hate keeps a man alive

[amw]

This puts me in an extreme minority in worldwide terms, and I don't have any idea how my tastes came to be shaped in this way, but I do not like any music characterised by a repetitive beat or groove. Nor have I ever found strophic songs (verse - chorus - verse - etc) particularly appealing. Finally, I dislike the "epic", hyper-romantic, emotionally force-fed John Williams/Mahler/Carmina Burana kind of thing, and will turn it off if I hear it.

However I do not need to 'hate' any of these things—I just don't listen to them... It would probably be different if I watched films or TV (where such things are omnipresent) or had to make a lot of telephone calls to tech support places, but as it is I'm only exposed to them in shops and the like where they're easy to tune out. I watch youtube videos with the sound off as a rule (since for some reason people have to put a soundtrack to everything these days). Very little that falls into any of those categories has ever become familiar enough to rise to the level of dislike; it all blends together into a mass of apathy. (Carmina Burana being one of the few exceptions)

[Mirror Image]

I think there's high quality music in any genre. Since I listen, and love, rock, jazz, and classical, there's certainly a lot of choose from, but I have found my tastes in rock and jazz are pretty specific and I've been able to wade through the junk with a greater ease than classical music.

[Ken B]

Since I'm feeling particularly alive right now ..

All these boxes ... "rap", "country", "rock" et al. .. are just a bundle of sickening cliches really, especially at this point in time .. that is all you get. Folks molding themselves into these limited parameters and sound vocabularies for all the wrong reasons. It has nothing to do with the art form. They go into it to be famous, it's all phoney. And most of it regardless of the boxes people like to put the stuff in, thinkin' they are all over the map and diverse musically .. when truthfully it isn't all that musically diverse or different at all, and more often than not its all coming from that same place ..

I used to make that point to people. All the music you guys listen to was written by people in English speaking countries within the span of a few decades for small groups of the same instruments usually for 2 to 5 minutes in length in the same harmonic system and little counterpoint. I listen to music from 5 continents over 800 years in many languages or none, of wildly varying length and ensemble, some religious, in different relgions, in various harmonic systems, with from one to 9 main lines.  And yet you say I'm the one with narrow tastes ...

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

... we must acknowledge that they are two of the best songs ever written and their creators, Chuck Berry and Phil Spector, two of the most influential composers in Rock and Pop history

We must? We must? What if I don't? What if I stick with my initial position that they completely and totally suck ass?  Would that make me a horrible person? I hope so! 

Seriously, I have to agree with most of what James says here. I would also add that Coltrane and followers--Albert Ayler, Pharoah Sanders--and others like Anthony Braxton, Sun Ra had about a zillion times more talent than the Beatles and all the stuff they ultimately spawned.

Most people who go around saying they like "all kinds of music" are pretty much total dopes.

[listener]

"You light up my life" - Debby Boone
"These boots are made for walkin'" - Nancy Sinatra

[Sergeant Rock]

If you can't appreciate some '80s pop music, you're probably a bad person. 

I'm a bad good person then. I love quite a few songs produced in the 80s, including these singles released during the decade:

