Discrimination against progressives?

[MishaK]

This is what liberals actually believe. A very telling introduction to their mindset. Useful idiots unto the last breath.

You prove my point: I disagree with you and, automatically, I'm branded a "liberal". Might as well have called me a commie.

I hope the irony [...] is not lost on you.

Ah, yes! Irony! If only you knew what that was!

[Josquin des Prez]

You prove my point: I disagree with you and, automatically, I'm branded a "liberal". Might as well have called me a commie.

You disagreed with a strawman of your own making, a distorted and gross over simplification of conservative ideas which did not bear being challenged. And i call you a liberal because that's what you are. You people are not fooling anybody by feigning political neutrality in a sad attempt at making other people look partisan...

Ah, yes! Irony! If only you knew what that was!

...only to pretend you were just being "ironic" in your vitriolic attacks.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Because in US conservatism, the myth is that the US constitution is not an ephemeral document created by mortal men at a a particular historic time. Rather, it is practically the word of God, and the founding fathers are at least on the level of apostles. . . . . Ergo, all who disagree are practically heretics. Compromise is impossible, indeed immoral.

Except of course when the Constitution doesn't serve conservatives' purposes. They're pretty high on the 2nd Amendment, even though (despite the Court's recent ruling) it's at least questionable whether the right to bear arms extends beyond the establishment of a well-regulated national militia. They're not too keen on Article I, Sec. 8 or the 16th Amendment, which grant Congress the right to levy taxes. And just today Mme. Palin, the Killa from Wassila whose main achievement so far has been to quit the highest office to which she was elected, stood proudly with the Tea Partiers in condemning the establshment of a Muslim community center two blocks from Ground Zero. Problem is, as Mike Bloomberg and others have recognized, the 1st Amendment grants such rights as freedom of religion and of assembly. But apparently not in this case, at least not for the Killa from Wassila.

[MishaK]

You disagreed with a strawman of your own making, a distorted and gross over simplification of conservative ideas which did not bear being challenged.

Of course it's an oversimplification! That's what I'm saying: you guys just don't grasp irony! It's pretty funny actually...

[quote author=Josquin des Prez link=topic=15598.msg431719#msg431719
And i call you a liberal because that's what you are. You people are not fooling anybody by feigning political neutrality in a sad attempt at making other people look partisan...
[/quote]

Who said anything about neutrality? (BTW, you aren't partisan yourself? HA!) Point is, in your universe there is only people who agree with you and on the other side liberal/commie/socialist/pinko. It's a bipolar world with no other alternatives.

Except of course when the Constitution doesn't serve conservatives' purposes. They're pretty high on the 2nd Amendment, even though (despite the Court's recent ruling) it's at least questionable whether the right to bear arms extends beyond the establishment of a well-regulated national militia. They're not too keen on Article I, Sec. 8 or the 16th Amendment, which grant Congress the right to levy taxes. And just today Mme. Palin, the Killa from Wassila whose main achievement so far has been to quit the highest office to which she was elected, stood proudly with the Tea Partiers in condemning the establshment of a Muslim community center two blocks from Ground Zero. Problem is, as Mike Bloomberg and others have recognized, the 1st Amendment grants such rights as freedom of religion and of assembly. But apparently not in this case, at least not for the Killa from Wassila.

Go easy with them, Sforzando. They don't handle complexity well. "Moral clarity" is the name of the game.    Constitutional rights like gun ownership are for "good people", not for "evil" Muslims.

[Saul]

Quote
"Obama isn't even a real left-winger".

Not only he is worse then a left-winger radical, but he is even more dangerous.

Just take these few things into consideration:

* The man attended a church for 20 years that is headed by a Pastor who is an Anti Semite and Anti White and anti American. When Obama was asked how can it be that he had never heard any of the vicious bellicose attacks of his pastor on Jews and Whites and America, he said that he just wasn't aware that his Pastor spoke like that.

