Male-Female friendships

[zamyrabyrd]

don't get caught in the 'friend zone' when you don't want to be. Lots of miserably de-masculated/feminized men out there acting like a woman's lap dog. Sorry about the vitriol, but I am so tired of ending up the 'friend',... especially with the 'wow, this girl is more interesting than the rest'. I am just sick of this fem-biased society. Where are the real men?

I ask the same question too. However, if it makes you feel better, I don't like lap-dog men either. (A very close family member does, but I won't say who she is.)

Was there an atomic bomb before women started getting their 'rights'?
Was there rap music before women started getting their 'rights'?
Nixon? AIDS? Milli Vanilli? 9/11?

What "rights" are you talking about? The right to vote, to practice professions formerly reserved for men, to get an equal salary for the same work? Correlation is not necessarily causation. And I am not a fan of reverse discrimination either.

ZB

[Brian]

That sounds kinda scary - although if she took the ego hit to get back into contact with you, she is probably serious about remaining on good terms and if you go into it with low expectations it might work out nicely.

That's what I thought, and I was sufficiently humbled to agree to such a low-expectations reboot, but her own expectations were too high, it appears. After I had sent a few "England is amazing!" e-mails and forwarded a link or two, I forgot about it for a couple weeks and then got a huffy e-mail saying "I didn't think it would be like this. You obviously don't care. It's over." She unfriended me on Facebook too.

Which reminds me, Cato, deleting a friend is often easier on Facebook too!

(Sara, your small friend circle might be understandable... there are probably only 3 other people your age in your hometown anyway.  )

Snyprrr is not alone in being aghast at the "war on boys" which has occurred in the last generation.  The feminization of the kulcher has become pervasive: too often there are stories of moron teachers/principals/educational bureaucrats/parents/etc. wringing their hands and calling in psychiatrists and even the police because a 9-year old boy acted...like a 9-year old boy!

That reminds me of the invention of the term 'ADD' - I've only just read that the psychiatrists writing the DSM-V have decided ADD is too contaminated by the general perception that it might not be a real disorder, and will be inventing an altogether new euphemism for it. I also read (this was in the New York Review of Books) that two-year-olds are being diagnosed with bipolar disorder; it seems the reason "men will be boys" is that boys can't be boys... and toddlers can't be boys either 

[Brian]

What "rights" are you talking about? The right to vote, to practice professions formerly reserved for men, to get an equal salary for the same work? Correlation is not necessarily causation. And I am not a fan of reverse discrimination either.

ZB

I'm sure he can't really believe that women's rights caused the atomic bomb. Can he?

[ibanezmonster]

Brian, I've encountered two of those rare beasts that you describe - they are awesome, aren't they? One of my female friends has a very male-oriented psyche (myself too, to some degree) which puts her socially in quite high demand - it's neat to watch the process of her making friends with a guy, him realising after a while that she's not looking to date him, him sometimes getting annoyed by this, then being happy to be in that friend-zone because she's more interesting to him than any of the women he's met before.

I see what you mean- it's nice to see examples of this, because it's rare (and doesn't make them any less feminine). When a female is actually interested in the same things as a male is, it's like something special to guys.

[zamyrabyrd]

I'm sure he can't really believe that women's rights caused the atomic bomb. Can he?

I don't know what is meant by those statements either, so that is why I am asking...

ZB

[springrite]

I see what you mean- it's nice to see examples of this, because it's rare (and doesn't make them any less feminine). When a female is actually interested in the same things as a male is, it's like something special to guys.

It is really not that rare. But we often dismiss the other person for other reasons.

[karlhenning]

I'm sure he can't really believe that women's rights caused the atomic bomb. Can he?

As I have thought more than once when reading a snyppsss post . . . he cannot possibly be serious ; )

[ibanezmonster]

I like men who don't feel the need to overpower people and I like women who are forward and not subservient. "Bro culture" creeps me the hell out.

I'm with ya here. Jersey Shore sums this up, basically. Stupid people.

It is really not that rare. But we often dismiss the other person for other reasons.

