Job Suggestions?

[ibanezmonster]

This is to motivate you to study hard:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/04/05/silicon.valley.job.market/index.html?hpt=Sbin

I suppose. Thanks, I guess. 
Would be a nice place to live and work, though my true dream is to work for Square Enix or something in Tokyo, if I had to choose. I'll work as hard as I can for that, though I'll still realize there is little chance of that ever happening.

There just has to be a way to break in with just a technical certificate. That guy, "Marazm," said he did (and if I remember right, his mom, too), my parents' friend did, and my teacher says I can, plus, I almost did myself. This is the best way to accumulate experience while working on a degree- go through college, and by the time I'm out, I can claim lots of years of experience with a bachelor's degree at the same time (I can already claim 2 years of experience with Java and VB.net each, so if I used those at work, that could increase to a lot, and so on).

Ok... found an "entry level" job in Atlanta which I definitely am qualified for. I'll just have to keep on looking these things up without stopping...

[ibanezmonster]

I just have to say it. This would be hilarious and cool at the same time if it happened.

There's a programming job that I very much qualify for in Alexandria, VA. It happens that this is very close to Washington, D.C. and Georgetown University where a childhood friend now lives, and this is all just by chance.

I'll have to call them back again... is there any special information I should know about moving for jobs? I would imagine I could just submit them the programs I have done in school, and if they are interested, they'll hire me. I really hope I don't have to limit myself to "drivable distances" to big cities (in Florida, my only options being practically Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, and possibly Miami). If I have to do an interview, I would, but that is a lot of money to fly up there just for an interview, which doesn't even mean I'll get a job for sure.

[Scarpia]

I just have to say it. This would be hilarious and cool at the same time if it happened.

There's a programming job that I very much qualify for in Alexandria, VA. It happens that this is very close to Washington, D.C. and Georgetown University where a childhood friend now lives, and this is all just by chance.

I'll have to call them back again... is there any special information I should know about moving for jobs? I would imagine I could just submit them the programs I have done in school, and if they are interested, they'll hire me. I really hope I don't have to limit myself to "drivable distances" to big cities (in Florida, my only options being practically Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, and possibly Miami). If I have to do an interview, I would, but that is a lot of money to fly up there just for an interview, which doesn't even mean I'll get a job for sure.

Normally they would cover expensive if you come in for an interview, which means they may do a "phone interview" instead.  Maybe they'll want to do a video interview (the NYTimes had a feature article on how to prepare for a video interview, i.e. making sure the background is tidy and doesn't have satanic posters, and that the area is secure so your interview isn't interrupted by your roommate barging in in his underwear).

[ibanezmonster]

Normally they would cover expensive if you come in for an interview, which means they may do a "phone interview" instead.  Maybe they'll want to do a video interview (the NYTimes had a feature article on how to prepare for a video interview, i.e. making sure the background is tidy and doesn't have satanic posters, and that the area is secure so your interview isn't interrupted by your roommate barging in in his underwear).

Thanks.  Yeah, I thought about that and figured they probably do phone interviews.

[DavidW]

You probably know this by now, and if so don't be insulted Greg... but don't count on even hearing back from any one job you apply for.  When I was looking for a job this is what I would do: I figured out the list of legitimate job posting sites on the net, and I would search through them every day.  I would apply to the jobs I qualified for, and kept a spreadsheet with info, about who they are, what the job is, contact info, current status etc and just kept working on it.

Sometimes I would receive phone calls for interviews.  The usual procedure is phone interview, on site interview and then an offer but some places do more interviews or less.  Some will pay for you to come out to interview, some will do a skype interview, some will just expect you to pay your own way. It is very important if they ask for an on-site interview that you ask if they will offer travel reimbursement.  If they don't you shouldn't go.  Not only will it quickly bankrupt you but it shows you how much interest they have in your job and how you will be treated if you work for them.  Furthermore you will quickly figure out if they were really trying to hire local or were invested in a national job search.

