Discrimination against progressives?

[Teresa]

Sorry, but that's not a viable solution.  However, I'm willing to consider it if you present your arguments.

I am convinced it is the ONLY workable (pun intended) solution.  Here are some links to the arguments to universal Job Guarantee programs:

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2009/08/job-guarantee.html  Also check out the books and articles referenced at the end of the article.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/AJHR/1998/5.html

http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/job_guarantee/JobGuaranteeAnswer.cfm?question_id=7

Do a google search there are 1000's of articles about full employment to read.  And don't forget Article 23 of the the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a23

    * (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
    * (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
    * (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
    * (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

While I jazzed up a SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH PLAN is the way to go.  Remove the Insurance companies and their insane profits completely out of the equation.   Insurance is for CARS and HOMES not for betting against your heath.  Put all heath care workers on the government payroll (like in England), if you get sick go to the Doctor, he makes you well, no charge, no paperwork, no nosey insurance companies.  It's so damn simple and drastically less expensive but the insurance companies have billions of dollars to pay off the politicians and for advertising to scare voters into voting against their own interest.   

[Teresa]

OK, now we come to the point where we clearly have to state that you live in an alternate universe. No difference between conservatives and liberals? Where? Here in the US? You mean to tell me there is no difference between Glenn Beck and his "tea party" acolytes and Dennis Kucinich? Give me a break! And yes, progressive is just the modern word for liberal, since liberal became a cussword thanks to the right and the overly compliant media.

Conservatives throw money at the top hoping it spurs the economy to filter down to the workers (this has been proven to not work) and Liberals throw money at the problem in a band-aide attempt.  Progressives ARE THE ONLY ONES to get at the root of the problem and actually offer REAL solutions.  No band-aide attempts.

YOU ARE VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG PROGRESSIVE IS NOT ANOTHER WORD FOR LIBERAL.  I HATE LIBERALS AS MUCH AS I HATE CONSERVATIVES.   Some Progressive ideas could be called Socialist, I am not afraid of this word at all, perhaps you should study it?   But Liberal now to me that is indeed a very dirty word!!!!!!

[MishaK]

Teresa,

I note that you didn't address any of the substantive criticisms. Quite telling...

Conservatives throw money at the top hoping it spurs the economy to filter down to the workers (this has been proven to not work) and Liberals throw money at the problem in a band-aide attempt.  Progressives ARE THE ONLY ONES to get at the root of the problem and actually offer REAL solutions.  No band-aide attempts.

You have such a simplistic view of politics that I don't know where to begin. This is such a ridiculous caricature that its clearly unnecessary to substantively take this discussion much further. Your statements put your ability to process any counterarguments in serious doubt.

I will, however, point out that if a right to work is your pet cause, the Green party is probably not an ideal choice for you, as you will find that they don't share your persuasion entirely.

YOU ARE VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG PROGRESSIVE IS NOT ANOTHER WORD FOR LIBERAL.  I HATE LIBERALS AS MUCH AS I HATE CONSERVATIVES.

Yes and the fact that you hate them equally proves that they are not the same thing.    Hatred is not really compatible with democracy. In democracy you have to learn to cooperate and compromise with those holding other political views. Your fervor suggests that you prefer dictatorship.

Some Progressive ideas could be called Socialist, I am not afraid of this word at all, perhaps you should study it?

You make me laugh. I don't think you even know what 'Socialist' means. That word, too, had a variety of meanings depending on the historic and geopolitical context. I'm personally fine e.g. with French Socialism (which is really just a somewhat stronger social democratic movement), but Eastern European "socialism" is seriously problematic.

But Liberal now to me that is indeed a very dirty word!!!!!!

You have a lot of growing up to do.

