The Classical Chat Thread

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

My British bud is back in town and made good his promise to bring me another issue of Private Eye, the British satire magazine.  In it :

[kishnevi]

I am playing that Sistine Chapel CD now , by serendipity.
The William Byrd Choir still performs
http://www.williambyrdchoir.com/about%20wm%20byrd%20ch.htm
I think their Vatican recordings were done in concert and broadcast on the BBC before being released on LP.  The recordings on this new CD were "studio" recordings, and not in live performance. I think that is what the "first ever" claim refers to.

[Florestan]

According to Todd, Chopin´s piano concertos are just light fluff and not even Zimerman can redeem them.

Might very well be, what do I know?

I do know, though, that I can hardly wait for Todd´s deep, profound and ground-shattering piano concertos to be released.

Meanwhile, some of the great unwashed might enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/v/FOPQn17s5hs

[Todd]

According to Todd, Chopin´s piano concertos are just light fluff and not even Zimerman can redeem them.

I said they were fluff, not that they needed redemption.  They are fine, entertaining, light works, and Zimerman's second recording of the duo is probably the best recording of them I've heard.  They cannot, however, compare to the great PCs of Beethoven or Brahms or Schumann or Bartok or Ravel or Mozart.  I plan on hearing Chopin's First PC in concert this upcoming season, though that's mainly because Benjamin Grosvenor will be the soloist.  Fluff can still be good, unless you view the world in a simplistic, binary way.

[Florestan]

I said they were fluff, not that they needed redemption.  They are fine, entertaining, light works, and Zimerman's second recording of the duo is probably the best recording of them I've heard.  They cannot, however, compare to the great PCs of Beethoven or Brahms or Schumann or Bartok or Ravel or Mozart.  I plan on hearing Chopin's First PC in concert this upcoming season, though that's mainly because Benjamin Grosvenor will be the soloist.  Fluff can still be good, unless you view the world in a simplistic, binary way.

For the time being, the only binary worldview here is exactly yours: a piano concerto is either great or fluff...

Besides, Chopin´s piano concertos --- or indeed anyone´s piano concertos --- stand or fall on their own merits or lack thereof; there is no need to compare them with other concertos. But if comparisons need to be made, I fail to see in what way, or on what points, Chopin´s are inferior to Mozart´s  or Schumann´s or Ravel´s.

Be it as it may and bottom line, the term "fluff" strikes me as highly inaccurate when applied to Chopin. 

[Todd]

For the time being, the only binary worldview here is exactly yours: a piano concerto is either great or fluff...

Nope, not at all.  Chopin's concertos are fluff.  Brahms 1st is a monumental masterpiece.  Beethoven's C Major falls in between.  You see, there's more than two categories out there.  You established a false premise for your "argument".  I get it, you like Chopin's concertos.  It's okay to like fluff.  Really, it is.

[Florestan]

It's okay to like fluff.  Really, it is.

Yes indeed, I like fluff, for instance this:



which is as charming and delightful as fluff can be.

EDIT: Let´s put fluff aside and get to serious business. You are probably the GMG´s leading expert in Beethoven´s piano sonatas, IIRC you own and have listened to some 80+ complete sets. I´d be interested in hearing two completely different approaches: one overtly romantic(ized), warm, passionate, sentimental and mellow, the other one overtly intellectual(ized), cool, dispassionate, unsentimental and severe. Where should I go? Could you please give me the 3 best options for each category? I am not an audiophile so mono or less than stellar sound is not an issue. Many TIA.

[Todd]

You are probably the GMG´s leading expert in Beethoven´s piano sonatas

I would say that aquablob is the real forum expert on Beethoven's piano sonatas, and (poco) Sforzando has far more detailed knowledge of the scores than I do, and could be considered an actual expert.  I've just listened to a lot of recorded cycles, which does not make me an actual expert.  (premont is another good source for comparative listening, as well.)

I don't really break down sonata cycles along intellectual vs romantic approaches, so keep that in mind when considering the following:

Intellectual: Russell Sherman (not severe so much as eccentric); Alfred Brendel II (Philips analog); Maurizio Pollini

Romantic: Annie Fischer; Andrea Lucchesini; Daniel Barenboim (first or third cycles)

[Florestan]

I've just listened to a lot of recorded cycles

That´s exactly what I had in mind.

