Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Not to mention Imperial march's clear homage to Chopin's marche funébre in his second piano sonata.

http://www.trell.org/wagner/starwars.html

[DavidW]

Ives was a heavy borrower but his music is strikingly original.

While Williams borrows his Star Wars scores are memorable, unique and known and cherished by just about everyone.

[eyeresist]

Yes, Williams's Late Romantic borrowings are obvious in his orchestral settings, but the actual thematic material is original, often striking and memorable (I don't even need to give examples, do I?), and his technique is impeccable.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Homage and outright theft/borrowing are different matters. Otherwise string melody in final movement of Brahms's first would be stealing from Beethoven's 9th.

[Lethevich]

Ah nice, Brahms's decade long grappling with the post Beethoven symphony is no different from a deadline-chasing composer borrowing ideas - it's all an hommage...

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

[Classical music forum]
"Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?"

[DSLR forum]
"Can a digital compact camera take pictures?"

[Linux forum]
"Is Windows an operation system?]

[42]
"Is Biggus Dickus' dick bigger than Donald Ducks big dick?"

[Scarpia]

Battling Shostakoviches

[Szykneij]

Battling Shostakoviches

Tapio's wins because of the cool hat.

[Grazioso]

Battling Shostakoviches

The "railroad engineer on holiday" Shostakovich clearly wins.

[Grazioso]

"Is Biggus Dickus' dick bigger than Donald Ducks big dick?"

http://www.youtube.com/v/2K8_jgiNqUc

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

Battling Shostakoviches

Come on, Signore Barone Scarpia, to my knowledge there are only two active Shostakoviches here. We'd even need thousands more to weigh up the real Shostakoviches genious

The "railroad engineer on holiday" Shostakovich clearly wins.

Yes, it's funny, old man, heavy glasses and a funny hat. I also like the nervous Shosti very much (admittedly the following picture has a lot of concern and tragedy, too):



Thread duty. I think I may have mentioned before: IMO Williams was pretty much influenced by Shostakovich. Darth Vaders theme is from the theme in Shosta Sym.1/2.mvmt, and when I listen to Shostakovich #11 I think this pretty much sounds like a Williams' starship battle, for instance the beginning of Mvmt. 4 (The Tocsin)...

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

I love that spot

http://www.youtube.com/v/R55e-uHQna0

[mc ukrneal]

I love that spot

http://www.youtube.com/v/R55e-uHQna0

Never fails to crack me up...

[Scarpia]

In a serious site this talk just wouldn't have occured. John Williams writes music for the popular blockbusters of Steven Spieldberg, for crying out loud. And to ask if it counts as classical music is just as preposterous as asking if a suburban shopping center in places like Kansas or Iowa counts as a Rare Book Shop.

Next thing you know people will ask if the novels of Michael Crichton deserve to be placed on a foot of equality with the plays of William Shakespeare - and then answer: yes! 

Maybe you can find a serious site to frequent, then.

[Sandra]

The music is enjoyable, some of it even has development. But it just wasn't designed to satisfy a listener with ears ready for Shostakovich or Sibelius, Bartok or Hindemith. Just the fact that it was written for a movie tells us that the content is limited to images and association. Don't expect something like the Symphony of Psalms or anything.

[Philoctetes]

The music is enjoyable, some of it even has development. But it just wasn't designed to satisfy a listener with ears ready for Shostakovich or Sibelius, Bartok or Hindemith. Just the fact that it was written for a movie tells us that the content is limited to images and association. Don't expect something like the Symphony of Psalms or anything.

That seems like really weak reasoning with the answer already suspected before the end.

[jochanaan]

In a serious site this talk just wouldn't have occured. John Williams writes music for the popular blockbusters of Steven Spieldberg, for crying out loud. And to ask if it counts as classical music is just as preposterous as asking if a suburban shopping center in places like Kansas or Iowa counts as a Rare Book Shop.

Next thing you know people will ask if the novels of Michael Crichton deserve to be placed on a foot of equality with the plays of William Shakespeare - and then answer: yes! 

Your premise shows how little you know about academic studies.  Everything is fair game.  Just recently a University of Colorado professor brought out The Anthology of Rap, a serious academic anthology of this most earthy of popular art forms.

There are also Rare Book Shops in some suburban shopping malls.

And Michael Crichton is a fine popular writer!

[Scarpia]

As a matter of fact I know more about Academic studies than you do. After graduating Summa Cum Laude I acquired three MA's (English & French Literature + European History), and earned a Ph.D from two top 10 Universities that I will not name for reasons of privacy. That an academic would acquire a rap anthology is irrelevant to this conversation; if that Academic, however, claims Rap counts as Classical Music then that Academic would only remind us that there is much incompetence in the schools, and much disingenuousness as well. Nor is it relevant whether Crishton is or is not a fine writer; what is relevant is that he is indeed a popular, not a classic, writer and no one who wants to be respected where respect matters would commit such a preposterous thing as include him in the same group as Jane Austen or Thomas Hardy or James Joyce. As for Rare Book Stores in a commercial mall, well, I for one have never seen any. And before the age of internet sales I travelled a lot for books and records: to me, always a better holiday than beaches or gambling or cruises or what have you. But I would not think much of the business sense of a rare book dealer who'd rent a shop next to stores like Gap or Hot Topic as that is just not where he is likely to get sufficient business to survive in the Book trade. And if you are still insistent in counting John Williams as classical music you just might as well count Liberace as Classical music as Star Wars is closer to that kind of popular enternaiment, than to the great composers Williams has plagiarized.

My, my 3 MAs and 2 PhDs, and your arguments still do not rise far above "Is not!  Is too!  Is not! Is too!"  Maybe another PhD or two will help!   

[karlhenning]

. . .   Maybe another PhD or two will help!

I am not sanguine ...

[jochanaan]

And one wonders why toucan hesitates to name the universities.  As for me, my Bachelor's in Music Education is from Mid-America Nazarene University, and they would not hesitate to claim me as an alumnus if you asked them.

But here is the real difficulty as I see it:  Most of us probably recognize that the very term "classical music" is both inaccurate and insufficient.  Obviously it cannot refer only to music by Dead Masters, since many living musicians write music that uses forms similar to those from the past (although the language and style may differ greatly).  But some here seem to think that "classical music" is in an entirely different genus than "popular" or other non-classical musics.  If we begin to accept that certain composers for film (not necessarily Mr. Williams) have written music (for film or not) that deserves as much admiration, respect and even love as that of other accepted "Classical Composers," then it calls their very definitions into question.  And we all know how that can threaten one's sense of personhood.

(Am I alone in noticing that, in general, the professional or semipro musicians among us, such as myself, are mostly less resistant to such definition-changing?  We've played, had to play in many cases, all kinds of musics and have had to face the challenges that a film score can pose. )