Well, if you look at male/female ratios of certain things... this forum, my computer programming class, etc.
And if you go youtube and look some of the female guitars posting videos "attempting to shred" and see all of the thousands of views and comments, "OMG! A female playing this type of music!" or tons of polite critiques, whereas if a guy played like that it just wouldn't quite be the same.
I've got just over 100 views on my video- if I were an attractive girl playing the same thing, I'm sure I would get thousands.

[Cato]

That's what I thought, and I was sufficiently humbled to agree to such a low-expectations reboot, but her own expectations were too high, it appears. After I had sent a few "England is amazing!" e-mails and forwarded a link or two, I forgot about it for a couple weeks and then got a huffy e-mail saying "I didn't think it would be like this. You obviously don't care. It's over." She unfriended me on Facebook too.]

Which reminds me, Cato, deleting a friend is often easier on Facebook too!

On the Internet, everything is easier!   

That reminds me of the invention of the term 'ADD' - I've only just read that the psychiatrists writing the DSM-V have decided ADD is too contaminated by the general perception that it might not be a real disorder, and will be inventing an altogether new euphemism for it. I also read (this was in the New York Review of Books) that two-year-olds are being diagnosed with bipolar disorder; it seems the reason "men will be boys" is that boys can't be boys... and toddlers can't be boys either

The politicization of science becomes frightening very quickly: witness the Soviet Russians, who used the phrase "mental illness" as a way to eliminate critics, as well as the present-day Chinese Communists.

One excellent book on the latter subject: Dangerous Minds: Political Psychiatry in China Today by Robin Munro.

What a phrase: "political psychiatry."   

[zamyrabyrd]

That reminds me of the invention of the term 'ADD' - I've only just read that the psychiatrists writing the DSM-V have decided ADD is too contaminated by the general perception that it might not be a real disorder, and will be inventing an altogether new euphemism for it. I also read (this was in the New York Review of Books) that two-year-olds are being diagnosed with bipolar disorder; it seems the reason "men will be boys" is that boys can't be boys... and toddlers can't be boys either 

The above may very well answer the question posed by snyprr: "where all the men are". I must admit that I don't like pantsuited women on the order of Hilary Clinton. That's what we get instead, a nanny state, when the boys are trained out of being boys and militant feminism rules.

ZB

[snyprrr]

Definitely not - I'm happy to poke fun at my own gender where I see it's lacking. Snyprrr should try this sometimes

I don't go for a lot of 'boy' stuff,... and, if I think the stereotypes on your side are bad,... hey, you girls didn't invent treme Football, did you? Men are usually the ones found with blood dripping from their fangs, and I am sorry that 'manly' men tend to go for subjugation,... however, nerds are funny!

The fact is ANY woman is going to get a guy before I even get a phone # (and, I dare say, it's not because I shouldn't be able to),... it's just the fact,...

'The little boy chides the little girl: "Haha, I've got one of 'these',...haha." Then the little girls quips back, "Yea, but I have one of 'these', and with it, I can get all of those I want"'

Maybe thousands of years ago the penis was in charge, but since I've been counting oh, I weary of gender issues,... just the fact that we're talking about this rather than the criminals stealing our future, 'they' have won in that we discuss issues that won't matter if we don't take care of the more important things. Hey, if Western Civ crumbles, I think the niceties that men have learned this last century will disappear.

ugh, I feel sullied...

btw Lethe,... aren't you hangin around a classical music site, where one would think the more thoughtful/meaningful guys would be hangin at? How many hot babes do you count here? Sure, I wish the world were replete with Xenakis lovin' babes, but, 'babes' tend not to go for Xenakis (I know, I don't get it either ). If you're a music lover, you probably have oodles of great guys out there with no other shot (I'm not saying you, alone, will save us ALL!!!).

Yea, no, I can't seem to find ANY female that will discuss the finer point of what I like (just because it's her bag). No, not my female 'friends',... no, they're still basically women, and when I challenge them to, say, Xenakis, well, they just say, 'You'll never get laid listening to thaaat crap!'


And, to the response that my plight makes me sound immature, well, so be it. "It is not good that man should be alone." Words that truly haunt my world.