[drogulus]

     There's a big difference between government guaranteed employment and converting the health care system to a Medicare model. The government has only a limited knowledge of how to employ people usefully in an economically rational way. Useful jobs can be created, but we'd need millions of them. Would make-work jobs be better than none? Probably yes, since it would stave off the collapse of tens of thousands of small businesses that go under when their customers lose their jobs and incomes. But in order for this kind of program to be a net gain it would have to shrink as fast as it grew so economically useful private employment could resume as soon as possible, producing the wealth necessary to pay off the deficits run up in the employment emergency. This is all basic Keynesianism but the direct application to employment is a giant headache. The government isn't set up for it. By comparison health care is a snap. We know how to do it, and getting rid of the vultures who make their profit off the denial of care to the sick would be hugely beneficial economically as well as morally. Perhaps the vultures can be offered job training.

[Florestan]

The progressive SOLUTION for unemployment is simple, [...] simply GUARANTEE EVERYONE who wants a job, employment at a livable wage!  

This is not a solution, this is a dream. How can it be done practically, pray tell?

I Put all heath care workers on the government payroll (like in England), if you get sick go to the Doctor, he makes you well, no charge, no paperwork, no nosey insurance companies. 

Mensch is right. You're living in Neverland and your grasp of politics and economy is Peter Pan-ish in the extreme.

Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

Human rights or not, this is plain rubbish. Work productivity in Communist Romania was much lower than in Western Germany and this is only one of the reasons why, for equal work, a Romanian worker was paid much lesser than his German counterpart. And I strongly suspect that had he complained about that, UN Human Rights Declaration in hand, to the factory's Party Secretary he'd have run into serious trouble.

The world's much more complicated than you imagine.

[david johnson]

the self-proclaimed 'progressives' i know are not dependable, but they are much more bias and rude than others    i do not trust them.

dj

[Teresa]

This is not a solution, this is a dream. How can it be done practically, pray tell?

Very easy! First tax disincentives for exporting labor to other countries.  Second tax incentives for the creation of new jobs with follow through to insure the jobs are real.  Third Government employment of all workers who are still unemployed in various work projects, including some very needed.  Once the infrastructure is repaired and intact, next we should begin exploration of outer space.  NASA statistics prove that $10 is returned to the economy for every dollar spent.  We can terraform and begin colonization of Mars.   There is so many things mankind can do to guarantee full employment!

Human rights or not, this is plain rubbish. Work productivity in Communist Romania was much lower than in Western Germany and this is only one of the reasons why, for equal work, a Romanian worker was paid much lesser than his German counterpart. And I strongly suspect that had he complained about that, UN Human Rights Declaration in hand, to the factory's Party Secretary he'd have run into serious trouble.

If you ever read Daniel de Leon you would know the former Soviet Union and it's satellites are NOT communist but State Capitalist Dictatorships.  The works of Marx and Engels and communism were perverted in order to subjugate the people.  They went from being being exploited by the Tzars to being exploited by the government.  Other than the short-lived Paris commune, the only other real communist governments to ever exist are hippy communes in Arizona. 

I am glad you brought up Germany, they enjoy guaranteed employment and retire with FULL pay at age 55!!!  Plus they have free health care just like most of Europe.

The world's much more complicated than you imagine.

I agree the world is very complicated, the solutions while hard should not be ignored! 

[Teresa]

the self-proclaimed 'progressives' i know are not dependable, but they are much more bias and rude than others    i do not trust them.

dj

You can trust Progressives, we LOVE everyone and are willing to do whatever it takes to insure everyone is able to live to their full potential and be happy.  Plus we are NEVER rude, it is not in our nature.

[Elgarian]

You can trust Progressives, we LOVE everyone and are willing to do whatever it takes to insure everyone is able to live to their full potential and be happy.  Plus we are NEVER rude, it is not in out nature.

Ah! Another manifesto I can vote for.

[Florestan]

Very easy! First tax disincentives for exporting labor to other countries.  Second tax incentives for the creation of new jobs with follow through to insure the jobs are real. 

You really believe in the Fairy Queen, don't you? Only in your case the Fairy Queen is another name for a gigantic, all-encompassing, all-supervising and all-taxing State.

Third Government employment of all workers who are still unemployed in various work projects, including some very needed.

