GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on August 11, 2008, 11:33:38 PM

Title: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 11, 2008, 11:33:38 PM
What are you favourite film scores?

Some of mine are:

Conan the Barbarian: (Poledouris), a great score, like Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky" (really!)

The Heiress: Copland

Ivan the Terribe: Prokofiev

War and Peace (Russian): Ovchinnikov (wish it was on CD)

Shawshank Redemption/Green Mile: Thomas Newman

2001 A Space Odyssey: Ligeti etc

Dead of Night: Auric

The Cruel Sea: Rawsthorne

There are many more, but that will do for now.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: MDL on August 12, 2008, 12:28:23 AM
The Devils - Peter Maxwell Davies
2001 - Ligeti
The Shining - Penderecki, Ligeti
Alien - Jerry Goldsmith
And of course, Mahler - Mahler
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: MDL on August 12, 2008, 02:56:42 AM
The Devils - Peter Maxwell Davies
2001 - Ligeti
The Shining - Penderecki, Ligeti
Alien - Jerry Goldsmith
And of course, Mahler - Mahler


I hope I haven't broken the rules by naming three films that use pre-existing music. I suppose that is cheating, a little bit. Sorry.  :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ChamberNut on August 12, 2008, 03:00:35 AM
A Clockwork Orange (this one led me down to the classical music path, sparked my interest  :))

The Omen - Jerry Goldsmith

2001:  A Space Odyssey

Barry Lyndon

The Shining

The Piano

The Last of the Mohicans

Eyes Wide Shut

Amadeus
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on August 12, 2008, 04:13:38 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BPhHyhJwL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 12, 2008, 04:20:01 AM
I hope I haven't broken the rules by naming three films that use pre-existing music. I suppose that is cheating, a little bit. Sorry.  :)

I don't think you can have broken them, since vandermolen himself cited:

2001 A Space Odyssey: Ligeti etc
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 12, 2008, 04:22:09 AM
Shostakovich's music for Kozintsev's films of Hamlet & King Lear

The pop hodge-podge that 'scores' The Big Lebowski suits it perfectly.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: MDL on August 12, 2008, 05:21:40 AM
Shostakovich's music for Kozintsev's films of Hamlet & King Lear


Slightly off topic, have you seen either of these films? I haven't. I'd be curious to see King Lear, though.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 12, 2008, 05:28:10 AM
Slightly off topic, have you seen either of these films? I haven't. I'd be curious to see King Lear, though.

I've seen both, and indeed recommend both.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Joe Barron on August 12, 2008, 05:59:02 AM
No one has mentioned Copland's film scores. I am especially fond of the music for Our Town. Copland himself selected extracts from the work and published them in piano arrangements. To my knowledge, he is the only composer of movie music ever to do that.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 12, 2008, 09:05:32 AM
Slightly off topic, have you seen either of these films? I haven't. I'd be curious to see King Lear, though.

Kozintsev's Hamlet is my favorite Shakespeare adaptation, and one of my favorite movies of any genre.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2008, 10:44:36 AM
No one has mentioned Copland's film scores. 

See my initial post  :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 12, 2008, 10:52:12 AM
Copland the Barbarian?  8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 12, 2008, 11:29:57 AM
John Williams - Empire Strikes Back

All of the original trilogy scores are great, but this wins over the others for the Ice Battle music and Han and Leia's love motif.

David Newman - The Brave Little Toaster

This is a recent re-discovery for me. Surprisingly dissonant and adventurous for a children's film, and probably the reason why many people say this movie "creeps them out". I have fond memories associated with this movie, and I suspect the score had something to do with later developments in my musical tastes. The songs by Van Dyke Parks are also really fun.

Jerry Goldsmith - Chinatown

Very potent mix of the "classic" Hollywood score sound and East Asian music (I am avoiding using the word "Oriental"). Sounds kitschy, but it's lovely.




Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Moldyoldie on August 12, 2008, 12:34:50 PM

The Blue Max
Patton

-Jerry Goldsmith

Ben Hur
King of Kings

-Miklos Rosza

Field of Dreams
Glory

-James Horner

Taxi Driver
Fahrenheit 451
Mysterious Island

-Bernard Hermann

The Great Escape
The Magnificent Seven
The Buccaneer

-Elmer Bernstein

On the Waterfront
-Leonard Bernstein

Many, many others!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on August 12, 2008, 01:16:15 PM
David Newman - The Brave Little Toaster
This is a recent re-discovery for me. Surprisingly dissonant and adventurous for a children's film, and probably the reason why many people say this movie "creeps them out". I have fond memories associated with this movie, and I suspect the score had something to do with later developments in my musical tastes. The songs by Van Dyke Parks are also really fun.

Interesting! When my son was little, this was one of the videos I liked him to watch because I enjoyed the music. I hadn't thought of "The Brave Little Toaster" in years until I saw your post and checked to see if the soundtrack was available on Amazon. They only have one listed, in used condition, for $91.39!  :o
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 12, 2008, 05:38:23 PM
This thread may be worth attaching here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1103.0.html
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Iago on August 12, 2008, 08:48:09 PM
"Captains from Castle" - Alfred Newman
"The Sea Hawk", "Adventures of Robin Hood", -Erich Korngold
"Peyton Place"- Franz Waxman
"Now Voyager", "Kings Row" - Max Steiner

TV Series'
"Victory at Sea" - Richard Rodgers
"Air Power" - Norman Dello Joio
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 12, 2008, 08:56:07 PM
"Kings Row" - Max Steiner

Isn't "King's Row" by Korngold, too? The score that John Williams lifted most of the Star Wars theme from.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: zamyrabyrd on August 12, 2008, 10:33:56 PM
Shostakovich's music for Kozintsev's films of Hamlet & King Lear

Hamlet is one DVD worth owning. We got ours from:
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=37286&lang=eng

ZB
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 12, 2008, 11:00:34 PM
Isn't "King's Row" by Korngold, too?

