Last Movie You Watched

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Nope. Couldn't leave this one alone.

I don't need proof, darling. I'm not the one who waltzed in declaring in snobbish definitive tones that Peter Jackson understood nothing and had got it all horribly wrong.

I may have criticized how his adaptations failed to understand Tolkien's work but it was you who started criticizing my CHARACTER.

[SonicMan46]

Currently reading the excellent 50th Anniversary 2018 issue of Bill C. Malone's Country Music USA w/ Tracey E.W. Laird (short bios below) - I've own previous issues of this definitive tome for decades; and Ken Burns & Dayton Ducan are currently in production of Country Music: An American Family Story, a documentary to be released next year - Bill Malone and his book were apparently indispensable guides in the making of this project - so, decided to watch a couple of my favorite 'country films' - don't own a lot but enjoy these two:

Coal Miner's Daughter (1980) w/ Sissy Spacek, Tommy Lee Jones, and Beverly D'Angelo as an excellent Patsy Cline - based on Lynn's autobiography and winner of many awards including a Best Actress Oscar for Sissy Spacek, who did here own singing (with Lynn as her coach).

Tender Mercies (1983) w/ Robert Duvall and Tess Harper; "Duvall, who sang his own songs in the film, drove more than 600 miles throughout the state (Texas), tape recording local accents and playing in country music bands to prepare for the role. (Source)"  Duvall won the Best Actor Oscar for this role.  Dave

BILL C. MALONE - Madison, Wisconsin - Immersed in country music since his birth, Malone has been both a scholar and a performer of the music for decades. On the fortieth anniversary of the publication of Country Music USA in 2008, he received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Society for American Music. His other books include Don't Get above Your Raisin': Country Music and the Southern Working Class, Southern Music/American Music, and Sing Me Back Home: Southern Roots and Country Music.

TRACEY E. W. LAIRD - Atlanta, Georgia - Laird is the author or editor of four books, including Louisiana Hayride: Radio and Roots Music Along the Red River, Austin City Limits: A History and Austin City Limits: A Monument to Music, the latter coauthored with Brandon W. Laird. She is a professor of music at Agnes Scott College.

   

[Karl Henning]

Tender Mercies (1983) w/ Robert Duvall and Tess Harper; "Duvall, who sang his own songs in the film, drove more than 600 miles throughout the state (Texas), tape recording local accents and playing in country music bands to prepare for the role. (Source)"  Duvall won the Best Actor Oscar for this role.  Dave

Most interesting, Dave!

[SonicMan46]

Most interesting, Dave!

Hi Karl - believe that you would enjoy, and Duvall's singing is really good!  I've seen a LOT of 'country movies' over the years, but own just a half dozen or so (shown and described below in the first quote) - the Songcatcher is a 'hidden gem' for me living in North Carolina; although fictional, the story is loosely based on the life of a musicologist discovering folk music in the mountains of the state - Dave

Crazy Heart (2009) w/ Jeff Bridges, Maggie Gyllenhaal, & Colin Farrell - Bridges does his own singing and won the Best Actor Oscar.

O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000) - a Coen Brother's film w/ George Clooney, Tim Blake Nelson, John Turturro, John Goodman, & Holly Hunter.

Songcatcher (2000) w/ Janet McTeer, Jane Adams, & Aidan Quinn - loosely base on a true story.

Walk the Line (2005) w/ Joaquin Phoenix as Cash and Reese Witherspoon as June Carter Cast - Best Actress Oscar for her; Phoenix does his own singing.

Songcatcher is a 2000 drama film directed by Maggie Greenwald. It is about a musicologist researching and collecting Appalachian folk music in the mountains of western North Carolina. Although Songcatcher is a fictional film, it is loosely based on the work of Olive Dame Campbell, founder of the John C. Campbell Folk School in Brasstown, North Carolina, and that of the English folk song collector Cecil Sharp, portrayed at the end of the film as professor Cyrus Whittle. (Source)

     

[Ken B]

The theme of Rashomon is:  Everyone lies, for his own reasons.  Each version of the story is told by an individual with his own shortcomings in perspective, and with his own motives for suppressing or refashioning the odd fact.  This is the story which Kurosawa is telling.

To boil that down to [This is a story which] could only be conceived of by someone, male, who is quite clueless and careless about rape, is dreadfully poor reading.

Yes indeed, but not always lies: memories differ, even honest ones. But your points above are well taken too.

[Mahlerian]

I'm not saying that this is the only aspect worth thinking about. The moral philosophy remains a part of the film as does its wonderful mise en scene and cinematography. All I'm saying is I cringed throughout the thing. This is a film in which a raped woman is equally to blame for the moral consequences the film presents. I'd say Mifune's charm makes things worse too even as the rape is cringeworthy for its unreality.