VISAGE   FADE TO GRAY  1980
ORCHESTRAL MANEUVERS IN THE DARK   ENOLA GAY  1980
EMMYLOU HARRIS   with  DON WILLIAMS   IF I NEEDED YOU  1981
DIRE STRAITS   ROMEO AND JULIET  1981
RACHEL SWEET   THEN HE KISSED ME/BE MY BABY  1981
GO GO'S   WE GOT THE BEAT  1981
TONI BASIL   MICKEY  1981
KIM WILDE   KIDS IN AMERICA  1981
DEAD KENNEDYS   TOO DRUNK TO FUCK  1981
ROLLING STONES   START ME UP  1981
FOREIGNER   URGENT  1981
BOW WOW WOW   CHIHUAHUA  1981
BOW WOW WOW   PRINCE OF DARKNESS  1981
BOW WOW WOW   GO WILD IN THE COUNTRY  1982
BOW WOW WOW   I WANT CANDY  1982
BOW WOW WOW   LOUIS QUATORZE  1982
EMMYLOU HARRIS   ROSE OF CIMARRON  1982
DEXY'S MIDNIGHT RUNNERS   COME ON, EILEEN  1982
MARVIN GAYE   SEXUAL HEALING  1982
FLIPPER   SEX BOMB  1982
JOAN JETT   I LOVE ROCK AND ROLL  1982
JOAN JETT   CRIMSON AND CLOVER  1982
JOAN JETT   DO YOU WANNA TOUCH ME?   1982
DEPECHE MODE   SEE YOU  1982
D.A.F.   MUSSOLINI  1982
D.A.F.   KEBAB TRÄUME  1982
GRANDMASTER FLASH AND THE FURIOUS FIVE   THE MESSAGE  1982
THE SPECIALS   GHOST TOWN  1982
GBH   CITY BABY ATTACKED BY RATS  1982
THE PRETENDERS   MY CITY WAS GONE  1982
THE PRETENDERS   MIDDLE OF THE ROAD  1983
CYNDI LAUPER   GIRLS JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN  1983
DAVID BOWIE   LET'S DANCE  1983
BOW WOW WOW   DO YOU WANNA HOLD ME  1983
MICHAEL STANLEY BAND   MY TOWN  1983
YAZOO   DON'T GO  1983
SERGE AND CHARLOTTE GAINSBOURG   LEMON INCEST  1984
CYNDI LAUPER   TIME AFTER TIME  1984
RUN D.M.C.   HARD TIMES  1984
EMMYLOU HARRIS   TIMBERLINE  1985
DON HENLEY   THE BOYS OF SUMMER  1985
THE BANGLES   WALK LIKE AN EGYPTIAN  1985
RUN D.M.C.   WALK THIS WAY  1986
LEONARD COHEN   TAKE THIS WALTZ 1986
GRATEFUL DEAD   A TOUCH OF GREY  1987
THE BANGLES   HAZY SHADE OF WINTER  1987
PETER GABRIEL AND KATE BUSH   DON'T GIVE UP  1987
DWIGHT YOAKAM AND BUCK OWENS   STREETS OF BAKERSFIELD  1988
EMMYLOU HARRIS with DOLLY PARTON & LINDA RONSTADT   TO KNOW HIM IS TO LOVE HIM  1988
TANITA TIKARAM   TWIST IN MY SOBRIETY  1988
NANCE GRIFFITH   FROM A DISTANCE  1988
ROY ORBISON   YOU GOT IT  1989
B-52'S   ROAM  1989


Bad, Bad Sarge, the Good

[Sergeant Rock]

We must? We must? What if I don't? What if I stick with my initial position that they completely and totally suck ass?  Would that make me a horrible person? I hope so! 

No, it just means you have absolutely no ability to discern good rock/pop/soul from crap. You're musically blind...and proud of it    You're kin to the classical music hater who says the Eroica or Tristan or the Goldbergs suck ass.

Sarge

[Szykneij]

Most people who go around saying they like "all kinds of music" are pretty much total dopes.

I must be pretty low on the intelligence scale, then, because I do enjoy most types of music, and I at least try to understand the kinds of music that I don't.

For those who appreciate and listen to only classical music, there's nothing wrong with that. There are many lifetimes of options in that genre. But you can't compare other types of music using classical standards. That's an exercise in ignorance.

exactly.a lot of the songs that have been named in this thread I find to be perfectly bland and inoffensive and some of them I even like! But I don't think of them in the same way that I think of Mozart or Mahler.  they entertain or pass the time of day. I don't expect any great revelations from them like I do from classical music.

Exactly².

The fact that I can appreciate and enjoy a five course meal from a fine restaurant doesn't diminish my ability to savor a taco or hot dog from a fast food place. I'm just sensible enough to not expect the same experience.

It's sad that there is arrogance and elitism among champions of every type of music. I've probably heard "I hate pop music because it all sounds the same" as much as I've heard "I hate classical music because it all sounds the same". I can cut those with the latter opinion more slack because at least they probably don't have the experience and capacity to understand the complexities of classical. I have to wonder about someone claims to appreciate classical music but can't differentiate between the less complex elements of other genres.

