Discrimination against progressives?

[Teresa]

I responded to a telephone survey and they asked a question that I could not answer.

Do you describe yourself as a liberal, conservative or moderate.  Choose "1" for liberal, "2" for conservative or "3" for moderate.

I'm none of these, I am a progressive and a Green Party member and would NEVER be a liberal or a conservative and moderates are too wishy washy for me.   Why NO fourth option for Progressive?    I kept saying "progressive" into the phone but the automated interviewer kept repeating the question over and over and after four repetitions the automated interviewer ended the call.

[Sean]

It's the usual policy for a defensive system- give people what looks like choice or debate when there's no real distinctions...

[Elgarian]

I'd want a fifth option, for 'none of the above'.

[Szykneij]

Sixth option --

[drogulus]

     

      It isn't a debate, it's a survey!

      OK, here's how I would do it:

      Welcome to the Political Affiliation Poll!

      Please choose the option that best describes your views.

      1) Liberal

      2) Moderate

      3) Labor

      4) Socialist

      5) Vegetarian

      6) Anarchist

      7) Libertarian

      8] Conservative

      9) Horde of the Damned

    10) Progressive

      The question would inevitably arise, don't you think, about the intentions, possibly hostile, of any organization that would seek this information? Even I'd be worried.

     

     

[Luke]

...yes, especially with that suspiciously, seductively subliminal square bracket on 8] Conservative..... they're so cunning, those guys!

[drogulus]

...yes, especially with that suspiciously, seductively subliminal square bracket on 8] Conservative..... they're so cunning, those guys!

      If I used the parenthesis I'd get . I could do that, but it would be wrong.

[Brian]

I'd like to respectfully register some disagreement with the thread; as an admirer of Theodore Roosevelt, I have always connected the term "progressive" with the Progressive Era, and politicians like Roosevelt, Taft, Charles Evans Hughes, Robert La Follette, Gifford Pinchot, etc. Most obviously, Roosevelt and La Follette ran for president as members of the Progressive Party, and Hughes was endorsed by them. So when people call themselves "progressives" today, I have to ask: would you have voted for Theodore Roosevelt?

[Franco]

I responded to a telephone survey and they asked a question that I could not answer.

Do you describe yourself as a liberal, conservative or moderate.  Choose "1" for liberal, "2" for conservative or "3" for moderate.

I'm none of these, I am a progressive and a Green Party member and would NEVER be a liberal or a conservative and moderates are too wishy washy for me.   Why NO fourth option for Progressive?    I kept saying "progressive" into the phone but the automated interviewer kept repeating the question over and over and after four repetitions the automated interviewer ended the call.

What do you consider the difference between a Liberal and a Progressive?

[MishaK]

Teresa, the only reason you abhor the label "liberal" is because it has been successfully established by the right wing in the US as a negative word, an insult almost. "Progressive" is hence the new "liberal". All the survey is asking is whether you lean left or right and as a Green that answer should be straightforward.

[Elgarian]

Sixth option --

I may be able to vote for this manifesto.

[DavidRoss]

What does "progressive" mean to you these days?  Most folks who use it self referentially seem to be Statists--which is hardly progressive but rather regressive.  It used to be code for "Socialist" -- but that's just a form of Statism.  Real "progressives" to me seem as if the ought to be Liberals, in the classic sense, favoring individual rights and liberties against the tyranny of both emperors and mobs, but these days the Classical Liberals seem to be called "Conservatives" and the folks who call themselves "Liberal" seem to be elitists trying to herd the mob into perpetuating the elitists' privileges at the expense of everyone else.

It's all very confusing.  Maybe instead of being so quick to append labels to ourselves and others, we should examine our core values.  If we did that, I suspect that most so-called "Conservatives" and "Liberals" would find they have an awful lot in common with each other--far more than they have with either "Democrats" or "Republicans," both of which simply place lip service to a subset of those values in an effort to pit voters against one another in order to divide and conquer.  Successfully, too, I might add.

[Florestan]

Excellent post, David. Political labels have lost all their meaning, as we see "Conservatives" which conserve nothing (except their own errors and follies) and "Liberals" for whom personal liberty is a 4-letter word.

That being said, I would call myself a Reactionary in the strictest sense: I react with disgust and horror to almost all political and economical developments since WWI.   