Yes, it is.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2008, 11:41:29 PM
Copland the Barbarian?  8)

 :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2008, 11:45:42 PM
Thanks for v interesting replies. I could have added many to my original list, especially Alien (Goldsmith), On the Waterfront (Bernstein), To Kill a Mockingbird (E Bernstein), Ben Hur (Rozsa), Clockwork Orange.

Others:

The Ghost and Mrs Muir/North by Northwest (Herrmann)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 13, 2008, 05:30:49 PM

Vertigo, Psycho - Bernard Herrmann. Obviously.

Dune - Toto + a bunch of arrangers and "additional music" producers listed in the small print.

Starship Troopers - Basil Polidouris (a shame the compressed recording precludes more frequent listening)

Seahawk - Korngold. I first heard the suite in its great recording by Gerhard (sp?). The Gamba recording simply doesn't measure up.

Gone with the Wind - Steiner. I have this in a fine performance by a London pick-up orchestra. It's a shame it doesn't get more live performances, it's really grand Late Romantic stuff.

Star Wars - John Williams. A cassette of film music conducted by Williams was one of my entry points into classical music. Apart from the opening theme, there's Leia's Theme and the Imperial March, both excellent by any fair-minded estimation.

Solaris (remake) - I was very impressed by this in the theatre, but unfortunately wasn't able to get a hold of the CD at a reasonable price so ended up not bothering.

Overlanders - This is where I first heard of John Ireland. Terrific score and good movie, unfortunately not on DVD.

Outlander - Jerry Goldsmith. One of his less known scores but a sentimental favourite. Good subtle use of synthesiser (but be careful the bass in the opening music doesn't blow out your speakers).

Matrix - I don't know who wrote the orchestral music, but I just heard a "sound-alike" in an advertisement and immediately recognised those chromatic brass chords - good stuff.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 13, 2008, 06:33:50 PM


Matrix - I don't know who wrote the orchestral music, but I just heard a "sound-alike" in an advertisement and immediately recognised those chromatic brass chords - good stuff.
 

That would be Don Davis.  Who is that you might ask?  I do not know, but I have the cd sitting in front of me as I type and I recently tried to sell it back to a used cd shop.  Just not my thing.  However, if you need a pro copy, I would be more than happy to send it your way (free shipping, of course).  Just need a PM with an address.  References offered on request as well.  $:)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on August 13, 2008, 08:31:38 PM
Bernard Herrmann, The Man Who Knew Too Much.  Among the best uses of quasi-classical music in a movie.  (Herrmann also wrote the concert music used in the film and directed it onscreen. 8))

Jerry Goldsmith, Logan's Run.  I've always had a sneaking fondness for that film, including its music.

James Horner, Willow.

Philip Glass, Koyaanisqatsi.  A unique fusion of cinema and music.  (As I've said before. :-[)

Plus a few "usual suspects:" Korngold's Robin Hood, Alexander Nevsky, the Star Wars flicks, Amadeus, and almost anything directed by Stanley Kubrick. 8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 13, 2008, 08:46:44 PM
Bernard Herrmann, The Man Who Knew Too Much.  Among the best uses of quasi-classical music in a movie.  (Herrmann also wrote the concert music used in the film and directed it onscreen. 8))

No. The "Storm Cloud Cantata" for the climax was composed by Arthur Benjamin, who had also provided the score for Hitchcock's first version of the story in 1933. Herrmann decided he could not improve upon what Benjamin had done so he didn't write a new piece but just added a few bars. But that's indeed Herrmann on the podium in the Albert Hall climax.

Elmer Bernstein recorded the piece decades later with the RPO.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 13, 2008, 10:27:13 PM
That would be Don Davis.  Who is that you might ask?  I do not know, but I have the cd sitting in front of me as I type and I recently tried to sell it back to a used cd shop.  Just not my thing.  However, if you need a pro copy, I would be more than happy to send it your way (free shipping, of course).  Just need a PM with an address.  References offered on request as well.  $:)

Thanks but no. I suspect it will be a case of perfectly good orchestral music married to a monotonous and overbearing techno-ish beat, rather like the X-Men soundtrack.


Re The Stormcloud Cantata, I believe Herrmann did thicken the orchestration for the second version. That's a brilliant sequence anyway, terrific marriage of music and image, what Hitchcock called "pure cinema".
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 14, 2008, 02:50:07 AM
Re The Stormcloud Cantata, I believe Herrmann did thicken the orchestration for the second version.

Hitchcock said so in his interview with Truffaut, and Steven C. Smith claims the same in his biography of Herrmann's, A Heart at Fire's Center. However, an analysis (on Wikepedia!) suggests otherwise. Unfortunately, it's only in German:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Clouds_Cantata

The writer claims that only one bar was added, and that even the 1934 conductor's score was used for the remake.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 14, 2008, 03:12:06 AM
References offered on request as well.  $:)

Bill is the very model of discretion  0:)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 14, 2008, 04:19:22 PM

I just picked up "Boult conducts Ireland" (Lyrita), mostly for the Overlanders suite (ed. Mackerras!). I think it must have been Mackerras who added the banal ta-dah's at the end of each movement. I understand the suite plus off-cuts have appeared over a couple of Chandos CDs. I'd really like a disc of the complete movie score, as one feature I really enjoyed in the film was the way the march theme recurs throughout, and in epic form for the finale.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 14, 2008, 04:46:31 PM

The Ghost and Mrs Muir/North by Northwest (Herrmann)

Both great ones.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 14, 2008, 11:44:43 PM
"The Ghost and Mrs Muir" was Herrmann's own favorite among his scores, probably because it overlaps (and shares some basic material with) the apple of Herrmann's eye, his opera Wuthering Heights.
 