This is a lie, yet the Liberal and Progressive establishments butter-coated the whole incident.

Imagine if a Republican candidate had strong and warm ties to the infamous racist bigot David Duke, and attended his lectures for 20 years?
What would  the Libs and Progs have done?

Day in and day out wild demonstrations, and protests, appeals to the Supreme Court, attacks on the Media, and so on, non stop. Of course that's what they should have done, no one ever wants to see a Republican Candidate like that in the Office of the President of the United States. But when it comes to their members who are extremely notorious, and are bigots , and liars just like Obama is, they are silent, and they are doing everything in their power to exonerate him of his negative history. This kind of behavior on part of the Libs and Progs is unacceptable and completely dishonest.

* The man never had any experience in politics besides been a 'community organizer'.
Just because he spoke some peppered English, the Left embraced him like bees embrace honey, but honey at least is sweet, Obama, is not sweet at all. He is mean and very aggressive, in fact he is the very first President in the history of the U.S that said in a televised interview in front of millions of listeners when he was asked about the Oil Spill of BP :"I'm gonna kick some Ass". That's no way for a President to speak.

Yet on the other side of the story, Governor Palin who I'm not a great Fan of, was literally Press-Butchered and turned into a Nobody by the Liberal Left wing Media, even though she had an actual technical Record of positive things that she had done for her State as Governor of Alaska.

The Liberals and their cousins the Progressives, don't care for the truth and for fair-play, all they care is to get  power, and they are willing to be dishonest, hypocritical, and downright cheaters just to get those chairs in high offices.

When you play so dirty, don't be surprised that people don't trust you when you say that you want to fight for them. True heroes are not made like that. True heroism has to do with Honesty, integrity, and truthfulness, things that both the Liberal and Progressive movements, lack desperately.

[Josquin des Prez]

Incidentally, i just read that David Duke is planning to run for president. Much amusement is bound to ensue.

[Saul]

Incidentally, i just read that David Duke is planning to run for president. Much amusement is bound to ensue.

Duke won't Dupe America.

[greg]

Incidentally, i just read that David Duke is planning to run for president. Much amusement is bound to ensue.

Lol, what would be hilarious and sad would be seeing Obama's pastor and this guy as the two guys to vote for running for president.
Needless to say, I wouldn't vote for any of them. I'd just draw a giant middle finger in the areas where the check boxes are.

[DavidRoss]

Ah, now I get it. He's absurdly simplistic and bigoted, you're not. Nothing bigoted about this, huh Dave?

You're playing the same games you've been playing at CMG . . .

If you mean speaking plain truth even if it's not politically correct, then yes.  Please correct me if I'm wrong by showing what's inaccurate about the statements you object to.  Obviously they're intended to challenge assumptions and provoke thought...and to rebut Teresa's absurdly naïve proclamations that "Progressives" are sugar and spice and everything nice, while folks of other persuasions are all rascals and reprobates.

What counts, of course, is not words, but deeds--and their consequences.  The term "progressive" was applied to a number of political movements during the 20th Century, starting with Teddy Roosevelt's trust-busting (note that TR was a Republican and by today's standards would be generally regarded as "conservative").  The term seems to have been resurrected again in the past decade, self-applied by liberal Democrats who are even more Statist than left-learning Democrats like Obama and Pelosi.

Of course, since there is no "Progressive" party these days or umbrella organization to establish a uniform agenda or platform, contemporary "Progressivism" may be seen as a sort of populist movement, not unlike the "tea partiers"--though, of course, the policy views characterizing these two movements could hardly be more different (even though I believe they share fundamentally similar visions of hoped-for end-states, the methods they propose to reach those end-states are diametrically opposed).