[ibanezmonster]

You probably know this by now, and if so don't be insulted Greg... but don't count on even hearing back from any one job you apply for.  When I was looking for a job this is what I would do: I figured out the list of legitimate job posting sites on the net, and I would search through them every day.  I would apply to the jobs I qualified for, and kept a spreadsheet with info, about who they are, what the job is, contact info, current status etc and just kept working on it.

Sometimes I would receive phone calls for interviews.  The usual procedure is phone interview, on site interview and then an offer but some places do more interviews or less.  Some will pay for you to come out to interview, some will do a skype interview, some will just expect you to pay your own way. It is very important if they ask for an on-site interview that you ask if they will offer travel reimbursement.  If they don't you shouldn't go.  Not only will it quickly bankrupt you but it shows you how much interest they have in your job and how you will be treated if you work for them.  Furthermore you will quickly figure out if they were really trying to hire local or were invested in a national job search.

Thanks for the advice. 
Oh yeah, I would definitely ask for travel reimbursement. Also, I'm trying to actually call back the places I'm interested in- hopefully it helps. I just don't see anyone contacting me with a resume alone (and that goes for any type of job).

[jowcol]

Thanks for the advice. 
Oh yeah, I would definitely ask for travel reimbursement. Also, I'm trying to actually call back the places I'm interested in- hopefully it helps. I just don't see anyone contacting me with a resume alone (and that goes for any type of job).

For what it's worth, I volunteer at a resume clinic twice a year at George Mason U, in Northern VA.  Primarily to help people avoid the mistakes I made.

The single most important thing you can do (and what i look for when I hire people) is to have a cover letter that shows that you've gone online and researched the hell out of then, you know what they are doing, you know what causes them pain, and you are acting like you arleady have the job.   The job  I have now I didn't have to try too hard, since it was people I formerlly worked with, but the time before, I had a 20 page plan when I came for the second interview that laid out how I'd approach the task they wanted to put me on.  I got the offer---.   For internal appointments I've actually coded up demos to show what I could do-- it worked one time, the other time they hired a jerk with more seniority whose first assignment was to get a copy of my demo to show a client...

It would be cool to have Northern VA get another classical fan, but at least from my area in the IT market around here, you can't always count on a travel reimbursement unless they are desperate to fill a slot, and you have something rare (like 007 license to kill security clearances.)  Skype is good, but do make sure to show on your end that you are willing to go the extra mile and show initiative.

I'll also further Haydnfan's advice and say that you should not feel any qualms about applying to the same company each time a slot opens.  Most companies are not good about going back over old resumes, and no resume takes the same path through a company two times in a row.  Getting on offer is a more random event than any of us would like to believe.

I'm gonna be on travel soon, but if you message me, you can send me a copy of your resume and I'll offer some ideas..

[ibanezmonster]

For what it's worth, I volunteer at a resume clinic twice a year at George Mason U, in Northern VA.  Primarily to help people avoid the mistakes I made.

The single most important thing you can do (and what i look for when I hire people) is to have a cover letter that shows that you've gone online and researched the hell out of then, you know what they are doing, you know what causes them pain, and you are acting like you arleady have the job.   The job  I have now I didn't have to try too hard, since it was people I formerlly worked with, but the time before, I had a 20 page plan when I came for the second interview that laid out how I'd approach the task they wanted to put me on.  I got the offer---.   For internal appointments I've actually coded up demos to show what I could do-- it worked one time, the other time they hired a jerk with more seniority whose first assignment was to get a copy of my demo to show a client...

It would be cool to have Northern VA get another classical fan, but at least from my area in the IT market around here, you can't always count on a travel reimbursement unless they are desperate to fill a slot, and you have something rare (like 007 license to kill security clearances.)  Skype is good, but do make sure to show on your end that you are willing to go the extra mile and show initiative.

I'll also further Haydnfan's advice and say that you should not feel any qualms about applying to the same company each time a slot opens.  Most companies are not good about going back over old resumes, and no resume takes the same path through a company two times in a row.  Getting on offer is a more random event than any of us would like to believe.