I don't really break down sonata cycles along intellectual vs romantic approaches, so keep that in mind when considering the following:

Intellectual: Russell Sherman (not severe so much as eccentric); Alfred Brendel II (Philips analog); Maurizio Pollini

Romantic: Annie Fischer; Andrea Lucchesini; Daniel Barenboim (first or third cycles)

Thanks again.

[Brian]

SWR has already removed the Hanssler name from their new releases.

[NikF]

Not sure if this is the correct section to post this in...
A couple of weeks ago my partner went to work in London for a few days. I accompanied her and in the process we were gifted tickets for the Royal Ballet performing Romeo and Juliet at the ROH. While Toots was charmed with it all, I thought the partnership of Sarah Lamb (including her cleft chin, which *could be clearly seen from our seats in the audience) and Steven McRae a little lacking in passion. Or perhaps it was the fact that the music via the conductor Koen Kessels overwhelmed - it seemed to be that he found extra boldness or something, more than I've become accustomed to hearing - which augmented the dancing to a greater degree and made up for the aforementioned lack of passion.

When we returned North it was quickly to Edinburgh for the Scottish Ballet and three pieces, the second of which ('Motion of Displacement') was another where i found myself thinking that the dancing is taking second place to the music - 'Shaker Loops' by the American composer John Adams. I hadn't heard anything quite like that before. I'm not sure where something that's so 'minimalist' fits into my taste, but I found a CD of the work and I'll listen more to see if it leads me somewhere interesting. Anyone familiar with that work and have anything good or bad or insightful to say about it or the composer? Please, do tell.

*here, I have perhaps exaggerated just a little. Heh.

[jlaurson]

...When we returned North it was quickly to Edinburgh for the Scottish Ballet and three pieces, the second of which ('Motion of Displacement') was another where i found myself thinking that the dancing is taking second place to the music - 'Shaker Loops' by the American composer John Adams. I hadn't heard anything quite like that before. I'm not sure where something that's so 'minimalist' fits into my taste, but I found a CD of the work and I'll listen more to see if it leads me somewhere interesting. Anyone familiar with that work and have anything good or bad or insightful to say about it or the composer? Please, do tell.

Shaker Loops is a terrific work; one of Adams' most accessible and most repriseable (if that's a word) next to his Violin Concerto and Fast Ride.

[NikF]

Shaker Loops is a terrific work; one of Adams' most accessible and most repriseable (if that's a word) next to his Violin Concerto and Fast Ride.

Yeah, that's the CD I found. Having read your post I've had a look and there appears to be (via Amazon) a few options for the violin concerto -
Hanslip/Slatkin/RPO on Naxos
McDuffie/Eschenbach/Houston Symphony on Telarc
Josefowitz/Adams/BBC Symphony on BBC
Kremer/Nagano/LSO on Nonesuch.
Any of those you're familiar with or are particularly recommended?

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Personally, I like Chopin's PCs just fine. Criticism is often directed towards "uninteresting" orchestral part. I actually liked the orchestra parts in his concertos more. And Chopin was in his twenties when he composed them (although his life wasn't very long), staggeringly mature works.

[kishnevi]

Yeah, that's the CD I found. Having read your post I've had a look and there appears to be (via Amazon) a few options for the violin concerto -
Hanslip/Slatkin/RPO on Naxos
McDuffie/Eschenbach/Houston Symphony on Telarc
Josefowitz/Adams/BBC Symphony on BBC
Kremer/Nagano/LSO on Nonesuch.
Any of those you're familiar with or are particularly recommended?

Intervening to say Absolute Jest, which is relatively new, and in effect a concerto for string quartet and orchestra, is probably worth your time, if it is available to you. The San Francisco Symphony released it on their own label a few weeks ago;  I don't know if Spotify has it.

On the direct question, I have the Naxos recording of the VC,  and like it, but not enough to want other performances.