Since no one else is shy about throwing out blanket statements here about what sucks and what doesn't, and pigeonholing others into various categories, I will offer a personal opinion formed by many years of experience and reinforced by many years of reading this forum:

People who claim to only like classical music and denigrate all other forms of music are only concerned with academic and technical  elements of the genre (and the perceived superiority that comes along with them) and lack the capacity to be emotionally affected by music on a less conscious level.

[Karl Henning]

The mere readiness to sneer at 95% of what is out there does not mean that one is refined.  But, we all knew that.

[Cato]

Most people who go around saying they like "all kinds of music" are pretty much total dopes.

I am reminded of one of the Big Band leaders (Duke Ellington, I think) who divided Music into two kinds: good and bad.

No other subdivisions allowed!

I'm a bad person then. I love quite a few songs produced in the 80s, including these singles released during the decade:

Bad, Bad Sarge

The rule at GMG is: Sarge is right!  Sarge is always right!

[Sergeant Rock]

This is worse if, like me, you love a fair amount of country music

https://www.youtube.com/v/WySgNm8qH-I

Both funny and depressing. This reminds me of how depressing the Country Music Countdown has been for the last 15, 20 years. Mrs. Rock and I sometimes listen via the Armed Forces Network, hoping the situation will improve. But no, the decent into bland sameness and formula goes on unabated. Of course there is great country being made...it just doesn't make it to the airwaves.

Sarge

[Philo]

This is the only song that makes me physically ill to hear:

"I will sing of your love forever"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NraSpL4iGuE

[Ken B]

I'm a bad person then. I love quite a few songs produced in the 80s, including these singles released during the decade:

VISAGE   FADE TO GRAY  1980
ORCHESTRAL MANEUVERS IN THE DARK   ENOLA GAY  1980
EMMYLOU HARRIS   with  DON WILLIAMS   IF I NEEDED YOU  1981
DIRE STRAITS   ROMEO AND JULIET  1981
RACHEL SWEET   THEN HE KISSED ME/BE MY BABY  1981
GO GO'S   WE GOT THE BEAT  1981
TONI BASIL   MICKEY  1981
KIM WILDE   KIDS IN AMERICA  1981
DEAD KENNEDYS   TOO DRUNK TO FUCK  1981
ROLLING STONES   START ME UP  1981
FOREIGNER   URGENT  1981
BOW WOW WOW   CHIHUAHUA  1981
BOW WOW WOW   PRINCE OF DARKNESS  1981
BOW WOW WOW   GO WILD IN THE COUNTRY  1982
BOW WOW WOW   I WANT CANDY  1982
BOW WOW WOW   LOUIS QUATORZE  1982
EMMYLOU HARRIS   ROSE OF CIMARRON  1982
DEXY'S MIDNIGHT RUNNERS   COME ON, EILEEN  1982
MARVIN GAYE   SEXUAL HEALING  1982
FLIPPER   SEX BOMB  1982
JOAN JETT   I LOVE ROCK AND ROLL  1982
JOAN JETT   CRIMSON AND CLOVER  1982
JOAN JETT   DO YOU WANNA TOUCH ME?   1982
DEPECHE MODE   SEE YOU  1982
D.A.F.   MUSSOLINI  1982
D.A.F.   KEBAB TRÄUME  1982
GRANDMASTER FLASH AND THE FURIOUS FIVE   THE MESSAGE  1982
THE SPECIALS   GHOST TOWN  1982
GBH   CITY BABY ATTACKED BY RATS  1982
THE PRETENDERS   MY CITY WAS GONE  1982
THE PRETENDERS   MIDDLE OF THE ROAD  1983
CYNDI LAUPER   GIRLS JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN  1983
DAVID BOWIE   LET'S DANCE  1983
BOW WOW WOW   DO YOU WANNA HOLD ME  1983
MICHAEL STANLEY BAND   MY TOWN  1983
YAZOO   DON'T GO  1983
SERGE AND CHARLOTTE GAINSBOURG   LEMON INCEST  1984
CYNDI LAUPER   TIME AFTER TIME  1984
RUN D.M.C.   HARD TIMES  1984
EMMYLOU HARRIS   TIMBERLINE  1985
DON HENLEY   THE BOYS OF SUMMER  1985
THE BANGLES   WALK LIKE AN EGYPTIAN  1985
RUN D.M.C.   WALK THIS WAY  1986
LEONARD COHEN   TAKE THIS WALTZ 1986
GRATEFUL DEAD   A TOUCH OF GREY  1987
THE BANGLES   HAZY SHADE OF WINTER  1987
PETER GABRIEL AND KATE BUSH   DON'T GIVE UP  1987
DWIGHT YOAKAM AND BUCK OWENS   STREETS OF BAKERSFIELD  1988
EMMYLOU HARRIS with DOLLY PARTON & LINDA RONSTADT   TO KNOW HIM IS TO LOVE HIM  1988
TANITA TIKARAM   TWIST IN MY SOBRIETY  1988
NANCE GRIFFITH   FROM A DISTANCE  1988
ROY ORBISON   YOU GOT IT  1989
B-52'S   ROAM  1989