"Progressive"? You must be kidding: Mussolini and Hitler did exactly that 80 years ago. But that's fine with me, as it shows the true nature of your economics: Fascism.

Once the infrastructure is repaired and intact, next we should begin exploration of outer space.  NASA statistics prove that $10 is returned to the economy for every dollar spent.  We can terraform and begin colonization of Mars. There is so many things mankind can do to guarantee full employment!

Progressive Teresa's real solutions that work: Soviet-style science-fiction...

If you ever read Daniel de Leon you would know the former Soviet Union and it's satellites are NOT communist but State Capitalist Dictatorships.  The works of Marx and Engels and communism were perverted in order to subjugate the people.  They went from being being exploited by the Tzars to being exploited by the government.  Other than the short-lived Paris commune, the only other real communist governments to ever exists are hippy communes in Arizona. 

All this, besides being highly questionable, doesn't in the least addresses the point: work productivity, in other words simple economics, make "equal pay for equal work" impossible.

I am glad you brought up Germany, they enjoy guaranteed employment and retire with FULL pay at age 55!!!  Plus they have free health care just like most of Europe.

Looks like your source of information on Germany is Brothers Grimm's Fairy Tales!

Retirement age in Germany has been raised in 2007 from 65 to 67. In December 2009 the overall unemployment rate in Germany was 7.8%, with Eastern lands at 12.1%. And of course, there is no such thing as free health care as it is financed by taxes on salaries, just like everywhere else in Europe.

I'm sure Mensch can further elaborate on these topics. The question is, will you be learning anything or just going on ranting cluelessly?

[Teresa]

Retirement age in Germany has been raised in 2007 from 65 to 67. In December 2009 the overall unemployment rate in Germany was 7.8%, with Eastern lands at 12.1%. And of course, there is no such thing as free health care as it is financed by taxes on salaries, just like everywhere else in Europe.

My information, admittedly dated says the retirement age of West Germany and Japan was 55, that was less than 30 years ago.  Was the retirement age raised in West Germany when it was reunited with East Germany forming one nation?  Do they still get to retire with their full wage?  Does that also mean Japan has raised their retirement age as well?  And what became of Germany's guaranteed employment, are they learning from the United States how to screw their citizens?  I am very curious about these changes for the worse.

Also I much prefer to pay for heath care through taxes, rather than the obscene profits of the Insurance companies and the super high administration costs of the paper work they require in their effort to provide as little health care as possible.  We are being screwed royally in the United States, just compare our heath care costs to any country that has free health care, which is every other civilized country in the world.  Our lack of free health care for it's citizens is what makes us a third world country in health care with the corresponding high infant mortality rates.

[Florestan]

what became of Germany's guaranteed employment, are they learning from the United States how to screw their citizens?

I think you mistake Germany (as in Federal Republic of Germany a.k.a. Western Germany) for the Democratic Republic of Germany (a.k.a. Eastern Germany, a defunct Communist / Socialist / Whatever-you-like-to-call-it state). No free-market, democratic capitalist country can ever guarantee employment.

Also I much prefer to pay for heath care through taxes, rather than the obscene profits of the Insurance companies and the super high administration costs of the paper work they require in their effort to provide as little health care as possible.  We are being screwed royally in the United States, just compare our heath care costs to any country that has free health care, which is every other civilized country in the world.  Our lack of free health care for it's citizens is what makes us a third world country in health care with the corresponding high infant mortality rates.

If you pay for it, it is not free. The fact that you don't pay your physician directly doesn't mean you haven't paid your share in the form of taxes which lowered your wage. Please, stop using this meaningless term "free health care".

[Franco]

Easy let's look a the problem of unemployment.


The progressive SOLUTION for unemployment is simple, SOLVE the problem, NOT throw money at it like liberal's and conservatives but simply GUARANTEE EVERYONE who wants a job, employment at a livable wage!  Just one of the many, many reasons I am a progressive, real solutions to real problems. 

Actually, I think Communist is the label that best describes your political category.

