corroborate those of us who feel the classical music world is in ill-health...  ::)



What are you planning to do to save it?

The new erato

Quote from: Two-Tone on December 14, 2008, 08:37:34 PM
While you're at it, why not ask me what I plan to do to restore the Roman Empire?  ::)
Bring intrigue, bickering, poisoning and backstabbing back in fashion?

Grazioso

#54
Quote from: Two-Tone on December 14, 2008, 08:16:04 PM
So, you see, Brian, the facts you bring up only corroborate those of us who feel the classical music world is in ill-health...  ::)

Here's one classical music lover's perspective. I've been listening since the early 90's, and my primary means of exploring/enjoying the music has been the CD. Attending live concerts is extremely rare, and only very occasionally will I listen to classical radio or watch a performance on PBS. I never download music, having no interest in mp3's and the like.

From that perspective, the classical music world is thriving. Thanks to the Internet and the explosion of labels outside the old majors (Decca, DG, EMI, etc.), the array of music I have access to has exploded out of all proportion. Further, much of it is interesting and extremely well recorded and well performed.

When I first started listening, it was hard to get hold of the discs I wanted, and most of what was readily available was the same old core repertoire--in fact, usually the same old recordings repackaged for the umpteenth time. Now I not only have easy access to classic recordings of, say, Beethoven or Brahms, by the big-name artists of the past, but I also have easy access to a vast body of music outside those big names. You might dubiously call such off-the-beaten-path pieces and unfamiliar artists "second tier", but I can say that my musical life is far richer now, when I can readily hear multiple recordings of top-tier but traditionally ignored works by composers like Madetoja, Pettersson, Novak, Bax, etc. And on top of that, the old majors now release many of their classic recordings at comically low prices. Then there's Brilliant Classics, making excellent recordings available at even lower prices. And it's far easier to get hold of the complete works of the big-name composers: Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, etc.

Let's see, compared to when I started listening to classical music, I can hear more good music more easily for less money. Yes, I'm happy :)
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Brian

#55
Quote from: Two-Tone on December 14, 2008, 08:37:34 PM
While you're at it, why not ask me what I plan to do to restore the Roman Empire?  ::)
My, aren't we an optimist. Sounds like you almost want classical music to cave in to barbarians and destroy itself with bulimic orgies, leaving only crumbled ruins of its former self.  ::)

By the way, Grazioso, I appreciated your thoughtful contribution, even if my snarky one-liner doesn't show it. :)

Superhorn

    Two  Tone's  lament  about   the  supposed  lack  of  great  musicians  today  with"force  of  personality"  is  simply  ludicrous.
   No  really  great  musicians  today ?  Come  on.
We  have  Barenboim,  Levine,  Abbado, Rattle, Gergiev, Muti, Nagano, Harnoncourt, Maazel, Previn, Thomas,Slatkin, Colin Davis, Askenazy, Boulez,Blomstedt, Chailly, Dutoit, Eschenbach, Neeme Jarvi,  Mackerras,
Masur, Thielemann, Salonen, among conductors,  Argerich, Thibaudet, Perlman,
Kremer, Yo Yo Ma, Peter Serkin, Aimard,  and  so  many  other  great  instrumentalists  etc,  magnificent  orchestras  in  Berlin, Vienna, London,Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia,  New York, Munich, Dresden,Leipzig, Prague, St.Petersburg ,Amsterdam  and  elsewhere  which  DON"T  SOUND  ALIKE  AT  ALL,  and  so  many  great  singers. And  this  is  just  the  tip  of  the  iceberg,  not  to  mention  the  many  phenomenally  gifted  youngsters  emerging  today.  Like  their  interpretations  or  not,  today's  leading  musicians  are  anything  but  carbon-copies  of  each  other.
   Don't  tell  me  that   the  classical  music  world  is  slipping  into mediocrity,  and that  it's not  worth  going  to  performances  any  more.
  I'm  fed  up  with  people  who  idealize  the  past  of  classical  music  so  much  that  they  can't  appreciate  today's many  great  musicians.
   And  whatever  the  problems  of  the  classical  recording  industry,  there  is  greater  diversity  of  repertoire  than  ever  before  in the  history  of  recorded  sound.  We're  not  limited  to  the  same  old  warhorses  by  Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, etc.  We  can  hear  music by  interesting  composers  such  as  Balakirev,  Berwald, Brian, Bliss,  Bax, Chavez, Dohnanyi, Enescu, Fibich, Glazunov,  Janacek, Kallinikov, Koechlin,  Kancheli,  Leifs, Myaskovsky, Medtner, Nielsen, Pfitzner,  Roussel,  Szymanowski,Stenhammar, Schmidt,Screker,Schulhoff,Martinu, Taneyev,  Zemlinsky,  and  so  many  others.  Many  of  us  classical  music  fans  just  don't  realize  how  lucky  we  are.

??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)
   

Kullervo

Strange, I feel a sudden urge to listen to Shostakovich.


Kullervo

Quote from: Two-Tone on December 18, 2008, 05:30:40 AM
Please do: so I can keep Stravinsky and Mahler all to myself. LOL.

The Sony Stravinsky box is sitting on my desk, right next to the DSCH quartets. :)