Some other great scores:

Benjamin Frankel, The Battle of the Bulge

Jerry Goldsmith, Planet of the Apes

Jerry Goldsmith, The Sand Pebbles

Jerry Goldsmith, The Illustrated Man

John Williams, Born on the 4th of July

Henry Mancini, Lifeforce

R. Vaughan Williams, Scott of the Antarctic

Arnold Bax, Oliver Twist

William Alwyn, Odd Man Out

Philippe Sarde, Fort Saganne

Jean-Claude Petit, The Return of the Musketeers

Arthur Bliss, Things to Come

Georges Delerue, The Black Stallion Returns

Georges Delerue, Agnes of God

Maurice Jarre, The Bride

Bernard Herrmann, Beneath the Twelve-Mile Reef

Bernard Herrmann, White Witch Doctor

Bernard Herrmann, Cape Fear (1961)

Elmer Bernstein, The Magnificent Seven

Miklós Rózsa, Ben-Hur (1959)

Miklós Rózsa, Double Indemnity

Miklós Rózsa, Ivanhoe

Miklós Rózsa, Quo Vadis?

Alfred Newman, The Greatest Story Ever Told

Alfred Newman, The Song of Bernadette

Alfred Newman, The Robe

Franz Waxman, Prince Valiant

Franz Waxman, Sunset Boulevard

Franz Waxman, A Place in the Sun

Franz Waxman, The Story of a Nun

Franz Waxman, Taras Bulba

Franz Waxman, The Spirit of St. Louis

Franz Waxman, Objective: Burma!

Hugo Friedhofer, The Best Years of Our Lives

Hugo Friedhofer, One-Eyed Jacks

Bronislaw Kaper, Mutiny on the Bounty (1962)

Max Steiner, The Adventures of Don Juan

Max Steiner, The Fountainhead

John Corigliano, Revolution

Jerry Goldsmith, Papillon

Jerry Goldsmith, Islands in the Stream (his own favorite!)

Bernard Herrmann, The Three Worlds of Gulliver

Bernard Herrmann, Obsession (1976)

Bruce Broughton, Young Sherlock Holmes

Alex North, Spartacus

Alex North, Under the Volcano

Alex North, Dragonslayer

Leonard Rosenman, East of Eden

Leonard Rosenman, Rebel without a Cause

Leonard Rosenman, The Cobweb (Hollywood's first dodecaphonic score)

Leonard Rosenman, The Lord of the Rings (1979, light years ahead of Howard Shores' mediocrities for the Jackson trilogy!!!)

Christopher Young, The Nightmare on Elm Street II (positive proof that some of greatest scores are written for lousy movies)

Nino Rota, La Strada

Ennio Morricone, Sahara (yes, the Brooke Shields clinker)

Ennio Morricone, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Ennio Morricone, The Untouchables

Ennio Morricone, The Mission

Angelo Francesco Lavagnino, Venere Imperiale

Mario Nascimbene, The Vikings

Mario Nascimbene, One Million Years B.C.

Maurice Jarre, Lawrence of Arabia (which makes this bloated sand epic bearable!)

James Horner, Willow (for which he ripped off the theme of Schumann's Rhenish Symphony(!!!), but never mind)

James Horner, Brainstorm

Carl Davis, The French Lieutenant's Woman

Dmitri Shostakovich, The New Babylon

Dmitri Shostakovich, The Tale of a Priest and His Servant Balda

Dmitri Tiomkin, Gunfight at the OK Corral

Dmitri Tiomkin, The Fall of the Roman Empire

Benjamin Frankel, Cry of the Werewolf (England's first 12-tone score)

Virgil Thomson, Louisiana Story

Edmund Meisel, Battleship Potemkin

Arthur Honegger, Napoleon (1927)

Walter Ruttmann, Berlin: Symphonie einer Großstadt

Georg Haentzschel, Münchhausen (1942)

...

...

Again, too many great scores to mention.  :)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 15, 2008, 12:28:42 AM
Thomas,

What a great list! Many would be on my list too.

Re: Ghost and Mrs Muir, doesn't Herrmann's fine score for Jane Eyre also feature music from his opera Wuthering Heights?

On this topic, a little known but great score (or great theme music anyway) is Michel Legrand's for the Timothy Dalton, Anna Calder-Marshall version of Wuthering Heights. I remembered the theme for over 30 yrs until I bought the DVD and it is on a CD compilation of Michel Legrand's music (incidentally his recording of Durufle's Requiem is my favourite; a truly wonderful performance, unlike any other).

Rozsa's Double Indemnity, yes, a great score

Goldmith's Alien and Planet of the Apes are favourites too

Tora, Tora, Tora (Goldsmith?)

VW Scott Music+Lives of Joanna Godden (little known score...now on CD)

Alwyn's Odd Man Out is a wondeful score, truly symphonic. It reminds me of The Road to Calvary in Rosza'a Ben Hur and I think that it is one of Alwyn's greatest scores.

Bliss :Things to Come; great score.

Waxman: Bride of Frankenstein and Rebecca.

Malcolm Arnold's St Trinians is good fun.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Frankler on August 15, 2008, 09:34:27 AM
'Halloween' theme by John Carpenter

check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRxArCm6P88
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 15, 2008, 09:52:15 AM
'Halloween' theme by John Carpenter

check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRxArCm6P88

It's certainly very effective in the movie, but it's intrinsic musical quality is bordering on zero. "Good film music must be good music first" Jerry Goldsmith said, and I couldn't agree more. The scores listed above are superb in the movie, and make for musically rewarding listening independent from the films, too - which is, IMHO, what separates the wheat from the chaff.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Frankler on August 15, 2008, 09:58:43 AM
It's certainly very effective in the movie, but it's intrinsic musical quality is bordering on zero. "Good film music must be good music first" Jerry Goldsmith said, and I couldn't agree more. The scores listed above are superb in the movie, and make for musically rewarding listening independent from the films, too - which is, IMHO, what separates the wheat from the chaff.