[NikF]

Intervening to say Absolute Jest, which is relatively new, and in effect a concerto for string quartet and orchestra, is probably worth your time, if it is available to you. The San Francisco Symphony released it on their own label a few weeks ago;  I don't know if Spotify has it.

On the direct question, I have the Naxos recording of the VC,  and like it, but not enough to want other performances.

Absolute Jest - I'll certainly have a look/listen for that. Thanks.

[jlaurson]

Yeah, that's the CD I found. Having read your post I've had a look and there appears to be (via Amazon) a few options for the violin concerto -
Hanslip/Slatkin/RPO on Naxos
McDuffie/Eschenbach/Houston Symphony on Telarc
Josefowitz/Adams/BBC Symphony on BBC
Kremer/Nagano/LSO on Nonesuch.
Any of those you're familiar with or are particularly recommended?

In the "Surprised by Beauty" chapter on Adams (which could be expanded and broadened, I'm the first one to admit, the four recommendations ("Transmigration" with some qualifiers) are these:

El Niño, Nonesuch
Harmonielehre, Short Ride In A Fast Machine,  / Tilson Thomas, San Francisco Symphony, SFS Media
On The Transmigration Of Souls, Lorin Maazel, NYP, Nonesuch
Concerto for Violin, Robert McDuffie, Christoph Eschenbach, Houston SO, Telarc

I'm fully behind the Violin Concerto recommendation... (despite poor Robert McDuffie's agent being a total prick).

But it's hard to go wrong, actually: Hanslip/Slatkin/RPO on Naxos are very good, too (my second choice) and Kremer/Nagano/LSO as well. Josefowicz with the composer I've not heard but would suspect it of goodness, also.

[NikF]

In the "Surprised by Beauty" chapter on Adams (which could be expanded and broadened, I'm the first one to admit, the four recommendations ("Transmigration" with some qualifiers) are these:

El Niño, Nonesuch
Harmonielehre, Short Ride In A Fast Machine,  / Tilson Thomas, San Francisco Symphony, SFS Media
On The Transmigration Of Souls, Lorin Maazel, NYP, Nonesuch
Concerto for Violin, Robert McDuffie, Christoph Eschenbach, Houston SO, Telarc

I'm fully behind the Violin Concerto recommendation... (despite poor Robert McDuffie's agent being a total prick).

But it's hard to go wrong, actually: Hanslip/Slatkin/RPO on Naxos are very good, too (my second choice) and Kremer/Nagano/LSO as well. Josefowicz with the composer I've not heard but would suspect it of goodness, also.

That's great. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[jlaurson]

Fresh from Forbes:



SEP 29, 2015
Vienna: Premiering Beethoven Symphonies All Over Again

...Comparatively little has been done by way of research into how audiences be-
haved or listened on, or for that matter: where. And whatever has been done,
it hasn't been made visible or audible to audiences in the same way. No matter
how authentic "17th century" the band plays in front of us, audiences still sit on
the other side of the fourth wall as if it were 1977. We treat music from Monteverdi
to Stockhausen as if it were Parsifal. The lights are dimmed, we listen in awed quiet,
are embarrassed if caught snoring, and duly hiss if someone has shown his or her
appreciation at a point that doesn't fit the current convention of when to show
appreciation. (I call those hissers the "Vigilant Applause Police", an odious faction
that happens to overlap considerably with the only slightly less annoying "Eager
Early Clappers"; see the scientific looking, albeit completely speculative Venn
diagram below.)

Historic Venues

Doing just that – researching where music was played – is the raison d'être of
the "Resound" project of the Orchester Wiener Akademie (the Vienna Academy
Orchestra) under organist-cum-conductor-cum-impresario Martin Haselböck.
In seven concerts over two concert seasons, the orchestra will have performed
Beethoven's Nine Symphonies more or less in the venues they were premiered
in. Interestingly that is possible ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2015/10/07/vienna-premiering-beethoven-symphonies-all-over-again/

[North Star]

Sometimes people can be strange.

[W]hat happens "now" is relevant to me in music. What happened 20 seconds ago is distant history, mostly forgotten.

Elgar's symphonies are longer than those of Sibelius