Ten greatest (not 'favourite') 20th Century composers.

Started by vandermolen, October 03, 2013, 01:14:42 PM

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vandermolen

Mahler
Sibelius
Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Vaughan Williams
Honegger
Holmboe
Tubin
Copland
Braga Santos
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

You mean as in "having their most significant works written in that century(ref Mahler)"?

I would add Bartok, Ligeti, Nielsen and Webern and ditch your four last (not that there is something wrong with them).

DavidW

Schoenberg
Berg
Webern
Stravinsky
Shostakovich
Bartok
Sibelius
Nielsen
Vaughan Williams
Prokofiev

North Star

Your (op) list looks more like a 'favourite' list to me, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Avoiding all previously (before David) mentioned:

Janacek
Stravinsky
Schoenberg
Berg
Ravel
Debussy
Britten
Messiaen
Carter
Pärt
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

The new erato

Quote from: The new erato on October 03, 2013, 01:20:32 PM
You mean as in "having their most significant works written in that century(ref Mahler)"?

I would add Bartok, Ligeti, Nielsen and Webern and ditch your four last (not that there is something wrong with them).
And of course I would add Stravinsky pushing out Honegger.

DavidW

I should have had Debussy on my list.  I wasn't thinking.  I guess he would replace Nielsen.  Ravel is one of the greats, but finding room for him is a tricky proposition.

The new erato

Quote from: DavidW on October 03, 2013, 01:32:57 PM
I should have had Debussy on my list.  I wasn't thinking.  I guess he would replace Nielsen. 
You're right. This is why I usually don't participate in threads like this.

Sergeant Rock

Based on originality and influence mostly. The last pick may seem odd but film music was a huge musical part of the 20th Century. I picked no one from the second half of the century. Too early to pick a "great," I think; too early to know if composers like Ligetti, Boulez, Stockhausen will still be played 50 years from now (they are barely played now).

Mahler
Bartok
Debussy
Stravinsky
Schoenberg
Webern
Sibelius
Shostakovich
Janacek
Bernard Herrmann


Favorites:

Havergal Brian
Mahler
Vaughan Williams
Shostakovich
Nielsen
Strauss
Schmidt
Schoenberg
Sibelius
Prokofiev
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

kyjo

I'll do greatest and favorites:

Greatest:

Sibelius
Schoenberg
Janacek
Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Ives
Bartok
Stravinsky
VW
Debussy
Ravel
(I would categorize Mahler as late-romantic, otherwise I would have included him)

Favorites:

Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Nielsen
Sibelius
VW
Bartok
Debussy
Ravel
Braga Santos
Atterberg


kyjo

Quote from: vandermolen on October 03, 2013, 01:14:42 PM
Mahler
Sibelius
Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Vaughan Williams
Honegger
Holmboe
Tubin
Copland
Braga Santos

You sure those aren't your favorites? ;)

kyjo

Quote from: kyjo on October 03, 2013, 03:24:58 PM
I'll do greatest and favorites:

Greatest:

Sibelius
Schoenberg
Janacek
Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Ives
Bartok
Stravinsky
VW
Debussy
Ravel
(I would categorize Mahler as late-romantic, otherwise I would have included him)

Looking back on my list, I should have probably included Webern, although I have never liked his music. There's no doubting his influence on a lot of late-20th century composers. I guess I'll replace Janacek with Webern. :-\

Karl Henning

Quote from: DavidW on October 03, 2013, 01:32:57 PM
I should have had Debussy on my list.  I wasn't thinking.  I guess he would replace Nielsen.

Much as I love Nielsen, you are dead right here, Davey.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

#12
Quote from: kyjo on October 03, 2013, 03:24:58 PM
I'll do greatest and favorites:

Greatest:

Sibelius
Schoenberg
Janacek
Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Ives
Bartok
Stravinsky
VW
Debussy
Ravel

Highly though I think of Ives (and of course, native pride would love for an American to be on such a list), I don't think we can really make the case for his necessary inclusion in the Ten Greatest here.

Edit :: typo
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

The interesting thing about this thread, is that really the posts ought to trend towards a consensus . . . unlike the typical favorites thread, which basically plays out in a "those are your ten, great, here are my ten" manner (— not that there's anything wrong with that —) so that, given time, practically every composer who worked in the 20th century will eventually have been mentioned.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Christo

Yet, in the end, personal favourites are always at the base of the idea of greatness. At least in my list:

Debussy (Mahler is indeed late-romantic)
Nielsen
Falla
Janáček
Vaughan Williams
Bartók
Stravinsky
Shostakovich
Holmboe
Pärt
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Karl Henning

Quote from: Christo on October 04, 2013, 04:17:39 AM
Yet, in the end, personal favourites are always at the base of the idea of greatness.

Again, we agree to disagree  ;)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Okay, so make the case for de Falla being a greater composer than (to choose one which dropped off your list) Schoenberg.  I promise to find your argument musically interesting  :)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

kyjo

Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2013, 03:58:01 AM
Highly though I think of Ives (and of course, native pride would love for an American to be on such a list), I don't think we can really make the case for his necessary inclusion in the Ten Greatest here.

Edit :: typo

Why not, Karl? Ives was way ahead of his time-wouldn't that make him "great"?

Karl Henning

Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2013, 04:58:31 AM
Why not, Karl? Ives was way ahead of his time-wouldn't that make him "great"?

I don't quarrel with Ives's being great, I don't know that his accomplishment drives his inclusion in the Ten Greatest of the Century.

There is also the matter (consider it hearsay, since I've not done the research/reading myself, yet) that some of his ahead-of-time features were later revisions.

I suppose my core point here is that there were enough genuinely outstanding composers in the 20th century, that the Ten Greatest suffer no "cloud of question."  And with our mighty New Englander . . . it's complicated.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Christo

Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2013, 04:29:07 AM
Okay, so make the case for de Falla being a greater composer than (to choose one which dropped off your list) Schoenberg.  I promise to find your argument musically interesting  :)

;) Actually, I find de Falla musically interesting.
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948