Sorry, I won't settle for mail order either.


ugh,... I helplessly can't stop writing. Once my 'weenie-boy' button has been pushed, I will end up groveling before you until all your respect for me lies in scorched grease stain on the floor. Oh baby pleeeeeze, pleeez don't leave,..woo hoo hoo...

ack,... disgusting


oh,... what,... oh, no, this is not some thing that I obsess about or anything...

[Lethevich]

btw Lethe,... aren't you hangin around a classical music site, where one would think the more thoughtful/meaningful guys would be hangin at? How many hot babes do you count here? Sure, I wish the world were replete with Xenakis lovin' babes, but, 'babes' tend not to go for Xenakis (I know, I don't get it either ). If you're a music lover, you probably have oodles of great guys out there with no other shot (I'm not saying you, alone, will save us ALL!!!).

I'm here for the same reason that many others are: because the people I hang with in real life (mostly female) don't like classical, and I need a discussion fix. It's only a small part of what I look for in a person, so if it can be simply remedied by an internet forum it's nothing to be too concerned about

I notice that women tend not to get as obsessive with their hobbies as guys do - and this is one of the many personality traits that I feel I have more in common with males with than my own gender due to various shades of OCD and autism that I'm shot with - but personal taste is still a relatively small area in relationships, and there is that hackneyed line that opposites attract, which remains true to some degree... I'd much rather have a nice person who disliked music than a jerk who loved the same stuff that I do.

[Mirror Image]

Let me say that my last post was meant as a joke. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a woman as a friend. In fact, it will give you a bit more insight into the way women think and this can ultimately help you find someone you're compatible with. I've got a few female friends and they're actually some of the funniest people I know. I think if anybody has a problem with being friends with the opposite sex then there's definitely something wrong, because there's nothing like hearing a woman's opinion whether wanted or not. In most cases, I admire a woman's brute honesty when it comes time to give it.

Oh, and I would still do Yasmine Bleeth.

[ibanezmonster]

I don't go for a lot of 'boy' stuff,... and, if I think the stereotypes on your side are bad,... hey, you girls didn't invent treme Football, did you? Men are usually the ones found with blood dripping from their fangs, and I am sorry that 'manly' men tend to go for subjugation,... however, nerds are funny!

The fact is ANY woman is going to get a guy before I even get a phone # (and, I dare say, it's not because I shouldn't be able to),... it's just the fact,...

'The little boy chides the little girl: "Haha, I've got one of 'these',...haha." Then the little girls quips back, "Yea, but I have one of 'these', and with it, I can get all of those I want"'

Maybe thousands of years ago the penis was in charge, but since I've been counting oh, I weary of gender issues,... just the fact that we're talking about this rather than the criminals stealing our future, 'they' have won in that we discuss issues that won't matter if we don't take care of the more important things. Hey, if Western Civ crumbles, I think the niceties that men have learned this last century will disappear.

ugh, I feel sullied...

btw Lethe,... aren't you hangin around a classical music site, where one would think the more thoughtful/meaningful guys would be hangin at? How many hot babes do you count here? Sure, I wish the world were replete with Xenakis lovin' babes, but, 'babes' tend not to go for Xenakis (I know, I don't get it either ). If you're a music lover, you probably have oodles of great guys out there with no other shot (I'm not saying you, alone, will save us ALL!!!).

Yea, no, I can't seem to find ANY female that will discuss the finer point of what I like (just because it's her bag). No, not my female 'friends',... no, they're still basically women, and when I challenge them to, say, Xenakis, well, they just say, 'You'll never get laid listening to thaaat crap!'


And, to the response that my plight makes me sound immature, well, so be it. "It is not good that man should be alone." Words that truly haunt my world.

Sorry, I won't settle for mail order either.


ugh,... I helplessly can't stop writing. Once my 'weenie-boy' button has been pushed, I will end up groveling before you until all your respect for me lies in scorched grease stain on the floor. Oh baby pleeeeeze, pleeez don't leave,..woo hoo hoo...

ack,... disgusting


oh,... what,... oh, no, this is not some thing that I obsess about or anything...

