Bach Better Than Handel

[Elgarian]

is this even a legitimate question?

It's very unlikely that MN Dave would ask an illegitimate question. We can trust him on this.

[op.110]

It's very unlikely that MN Dave would ask an illegitimate question. We can trust him on this.

Fair enough - I mean no disrespect.

However, I do agree with jochanaan's comment... "This is foolishness"

[FideLeo]

In many ways, GFH was the more progressive composer--not necessarily better, but more forward-looking.

I agree.

Handel did influence Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and so later composers, probably in more ways than we generally
realise.   I don't think it is fair to say that western music history would have been the same without Handel's
contribution.

[The new erato]

I agree as well; Bach great virue was in summing up and synthetizing everything that had been done before, he did it on an unprecedented and massive scale; but he was not the most forward looking of composers. That role fell to some of his sons.

[Rod Corkin]

I agree as well; Bach great virue was in summing up and synthetizing everything that had been done before, he did it on an unprecedented and massive scale; but he was not the most forward looking of composers. That role fell to some of his sons.

I'd say Handel was the more successful synthesis of the best features of the prevailing styles across Europe - French, English, Italian, German, and developed mastery of a much wider scope of music. Whatever the influences Bach always sounds like he is stuck in the back room of a German Church.

[71 dB]

Whatever the influences Bach always sounds like he is stuck in the back room of a German Church.

Really? Are you familiar with Coffee Cantata, BWV 211?  0:)

[Rod Corkin]

Really? Are you familiar with Coffee Cantata, BWV 211?  0:)

Is that the best you can come up with? I rest my case your Honour.

[71 dB]

Is that the best you can come up with? I rest my case your Honour.

I suppose it's the best I can come up with but it still shows that Bach doesn't always sound like he was stuck in the back room of a German Church. So, it's actually me who rests the case! 

Anyway, Bach's music is serious/religious while Handel's music is fun/secular. They were still both amazing.

[Rod Corkin]

I suppose it's the best I can come up with but it still shows that Bach doesn't always sound like he was stuck in the back room of a German Church. So, it's actually me who rests the case!  

Well that's one way of looking at it.

Anyway, Bach's music is serious/religious while Handel's music is fun/secular. They were still both amazing.

So all of Handel's religious oratorios and cantatas, hymns, anthems, te deums etc etc amount to nothing?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

However, I do agree with jochanaan's comment... "This is foolishness"

Jochanaan - if you'd bother to read his post - is hailing Handel as the more progressive composer, not Bach.

[Bulldog]

Whatever the influences Bach always sounds like he is stuck in the back room of a German Church.

No, you're the one in the back room, with your head in the toilet bowl.

[71 dB]

So all of Handel's religious oratorios and cantatas, hymns, anthems, te deums etc etc amount to nothing?

When did I suggest that?  

[Josquin des Prez]

So all of Handel's religious oratorios and cantatas, hymns, anthems, te deums etc etc amount to nothing?

Indeed they do not. Many of those works are in pure Italianate style, that is, they are as irreligious as they come. This doesn't necessarily mean Handel was not a religious person, it's only that his music sought to express the human, not the transcendental. This does not make him a lesser artist, mind you. The problem with Handel is that he was far more inconsistent then Bach, not that he was a lesser genius.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

No, you're the one in the back room, with your head in the toilet bowl.

[Henk]

I agree to what's been said in favour of Handel and I'm really enjoying his opera's. Real masterpieces, all of them! Bach sounds religious and, though he's music is great, that's why I play Bach less. I have to put effort not to be annoyed by his religious sound. Not all music that sounds religious do that with me (Palestrina, Messiaen).

Henk

[71 dB]

Handel's music sought to express the human, not the transcendental. This does not make him a lesser artist, mind you.

Thanks for stating pretty much what I think too.   

The problem with Handel is that he was far more inconsistent then Bach, not that he was a lesser genius.

How exactly is inconsistency a problem? Isn't it a natural aspect of creative processes that sometimes you get it right and sometimes you don't? Total consistency would mean banality. Even Bach wasn't consistent: some of his works show much greater genius (e.g. BWV 232) than some others (e.g. BWV 1013).

[karlhenning]

Whatever the influences Bach always sounds like he is stuck in the back room of a German Church.

No, you're the one in the back room, with your head in the toilet bowl.

Quoted for truth.

Handel's music sought to express the human, not the transcendental.

A fatuously erroneous "distinction" between Bach and Handel.  But given the capacity of the abovementioned bowl, two heads may be better than one.

[Josquin des Prez]

Total consistency would mean banality.

This assertion makes no sense, but no matter. What makes Handel's inconsistency problematic is that it occurs within a given work and not only in between them. Not everything Bach wrote is a supreme masterpiece, but you can rest assured that his "good" works are largely flawless. Not so with Handel.

[Josquin des Prez]

A fatuously erroneous "distinction" between Bach and Handel.

Is it the "distinction" that is erroneous or is the sheer act of making a distinction in the first instance that you find disagreeable?

[karlhenning]

Is it the "distinction" that is erroneous or is the sheer act of making a distinction in the first instance that you find disagreeable?

The former, of course.