It's true that the film doesn't offer moral clarity, and it's not wrong to feel uneasy about that.  But that multifaceted perspective is also part of what makes it so fascinating.

[Karl Henning]

Yes indeed, but not always lies: memories differ, even honest ones.

Oh, absolutely.  Why I settled on Everyone lies, for his own reasons as a theme for the film, is I thought I remembered a line from the screenplay in which a character dejectedly cries out to that effect.  But, I may be in error 

[North Star]

I'm not saying that this is the only aspect worth thinking about. The moral philosophy remains a part of the film as does its wonderful mise en scene and cinematography. All I'm saying is I cringed throughout the thing. This is a film in which a raped woman is equally to blame for the moral consequences the film presents. I'd say Mifune's charm makes things worse too even as the rape is cringeworthy for its unreality.

I don't think it would be appropriate these days to make it seem as if rapists cannot be charming.

[Karl Henning]

Hi Karl - believe that you would enjoy, and Duvall's singing is really good!

Duvall has been something of a quiet marvel all his career, I think, Dave . . . "Miniature" from The Twilight Zone, True Grit, M*A*S*H, To Kill a Mockingbird, Apocalypse Now, The Godfather . . . .

[milk]

Yes indeed, but not always lies: memories differ, even honest ones. But your points above are well taken too.

Sorry but relativism is NOT the theme of Rashomon. Not at all. It is a popular misreading of the film but need not be so. Rashomon is presented as moral realism. The woodcutter leaves out stealing the dagger for obvious reasons. But why did he not testify accurately as to the other events? Not because of faulty memory or because the film looks to relativize his version of events. It's because of shame: the theme that runs through the film.
I would say that those misunderstanding this haven't understood the point of Rashomon, which is moral.
Critiquing Rashomon for its rape-sensibility doesn't mean it's not a great film for other reasons. Furthermore, analyzing the male gaze of it isn't politically correct, it's just the opposite. No art is immune from critique and every work is open to interpretation and reinterpretation.

[LKB]

Duvall has been something of a quiet marvel all his career, I think, Dave . . . "Miniature" from The Twilight Zone, True Grit, M*A*S*H, To Kill a Mockingbird, Apocalypse Now, The Godfather . . . .

Seconded. I would also add The Apostle, and the episode " The Chameleon " from The Outer Limits .

Respectfully,

LKB

[milk]

I don't think it would be appropriate these days to make it seem as if rapists cannot be charming.

Well, I'm not sure about that but I do think that while the wife is somewhat of a villain from every angle (save the one we can discount: her own), the bandit is just doing what a bandit does. On second thought, she is doing what women do: manipulate men (with tears you can never trust)! It's Mifune who is charming (and even gets laughs?). The bandit doesn't receive less compassion than the wife from the woodcutter.

[Cato]

Duvall has been something of a quiet marvel all his career, I think, Dave . . . "Miniature" from The Twilight Zone, True Grit, M*A*S*H, To Kill a Mockingbird, Apocalypse Now, The Godfather . . . .

Seconded. I would also add The Apostle, and the episode " The Chameleon " from The Outer Limits .

Respectfully,

LKB

Amen!  0:)

Not to be forgotten: Lonesome Dove!   0:)

[Ken B]

Sorry but relativism is NOT the theme of Rashomon. Not at all. It is a popular misreading of the film but need not be so. Rashomon is presented as moral realism. The woodcutter leave nus out stealing the dagger for obvious reasons. But why did he not testify accurately as to the other events? Not because of faulty memory or because the film looks to relativize his version of events. It's because of shame: the theme that runs through the film.
I would say that those misunderstanding this haven't understood the point of Rashomon, which is moral.
Critiquing Rashomon for its rape-sensibility doesn't mean it's not a great film for other reasons. Furthermore, analyzing the male gaze of it isn't politically correct, it's just the opposite. No art is immune from critique and every work is open to interpretation and reinterpretation.

This is stupid. I said nothing about relativism. I said memories. And memories do differ, honestly,  all the time. 

[TheGSMoeller]

The Rider: Written and Directed by Chloé Zhao

Easily the best film of 2018 I've seen so far...

[milk]

This is stupid. I said nothing about relativism. I said memories. And memories do differ, honestly,  all the time.

But that's not the problem in Roshomon at all. The characters know what happened. They lie out of shame and honor. And as I was pointing out earlier, the rape victim is one of the villains. The MEN decide compassion is the way to go.

