Elliott Carter, 1908-2012

[karlhenning]

Thanks, Joe; very helpful!

[Joe Barron]

I had no idea he had written so little during the 1960s. 
--Bruce

It makes sense, though, since that was the decade in which he perfected his hypercomplex style. He wrote more pieces than I had thought in the 40s, but it was mostly neoclassical stuff with a few experiemental pieces mixed in.  Productivity fell off during the 50s, as the new style came into being, then  picked up again in the 70s.

But I'd like to know how he spent most of his time in the 60s. It couldn't have all been composition and note-keeping.

[bwv 1080]

But I'd like to know how he spent most of his time in the 60s. It couldn't have all been composition and note-keeping.

dropping acid and travelling to India with the Beatles?

[Joe Barron]

dropping acid and travelling to India with the Beatles?

He's the one in the picture on the far left, between Donovan and Mia Farrow ...

[Joe Barron]

Correction: I counted Micomicon twice on the list. Number comes down to 115. Changed it retroactively, rather than posting the whole thing again.  Median is still BV 58, 1990.

[Joe Barron]

BWV, I've whittled your list down to the major pieces I think you should seek out first: 

27. Sonata for Flute, Oboe, Cello and Harpsichord   1952
28. Variations for Orchestra   1955
30. Double Concerto   1961
36. Brass Quintet   1974
44. Triple Duo    1983   
65. Trilogy   1992   
81. Luimen   1997   
87. Tempo e Tempi   1989-1999 
82. What Next?   1997-1998   
95. Oboe Quartet   2001   
96. 4 Lauds   1984-2001   
98. Retracing   2002
101. Of Rewaking   2002   
107. Three Illusions for Orchestra   2004   
110. Soundings   2005   
114. In the Distances of Sleep (2006)

[bhodges]

Great advice, Joe.  That's a very well-considered survey that shows off Carter's range.

I've mentioned it before (maybe on the old board), but I love this recording of the Variations for Orchestra with Levine and Chicago.  (And OK, I confess: I love the cover.  )



--Bruce

[Mark G. Simon]

It makes sense, though, since that was the decade in which he perfected his hypercomplex style. He wrote more pieces than I had thought in the 40s, but it was mostly neoclassical stuff with a few experiemental pieces mixed in.  Productivity fell off during the 50s, as the new style came into being, then  picked up again in the 70s.

But I'd like to know how he spent most of his time in the 60s. It couldn't have all been composition and note-keeping.

Just a guess, but:

One of the things he had to do was learn to compose in his new manner. He would have been compiling his "Harmony Book" during this period, as well as a table of rhythmic ratios which would enable him to relate any tempo to any other tempo in terms of "this in the time of that" and calculate how many beats would have to occur in two simultaneous tempos before the beats would coincide (since he likes to structure his pieces around these moments of coincidence). He had to absorb this information to the point where it came naturally and he didn't have to think about the mechanics of it too much.

Also, he was just starting to become famous and so his time was in greater demand than he might have been accustomed to. He would have had to do a lot of negotiating with performers, publishers, etc. that he can now have others do for him now that he's a Big Name. And he probably had to baby sit with a lot of performers and teach them to count the crazy rhythms that nobody was yet comfortable playing.

[bwv 1080]

BWV, I've whittled your list down to the major pieces I think you should seek out first: 

27. Sonata for Flute, Oboe, Cello and Harpsichord   1952
28. Variations for Orchestra   1955
30. Double Concerto   1961
36. Brass Quintet   1974
44. Triple Duo    1983   
65. Trilogy   1992   
81. Luimen   1997   
87. Tempo e Tempi   1989-1999 
82. What Next?   1997-1998   
95. Oboe Quartet   2001   
96. 4 Lauds   1984-2001   
98. Retracing   2002
101. Of Rewaking   2002   
107. Three Illusions for Orchestra   2004   
110. Soundings   2005   
114. In the Distances of Sleep (2006)

Thanks,  I must have missed Tempo e Tempi, because I have it on the Quintets and Voices DVD.  I am assuming all the late pieces are on Bridge and I know the recordings for the 50's and 60's pieces.  Who has recorded the Brass Quintet?

[Joe Barron]

James, all your suggestions are excellent, but I think BWV already knows them. I was taking my recommendations from the list of works BWV says he hasn't heard yet. As for vocal music: If you haven't heard Tempo e tempi, I'd suggest you look into it. It contains some of the most sensual (sensuous?) music Carter has written. Perhaps it took the Italian language to bring out that side of him. I was also very pleased with "In the Distances of Sleep," though that has not been recorded yet.