Thomas

I couldn't disagree more, tell me how Herrmann's theme to Cape Fear is that much more complicated?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 15, 2008, 10:03:23 AM
You're kidding.

Carpenter's score is simplistic in the extreme. Herrmann's music is indeed based on short motivic cells (as opposed to the longer-winded leitmotives of Korngold et al) and often moves along 2-bar patterns (that's why he was so popular with film editors), but that doesn't mean it simple!

The orchestration, the treatment of those motiv cells and their employment in the context of drama are highly sophisticated. There is no comparison between the two.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Frankler on August 15, 2008, 10:12:59 AM
You're kidding.

Carpenter's score is simplistic in the extreme. Herrmann's music is indeed based on short motivic cells (as opposed to the longer-winded leitmotives of Korngold et al) and often moves along 2-bar patterns (that's why he was so popular with film editors), but that doesn't mean it simple!

The orchestration, the treatment of those motiv cells and their employment in the context of drama are highly sophisticated. There is no comparison between the two.

Even the Halloween theme has a small climatic point, you're right though . . .
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on August 16, 2008, 12:49:35 PM
I just remembered that I had neglected to include John Corigliano's Altered States in my original list! :-[ :D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: MDL on August 16, 2008, 02:59:41 PM
I just remembered that I had neglected to include John Corigliano's Altered States in my original list! :-[ :D

Ooh, good one! The music cues for the titles and the first hallucination (big-time Ken Russell whacked-out religious frenzy) are startling.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 16, 2008, 03:05:00 PM
Three by Rachel Portman that my wife and I truly enjoy:

Emma
Cider House Rules
Chocolat
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 16, 2008, 03:15:16 PM
For sci-fi (staying away from monsters and super heroes, with a couple already mentioned):

Goldsmith
Planet of the Apes
Star Trek I
Total Recall
Alien


Herrmann
The Day the Earth Stood Still

Horner
Star Trek II

Garcia
The Time Machine

Elfman
Mars Attacks

Williams
Minority Report
Empire Strikes Back
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 16, 2008, 03:40:42 PM
Jazz efforts (more or less and some tv), a large handful of which I REALLY want to get on vinyl:

Bernstein
Staccato
Man With the Golden Arm
The Caretakers
The Silencers
Sweet Smell of Success
Walk on the Wild Side


Ellington
Anatomy for Murder

Dave Kahn and Melvyn Leonard
Mike Hammer

Mancini
Peter Gunn
Mr. Lucky

*Nice thing about Mancini is that if you like one you probably like 'em all.

Miles Davis
Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud

Lalo Schifrin
Mannix

Count Basie, Benny Carter and Johnny Williams* (yes, the same one that gave us Jaws and Star Wars)
M Squad

Nelson Riddle
The Untouchables

and

 ;D
Moricone
The Untouchables


* John Williams was also a musician on Staccato, Peter Gunn and Mr. Lucky  8)


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 16, 2008, 06:09:45 PM
Johnny Williams* (yes, the same one that gave us Jaws and Star Wars) [/b]

I saw Johnny W. live with the Boston Pops a little while ago. I am not really into film music but it was interesting to see the man who wrote all these famous film scores conduct some of his music and some classic film scores (like Doctor Zhivago and Lawrence of Arabia). They didn't play any Star Wars though. But they played a piece from the new Indiana Jones score and then as an encore, the main themes from Raiders of the Lost Ark and ET. A fun concert.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 16, 2008, 06:18:59 PM
I saw Johnny W. live with the Boston Pops a little while ago. I am not really into film music but it was interesting to see the man who wrote all these famous film scores conduct some of his music and some classic film scores (like Doctor Zhivago and Lawrence of Arabia). They didn't play any Star Wars though. But they played a piece from the new Indiana Jones score and then as an encore, the main themes from Raiders of the Lost Ark and ET. A fun concert.

Excellent.  My wife saw him as well when he came through Denver with, I believe, the Boston Pops.  Even with the popularity that he maintains with the populus, I still feel some underestimate his ability and range....they seem to put him in the Star Wars box, that is.  However, if they took the time to listen to such efforts that do not get as much play like Catch Me If You Can and Minority Report (there are others), then that would probably change.  Just my opinion. 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 16, 2008, 11:17:54 PM
The two Maurice Jarre scores, Zhivago and Lawrence of Arabia are among my favourites. I also have bought and would recommend this disc.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CZg8resJL._SS400_.jpg)

Brilliant sound and exciting music.

There are, as some people have said, too many to mention. But amongst my favourites are Ben Hur, Once upon a Time in America, The Mission, Lord of the Rings and The General's Daughter.

I was in Jordan earlier this year and when in the desert I could hear in my mind the themes from Lawrence of Arabia. We were also five days in the ancient site of Petra. On one day I was on my own and spent part of it using my iPod. Mahler and Beethoven quickly gave way to Zinman's Gladiator score. It fitted unbelievably well, so often a swell in the music coincided with a sudden spectacular vista of ruins, instant gooseflesh. Listening to it on the commuter train to London does not quite pack the same punch.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 17, 2008, 01:46:27 AM
There are all sorts of influences in Zinman's music, the opening to Das Rheingold is given a long 'quotation'. But I don't in the least find it a horrible score. Very atmospheric and it certainly works well in its context. If the acid test is whether it stands up on its own, well, in the context I explained, it did for me.

Citzen Kane has it been mentioned? It has memorable music in it; even the pastich opera is effective.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 03:04:04 AM
There are all sorts of influences in Zinman's music.

Again, for the record  ;)

This is David Zinman, the conductor: (http://copiousnotes.typepad.com/weblog/images/2007/12/07/zinman_david.jpg)

This is Hans "Video Killed the Radio Star" Zimmer, the film "composer": (http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/22/hans.zimmer/art.zimmer2.jpg)

I'd like to raise an issue that was hinted at early in this thread - as it is one of the more controversial issues in film music: The use of pre-existing concert (or pop) music in films as opposed to music written specifically for the picture.

