The Dating Thread

[North Star]

No, most likely she didn't.  Obesity is a complex issue, much more so than simple will power, getting into genetics and psychology.  And many psychoactive drugs actually cause major weight gain...

The missing link provided in abe's previous post.
But yeah, most obese people aren't so because they want to be.

[Madiel]

Everyone laughs at people behind their back every now and then.

You just keep telling yourself that, kid. I'm sure it makes you feel better.

[Karl Henning]

That's how one rationalizes that which is contemptible in his own character: "Everybody does it."

[Ken B]

That's how one everyone rationalizes that which is contemptible in his own character: "Everybody does it."

FTFY

[Ken B]

You just keep telling yourself that, kid. I'm sure it makes you feel better.

OK then. How do you talk about Sarah Palin?

[ibanezmonster]

OK then. How do you talk about Sarah Palin?

Exactly. And Saul Dzorevashvili?

Now that I read the article, she does indeed deserve every bit of ridicule she gets. If someone is trying to lose weight, I'm going to cheer them on. That lady isn't. And I don't have a problem with anyone who is overweight, just people who are morbidly obese because at a certain point, you can tell one just isn't trying at all. I can think of exceptions, but they are rare (for example, Shawn Lane took medication that led him to be morbidly obese, sadly leading to his death).

[Madiel]

OK then. How do you talk about Sarah Palin?

Why would I talk about her at all?

[Ken B]

Why would I talk about her at all?

Ok then Orfeo, you can tell me you are always respectful of everyone you don't like, and never sneer at Jerry Falwell or Fred Phelps, or mock those who preach homosexuality is a disease and I'll believe you.

[Madiel]

Ok then Orfeo, you can tell me you are always respectful of everyone you don't like, and never sneer at Jerry Falwell or Fred Phelps, or mock those who preach homosexuality is a disease and I'll believe you.

Oh I'll criticise the hell out of them. I'll do it with fiery passion. I'll dismiss them as idiots. I'll mock their IDEAS.

But no, I won't engage in the kind of cheap mockery that says another human being isn't really human because I don't find them physically attractive.

And neither, frankly, will lots of other people. Greg might hang out with a whole lot of other people that learnt their ethics in an American high school culture which, if the TV shows are any guide, is built around looking a certain way, being as cruel to any outsider as possible and getting yourself ahead by dragging down absolutely anyone you can, but that's not the culture everywhere. Surface charm is valued more highly in the USA than just about anywhere else (land of the beauty pageant, an event that the vast majority of Australians view with a weird repulsion), so it's no real surprise that lacking in surface charm is an offence that leads to you being excluded from the human race, but that doesn't mean that everyone everywhere thinks a woman is only of value if she looks pretty on your arm.*

This thread has been a real eye-opener. I'd read about the sort of conversations on reddit. I'd read things like that Cracked article and dozens of others that show the reaction women get when they dare to have minds of their own. I'd noticed how Classical record companies drape their young female stars over the CD covers, and the kind of reaction that would sometimes get on this forum.** On another forum I'm involved in I've seen some very thought-provoking commentary by women about how society works for them. I've sometimes overheard nasty and derogatory comments.

But I've never before been engaged directly in conversation with people who not only thought it was okay to take a pot-shot at another human being just because of how they looked (not their philosophies or politics, just looks), but found it thoroughly amusing to do so and kept defending their position, relentlessly, when other posters (not just me, but a considerable number of other posters whose comments I would equally support) expressed their dismay at what was being said. There's been no backdown. There's been an endless series of self-justifications about why it was okay to take a photo of a random innocent human being and mock her as something less than human.

If I bothered to talk about Sarah Palin, it would be because I think her political ideas are bad in exactly the same way that I think many of her male Republican colleagues have bad political ideas. It wouldn't be because I'd decided the way to deal with a woman is to mock her appearance or try to make her a figure of fun.


* This is a critique of certain aspects of American culture, not of all individual Americans. I know of Americans who dislike these same aspects of American culture more strongly than I do. There are aspects of Australian culture that drive me crazy.

**The notion that there are no female classical music fans is amusing. Apparently, the only females involved in classical music are the ones that have recording contracts?

[ibanezmonster]

It was mean to say that random lady looked like a pufferfish. Okay, you can sleep now.

[Mirror Image]

Great post, orfeo and I agree 100% with you.

Now, let me throw my own two cents into the fountain....