I'm gonna be on travel soon, but if you message me, you can send me a copy of your resume and I'll offer some ideas..

That security clearance thing is so weird... the only government security clearances I've had were for the library, but they keep on mentioning that.
I'll send you a pm... I really appreciate the advice and the help. 

[DavidW]

I just don't see anyone contacting me with a resume alone (and that goes for any type of job).

That's exactly why you have to apply for ALOT of jobs.  Because any individual one the odds are you won't get a call back.  And for the ones that give you a phone interview, only a fraction of those will lead to the second interview.  The resume and cover letter are just to get that initial phone call.  The phone interview is just to get that second interview.  The second interview is when you try to get the job.  And even at that point you will have at best a 1 out of 3 chance of getting an offer.  So you need to apply to many, many jobs if you want to not only receive an offer, but two or three offers to choose from.

So what I'm saying is that if you see a job that will float your boat, dig deeper and find dozens and apply to all of them.  You have to really go after this thing if you want it, you know what I mean?

[ibanezmonster]

That's why I'm glad I'm not tied down to living where I am...
well, one reassuring thing I've done is a specific search term: stuff like "php entry level" or "c++ entry level," and there are a ton of them in the country. Also, there are many internship positions available as well.

One thing I'm also not sure of is whether I should be spending my time working on my own programming projects or doing job searches. Usually, companies ask if you've "done anything outside of school," and I don't have exactly any complete non-school/non-work projects. I don't know how most places would judge me on that, and it's hard to say which one I should be doing, since I can't be doing both at the same time.

[DavidW]

I would say job searches, I don't know how much hobby coding would help.  If you could intern it might be a good foot in the door.

[jowcol]

That's why I'm glad I'm not tied down to living where I am...
well, one reassuring thing I've done is a specific search term: stuff like "php entry level" or "c++ entry level," and there are a ton of them in the country. Also, there are many internship positions available as well.

One thing I'm also not sure of is whether I should be spending my time working on my own programming projects or doing job searches. Usually, companies ask if you've "done anything outside of school," and I don't have exactly any complete non-school/non-work projects. I don't know how most places would judge me on that, and it's hard to say which one I should be doing, since I can't be doing both at the same time.

I'd do both in parallel. If you are interested in getting into web-apps, having a demo site you can refer people to is a good think to have.

THe Job searching is not so much something you do in a short burst, eating up all of your time, but rather a continuous process where you keep devoting small amounts of time.

[ibanezmonster]

I'm thinking about doing youtube tutorial videos, and then linking them in a resume or cover letter (I want to focus on C++ if I have to focus on one thing, because that's what I like the most). I can create an account just for this, and display the various programming skills I can do. (screencast-o-matic.com makes it almost too easy)...

I know it's kind of a weird thing to do, but I think it's a good idea. They can quickly and easily see what I can do that way.

Also, I think I will work on this while sending in ~2-3 applications a week or so. Focus on C++-based entry level positions with a second focus on PHP (easier to get a PHP nowadays, since right now it's so in-demand).


I'm not sure if I should contact the company I did work for and offer to work on their stuff for free or not... that is, if he has even uploaded the project I finished 3 or 4 months ago to the server. 

[ibanezmonster]

I went to a few places today that are local... seems the best chance I have is teaching guitar lessons at a local music store. I just have to send in a resume, and they are "always looking for new teachers," so I might have a chance.

My friend is looking for a house to buy in the Altamonte/Orlando area, and he said I could stay with him for $300/month. Calculating how much more I would have to pay compared to now (including the fact that I will have to buy dinners), it only comes out to about $150 more a month. I could work this out- even if not just guitar lessons, there are actually places there where I wouldn't mind working (the huge library, for example). Plus, I have several friends that live in that area and another one besides him who is likely moving over there.

Possibly the reason why I don't have a programming job right now is because the technical school where I went had no internship programs/job fairs. There are hardly any opportunities at all for programming out here. In the city, there are tons. If I went to school there, I could get on an internship position and do programming work while going to school. My parents have a friend in Orlando who went to tech school there (no bachelor's degree) and is a programmer. Why? Probably because there are actually opportunities, instead of being a barren wasteland.