[MishaK]

That being said, I would call myself a Reactionary in the strictest sense: I react with disgust and horror to almost all political and economical developments since WWI.   

Oh yes, it's just been a regression since 1918.    We are so much worse off...

[greg]

Sixth option --

I think this is probably the first time I've actually laughed at "banana."

[Teresa]

What do you consider the difference between a Liberal and a Progressive?

Easy let's look a the problem of unemployment.

The liberal action was unemployment insurance and the welfare state.  While better than starving to death however this option destroys incentive and dignity.

The conservative action was tax incentives for businesses in the hopes that market forces would solve the problem.  The businesses took the money and opened plants overseas instead destroying even more jobs in the process. 

The progressive SOLUTION for unemployment is simple, SOLVE the problem, NOT throw money at it like liberal's and conservatives but simply GUARANTEE EVERYONE who wants a job, employment at a livable wage!  Just one of the many, many reasons I am a progressive, real solutions to real problems.   

Here is a chart showing the differences on various issues between the Democrats, Republicans and the Green Party.  http://www.therealdifference.org/issues2.html

As one poster said there is no longer much difference between conservatives and liberals.  However I consider it a horrible insult when people say progressive is just another word for liberal!

[Bulldog]

The progressive SOLUTION for unemployment is simple, SOLVE the problem, NOT throw money at it like liberal's and conservatives but simply GUARANTEE EVERYONE who wants a job, employment at a livable wage!  Just one of the many, many reasons I am a progressive, real solutions to real problems.   

Sorry, but that's not a viable solution.  However, I'm willing to consider it if you present your arguments.

[Scarpia]

The progressive SOLUTION for unemployment is simple, SOLVE the problem, NOT throw money at it like liberal's and conservatives but simply GUARANTEE EVERYONE who wants a job, employment at a livable wage!  Just one of the many, many reasons I am a progressive, real solutions to real problems.   

Aside from decreeing that everyone has a job, I'm not sure how this would be accomplished.  Raising the minimum wage is reasonable.  Regarding unemployed, the state could hire all unemployed people, but that also provides perverse incentives and results in a very inefficient economy, such as the old Soviet Union. 

[drogulus]

      All modern economies are statist to some degree in that they are regulated by the state. The difference concerns degree and techniques of regulation. The right prefers less regulation on capital and business unless it directly subsidizes the activities of the forms of business they favor, the left wants regulation for workers and consumers, seeing economic activity as serving goals of the society at large and not just economic actors considered narrowly. There are no non-statist economies in the modern world and there never will be one, since it would serve no ones interest to consider economic outcomes entirely decoupled from a vision of what kind of society is worth having. Democratic theory says people choose what they want, so they are "free to choose" something Milton Friedman wouldn't like.

     

Sixth option --

      11) Banana Republican

[MishaK]

The liberal action was unemployment insurance and the welfare state.  While better than starving to death however this option destroys incentive and dignity.

...

The progressive SOLUTION for unemployment is simple, SOLVE the problem, NOT throw money at it like liberal's and conservatives but simply GUARANTEE EVERYONE who wants a job, employment at a livable wage!  Just one of the many, many reasons I am a progressive, real solutions to real problems.   

No offense, but that is nonsense. Firstly, the reason most developed countries have unemployment benefits of some sort is not only to prevent the indignity of abject poverty of those who lose their jobs through no fault of their own, but also in order to ensure that their loss of employment doesn't immediately cause a sharp decline in consumer demand which would further drag down the economy in a negative-feedback loop.

Secondly, you can't just decree that every person shall have a job at a fair wage. That is not progressive, that is communist plain and simple. That has never ever worked. I might note that the Green party according to your link also doesn't support such a radical stance as you propose. By your own standards the Green party is liberal on this issue.

As one poster said there is no longer much difference between conservatives and liberals.  However I consider it a horrible insult when people say progressive is just another word for liberal!

OK, now we come to the point where we clearly have to state that you live in an alternate universe. No difference between conservatives and liberals? Where? Here in the US? You mean to tell me there is no difference between Glenn Beck and his "tea party" acolytes and Dennis Kucinich? Give me a break! And yes, progressive is just the modern word for liberal, since liberal became a cussword thanks to the right and the overly compliant media.