"2001" has been mentioned as a favorite by some posters. Now, this is usually where discussions about the effectiveness of pre-existing concert music begin, as Kubrick's picture represents the most famous example of that technique - or, if I put it into my own terms, the most blatantly obvious.

Jerry Goldmsith, IMO second only to Bernard Herrmann as the greatest film composer in history, was outspoken in his criticism of the "2001" score, denouncing Kubrick's rejection of Alex North's original score (which Goldsmith himself recorded for Varese Sarabande) and the subsequent use of the temp-tracks of Richard and Johann Strauss pieces as ineffective and crass. His main argument, with which I concur, is that well-known concert music draws attention to itself and away from the visuals - something which effective original film music must not. Alex North's score, as evidenced in the Varese recording, would have been far more subtle, e.g. he wrote something closer to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man to replace the Also Sprach Zarathustra temp-track.

There are many more instances where directors or producers (or music editors) replaced an original cue with stock classical music - without exception to the detriment of the film!!! Three examples that readily spring to mind:

1. The Greatest Story Ever Told (Alfred Newman, composer) - Newman had written his own "Hallelujah" for the end of the picture, but director George Stevens decided to use Händel's "Messias" instead. Ridiculous! The effect is gross and vulgar, it clashes horribly with Newman's score.

2. Alien (Jerry Goldsmith, composer) - Goldsmith had written an End Title based on the material of his greatly admired incidental music. Director Ridley Scott wanted a more "upbeat" End Title and thus replaced it with the opening of the 3rd Movement of Howard Hanson's "Romantic Symphony", which is hopelessly at odds with Goldsmith and with the character of the film.

3. Elizabeth I (the 1998 film, David Hirschfelder, composer) - includes a syrupy choral(!) rendition of Edward Elgar's "Nimrod" movement from the "Enigma Variations". Yuck! When I saw the film on DVD I was immediately distracted from the scene - which is something good film music never does.

Likewise, the use of pop songs in movies (which, following the success of Simon and Garfunbkel's "The Graduate", once threatened to put an end to symphonic film music once and for all) is more often deplorably superficial.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 17, 2008, 04:28:18 AM
Thank you for correcting the name Thomas, I still don't agree with you, but there we go, not a matter of consequence for either of us.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 17, 2008, 04:43:52 AM
Zimmer's Gladiator score?  ;D Horrible score BTW.
Thomas


I enjoyed Zimmer's Gladiator score.....but then again, I enjoyed his earlier Crimson Tide score.....but then again, I enjoyed Badelt's Pirates of the Caribbean score.....but then again I enjoy Holst.

The worst rip-off of Holst's Mars this side of Bill Conti.  ;)

Thomas


Your soundtrack reviews always have the "right stuff" in them Thomas.  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 17, 2008, 05:17:21 AM
Excellent.  My wife saw him as well when he came through Denver with, I believe, the Boston Pops.  Even with the popularity that he maintains with the populus, I still feel some underestimate his ability and range....they seem to put him in the Star Wars box, that is.  However, if they took the time to listen to such efforts that do not get as much play like Catch Me If You Can and Minority Report (there are others), then that would probably change.  Just my opinion. 

You're not alone, Bill: I know a musically notable chap who thinks well indeed of Jn Williams.  Williams hasn't won me over, but hey, things change.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 17, 2008, 05:25:58 AM
Again, for the record  ;)

[. . .]

This is Hans "Video Killed the Radio Star" Zimmer, the film "composer"

I thought that was The Buggles, Thomas? Was Zimmer a Buggle (so to speak)?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 17, 2008, 07:16:47 AM
"2001" has been mentioned as a favorite by some posters. Now, this is usually where discussions about the effectiveness of pre-existing concert music begin, as Kubrick's picture represents the most famous example of that technique - or, if I put it into my own terms, the most blatantly obvious.

Jerry Goldmsith, IMO second only to Bernard Herrmann as the greatest film composer in history, was outspoken in his criticism of the "2001" score, denouncing Kubrick's rejection of Alex North's original score (which Goldsmith himself recorded for Varese Sarabande) and the subsequent use of the temp-tracks of Richard and Johann Strauss pieces as ineffective and crass. His main argument, with which I concur, is that well-known concert music draws attention to itself and away from the visuals - something which effective original film music must not. Alex North's score, as evidenced in the Varese recording, would have been far more subtle, e.g. he wrote something closer to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man to replace the Also Sprach Zarathustra temp-track.

Quote
Likewise, the use of pop songs in movies (which, following the success of Simon and Garfunbkel's "The Graduate", once threatened to put an end to symphonic film music once and for all) is more often deplorably superficial.

You're using two prime examples of how music can actually be used to ENHANCE a film, not detract from it.

Intentionality is the key. What is the aim of the music? To provide a backdrop for the visuals or to be integrated into the visuals? If the latter then both 2001 and The Graduate succeed admirably.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Gustav on August 17, 2008, 09:31:57 AM
(http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1431434.jpg)
A Japanese movie called "The Mystery of Rampo", here are two tracks from the movie:

http://www.mediafire.com/?zrd8zaytxxo

http://www.mediafire.com/?mqex2oafmfr
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 10:13:01 AM
Intentionality is the key. What is the aim of the music? To provide a backdrop for the visuals or to be integrated into the visuals? If the latter then both 2001 and The Graduate succeed admirably.

I didn't write that "The Graduate" was a song score that detrimented from the effect of the movie, only that its success kicked off a regular wave of such scores, many of them inferior and unsuitable for the films - in particular, there should be a moratorium on the use of "Stand by me" e.g. ;)

On "2001" I disagree. North's score would have enhanced the austerity of the film, the temp score is a carnival freak show.

The Strauss/Strauss mix intentional? Why then had Kubrick commissioned Alex North to write an original score?