The common denominator among the various policies promoted by those now labeling themselves "Progressive" (would they still latch onto that term if they understood that the ideology of "progress" has been thoroughly discredited?) is the concentration of increasing power in the hands of government, in the naïve belief that government is by nature beneficent and that a wise and noble ruling elite will enact and enforce only "good" laws that are necessary to compel the general populace to conform to the progressives' ideals.  Love and prosperity for all will follow in the progressive utopia and everyone will live happily ever after (except, perhaps, for the "bad people" who disagree with the progressives; they will be punished and re-educated and will learn to go along if they know what's good for them!).

Let's be clear that virtually ALL of the stated goals of "Progressives" are laudable.  Who among us would not love to see "free" universal health care, well-paying meaningful work for everyone, "free" education for all, child care, efficient transportation, perfect justice, civil rights, safe streets and communities, no crime, no poverty, fair elections, secure retirement, affordable housing, and so on?  Those are goals that virtually all of us would love to achieve, at least in the West.

The problem is in knowing how we can get there from here.  And this is where wisdom must cast a suspicious eye on the "Progressive" approach, for it has been responsible for many of the most appalling horrors that humankind has ever seen.  On the other hand, real measurable progress that has substantially improved the material and spiritual lives of masses the world over has been achieved by tried and true methods that have been tested over centuries and which people the world over are rushing to embrace...even as American "Progressives" seek to destroy or cripple that same engine of progress in their own homeland.

[Saul]

Let's be clear that virtually ALL of the stated goals of "Progressives" are laudable.  Who among us would not love to see "free" universal health care, well-paying meaningful work for everyone, "free" education for all, child care, efficient transportation, perfect justice, civil rights, safe streets and communities, no crime, no poverty, fair elections, secure retirement, affordable housing, and so on?  Those are goals that virtually all of us would love to achieve, at least in the West.

The problem is in knowing how we can get there from here.  And this is where wisdom must cast a suspicious eye on the "Progressive" approach, for it has been responsible for many of the most appalling horrors that humankind has ever seen.  On the other hand, real measurable progress that has substantially improved the material and spiritual lives of masses the world over has been achieved by tried and true methods that have been tested over centuries and which people the world over are rushing to embrace...even as American "Progressives" seek to destroy or cripple that same engine of progress in their own homeland.

Well Said, Dave.

[Josquin des Prez]

Lol, what would be hilarious and sad would be seeing Obama's pastor and this guy as the two guys to vote for running for president.
Needless to say, I wouldn't vote for any of them. I'd just draw a giant middle finger in the areas where the check boxes are.

The difference is that the good pastor was nothing more then a raving lunatic. David Duke is far more articulate and he's going to drive people into hysterics. He is already building a presence on youtube and the media won't be able to ignore him forever. The amount of lulz generated by his campaign will reach epic proportions in no time.

[Franco]

Of course it's an oversimplification! That's what I'm saying: you guys just don't grasp irony! It's pretty funny actually...

Who said anything about neutrality? (BTW, you aren't partisan yourself? HA!) Point is, in your universe there is only people who agree with you and on the other side liberal/commie/socialist/pinko. It's a bipolar world with no other alternatives.

Go easy with them, Sforzando. They don't handle complexity well. "Moral clarity" is the name of the game.    Constitutional rights like gun ownership are for "good people", not for "evil" Muslims.

You don't strike me as any exhibiting any difference from what you accuse JdP of (which is in tune with the character of someone who accuses others of the flaws in himself) - except, your tone is one of a sneering sense of superiority - none of which speaks well for your philosophy (whatever it is since you disavow any label it resembles).

If you are an example of what your philosophy produces, then I want nothing to do with it.

[oabmarcus]

Quote
"Obama isn't even a real left-winger".

Not only he is worse then a left-winger radical, but he is even more dangerous.

You watch Glenn Beck right? Is Fox news the only channel you have in your house?
btw, Obama is actualy center right. So, no, not even close being a left winger. Everybody really hoped him would be one when we all elected for him, but no, once he got in power, he showed his true colors. A fucking corporatist.

This is a lie, yet the Liberal and Progressive establishments butter-coated the whole incident.