James Joyce (yet again) told me he likes this post.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

If you're incapable of having a strictly platonic friend of the opposite sex, you might still be in high school.

Or you might be a member of the Taliban, or a Saudi (secretly having gay sex all the time), LOL 

On a serious note, what in your opinion, constitutes an "emotional affair" or "emotional cheating"??

[Brian]

I'd much rather have a nice person who disliked music than a jerk who loved the same stuff that I do.

Oh, yes, you can convert a new music lover but there's no such thing as an ex-jerk.*

*Actually this is false. One of my very good friends is an ex-jerk. His asinine girlfriend cheated (physically) on him, he realized he was wasting his time in the broadest existential Life Is Short sense, had a religious conversion, and actually became an awesome human. I've never seen anything like it. The religious conversion, it should be noted, came slightly after the halfway point of the Transformative Crisis. It's given him a ground to plant his new-person flag in but it wasn't the biggest factor, I think... I'm very, very glad to know him because he is a constant reminder to me that people really can change if they try.

[Lethevich]

I've also encountered one person like that - a huge change in attitude, although I only knew them online so who knows how genuine it was. It takes guts to apologise for previous actions.

@Valkyrie: I don't know if anybody else takes the categorisation as seriously as I do. I class an emotional affair as allowing yourself to, or to be wooed by another in the context of a friendship rather than a relationship. Physical contact is not neccessary, it's allowing sparks to be kindled into something bigger, and the consequent betrayal of the spouse who is being emotionally sidelined. These tend to start in a very small way but due to a weakness or ignorance in the individual, each slight increase in meaning between the "cheating" individuals is disregarded as a small thing, when in reality it's setting up the inevitable groundwork for a damaged marriage. I'm sure that some people even convince themselves that by not having intimate physical contact with their new interest that they are doing no wrong, but that couldn't be more incorrect - they covertly neglected or outright sabotaged a relationship to hop onto another. While many of those liaisons do end in divoce, the ones that don't still engender the guilt of a full-blown affair, and so shouldn't be considered as much different - if it feels shameful to admit then it wrong. The substantial difference between this and a simple close friendship is that in the affair, the "friend" takes on the psychological role of the lover - effort is made to please and impress them, and consequently the existing partner is belittled.

If this sounds like a whinge, it is - I dislike how dishonest and disrespectful human minds are, and how so much social interaction is just power games. It's also totally unrelated to your question, but nothing can stop my whining, NOTHING!

[karlhenning]

Cain't stop da whine!

[Cato]

James Joyce (yet again) told me he likes this post.

Herr Doktor Freud finds Snyprrr reeeaaalllyyyy fascinating!   

Throughout the decades I have had female colleagues at my schools latch onto me, which never happened when I was single!   

Most recently, a 30-something Second Grade teacher, younger than my daughter, was monitoring the cafeteria with me, and began to unload her marital problems!  It seems her husband is a fireman, who obviously has some stress in his life, and works some long shifts.

They have 3 children, and he apparently does little to nothing around the house: he sits and surfs the Internet or watches TV, while she changes diapers, dusts the furniture, runs after the 3-year old, cooks supper, etc. etc. etc. and then needs to grade papers, plan classroom projects, etc. etc. etc.

"...and then he expects me to get all lovey-dovey with him at night!!! Well! I told him he had better...!!!"            

Okay, so perhaps she sees me as a father-figure who could help her with her throwback husband.  Or as someone who could come by and smack some sense into him, which I offered to do!  Certainly I did not think we were well enough acquainted for such a conversation!

(I gave her some advice on how to approach him: things have improved.)

Anyway, I have become the confidante of several lady colleagues throughout the years.  Perhaps it is because of my wise advice!         But the "friendship" never went beyond school: there were no invitations or phone calls, and things were silent during the summer.  And if I left the school, everyone vanished forever.

In earlier years my wife at times bristled a bit, when I relayed such conversations, but she seems much more secure these days about such matters.   0:)

[snyprrr]

If it weren't for booze, I'd still be a virgin.