BWV, the Brass Quintet, one of my favorite of all Carter's works, is available on CD in a performance by the American Brass Quintet. There is also a CD called "The Wallace Collection" that includes a very luminous rendition, but I don't know if it's been discontinued. I can recommend either disk with a clear conscience.

And everybody, big news: I have just heard from an inside source that What Next? is scheduled for a full staging at the Miller Theater, NYC, in December.

Oh.
Happy.
Days.

[Lethevich]

Slow day at work, and I have just wasted an hour putting together a numbered, chronological list of Mr. Carter's works.

IMO contributions like that to his Wikipedia page (or a seperate works page) would be valuable - for a significant composer mr. Carter's Wikipedia page is a bit crummy - no recommended recordings, no photo etc. It'd be neat to get it to Good Article status...

[Joe Barron]

thanks joe, ill try to check it out, another vocal work ive heard was syringa, didnt do much for me either unfortunately...but the idea of a Carter brass quintet is something id like to hear, too bad naxos doesnt have a cycle of his works going, its about time me thinks...

Oh, I love Syringa. Have ever since I first heard it live, back in December 1978. I like it in part, I think, for it's length. With just one big movement, the the music gathers a momentum and force that Carter's shorter songs don't have. And the part where the bartitone sings, "Apollo, Apollo" gives me chills.

Tempo e tempi shows another side of Carter. The songs are all very brief --- one consists of only one line --- and they depend a great deal on tone color for their effect. Beautiful stuff. I must say, though, I haven't gotten into "Of Challenge and of Love" very much.

The Bridge label is the one doing the Carter series. There are seven volumes so far.

[Joe Barron]

Night Fantasies is his piano masterpiece that doesnt get enough attention IMO. A stunning piece.

Agree it's stunning, though I'm not sure it doesn't get enough attention. As his most substantial solo work since the Piano Sonata, it's been picked up by a lot of pianists. I've heard it live about five or six times --- last time, with Ursula Oppens, was just this past winter, and the most exciting reading I've encountered --- and it's been recorded eight times.  Extraordinary for a postwar, atonal piece. It's got to be some kind of a record. I'd go so far as to say it's entered the repertoire.

[not edward]

Tempo e tempi shows another side of Carter. The songs are all very brief --- one consists of only one line --- and they depend a great deal on tone color for their effect. Beautiful stuff. I must say, though, I haven't gotten into "Of Challenge and of Love" very much.

I think Tempo e tempi is probably my favourite of Carter's song cycles: it seems to me the finest distillation of his late lyrical style (though the Boston Concerto comes close).

With Of Challenge and of Love, I didn't get it in the Lucy Shelton recording on Koch, but I'm rather more partial to Tony Arnold on Bridge.

[Joe Barron]

thats good to hear, do you happen to know how many recordings of the work are available? i have heard aimard's recording, and i have that rosen disc, which is good...it has the piano sonata and 90+ also

Let's see, in addition to Aimard and Rosen, Night Fantisies been recorded by Aleck Karis, Stephen Drury, Ursula Oppens, Winston Choi, Florence Millet and Paul Jacobs. Of all those, I think only the Millet and Jacobs recordings are out of print. Jacobs' performance, the first, on Nonesuch, never made it onto CD. Maybe also Karis; it's been so long since I bought that disk I can't be sure. You can always do search on Amazon. You can also hear Drury's reading for free at artofthestaes.org.

As for recommendations, my favorite CD are by Oppens and Drury, with Aimard a close second. I have Choi and Millet, too, but I have not listened to them much. I'll have to go back and listen again, maybe give you a full report. 

I wish Oppens would record the Noght Fantasies again, though. Judging by the live performance I heard at Curtis, she's come a long way with the piece. She was really on top of it. She made it feel like an organic whole, with each episode rising naturally out of another.

[not edward]

There's also a Louise Bessette recording on her disc 'Quebec 5, USA 3'.

[Joe Barron]

There's also a Louise Bessette recording on her disc 'Quebec 5, USA 3'.

That makes nine. Thanks, Edward. I hadn't known.

[bwv 1080]

I wish Oppens would record the Noght Fantasies again, though. Judging by the live performance I heard at Curtis, she's come a long way with the piece. She was really on top of it. She made it feel like an organic whole, with each episode rising naturally out of another.

I think her performance of 90+ on the Arditti 5th SQ disk is about the best Carter piano recorded. 

[bwv 1080]

I made some changes to the Carter entry on the Wikipedia page, adding some information on Carter's musical style.  I would appreciate any feedback or edits.

[bwv 1080]

well it is supposed to be factual.  what it does need however is a paragraph or two on Carter's artistic goals - his concepts of musicians as dramatic actors and his relationship with 20th century american poetry