Bad, Bad Sarge

Sarge. I don't want to deny you are a bad person, you know best, but I think you misread.
"If you can't appreciate some '80s pop music, you're probably a bad person"
And you apparently can.

[Sergeant Rock]

"If you can't appreciate some '80s pop music, you're probably a bad person"
And you apparently can.

That'll teach me to work at the computer without my glasses    I'm so thankful to know I'm really a good person afterall 

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

I must be pretty low on the intelligence scale, then, because I do enjoy most types of music, and I at least try to understand the kinds of music that I don't.

For those who appreciate and listen to only classical music, there's nothing wrong with that. There are many lifetimes of options in that genre. But you can't compare other types of music using classical standards. That's an exercise in ignorance.


Exactly².

The fact that I can appreciate and enjoy a five course meal from a fine restaurant doesn't diminish my ability to savor a taco or hot dog from a fast food place. I'm just sensible enough to not expect the same experience.

It's sad that there is arrogance and elitism among champions of every type of music. I've probably heard "I hate pop music because it all sounds the same" as much as I've heard "I hate classical music because it all sounds the same". I can cut those with the latter opinion more slack because at least they probably don't have the experience and capacity to understand the complexities of classical. I have to wonder about someone claims to appreciate classical music but can't differentiate between the less complex elements of other genres.

Since no one else is shy about throwing out blanket statements here about what sucks and what doesn't, and pigeonholing others into various categories, I will offer a personal opinion formed by many years of experience and reinforced by many years of reading this forum:

People who claim to only like classical music and denigrate all other forms of music are only concerned with academic and technical  elements of the genre (and the perceived superiority that comes along with them) and lack the capacity to be emotionally affected by music on a less conscious level.

Enjoyed this entire post, thanks, Tony.

[amw]

For those who appreciate and listen to only classical music, there's nothing wrong with that. There are many lifetimes of options in that genre. But you can't compare other types of music using classical standards. That's an exercise in ignorance.

I'm not sure whether there's any specific criteria that distinguish classical music from other types of music, apart from an "I know it when I hear it" rule.

For example, as a broad rule pop music is modal (based around scales) rather than tonal (based around harmonic progressions), but there are plenty of examples that do in fact use functional harmony rather than the more colouristic I-V-iv-IV loops of infamy (a sequence that in practice can, and does, end on any one of the four chords with no change in musical meaning). As a broad rule, it has a drum kit or machine tapping out a persistent beat, yet lots of country music is just voice and guitar (and I can think of a few art-rock songs that are completely a cappella) and it's still recogniseable as non-classical. Classical music is usually through-composed and longer than three minutes, but then you listen to some Schubert lieder. Et cetera.

