Bach Better Than Handel

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Not a big Handel fan here. Okay, so I've mostly heard the "popular" pieces which don't do squat for me--not really.

Poor Handel deserves more consideration than that. If all you know are his "popular" pieces you really don't know Handel.

His greatest works are a serious challenge to Bach's kingship. And by greatest works I mean his stage works.

Now go...

[The new erato]

Poor Handel deserves more consideration than that. If all you know are his "popular" pieces you really don't know Handel.

His greatest works are a serious challenge to Bach's kingship. And by greatest works I mean his stage works.

Now go...

Hallelujah brother! My sentiments exactly. And two very different composers, like comparing Messiaen to Stravinsky.

[jlaurson]

Handel has always been among the top three to four most favorite composers to me.  That explains why there are not many of his recorded oratorios I do not own apart from almost 20 versions of Messiah ...

For those among us, who do like the ranking game:

Stegosaurus Is My Second-Favorite Dinosaur

By Sherman C. Koltuck
February 7, 2007 | Issue 43•06


The bones in its face just make it look so cool. It's huge, its knees are awesome, and of course, it has tail spikes. I would be totally remiss if I didn't mention the sweet tail spikes.

But it's not my favorite. As anyone who's read this column knows, T-Rex is obviously my No. 1 dinosaur—that goes without saying. A common choice? Perhaps. But I defy anyone to legitimately deny the raw power of that perfect killing machine. And please, I don't want to hear anything about T-Rex being a scavenger, because I'll go to the mat on that.

However, I'm not talking about T-Rex today. I'm here to give Stegosaurus its proper due. This gentle, awesome giant is easily lost in the mainstream shuffle of Apatosaurus—No. 33—and Pachycephalosaurus—No. 12—and I don't condemn anyone who, albeit wrongly, puts Stegosaurus lower on his list. Plus, other pundits out there will pick the safe route, going on all day about Allosaurus and its thumb spikes—admittedly really cool—or Velociraptor and its claws or whatever. It's just that I'm not going to pad my favorites catalogue with a bunch of obvious carnivores.

Stegosaurus is definitely, solidly, my No. 2 favorite dinosaur of all time. No. 2, mind you, out of all dinosaurs. Ever. Even Ankylosaurus, though I imagine some of the so-called experts out there will find that pretty hard to believe.

Ever since watching Land of the Lost at my fourth-favorite age of five—the original 1974 series, that is, which is the 17th-best television show of all time, easily—Stegosaurus has had a special place in my heart. Granted, that show introduced me to many wonderful dinosaurs: Pterodactyl was No. 2 for a time, Brontosaurus was in that slot for months, and even those reptoid midgets, the Sleestacks, with their big black eyes and pointy heads were ranked second for six episodes until they were disqualified due to a technicality. But Stegosaurus has an undeniable staying power—and awesome tail spikes, as I said—and eventually edged them all out.

Of course, it could never edge out T-Rex. Just look at its teeth! But I've already devoted my third- and fifth-favorite columns I've written about dinosaurs to Tyrannosaurus, so, again, there's no need to get into that. Nor will I dwell on dinosaurs three through 10, considering they're all different types of pterosaurs, and, for now at least, I don't have the space to break down the subtleties.

Anyway, Stegosaurus. Why No. 2, you ask? The obvious answer for this, of course, are the thermoregulatory plates on its back, but that's my distant third-favorite reason as to why Stegosaurus is my second-favorite dinosaur. No, my No. 1 reason is the "second brain"—the coolest brain, by far, in the Stegosaurus—near the base of its tail used for controlling reflexes in the rear part of its body. Reasons two and four are a little complicated and both tail-spike-related, so I'll leave those for another time.

Reason No. 5 for loving Stegosaurus is because it could regularly and easily knock down trees. Huge trees. Which is awesome.

In many ways—well, eight ways, actually—Stegosaurus embodies a lot of things on my various lists that are pretty great but don't quite make the top. For example, the Clash's triple album, Sandinista—the second disc of which is the third-best disc—the 31st-best record of all time, between The Faces' Long Player and Neil Diamond's Jonathan Livingston Seagull soundtrack. To me, Stegosaurus carries on its back, along with those wicked, massive plates, the weight of all the silver-medal winners in my life, including my second-favorite list and my favorite salty snack foods, which are the third-best variety of snack foods.

