Digital Magazines (Books) - Do We Want This?

[Benji]

e-ink is no different than paper. Reading on the computer screen or ipods for extended periods of time is indeed not the best idea, but these devices are something else completely. I would say even easier on the eyes than books that are printed on white paper.


Quote from: Florestan on Today at 02:20:48 AMI am sure that can be digitized as well 

Sounds like they've got it all worked out!

Providing we are afforded the luxury of uninterrupted technological development (i.e. we aren't reduced to the stone age by war/plague etc any time soon) I'm sure the tide is in favour of continued digitisisation (did I make that up, doesn't sound right?). I suppose we can eventually look forward to having music and words beamed digitally and directly into our conciousness and we will lose the need for eyes and ears.

I for one, will be writing down anything I think is important. If the instructions to my water purifier and emergency generator come in digital format you can bet I'll be scribbling then down on paper when the bombs star falling. And sorry I can't let you in my bomb shelter, the digital lock broke you see.  0:)

[orbital]

Sounds like they've got it all worked out!

Providing we are afforded the luxury of uninterrupted technological development (i.e. we aren't reduced to the stone age by war/plague etc any time soon) I'm sure the tide is in favour of continued digitisisation (did I make that up, doesn't sound right?). I suppose we can eventually look forward to having music and words beamed digitally and directly into our conciousness and we will lose the need for eyes and ears.

This is something else. The experience factor may not be that easy to duplicate. The thing is I am getting the same experience from reading on Sony as you are from a physical book. My eyes are following letters line after line, and if it is a book I am enjoying I can't wait to turn the page (you flip the page with your finger... well I do the same too, on the PRS 700  ).

The thing is there is no convenient place to stop for technology. It is useless, and ultimately pointless to try to stand against it as long as it gives you the same experience, just because it is 'digital'. I have a feeling that people are basically arguing about values more than the medium. The medium does nothing to hurt you. It does not hurt your eyes, it does not hurt your wallet, and best of all it creates a way for more and more authors to publish their books more easily.

Same thing with music. Easier to manage, easier to acquire and an easier way for newcomers to join the pool of musicians.
I am curious as to why people are not taking the same negative stance on digital music. Why is that acceptable while books are not? Many people had to feel the vinyl in their hands, take the needle, place it on the record then press play. Not anymore. It is surely not missed en masse.

I for one, will be writing down anything I think is important. If the instructions to my water purifier and emergency generator come in digital format you can bet I'll be scribbling then down on paper when the bombs star falling. And sorry I can't let you in my bomb shelter, the digital lock broke you see.  0:)

I am not a digital crazy person  I listen to classical music 
But remember, when the time comes the first ones to be aware of the bombs about to fall may be those who have access to online news services 

[Benji]

This is something else. The experience factor may not be that easy to duplicate. The thing is I am getting the same experience from reading on Sony as you are from a physical book. My eyes are following letters line after line, and if it is a book I am enjoying I can't wait to turn the page (you flip the page with your finger... well I do the same too, on the PRS 700  ).

The thing is there is no convenient place to stop for technology. It is useless, and ultimately pointless to try to stand against it as long as it gives you the same experience, just because it is 'digital'. I have a feeling that people are basically arguing about values more than the medium. The medium does nothing to hurt you. It does not hurt your eyes, it does not hurt your wallet, and best of all it creates a way for more and more authors to publish their books more easily.

Same thing with music. Easier to manage, easier to acquire and an easier way for newcomers to join the pool of musicians.
I am curious as to why people are not taking the same negative stance on digital music. Why is that acceptable while books are not? Many people had to feel the vinyl in their hands, take the needle, place it on the record then press play. Not anymore. It is surely not missed en masse.

I'm sure you're right. It will be the experience I miss most. Going in to a book seller, looking at the funky covers, reading the back, sitting in a comfy chair and reading a few pages, buying it and feeling smug that I bought a book, putting it in its place according to its size on my bookshelf (ok so digital will help suppress the OCD in me), the joy of someone seeing a book on my shelf that takes their interest and which I can lend to them and then discuss. And the smell of course. It may be silly, but it is those stupid little things that I would miss.

I take your point about there being less resistance to digital music, but there is much less weight of history behind recorded music, and even then as much as I use a service such as Napster, if there was a physical shop that had the same range and choice there would be no contest.

So, I imagine that deep down most people gripes with our precious information going digital is that we lose those tactile sensations that connect us somehow to the medium, and also the issue of having something tangible to show for our money.