Looks are subjective from person to person. We all know this and we also all know that we can't help whom we're attracted to but I don't think it's anyone's right to put down someone because he/she objects to the way they look. You don't have to date anyone you're not attracted to, Greg, but this doesn't give you the right to put them down just because you find them physically not to your liking. I mean there's no reason to be cruel and unkind. Obesity is a disease that's difficult to overcome and can't simply be dealt with right away. It takes some people a long time to lose weight and some people never do because of something that's going on with them medically. I don't think it's anyone's business to say anything to these people as I'm sure their self-esteem is already low because of perhaps their inability to lose weight and the looks they get from people. Put yourself in these people's shoes, Greg. It's one thing to joke around but anything that goes beyond the jokes is uncalled for and inhumane.

[ibanezmonster]

I'm just wondering if there would be the same level of outrage if I called Bill Gates a turtle, Sam Cassell an alien, George W. Bush a marsupial, for example. (None of those are my words).

Well here's 25 people being insulted. Enjoy!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/596423-sam-cassell-and-the-25-ugliest-players-in-nba-history

My advice is to watch a few episodes of South Park and loosen up, orfeo. Yeah, that list is mean, but likely (well, hopefully) they'll never read it. It is kinda pushing the envelope of what I'd accept because the site is so popular. And do you feel the same level of outrage reading the list or 25 times the amount of outrage?

[ibanezmonster]

Reposting a previous post because the picture wasn't showing:

I'd guess that this dude has an interesting personality and that's why this lady loves him. His weight is just fine. He is beautiful on the inside.

So am I not allowed to say that this guy looks like a frog? I remember once Saul Dzorevashvili said I looked like a squirrel. Well, who cares!

If it is only obesity that I'm not allowed to make fun of, then it's only the most changeable aspect of one's appearance I'm not allowed to make fun of? Okay...

Great post, orfeo and I agree 100% with you.

Now, let me throw my own two cents into the fountain....

Looks are subjective from person to person. We all know this and we also all know that we can't help whom we're attracted to but I don't think it's anyone's right to put down someone because he/she objects to the way they look. You don't have to date anyone you're not attracted to, Greg, but this doesn't give you the right to put them down just because you find them physically not to your liking. I mean there's no reason to be cruel and unkind. Obesity is a disease that's difficult to overcome and can't simply be dealt with right away. It takes some people a long time to lose weight and some people never do because of something that's going on with them medically. I don't think it's anyone's business to say anything to these people as I'm sure their self-esteem is already low because of perhaps their inability to lose weight and the looks they get from people. Put yourself in these people's shoes, Greg. It's one thing to joke around but anything that goes beyond the jokes is uncalled for and inhumane.

If the lady in the picture had a medical issue I would take it back. But she just sits down and intentionally eats all day- she is naturally thin but chose to be that weight. Seriously, if I did nothing but eat all day and gain twice my weight, I wouldn't deserve some sort of insult?

[Madiel]

My advice is to watch a few episodes of South Park and loosen up, orfeo.

Hilariously, I just have.** It involved Wendy trying to get everyone to stop obsessing over their looks and accept that how they looked was okay instead of Photoshopping everything.

(** It's also hilarious that you're directing comments towards me when I hadn't posted anything since your last comment. Guess I hit a nerve, huh?)

Wow, THAT piece of advice backfired on you, didn't it? And you're STILL trying to justify your existence as a vicious cruel bastard by asking which targets we'll allow you to fire your complete lack of intelligent wit towards. Because that's all you have, it seems. You can't find another way to deal with people you don't like.

Sure, Greg, you're allowed to call people frogs or squirrels or pufferfish or whatever you want. And we're allowed to think you're a douchebag for doing so. Almost every post you've made in the last few pages has made me have a little more contempt for your morality.

You know what, Greg? I'm sure you'll find a girl one day. One who looks nice to you. The thing is, she'll probably be deeply insecure and completely terrified that you'll leave her, because sooner or later she'll manage to hear that she only has value to you while she stays pretty.

And looks fade, Greg. Character, though, can last a long time. Maybe you'll change, or maybe you'll just turn into one of the other couple of posters on this thread who were odiously telling you how to think about women. Snyprrr has previously shown himself to be a raging homophobe, so I wasn't really surprised when he added sexism and racism to the list during this thread. You can grow up to be snyprrr if you want. Your choice.

I started off my participation in this thread by saying that I thought a movie date was a good idea, because you could in fact go for a coffee or drink afterwards and use the movie as a conversation starter.

Now I'm going to say a movie is a great idea for a date for you, Greg, but just the movie. Someone else (Mirror Image I think?) had suggested a movie was a poor date because there wasn't really a chance to talk. I think your chances are best if you don't open your mouth.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got other things to do with my life, like wash away the stench of the view of humanity you've been subjecting me to. Byeeee.

[ibanezmonster]

And you're STILL trying to justify your existence as a vicious cruel bastard

Mmhm, that's exactly what I've always been known as.
You take it to that level because I say something negative about one person, who deserves it, and blow it way out of proportion.