[Madiel]

But that's not the problem in Roshomon at all. The characters know what happened.

And you know this, how?

Science has demonstrated repeatedly that people's memories of even very recent events are often faulty. Declaring that every character subjectively knows the same things might accord with your understanding of how the world works, but it doesn't accord with any objective assessment of how subjective memory works.

Please note, I'm not being definitive about this, but I have a problem with you being definitive about it. To me it's an open question in the film (from what I remember of it) how much of the unreliability of narrators is deliberate and how much it is accidental.

I note that courts in real life have to deal with this all the time. I've certainly seen a number of judgements where a judge concludes that a witness is both truthful and unreliable. I can remember being involved in at least one tribunal case where the tribunal member (my boss) reached that kind of conclusion: that a witness was sincere but shouldn't be trusted except where the testimony could be verified by another witness.

I also note that Wikipedia indicates the actors couldn't work out "what happened". They kept asking Kurosawa and he refused to tell them "the truth". So a reading that asserts that the characters know differs from the experience of the people who actually portrayed those characters.

[Karl Henning]

Seconded. I would also add The Apostle, and the episode " The Chameleon " from The Outer Limits .

Respectfully,

LKB

By gum, you're right, David.  And you remind me that I really do need to finish my survey of The Outer Limits . . . .


(I have, in fact, watched "The Chameleon," but it was . . . too long ago.  And I see on imdb.com that he was in three episodes, counting a two-parter as two.)

[milk]

And you know this, how?

Science has demonstrated repeatedly that people's memories of even very recent events are often faulty. Declaring that every character subjectively knows the same things might accord with your understanding of how the world works, but it doesn't accord with any objective assessment of how subjective memory works.

Please note, I'm not being definitive about this, but I have a problem with you being definitive about it. To me it's an open question in the film (from what I remember of it) how much of the unreliability of narrators is deliberate and how much it is accidental.

I note that courts in real life have to deal with this all the time. I've certainly seen a number of judgements where a judge concludes that a witness is both truthful and unreliable. I can remember being involved in at least one tribunal case where the tribunal member (my boss) reached that kind of conclusion: that a witness was sincere but shouldn't be trusted except where the testimony could be verified by another witness.

I also note that Wikipedia indicates the actors couldn't work out "what happened". They kept asking Kurosawa and he refused to tell them "the truth". So a reading that asserts that the characters know differs from the experience of the people who actually portrayed those characters.

The theme of the movie is not that people have faulty memories or recollections of what happened. It's that they lie about that happened out of shame. This is not a radical reading of Rashomon. I am not saying anyone is stupid for disagreeing with me, by the way. I have a critique of the film that I'm willing to question if anyone is willing or generous enough to take it into consideration. The two responses to me weren't very gracious. Oh well. In my view, which is not eccentric or even original, the stories of the three villains are faulty because they lie to protect their honor and avoid shame. I think this is clear in what Kurosawa is saying: not that it's unclear to them but that they treat each other with such inhumanity. This is underscored by what happens at the end when the woodcutter (priest and other character) discover the baby. The film ends with compassion for the baby as the characters have weighed the gravity of the inhumanity that was recounted. Irrespective of what the actors got out of the script when they were filming, I'm not the only one to think that there is a clear truth to be ascertained by looking at the recollections logically. I believe this was Kurosawa's intention and I'm not alone. The woodcutter has no reason to lie, only to leave out his shameful act of theft. We can deduce what happened by removing the self-serving parts of each recollection which are clearly supposed to be shameful lies - not faulty memories, and considering the woodcutter's second retelling of what he saw. Again, it's a pretty mainstream and logical reading of the film that it's about morality and compassion for the people who have so debased and dishonored themselves (including the women who is raped). This fits with the ending. Im not sure it's really possible to interpret Rashomon as being about faulty memories. I don't see how the film works that way but I'm open to hearing what I've missed and what many if not most critics have missed.
Edit to add: let me also remind people that the final woodcutter's scene presents THE most shameful and realistic view of the sword fight ending in murder. This is the pathetic behavior we're meant to understand and feel sick about. Again, what I'm saying here I think is quite uncontroversial. What seems to be controversial is my cringing over the rape depiction. I find it a fascinating question of exactly why this film could not be made today. I think "political correctness" is the lazy answer.

[Karl Henning]

The theme of the movie is not that people have faulty memories or recollections of what happened. It's that they lie about that happened out of shame. This is not a radical reading of Rashomon. I am not saying anyone is stupid for disagreeing with me, by the way. I have a critique of the film that I'm willing to question if anyone is willing or generous enough to take it into consideration. The two responses to me weren't very gracious.

My response to you was not gracious?