And still, I feel that digital will inevitably win as the technologies become more accepted amongst the future generations. I think that's a shame, but you can't fight progress, right?!

I am not a digital crazy person  I listen to classical music 
But remember, when the time comes the first ones to be aware of the bombs about to fall may be those who have access to online news services 

Touché. Plus you can duck and cover under your desk, whilst my book and I will be toast sitting out in the open   Maybe I should re-think...

[orbital]

I think that's a shame, but you can't fight progress, right?!

No  you can't

You can... for a while, but you know all along that it is a losing battle. But again, I am of the opinion that progress is inherently good.

[Dr. Dread]

Is it still called "progress"? 

[Kullervo]

I think I'm going to build a giant secret labyrinth of all the books that everyone has thrown away. If the Big One comes, civilization will live on because of me. 

[Benji]

I think I'm going to build a giant secret labyrinth of all the books that everyone has thrown away.

You mean the ones Oprah Winfrey recommends?  0:)

[Dr. Dread]

I think I'm going to build a giant secret labyrinth of all the books that everyone has thrown away. If the Big One comes, civilization will live on because of me. 

Gee, that sounds familiar. 

[Kullervo]

You mean the ones Oprah Winfrey recommends?  0:)

Hey, some of them happen to be good. It's not the writers' fault their publishers decided to plaster her name all over the covers.

Gee, that sounds familiar. 

Yes, you are onto something my young novitiate. 

[orbital]

Is it still called "progress"? 

Let's compare

Paper Books...................EBooks
Uses Paper from trees......Uses electrodes that causes virtually no harm to nature
Takes Storage Space.......Takes virtually no space
More Expensive...............Cheaper (often free legally)
Costs $$$ to publish........Costs nothing to publish
Easy on the eyes...........Easy on the eyes (plus comes in multiple text sizes)
Gets crumpled
  when bookmarked.........As many deletable bookmarks as you want
Smells  ......................Doesn't currently offer smell option

[ChamberNut]

Is it still called "progress"? 

Only if it comes with a plug-in for Wii.  I need my exercise.

[Dr. Dread]

Let's compare

Paper Books...................EBooks
Uses Paper from trees......Uses electrodes that causes virtually no harm to nature
Takes Storage Space.......Takes virtually no space
More Expensive...............Cheaper (often free legally)
Costs $$$ to publish........Costs nothing to publish
Easy on the eyes...........Easy on the eyes (plus comes in multiple text sizes)
Gets crumpled
  when bookmarked.........As many deletable bookmarks as you want
Smells  ......................Doesn't currently offer smell option

Yet I am not convinced.  0:)

[ChamberNut]

My wife and I used to have cell phones.  We don't anymore, for the last two years.  Don't miss them at all.

So, go ahead with your "must have" latest technologies.  Talk on your cell while driving, as you develop brain tumours the size of blackberries. 

[Szykneij]

I think I'm going to build a giant secret labyrinth of all the books that everyone has thrown away. If the Big One comes, civilization will live on because of me. 

" The best laid plans of mice and men and Corey Bemis, the small man in the glasses who wanted nothing but time. Corey Bemis, now just a part of a smashed landscape, just a piece of the rubble, just a fragment of what man has deeded to himself. Mr. Corey Bemis in the Twilight Zone. "

[SonicMan46]

Let's compare

Paper Books...................EBooks.....................

Smells  ......................Doesn't currently offer smell option

Orbital - well, I agree that these 'digital readers' are likely goin' to be a part of our 'near' future - I'm already reviewing the options (will not be a quick purchase, I still need to get a HDTV for my den!  ).

Today in the office, I look at a third issue of PC Magazine (the origin of this thread) - on a widescreen monitor & in color, the experience is not bad at all; the pages flip easily, zooming is done quickly if needed, and the color maintains the look of the magazine; so, one of my requirements if I'm to use such a 'digitial reader' for a number of options (i.e. books, magazines, PDF files, etc.), is that I would definitely want color and a larger viewing area than seems to be offered by the current producers; but of course all of this will come w/ time and likely quickly, and at a much reduced price - I can wait a while!

Now, your comparison above concerning 'smell' is something that I've loved about books since childhood - and despite Dave's warning - I have smelled a lot of library books in the past (mostly in my younger years) and am still alive! 