Hilariously, I just have.** It involved Wendy trying to get everyone to stop obsessing over their looks and accept that how they looked was okay instead of Photoshopping everything.

No disagreement about that episode here.

[snyprrr]

Oh I'll criticise the hell out of them. I'll do it with fiery passion. I'll dismiss them as idiots. I'll mock their IDEAS.

But no, I won't engage in the kind of cheap mockery that says another human being isn't really human because I don't find them physically attractive.

And neither, frankly, will lots of other people. Greg might hang out with a whole lot of other people that learnt their ethics in an American high school culture which, if the TV shows are any guide, is built around looking a certain way, being as cruel to any outsider as possible and getting yourself ahead by dragging down absolutely anyone you can, but that's not the culture everywhere. Surface charm is valued more highly in the USA than just about anywhere else (land of the beauty pageant, an event that the vast majority of Australians view with a weird repulsion), so it's no real surprise that lacking in surface charm is an offence that leads to you being excluded from the human race, but that doesn't mean that everyone everywhere thinks a woman is only of value if she looks pretty on your arm.*

This thread has been a real eye-opener. I'd read about the sort of conversations on reddit. I'd read things like that Cracked article and dozens of others that show the reaction women get when they dare to have minds of their own. I'd noticed how Classical record companies drape their young female stars over the CD covers, and the kind of reaction that would sometimes get on this forum.** On another forum I'm involved in I've seen some very thought-provoking commentary by women about how society works for them. I've sometimes overheard nasty and derogatory comments.

But I've never before been engaged directly in conversation with people who not only thought it was okay to take a pot-shot at another human being just because of how they looked (not their philosophies or politics, just looks), but found it thoroughly amusing to do so and kept defending their position, relentlessly, when other posters (not just me, but a considerable number of other posters whose comments I would equally support) expressed their dismay at what was being said. There's been no backdown. There's been an endless series of self-justifications about why it was okay to take a photo of a random innocent human being and mock her as something less than human.

If I bothered to talk about Sarah Palin, it would be because I think her political ideas are bad in exactly the same way that I think many of her male Republican colleagues have bad political ideas. It wouldn't be because I'd decided the way to deal with a woman is to mock her appearance or try to make her a figure of fun.


* This is a critique of certain aspects of American culture, not of all individual Americans. I know of Americans who dislike these same aspects of American culture more strongly than I do. There are aspects of Australian culture that drive me crazy.

**The notion that there are no female classical music fans is amusing. Apparently, the only females involved in classical music are the ones that have recording contracts?

No. Morbid obesity IS a philosophy---

ffs- "gluttony" USED to be one of the Seven Deadly Sins, now it's just a tiny, small little part of these peoples' otherwise full and dynamic lifestyles.? you go girl

Fat IS an "Idea"---- one that apparently MANIFESTS!!

Fat is a whole lot of depression, overcompensating, misery--- do the owners thereof actually WANT it??? You're acting like it's a Virtue. It's apparently a drain on society.

JOHN HAGEE- the Zionist Christian firebrand is shaped like a big blueberry. Do you think HE THINKS he is partaking in the Sin of Gluttony? Falwell? Or a hundred thousand other professing Believers? The "Prosperity" Gospel??? pleeez 

The IDEA that they think they can get away with preaching whilst being a Sinful Glutton is a startling one, no???




NO ONE SAID the fattie (and yes, SHAME on you fattie!!) WASN'T HUMAN,- oh how you Fascists love to go to extremes- all any of the participants said was they would rather not Make Sweet Love to someone trapped in a flab suit. "Lose the Weight, Then I'll Marry You"

Got it?

"Lose the Weight, Then I'll Marry You" (you're a sweety and I love you, mwah!!)

You eat. A lot. You're massively overweight. Why? What IDEA is forcing gobs of garbage junk food in your mouth??? IDEAS IN YOUR HEAD, THAT'S WHAT.



You act like all of the Morbidly Obese are the Absolute Best People on the Planet. Sure, that's why every leader of every country is... uh.... fit? What's the percentage of our Great Men Throughout History who were Morbidly Obese?

You act like someone losing a few is a Sin?

Personal Responsibility much?


You guys exhibit as much hate, or more, than you accuse the accused of. Maybe we should talk Hate instead of Fat?



snyprrr: I love my fat friend, but I'm not attracted to her- my friend is a dear human being to me - but Mr. Happy just reads the newspaper around her.



STOP TRYING TO FORCE MR. HAPPY TO LIKE SOMEONE HE DOESN'T LIKE.

I'm just wondering if there would be the same level of outrage if I called Bill Gates a turtle, Sam Cassell an alien, George W. Bush a marsupial, for example. (None of those are my words).