How? Because us liberal and progressives own mainstream media? Because we are so powerful and rich, yes, the party who identifies with blacks and minorities, we are so rich and powerful, we decide what the news is! Which parallel universe are you live in? The same one Rush Limbaugh lives in?

Imagine if a Republican candidate had strong and warm ties to the infamous racist bigot David Duke, and attended his lectures for 20 years?
What would  the Libs and Progs have done?

Probably not much, considering how pussy the main stream media is. And how weak the liberals are in defending themselves from outrageous attacks from the far right. I have lost count, how many times right wingers called Obama a socialist, communist, nazi, etc.... whatever, and how typical, you are the one to turn facts around and point your finger at the liberals? Liberals never attack, they are weak, that's why more people should join the progressive movement, why? because we bite back!

Day in and day out wild demonstrations, and protests, appeals to the Supreme Court, attacks on the Media, and so on, non stop. Of course that's what they should have done, no one ever wants to see a Republican Candidate like that in the Office of the President of the United States. But when it comes to their members who are extremely notorious, and are bigots , and liars just like Obama is, they are silent, and they are doing everything in their power to exonerate him of his negative history. This kind of behavior on part of the Libs and Progs is unacceptable and completely dishonest.

all the protests so far I have seen are from Teabaggers bitching about how they don't want a n*gger to be their president.
How intersting, if Obama defends himself, you call him aggressive; if he is silent, you call him a liar. mm, begining to see a pattern here? It seems, no matter what Obama does, whether it is reaching out to the Republicans 100% of time, and watering down financial regulations, you guys don't even care about the facts! again, it's like you live on some parallel dimension, totally unaware of what the hell it is going on in the real world. HEY! Obama is actually HELPING you! Look how weak the health care bill was, look how weak the financial reforms is, look how he has help big business to ruin american's poor and middle class. You should be praising Obama! Why is this so hard, oh, right, you people seldom think rationally, instead you just stick to blind ideology no matter what!

* The man never had any experience in politics besides been a 'community organizer'.
Just because he spoke some peppered English, the Left embraced him like bees embrace honey, but honey at least is sweet, Obama, is not sweet at all. He is mean and very aggressive, in fact he is the very first President in the history of the U.S that said in a televised interview in front of millions of listeners when he was asked about the Oil Spill of BP :"I'm gonna kick some Ass". That's no way for a President to speak.

and of course, Bush never said anything "mean" about the the anybody, how about Cheney? I bet the sweet man has never swear even once in his life! get real man, all adults swear and cuss. Obama is weak, the least bit agressive. When Joe Wilson yelled out "you lie", did he smack the son of a bitch by calling him names? I would, but I'm no president material. If anything, Obama is a pussy, that's why he is doing everything Republicans asking him to do.

Yet on the other side of the story, Governor Palin who I'm not a great Fan of, was literally Press-Butchered and turned into a Nobody by the Liberal Left wing Media, even though she had an actual technical Record of positive things that she had done for her State as Governor of Alaska.

One heart beat away from the presidency just made up a word for our amusement. "Refudiate", she compares herself to the great William Shakespeare, and we all know what a great literary figure she is!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/19/AR2010071904916.html

The Liberals and their cousins the Progressives, don't care for the truth and for fair-play, all they care is to get  power, and they are willing to be dishonest, hypocritical, and downright cheaters just to get those chairs in high offices.

that actually apply for both Democratic and Republican party. But not for progressives, you obviously don't know a thing about progressivism, like how you have no idea for pretty much everything else.

When you play so dirty, don't be surprised that people don't trust you when you say that you want to fight for them. True heroes are not made like that. True heroism has to do with Honesty, integrity, and truthfulness, things that both the Liberal and Progressive movements, lack desperately.