I might be able to find a way to finally break out of this and be on the right track to actually being able to enjoy my life...

[ibanezmonster]

My friend already has people interested in buying his house- he just got an offer today for $5,000 more than he expected, and he is going to move as soon as he can.

There are two open positions for the library system in that county- one pays $11.61 per hour and the other $13.30 to $17.78 per hour (no degree or experience needed). They're part-time, but it would be enough money (I value free time highly). It's nice how the library actually pays its employees a reasonable rate per hour. It would take me 2 more years at Lowes to make per hour what I started out making at the library shelving books. And by 2 years, I mean working at Lowes for a total of 5 years, doing much harder work.

So, I'll have to investigate them... if I hated that position, I could easily get a shelving position again. Then I would go to school (schools being pretty close, and the community college being a million times better, with classes that, if I understood right, allow you to travel to other countries- some foreign relations or something-type electives).

[ibanezmonster]

Okay, looks like my friend won't be moving for at least a year, because of his probation- so that idea is done for. I have another friend that wants to move to Orlando, but he hasn't even been looking for a job yet. He's 26, works 50 hours a week, and lives with his parents... 

My best bet might be roommates.com. There are plenty of rooms in the $300-400 range (mainly $400).

I went down to the library I used to work at and some people recognized me and others took a minute to remember me. I could hardly remember anyone's name. It was good to see them. The bad thing is that the manager is not there anymore, so I have no way of someone putting in a good word for me, which is crucial. I have applied to about 5 open library positions at other branches in the county, though. Finally, after a 3-year hiring freeze, they are starting to hire people again. The library is a place that actually pays enough money to survive on ($10/hour to start). Unless you are a waiter or a delivery driver, there aren't any jobs that pay enough to survive on even if you go the cheapest route of living with a roommate. You can work 40-50 hours a week at a crappy minimum wage job, but how is it possible to have time for school?

I don't get how half of the people here even survive.

[DavidW]

Some of them do what you do... the others use loans and scholarships.

[Mirror Image]

I hope you can get a job at the library, Greg. That seems like a good idea. Work five days a week, off on the weekends plus all of those great holidays that they get off for.

[ibanezmonster]

Some of them do what you do... the others use loans and scholarships.

I'm definitely going to use a loan for school- supposedly, that tuition and books. Without that, school would be impossible.

I don't know details about loans. Now that you mention it, I did a search and found this page:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061220065313AAyNcnI

It's kind of vague and seems like it all "depends." Did your loans cover partial living expenses? I think $100-200 a month would be good enough. I know when I graduate, the amount of money I have to pay back will be crippling, but programmers make tons of money and it should be really easy for me to get a job or internship since I'll have an big advantage over most of the other computer science graduates.

I hope you can get a job at the library, Greg. That seems like a good idea. Work five days a week, off on the weekends plus all of those great holidays that they get off for.

Thanks! 
Yes, working at the library is great. The only disadvantage is that if you don't work full-time, you don't get insurance. But that's not much of a problem, because I will basically teach guitar to pay for a private health insurance plan. I would need 2-3 students each week, and I already have one that is really wanting to get lessons from me.

[ibanezmonster]

Reading a few things that are way better than I expected- I hope I'm not misreading anything:

1. UCF tuition:
http://finaid.ucf.edu/applying/app_costs.html
Tuition + fees + books = ~$5,500 per year.
(I would go to a community college first, which would ~$3,500 per year).


2. Loans:
http://www.studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jsp
http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-loan-info/faq/whats-the-difference-between-unsubsidized-and-subsidized-loans.php

The maximum amount you can borrow is much more than the cost of tuition and books, and I might qualify (or almost qualify) for the maximum (being an independent and making poverty wages). If I understood the subsidized loans section correctly, that is for living expenses, and the maximum for the first year is $3,500 ($290/month). But I'm not sure if these are only supposed to cover living expenses or not.