It may seem a little excessive to a few self-styled experts (who are high on my blacklist—well, my blacklist for self-styled experts) to place so much secondary importance on an extinct herbivore. My answer to that is: No, it's not. However, I'm not so petty as to allow ranking to consume my entire existence. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ranking things, like Stegosaurus, comes in second, right behind drawing, and just ahead of my mom, who's currently at a solid No. 3.

She's up from No. 5 after a stellar showing this past Christmas.

[Dr. Dread]

Poor Handel deserves more consideration than that. If all you know are his "popular" pieces you really don't know Handel.

His greatest works are a serious challenge to Bach's kingship. And by greatest works I mean his stage works.

Now go...

I was hoping someone would say, his works for keyboard or solo violin. 

[Wendell_E]

Handel was definitely the better opera composer. 

[Bulldog]

His greatest works are a serious challenge to Bach's kingship. And by greatest works I mean his stage works.

I agree that Handel's greatest works are for the stage, but even those works do not challenge Bach's supremacy (although Handel is in my top ten composers list).

[Sorin Eushayson]

I'm gonna stick up for Herr Händel here.  Yes, he was an outstanding dramatic composer, but his chamber and orchestral works are phenomenal as well.  It should also be noted that he wrote the most popular piece of music of all time.

[DavidRoss]

I'm gonna stick up for Herr Händel here.  Yes, he was an outstanding dramatic composer, but his chamber and orchestral works are phenomenal as well.  It should also be noted that he wrote the most popular piece of music of all time.

He wrote Stairway to Heaven?

[Dr. Dread]

He wrote Stairway to Heaven?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I was hoping someone would say, his works for keyboard or solo violin. 

No such luck.

[Coopmv]

Poor Handel deserves more consideration than that. If all you know are his "popular" pieces you really don't know Handel.

His greatest works are a serious challenge to Bach's kingship. And by greatest works I mean his stage works.

Now go...

Some of Handel's oratorios rank as some of the best choral/vocal works ever composed.  His 12 Concerti Grossi Op. 6 also give Bach's violin concertos/sonatas a run for the money IMO.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I agree that Handel's greatest works are for the stage, but even those works do not challenge Bach's supremacy...

Well, it really doesn't matter to me if Handel "challenges" Bach's supremacy. The fact that Handel exists is enough for me.

But since this thread is designed to draw battle lines: lemme just say your statement is incorrect.

[Dr. Dread]

Well, it really doesn't matter to me if Handel "challenges" Bach's supremacy. The fact that Handel exists is enough for me.

But since this thread is designed to draw battle lines: lemme just say your statement is incorrect.

No battle lines. I was just seeing if anyone had some ideas on what to listen for in Handel. Music for the stage was mentioned, but my listening tends to lean in the opposite direction (smaller, more intimate forces). Maybe that's my problem here. Oh well.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Some of Handel's oratorios rank as some of the best choral/vocal works ever composed.  His 12 Concerti Grossi Op. 6 also give Bach's violin concertos/sonatas a run for the money IMO.

Let me just answer that with erato's wise words:

Hallelujah brother! My sentiments exactly. And two very different composers, like comparing Messiaen to Stravinsky.

[Bogey]

Love the Handel I have.  I believe that his chamber music is some of my favorite listening (thank you Harry).  However,:



....and it's Secretariat Bach coming down the stretch.....

[Sorin Eushayson]

Stairway to Heaven

Never heard of it... 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

No battle lines. I was just seeing if anyone had some ideas on what to listen for in Handel. Music for the stage was mentioned, but my listening tends to lean in the opposite direction (smaller, more intimate forces). Maybe that's my problem here. Oh well.

The good news is despite their size Handel's stage works are full of intimate stretches. If that helps. No Handel stage work subsists on high drama alone. I for one am drawn to the intimacy most.

[Dr. Dread]

The good news is despite their size Handel's stage works are full of intimate stretches. If that helps. No Handel stage work subsists on high drama alone. I for one am drawn to the intimacy most.

Okay, my friend. Lay ONE recording on me.

[Coopmv]

Okay, my friend. Lay ONE recording on me.

This is an excellent recording, something that can be enjoyed during some quiet and perhaps even intimate moments.  I have owned this recording for at least 15 years and have always enjoyed it.  While there are other ensembles that have recorded this work, English Concert and Trevor Pinnock are still the best ...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Okay, my friend. Lay ONE recording on me.

One of my favorite Handel operas:





The work impresses most with its depth, color, and invention, not its fireworks.