The politicians, regardless of left or right all play dirty, and lack honesty, integrity, and truthfulness. It seems you have never left your mother's tits, well, guess what, they are all screwing you! whether you are on the left or the right, these politicians can only think about how to cater to big corporations for their donations, and get re-elected, get more money, retire and working as a lobbyist. The only way out of our present predicament is rapid change through progressivism. Like it or not, rapid change can only be brought on by people on the left, if you are a patriot who can forgo your ideology for the future of America, then you can swallow your pride and DO THE RIGHT THING.

[Teresa]

Quote
"Obama isn't even a real left-winger".

The Liberals and their cousins the Progressives, don't care for the truth and for fair-play...

Quit already with your DISGRACEFUL and DISHONEST attempt to group Progressives with Liberals, your sly attempts will NOT work.  Please apologize.  Progressives are the only parties that care about the ENTIRE WHOLE TRUTH and FAIR-PLAY for everyone.  Nothing whatsoever like the dreaded corporate-fed Liberals and their cousins Conservatives. 

The PROGRESSIVES DID NOT support Obama.  Why? Simple reason he is NOT a progressive and many felt he would further the damaging agenda of Bush!!!
Green Party to antiwar Americans: don't waste your vote on Obama


"Green Party leaders said today that antiwar voters will not get an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by voting for presumed Democratic nominee Barack Obama on Election Day.

Green leaders urged Americans who oppose the wars started by the Bush Administration with bipartisan support in Congress to vote instead for Green nominee Cynthia McKinney, running mate Rosa Clemente, and Green congressional candidates."

Greens protest Obama Administration proposals that would dismantle Social Security, public housing

Greens call President Obama's resurrection of nuclear power and handout for Georgia nuclear reactors his "worst idea yet"

There are tons more links that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Progressive parties did not support Obama because of his policies.

And yes we were screwed, we did not get Single-Payer Universal Heath Care which would have save the country   billions of dollars by removing the middle man.  No we got Heath Care that involves the greedy Insurance Companies and heath care costs are actually going to go up, not down.  NO WAY IS OBAMA A PROGRESSIVE, NO WAY IN HELL! 

And guess what we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, what happened to his promise? 

[oabmarcus]

Quit already with your DISGRACEFUL and DISHONEST attempt to group Progressives with Liberals, your sly attempts will NOT work.  Please apologize.  Progressives are the only parties that care about the ENTIRE WHOLE TRUTH and FAIR-PLAY for everyone.  Nothing whatsoever like the dreaded corporate-fed Liberals and their cousins Conservatives. 

The PROGRESSIVES DID NOT support Obama.  Why? Simple reason he is NOT a progressive and many felt he would further the damaging agenda of Bush!!!
Green Party to antiwar Americans: don't waste your vote on Obama


"Green Party leaders said today that antiwar voters will not get an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by voting for presumed Democratic nominee Barack Obama on Election Day.

Green leaders urged Americans who oppose the wars started by the Bush Administration with bipartisan support in Congress to vote instead for Green nominee Cynthia McKinney, running mate Rosa Clemente, and Green congressional candidates."

Greens protest Obama Administration proposals that would dismantle Social Security, public housing

Greens call President Obama's resurrection of nuclear power and handout for Georgia nuclear reactors his "worst idea yet"

There are tons more links that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Progressive parties did not support Obama because of his policies.

And yes we were screwed, we did not get Single-Payer Universal Heath Care which would have save the country   billions of dollars by removing the middle man.  No we got Heath Care that involves the greedy Insurance Companies and heath care costs are actually going to go up, not down.  NO WAY IS OBAMA A PROGRESSIVE, NO WAY IN HELL! 

And guess what we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, what happened to his promise?

I voted for Obama, because he promised a lot things. "Change",  "CHANGE", "CHANGE" it was exciting to hear and see. But, what has he done in the last 2 years? nothing. Totally for establishment, no substantive change, gives in immediately when the other side pinch his arm. He is like the nerd who gets bullied around all the time, why doesn't he fight back more often?

[Teresa]

Of course, since there is no "Progressive" party these days or umbrella organization to establish a uniform agenda or platform, contemporary "Progressivism" may be seen as a sort of populist movement.