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on August 17, 2008, 11:02:18 AM


I'd like to raise an issue that was hinted at early in this thread - as it is one of the more controversial issues in film music: The use of pre-existing concert (or pop) music in films as opposed to music written specifically for the picture.

"2001" has been mentioned as a favorite by some posters. Now, this is usually where discussions about the effectiveness of pre-existing concert music begin, as Kubrick's picture represents the most famous example of that technique - or, if I put it into my own terms, the most blatantly obvious.

Jerry Goldmsith, IMO second only to Bernard Herrmann as the greatest film composer in history, was outspoken in his criticism of the "2001" score, denouncing Kubrick's rejection of Alex North's original score (which Goldsmith himself recorded for Varese Sarabande) and the subsequent use of the temp-tracks of Richard and Johann Strauss pieces as ineffective and crass. His main argument, with which I concur, is that well-known concert music draws attention to itself and away from the visuals - something which effective original film music must not. Alex North's score, as evidenced in the Varese recording, would have been far more subtle, e.g. he wrote something closer to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man to replace the Also Sprach Zarathustra temp-track.

There are many more instances where directors or producers (or music editors) replaced an original cue with stock classical music - without exception to the detriment of the film!!! Three examples that readily spring to mind:

1. The Greatest Story Ever Told (Alfred Newman, composer) - Newman had written his own "Hallelujah" for the end of the picture, but director George Stevens decided to use Händel's "Messias" instead. Ridiculous! The effect is gross and vulgar, it clashes horribly with Newman's score.

2. Alien (Jerry Goldsmith, composer) - Goldsmith had written an End Title based on the material of his greatly admired incidental music. Director Ridley Scott wanted a more "upbeat" End Title and thus replaced it with the opening of the 3rd Movement of Howard Hanson's "Romantic Symphony", which is hopelessly at odds with Goldsmith and with the character of the film.

3. Elizabeth I (the 1998 film, David Hirschfelder, composer) - includes a syrupy choral(!) rendition of Edward Elgar's "Nimrod" movement from the "Enigma Variations". Yuck! When I saw the film on DVD I was immediately distracted from the scene - which is something good film music never does.

Likewise, the use of pop songs in movies (which, following the success of Simon and Garfunbkel's "The Graduate", once threatened to put an end to symphonic film music once and for all) is more often deplorably superficial.

Thomas

      Though I disagree with you about the effectiveness of the music in 2001(as well as Barry Lyndon and A Clockwork Orange), I'm entirely with you on Alien, and the terrible use of Nimrod in Elizabeth. Couldn't a contemporary composer write something for the final transformation into the inhuman Virgin Queen?

      The mid-'60s shift to pop music in films is held responsible for ending the great partnership of Herrman and Hitchcock. A group of young filmmakers in the '70s then took up Herrman and gave work to Williams, and the serious orchestral score was reborn. So we owe a vote of thanks to Spielberg, Lucas, Scorsese and De Palma (and before them to Francois Truffaut).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 17, 2008, 12:13:43 PM

I just picked up a book on "Hitchcock's Music" by Jack Sullivan in London. Should make a very interesting read.

As for new recordings of Herrmann's film music, IMHO Varese did better than Sony. They released a lot of premiere recordings of complete Herrmann scores, and often good ones, too (their Torn Curtain was an exception, because of the bathtub sound and indifferent playing - compare to Elmer Bernstein's version!). Their Vertigo e.g. is superb.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41731B53BGL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) [
Thomas


As you noted, a re-recording.  Is the vinyl that is out there contain the original soundtrack work, Thomas? or does this cd work for original music?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vertigo-Original-Recording-Soundtrack-CD-Herrmann_W0QQitemZ320285893462QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320285893462&_trkparms=72%3A1073%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 17, 2008, 07:43:30 PM
Sound67 wrote:

Quote
On "2001" I disagree. North's score would have enhanced the austerity of the film, the temp score is a carnival freak show.

Well, this is the sort of thing someone says on an internet board to make themselves look good, or "edgy", or whatever.

But it actually makes them look little more than pseudo.

You and I can't even begin to approach the accomplishments of an acknowledged master of his craft. And Kubrick is just that. To even attempt to trivialize his efforts by suggesting "improvements" in what is universally regarded as a masterpiece is the HEIGHT of pomposity. What would you suggest Brahms do with his fourth symphony?   

Quote
The Strauss/Strauss mix intentional?

Not sure what you're driving at.

Quote
Why then had Kubrick commissioned Alex North to write an original score?

That's very simple. Kubrick hadn't yet decided on what music to use and wanted options. Testing the waters to see which score worked best. It's not unlike the effort we ourselves take when trying on clothes. It's trial and error until we find just the right look, right?



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 09:44:55 PM
Well, this is the sort of thing someone says on an internet board to make themselves look good, or "edgy", or whatever.

But it actually makes them look little more than pseudo.

Your opinion. IMO (and I co-edited two magazines on film music over a combined period of 13 years)  it was a crass misjudgement that paid off only in the minds of the easily impressed. Jerry Goldsmith was certainly right on that one. And HE understand a lot more about film music than either of us, or, for that matter, Stanely Kubrick.

Quote
You and I can't even begin to approach the accomplishments of an acknowledged master of his craft. And Kubrick is just that. To even attempt to trivialize his efforts by suggesting "improvements" in what is universally regarded as a masterpiece is the HEIGHT of pomposity.

Actually, some people think that 2001 itself is the HEIGHT of pomposity. Ever read the MAD magazine spoof on it?  :D

Closer to the point: I suggest you play the North score against the picture (which one can, thanks to the Varese CD) and judge for yourself which is more effective. I.e. if you do have your own mind on the matter, not if you think Kubrick's word is God's (which apparently you do).

I trust you now the North score, otherwise your opinion on the matter would be presumptuous.  ;D

Quote
That's very simple. Kubrick hadn't yet decided on what music to use and wanted options.