There was an interest in the concept of Smell-O-Vision in the past, and I remember visiting a museum in Baltimore (next to the Aquarium) which I'm not sure is still open, but there was a theater that combined all of the human senses, including injecting various aromas into the atmosphere as one viewed & listened to the visual production (can't even remember what was showing & the smells were rather 'sickening' IIRC) - but I would miss the 'smell' of a book.   

[Kullervo]

" The best laid plans of mice and men and Corey Bemis, the small man in the glasses who wanted nothing but time. Corey Bemis, now just a part of a smashed landscape, just a piece of the rubble, just a fragment of what man has deeded to himself. Mr. Corey Bemis in the Twilight Zone. "

Thankfully I have 20/20 vision.

[orbital]

Yet I am not convinced.  0:)

But the environment Dave, the environment! 

My wife and I used to have cell phones.  We don't anymore, for the last two years.  Don't miss them at all.

I don't like cell phones myself. I don't want to be reachable all the time 
But I do use cordless touch key phones rather than the turn dial ones, because they are more convenient 

Orbital -
Now, your comparison above concerning 'smell' is something that I've loved about books since childhood - and despite Dave's warning - I have smelled a lot of library books in the past (mostly in my younger years) and am still alive! 

I think Benji was right in saying that printed books have a much longer cultural history, thus the more intense resistance against a new format.
With both books and music what interests me is the material. I don't care about the packaging, the liner notes, the CD covers, etc. Therefore the switch was very easy for me

Most people have this peculiar thing about books. They have a hard time lending them or getting rid of them. I don't form such attachments to either books or CDs. I gave away/sold more than 700 books (and about that many CDs) when I was moving and I don't miss them at all. Particularly with books once you are done reading them chances for returning back to them are very slim. With e-books you can return to whichever book you want instantly.

If you will soon be in the market for an e-book reader, there is this one coming out that will have dual screens so it will resemble paper books even more. I think it is made by i-river.

[Florestan]

Orbital

I am not against the digital books technology as such. If some people, like you, feel happy and at ease with it, fine, let them have their way.

I just don't want it. I'm with Benji, Corey, Bogey, Dave and others all the way: going to a bookshop and spending a whole hour there even if eventually I don't buy anything; my library, where each book is an extension of my own self and added something valuable to my mind, feelings and life, and where I know exactly where to find this or that book that I've already read two or three times; these are experiences that are part and parcel of my personality and giving them away for the sake of a "progress" that I don't believe in or of a technological utopia that I abhor (the utopia, that is, not the technology itself) would be like giving away part of my "life, liberty and property".

As for ecological concerns, the recycled paper has been around for many years. And anyway, the primary concern should be the myriad newspapers that are being printed daily around the world and that are committed only to vulgarity, stupidity, and dumbing down people, not a few thousand pieces of "Crime and Punishment" being printed once in a decade, if at all.

So, use happily your Sony Reader --- but let me happily read my books as well.

I can't think of a future where everything has gone digital but we are still carrying paper books. It just doesn't make sense 

What makes sense --- a lot of sense --- is letting each people decide what they want and what they don't want. The mere fact that something can be done --- e.g., the digitalization of all books and the downright prohibition of all traditional books, using ecological or economical rationales --- doesn't mean it has to be done.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I like books. I like CDs and records.

The idea of carrying around my whole library or CD collection in some small hand-held device strikes me as faintly repulsive. It took me years to acquire all those units, and I want to see them and feel them. They are special.

I can see some use for portable digital media. Namely, they would be useful for things that I didn't want to keep around permanently, like topical books and pop songs. But I would never want to have War and Peace or the Beethoven quartets in such an ephemeral form.

Another plus: if you're not a big decorator, books and CDs provide some automatic decoration.

[Kullervo]

I just don't want it. I'm with Benji, Corey, Bogey, Dave and others all the way: going to a bookshop and spending a whole hour there even if eventually I don't buy anything; my library, where each book is an extension of my own self and added something valuable to my mind, feelings and life, and where I know exactly where to find this or that book that I've already read two or three times; these are experiences that are part and parcel of my personality and giving them away for the sake of a "progress" that I don't believe in or of a technological utopia that I abhor (the utopia, that is, not the technology itself) would be like giving away part of my "life, liberty and property".

Very well said.

I feel that physical books, especially older books, have a "presence" that mere words lack. There is just something pleasing about looking at, picking up and cracking open my copy of a la recherche de temps perdu (Remembrance of Things Past in my edition) from the 1930s. It has a history.