The Green Party is the most active and vocal Progressive Party and they have a platform and opinions on ALL the important issues of the day.  You don't have to be in the dark, so you no longer have to misrepresent what Progressives stand for.  If you spend a few hours reading about REAL progressives you will learn how wrong you are in you absurd opinions of us.

[Saul]

You watch Glenn Beck right? Is Fox news the only channel you have in your house?
btw, Obama is actualy center right. So, no, not even close being a left winger. Everybody really hoped him would be one when we all elected for him, but no, once he got in power, he showed his true colors. A fucking corporatist.
How? Because us liberal and progressives own mainstream media? Because we are so powerful and rich, yes, the party who identifies with blacks and minorities, we are so rich and powerful, we decide what the news is! Which parallel universe are you live in? The same one Rush Limbaugh lives in?
Probably not much, considering how pussy the main stream media is. And how weak the liberals are in defending themselves from outrageous attacks from the far right. I have lost count, how many times right wingers called Obama a socialist, communist, nazi, etc.... whatever, and how typical, you are the one to turn facts around and point your finger at the liberals? Liberals never attack, they are weak, that's why more people should join the progressive movement, why? because we bite back!
all the protests so far I have seen are from Teabaggers bitching about how they don't want a n*gger to be their president.
How intersting, if Obama defends himself, you call him aggressive; if he is silent, you call him a liar. mm, begining to see a pattern here? It seems, no matter what Obama does, whether it is reaching out to the Republicans 100% of time, and watering down financial regulations, you guys don't even care about the facts! again, it's like you live on some parallel dimension, totally unaware of what the hell it is going on in the real world. HEY! Obama is actually HELPING you! Look how weak the health care bill was, look how weak the financial reforms is, look how he has help big business to ruin american's poor and middle class. You should be praising Obama! Why is this so hard, oh, right, you people seldom think rationally, instead you just stick to blind ideology no matter what!
and of course, Bush never said anything "mean" about the the anybody, how about Cheney? I bet the sweet man has never swear even once in his life! get real man, all adults swear and cuss. Obama is weak, the least bit agressive. When Joe Wilson yelled out "you lie", did he smack the son of a bitch by calling him names? I would, but I'm no president material. If anything, Obama is a pussy, that's why he is doing everything Republicans asking him to do.
One heart beat away from the presidency just made up a word for our amusement. "Refudiate", she compares herself to the great William Shakespeare, and we all know what a great literary figure she is!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/19/AR2010071904916.html
that actually apply for both Democratic and Republican party. But not for progressives, you obviously don't know a thing about progressivism, like how you have no idea for pretty much everything else.
The politicians, regardless of left or right all play dirty, and lack honesty, integrity, and truthfulness. It seems you have never left your mother's tits, well, guess what, they are all screwing you! whether you are on the left or the right, these politicians can only think about how to cater to big corporations for their donations, and get re-elected, get more money, retire and working as a lobbyist. The only way out of our present predicament is rapid change through progressivism. Like it or not, rapid change can only be brought on by people on the left, if you are a patriot who can forgo your ideology for the future of America, then you can swallow your pride and DO THE RIGHT THING.

I'm not supporting the Republicans here, but demonstrating to everyone the lies and distortions and the dishonesty of the Liberal and Progressive notorious institutions.

But yes indeed one shouldn't place his hopes with the Libs/Progs or the Republicans, but if I had to choose, I will always choose the Republicans any day !

[Saul]

Listen to this Teresa!

http://www.youtube.com/v/cphubqW3kL8

[Saul]

And this!

Glenn Beck Exposes the Progressive Movements Fascist Agenda 

http://www.youtube.com/v/V5kRgf45ZwI&feature=related

[Saul]

And this!
Glenn Beck Talks About The Bald Communist And Progressives

This Progressive says that he is a communist!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/odXyfFG-h6w