Only in a fantasy dreamland is it that simple. Commissioning a score is a costly endeavour because come what may, the composer has to be paid. NOBODY commissions a score unless he intends to use it!

On CLOCKWORK ORANGE the matter was somewhat different: Kubrick hired a synthie composer, Walter Carlos, to deliberatly distort Beethoven, and in doing so create, at least in part,  a quasi-original score.

It is well known that certain directors, like Kubrick, or Woody Allen, favor the use of non-original music. In most cases it backfires, e.g. the pathetic overuse of Barber's "Adagio" in Oliver Stone's "Platoon" - Georges Delerue did compose an elegiac movement for the film, which would have been more effective.

BTW: People here criticize works of art all the time.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 17, 2008, 10:20:43 PM
Your opinion. IMO (and I co-edited two magazines on film music over a combined period of 13 years)  it was a crass misjudgement that paid off only in the minds of the easily impressed. Jerry Goldsmith was certainly right on that one. And HE understand a lot more about film music than either of us, or, for that matter, Stanely Kubrick.

But Mr Kubrick probably knows a lot more about film.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 10:40:41 PM
But Mr Kubrick probably knows a lot more about film.

I doubt it, as far as Goldsmith and North are concerned.  8) Certainly, the two had a lot more experience.

The composer knows best about which music is most effective for a film, i.e. if he knows his craft. More often than not, scores in film history that were rejected were so because of considerations other than the QUALITY of the rejected score. And in most cases these were replaced with scores that were musically and dramatically less sound and less effective (Frenzy, Torn Curtain, Legend, Troja, etc.)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2008, 10:52:02 PM
Interesting discussion. I saw Elizabeth on DVD last week and agree about totally inappropriate use of "Nimrod". The Tallis Fantasia in "Master and Commander" worked better I thought.

I agree with Mike that the Salonen Herrmann CD is excellent.

The use of Howard Hanson in "Alien" was also a non-sequitur.

I like the use of classical music in 2001

As for pop music I thought that Bjork's "Venus as a boy" worked well in the film Leon.

Decca Phase 4 produced some excellent Herrmann CDs.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 10:52:49 PM
As you noted, a re-recording.  Is the vinyl that is out there contain the original soundtrack work, Thomas? or does this cd work for original music?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vertigo-Original-Recording-Soundtrack-CD-Herrmann_W0QQitemZ320285893462QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320285893462&_trkparms=72%3A1073%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

The Mathieson CD has been a controversial one in so far as it wasn't absolutely clear whether the cuts on it were identical to the tracks used in the film. Because there was a musicians' strike in Hollywood at the time, Herrmann was not able to record it himself. Muir Mathieson, an experienced film music conductor, recorded parts of it with the Sinfonia of London, and other parts with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra. For some time, people discussed whether the material on the CD was recorded in Vienna or in London. I think it the matter has now been resolved in that they are all played by Sinfonia of London.

Herrmann, apparently, was dissatisfied with the quality of the playing and conducting. Or maybe, he was just angry and sad that he couldn't do it himself.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 10:56:35 PM
I thought that was The Buggles, Thomas? Was Zimmer a Buggle (so to speak)?

Indeed he was. He was playing the keyboards.  ;D

Too bad he didn't restrict himself to that profession. A lot of movies would have gotten better scores without him and Media Ventures.  >:D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 17, 2008, 11:05:04 PM
By you, most likely.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 11:13:00 PM
By you, most likely.

Another supremely pointless "contribution" by M forever. But typically ungebildet. :o

Since you have nothing to contribute to this thread, why don't you just mosey off.

Quote
I just picked up a book on "Hitchcock's Music" by Jack Sullivan in London. Should make a very interesting read.

BTW, I read parts of that book this weekend, and it's excellent! An important contribution to film(music) research, as Sullivan studied memos by Hitchcock, the producers and the composers in depth, doing away with some misconceptions about Hitckock's opinions regarding the music for his films. Well-written, too.

(http://www.americanmusicpreservation.com/Images/Books/Hitchcock's%20Music.jpg)

Thomas

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 17, 2008, 11:43:07 PM
Another supremely pointless "contribution" by M forever. But typically ungebildet. :o

You are right. That wasn't such a good joke. A good joke shouldn't be too far-fetched. But since it is obvious that you don't have any really solid musical background, just adopted attitudes and opinions (carefully filtered only by the criterion that they must be "non-mainstream" and make you look like a critical, independent thinker), that was not a good joke.

Since you have nothing to contribute to this thread, why don't you just mosey off.

I do, actually:

Well, this is the sort of thing someone says on an internet board to make themselves look good, or "edgy", or whatever.

But it actually makes them look little more than pseudo.

You and I can't even begin to approach the accomplishments of an acknowledged master of his craft. And Kubrick is just that. To even attempt to trivialize his efforts by suggesting "improvements" in what is universally regarded as a masterpiece is the HEIGHT of pomposity. What would you suggest Brahms do with his fourth symphony?   

I have to agree with donwyn here. We rarely agree on anything, so that lends that more weight. And sound67 doesn't care about Brahms' 4th symphony. That is way too mainstream for him.

Only in a fantasy dreamland is it that simple. Commissioning a score is a costly endeavour because come what may, the composer has to be paid. NOBODY commissions a score unless he intends to use it!

Here I have to agree with sound67. Commissioning the score and then not using it is very strange. But there is a good explanation: When he heard North's version, Kubrick must have realized that for hat he wanted to do there, it was simply impossible to top the opening sequence of Also sprach Zarathustra which is not only one of the most striking musical ideas in history, it is also so condensed and to-the-point that it can't be expressed better. And on top of that, the music is actually about the same idea that his pictures express, too (roughly at least) - so it is not just a great sounding "clip", it also makes sense as cultural reference.