[Daidalos]

I do sympathise a bit with the OT. In Sweden, avowed Liberals are considered part of the centre-right alliance bloc of parties. We have, from most left-wing to most right-wing, the Left Party, the Social Democrats, the Green Party, The Centre Party, The People's Party (the liberals, amusingly enough), the Moderates, Christian Democrats; you can argue whether the Moderates or Christian Democrats is the more right-wing party, ditto for the Centrists and Liberals. It would be difficult for a Swede to answer the question, I think, and at the same time properly conveying what your political beliefs actually are. I don't think Progressive is the proper alternative; the left certainly has claimed the title for themselves, but in Sweden it seems strange, considering that the left bloc (spearheaded by the Social Democrats) has been in power for most of the time. Currently we have a centre-right government, but in this year's election the Social Democrats will probably reclaim power. The term Progressive just seems so relative to me, and tinged with bias; consider the dictionary.com definition:

1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.

Embedded in the definition there is a negative connotation associated with the alternative (presumably Conservatism); who doesn't want "improvement" and "progress"? So, if a left-wing government has been in power for a long time, should the right-wing opposition brand themselves as Progressives, since they say they want change, improvement or reform? If the meaning of the label, in political terms, can change so profoundly depending on the circumstances, it would seem of little use other than propaganda.

[Gurn Blanston]

Actually, I think Communist is the label that best describes your political category.

QFT    0:)

[MishaK]

Third Government employment of all workers who are still unemployed in various work projects, including some very needed.  Once the infrastructure is repaired and intact, next we should begin exploration of outer space.  NASA statistics prove that $10 is returned to the economy for every dollar spent.  We can terraform and begin colonization of Mars.   There is so many things mankind can do to guarantee full employment!

Who pays for this? How do you pay for it without increasing government debt or without raising taxes, which lowers demand, which lowers need for employment in the regular labor market?

If you ever read Daniel de Leon you would know the former Soviet Union and it's satellites are NOT communist but State Capitalist Dictatorships. 

And Daniel de Leon, whoever he is, is of course right and we should take that on faith? State Dictatorships yes.  Capitalist? Not in any normal sense of the word.

Edit: Do you mean this Daniel de Leon? If so, I hope you realize he died well before the Soviet Union and its satellites came to be.

I am glad you brought up Germany, they enjoy guaranteed employment and retire with FULL pay at age 55!!!  Plus they have free health care just like most of Europe.
I agree the world is very complicated, the solutions while hard should not be ignored!

This is a load of nonsense. The Federal Republic of Germany never had guaranteed employment, nor retirement at age 55 and never at full pay. Trust me. I was born and raised there and my parents retired at 65 from jobs as musicians in a government-run orchestra at less than full pay after 30+ years of service. And health care never was free. It costs much less than what it costs in the States, but it is not free. There is a single-payer government-run health insurance system into which you mandatorily contribute a percentage of your paycheck and those earning more than a certain minimum can opt out of it and buy private insurance at a higher premium which may give some additional benefits (like a guaranteed single room in a hospital). But free it is not.

I do sympathise a bit with the OT. In Sweden, avowed Liberals are considered part of the centre-right alliance bloc of parties. ... etc.

As a European you're dealing with the same confusion I dealt with when first studying American politics. In most of the world "liberal" means centrist with a preference for laissez-faire, i.e. as little government intervention as possible. Your Swedish Liberals, the German Free Democrats or the Liberal Democrats in the UK are cases in point. In the US "liberal" means what everywhere else would be considered "social-democratic". It's not the same meaning at all.

[WI Dan]

I HATE LIBERALS AS MUCH AS I HATE CONSERVATIVES.

You can trust Progressives, we LOVE everyone

LOL 

[Wendell_E]

Dan beat me to it! 

[Brahmsian]

What I don't get at all, is why the 'minimum wage' (at least here in Canada), puts you below the poverty line?

Shouldn't all minimum wage earners at least be near or above the poverty line?  I think anyone who actually does work, should have at least enough money to live on.

Is this the same with other countries and their set 'minimum wage' levels?

[WI Dan]

Discrimination against progressives!

Again!!