Well here's 25 people being insulted. Enjoy!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/596423-sam-cassell-and-the-25-ugliest-players-in-nba-history

My advice is to watch a few episodes of South Park and loosen up, orfeo. Yeah, that list is mean, but likely (well, hopefully) they'll never read it. It is kinda pushing the envelope of what I'd accept because the site is so popular. And do you feel the same level of outrage reading the list or 25 times the amount of outrage?

Greg, they're trying to shame your penis into liking someone he doesn't like.

If I've sized you up correctly, Greg, you're a "regular guy who likes girls"--- the fact is, we don't know WHO/WHAT most of our other friends here are into- I can practically hear the seething hate for a "regular guy" whose dick likes "attractive women". Judging by their vitriol, they don't even seem to find women attractive in the least ("I don't like breasts- ewww"), so, wtf - are we supposed to take our cues from people who find the mere CONCEPT of a vagina disgusting?

lolz- these guys must reeeally hate that old saying- YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT.

Fuck- didn't those old timey people really know how to get to the heart of the matter? Fact is, all the fat out there today is made out of the worst stuff on earth, packaged into consumerist orgy of sugar and soy and salt and shit.

SUGAR and SOY and SALT and SHIT - oh my!

SUGAR and SOY and SALT and SHIT- oh my!


We've been feminized beyond belief. Women are not gods or victims.

They want to try to shame you for not holding their socialist/feminist views. I know your dick won't buckle (mind of its own), but will you???





sorry- the "I've heard of this but now I've seen it for myself" schtick was hilarious- yes- lighten up- do some pushups




I'm not DEFENDING views- corporal fattiness of the unhealthy kind has always been a horror. If you're defending--- what?--- what is it you're defending? A person's right to totally ruin themselves???

Maybe Greg just saw the unhealthiness in that poor dear sweet girl?

I don't know, maybe she's just a slob?? Could you haters actually handle it if she was a horrible person with a pretty smile? You flippers don't know if she's nice or not. Maybe she's an angel, maybe she's a devil. You're ASSUMING as much as you think the accused is.


We can tell an overactive thyroid from a Chee-to addiction



It IS an Idea, orfeo- you just have to be Brave enough to see it

MY weight/physique is a PERFECT representation of My Mind- and that's not to say I'm perfectly happy with it (it is what it is)

IT IS WHAT IT IS




"Eat What Thou Wilt Is the Whole of the Law"

                                             Aleister Crowley






You Eat What You Think









btw- sorry Greg for fuckin up yer Thread

[ibanezmonster]

Now I'm going to say a movie is a great idea for a date for you, Greg, but just the movie. Someone else (Mirror Image I think?) had suggested a movie was a poor date because there wasn't really a chance to talk. I think your chances are best if you don't open your mouth.

Dude, if for example, Bill Gates showed up in a movie and I remarked to my date that he looked like a turtle, the average person is just going to laugh and at the most playfully say "you're mean."

The reason I'm asking you if you get as infuriated about those other people being called names is to see if in reality you are just trying to protect a certain demographic. Just ask yourself- if you aren't, then there is a clear bias. If you are, then, well, I guess we have a different philosophy. Comedians that make fun of anyone are fine to me as long as they don't single out a single group.

[ibanezmonster]

You guys exhibit as much hate, or more, than you accuse the accused of. Maybe we should talk Hate instead of Fat?

Good observation.

snyprrr: I love my fat friend, but I'm not attracted to her- my friend is a dear human being to me - but Mr. Happy just reads the newspaper around her.

STOP TRYING TO FORCE MR. HAPPY TO LIKE SOMEONE HE DOESN'T LIKE.

Yes.

SUGAR and SOY and SALT and SHIT - oh my!

SUGAR and SOY and SALT and SHIT- oh my!

btw- sorry Greg for fuckin up yer Thread

lol, it's okay. You make some good points which should be quite obvious.
As for dating, for now I'm just going to work out more and get some more sun so I don't look like a ghost any more. By next summer I'll be more proactive about looking...

[Mirror Image]

If the lady in the picture had a medical issue I would take it back. But she just sits down and intentionally eats all day- she is naturally thin but chose to be that weight. Seriously, if I did nothing but eat all day and gain twice my weight, I wouldn't deserve some sort of insult?

Well, I love making fun of people to their faces BUT there's always an element of fun in my insults. There isn't any kind of cruelty to my jokes. Would you call this woman a pufferfish to her face? No, as you already have answered, but do you really know her and know her life at home and what she has to deal with on a daily basis? That's the question. Usually when I make fun of someone, I like to add myself into the insult because I'm no better than anyone else and laughing at myself is actually pretty therapeutic for me.

[ibanezmonster]

No, as you already have answered, but do you really know her and know her life at home and what she has to deal with on a daily basis?

Have you read the article?