As far as the various kinds of pop music go, I think I understand them on a technical level, and I can recognise when it's well done. That which I've heard, however, doesn't do anything for me emotionally, and to a certain extent it's the technical aspects of the style itself that are the cause. Well, okay, my sheer bloody-mindedness is partly the cause as well. The more overtly I'm told to do anything, the stronger my desire seems to become to do the opposite. I can dance to a Beethoven string quartet written to be listened to in silence and devotion, but the mechanical emphasis on every downbeat in a song written to be danced to just annoys me. >.>

[Szykneij]

I'm not sure whether there's any specific criteria that distinguish classical music from other types of music, apart from an "I know it when I hear it" rule.

For example, as a broad rule pop music is modal (based around scales) rather than tonal (based around harmonic progressions), but there are plenty of examples that do in fact use functional harmony rather than the more colouristic I-V-iv-IV loops of infamy (a sequence that in practice can, and does, end on any one of the four chords with no change in musical meaning). As a broad rule, it has a drum kit or machine tapping out a persistent beat, yet lots of country music is just voice and guitar (and I can think of a few art-rock songs that are completely a cappella) and it's still recogniseable as non-classical. Classical music is usually through-composed and longer than three minutes, but then you listen to some Schubert lieder. Et cetera.

As far as the various kinds of pop music go, I think I understand them on a technical level, and I can recognise when it's well done. That which I've heard, however, doesn't do anything for me emotionally, and to a certain extent it's the technical aspects of the style itself that are the cause. Well, okay, my sheer bloody-mindedness is partly the cause as well. The more overtly I'm told to do anything, the stronger my desire seems to become to do the opposite. I can dance to a Beethoven string quartet written to be listened to in silence and devotion, but the mechanical emphasis on every downbeat in a song written to be danced to just annoys me. >.>

Good post!  Clearly, you understand music, know what you like and dislike (and also know why), and acknowledge music that doesn't affect you emotionally has merit and can be well done even though it's not to your taste. I feel the same way, although my specifics might be different than yours.

[amw]

I try to avoid hate . I should add that there's lots of music I don't see very much merit to if any. For instance a few months back I happened to hear one of the week's top 40 hits on the radio, I think it was by Eminem and Rihanna; apart from the juxtaposition of pop- and rap-style vocals (which hip-hop has been doing for decades anyway) I didn't hear anything in it that set it apart from every other pop song one hears on the radio: unmemorable and over-engineered. Yet people seemed to love it (for a couple of weeks anyway, or until the latest Lorde single came out). So... whatever. It only occupied my time for a few minutes, and I suppose the people who enjoy it are after a different kind of musical experience than me, possibly involving singing along while driving, or some special meaning in the lyrics (which I rarely pay much attention to).

[Karl Henning]

I try to avoid hate .

Well, and it is a fascinating thing to reflect on . . . if we "hate" a piece of music intensely, what does it really mean?  What's going on in the corners of our mind?  What emotions are really at play, and what are the actual points of reference for those emotions?

[Sergeant Rock]

I try to avoid hate . I should add that there's lots of music I don't see very much merit to if any. For instance a few months back I happened to hear one of the week's top 40 hits on the radio, I think it was by Eminem and Rihanna; apart from the juxtaposition of pop- and rap-style vocals (which hip-hop has been doing for decades anyway) I didn't hear anything in it that set it apart from every other pop song one hears on the radio: unmemorable and over-engineered.

Like the Top 40 Country, pop radio today is a wasteland and has been for more than a decade. I keep a list of favorite singles by year, beginning with the year of my birth, 1949. The list ends in 2000 with the Corrs' "Breathless." I haven't heard a single "hit" in the last 14 years that has meant anything to me, or even appealed in some small way. Of course I could be suffering from Old Fogeyism. But that usually happens to people at a much younger age; I kept my ears open far longer than most, I think. So maybe music really has gone to hell this century...at least in terms of the most popular music.

Yet people seemed to love it (for a couple of weeks anyway, or until the latest Lorde single came out). So... whatever. It only occupied my time for a few minutes, and I suppose the people who enjoy it are after a different kind of musical experience than me, possibly involving singing along while driving, or some special meaning in the lyrics (which I rarely pay much attention to).

Lyrics are vitally important to pop/rock/soul/country. They can relate to our lives in a way that, for example, the closing scene of Faust in Mahler's Eighth just doesn't in the 21st century.

Sarge