North's attempt is also simpy pretty bad music, it begins and ends kind of like AsZ, awkwardly paraphrases Copland in between, as sound67 himself pointed out, rambles all over the places - it sounds like music for a bad Italian gladiator movie from the 50s. Kubrick must have realized that he wasted the money he had paid North. At least he admitted that by discarding the score. But that's natural. a lot of elements get discarded during the making of a movie.

Ever read the MAD magazine spoof on it?

So MAD magazine is where you get your education about movies from? Is anybody surprised? Anybody? Hello?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 17, 2008, 11:52:30 PM
North's attempt is also simpy pretty bad music, it begins and ends kind of like AsZ, awkwardly paraphrases Copland in between, as sound67 himself pointed out, rambles all over the places - it sounds like music for a bad Italian gladiator movie from the 50s. Kubrick must have realized that he wasted the money he had paid North. At least he admitted that by discarding the score. But that's natural. a lot of elements get discarded during the making of a movie.

That's nonsense. It is excellent film score and most appropriate for the film. But apparently, it wasn't pretentious enough for Kubrick. You have no real interest or knowledge in that field, so quit pretending. You don't know that music.

The re-recording is still available from Varese Sarabande so everyone can judge for himself: (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41D73RTEYNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Quote
So MAD magazine is where you get your education about movies from? Is anybody surprised? Anybody? Hello?

MAD magazine film spoofs are often better - and more profound! - "reviews" than those by the regular papers (one of which I worked for as a cultural affairs editor, thank you very much - they thought that when more than five people understood their articles they'd made a mistake - a very "professional" attitude towards journalism), and more entertaining, too. Their 2001 cartoon nicely denounces some of the film's more blatant pretensions.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 18, 2008, 03:25:04 AM
Just read that the actor who played Alex in A Clockwork Orange has a lifelong fear of eyedrops because of the in-effect-torture of working the Conditioning Scene.

Isn't that bizarrely and unfortunately fitting?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 18, 2008, 06:33:57 AM
That's nonsense. It is excellent film score and most appropriate for the film. But apparently, it wasn't pretentious enough for Kubrick.

Not "pretentious" enough? What does that mean? There is nothing "pretentious" about Strauss' opening for AsZ. It is as simple and concentrated as it can be musically, but at the same time, strikingly effective. Strauss only needs a few notes to express the idea with unparalleled suggestiveness. There is really nothing one can do to better that. It's not Mr North's fault. Although what he handed in really is not very good at all. Cuper-clichéed, cobbled-together stuff.

I find it funny how you insist that this score is better for the film than what the director decided. I am personally not a real fan of most of Kubrick's films (including this one), but I can easily see that he was a master film maker, and in this case, he definitely made the right decision. As the almost (almost?) legendary character of the use of the music in this film impressively demonstrates.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 18, 2008, 10:29:57 AM
There is nothing "pretentious" about Strauss' opening for AsZ. It is as simple and concentrated as it can be musically, but at the same time, strikingly effective.

The use of the piece is pretentious. It was a lapse of judgment on the director's part, an embarrassing cry for attention and a trivialization of what might been. I don't give a damn whether you agree.

You know, if Karl writes something I don't agree with, I'll give it a minute. If vandermolen writes something I don't agree with, I'll give it a minute. If you do, I don't give it a minute. Life is too short.

Thomas

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 18, 2008, 02:04:47 PM
The unused North score for 2001 reminds me a bit of Jerry Goldsmith's fine Planet of the Apes music. I find it difficult to judge without the visuals and I have the R Strauss/Ligeti/Khachaturian score deeply ingrained in me since I saw the film 8 times in a row at the Odeon Leicester Square in 1968 (on the big screen....those were the days), when I was 13. I wish there was a DVD where you could programme either score to accompany the film, as is the case with the Ron Goodwin/William Walton scores for Battle of Britain (1969).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 18, 2008, 05:43:34 PM
You know, if Karl writes something I don't agree with, I'll give it a minute. If vandermolen writes something I don't agree with, I'll give it a minute.

Truly, there is disagreement which is worth one's time and reflection.

And, there's the other kind.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 18, 2008, 06:30:42 PM
Thomas,
Was about to PM this, but thought it fit here.  When you have a chance, might you list, IYHO, the "best" efforts in regard to Hitchcock film recordings.  I know you listed some recordings earlier, but which seem to come the nearest to the actual score used, and for that matter, are there any recordings of the actual score for any of Hitch's movies (vinyl, earlier pressed cds, etc.)?


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 18, 2008, 06:32:27 PM
I have to agree with donwyn here. We rarely agree on anything, so that lends that more weight.

LOL
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 18, 2008, 07:16:05 PM
LOL
 

 ;)

Yeah, what M said is true - he and I rarely agree on anything. But I agree with him here.

All the amateur (internet) self-aggrandizement in the world can't compare to the accomplishments of the rightful masters of their craft.

It hurts to say it, but the 'less able' just need to accept that.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 18, 2008, 07:46:33 PM
Hmm.  This seems an apt moment to recap thoughts I posted Elsewhere . . . .

In considering the relative accomplishments of (to borrow a term from jazz) 'legit' composers and the providers of film scores, let us consider distinct (though, in the art of music, related) readings of the noun composition:

Quote from: Sense A
A putting together of parts or elements to form a whole; a combining. [. . .] The arrangement of artistic parts so as to form a unified whole.

And:

Quote from: Sense B
The art or act of composing a literary or musical work. [ Word for word how I find this, though I reckon that they ought not to have used “composing” in a definition of “composition.” ~kh ]

Sense A is the criterion by which we distinguish a Matisse canvas as a composition, from a repeating pattern for wallpaper (e.g.) as not a composition.  The wallpaper is designed so that it can go on and on for whatever desired height and width.  The question of the proportion, shape and layout of the room, is not a concern of the person producing the wallpaper.  A designer (e.g.) can produce a motif which can be employed in wallpaper, but he is not by that act an artist who can create a composition.

Messiaen, Cage, Shostakovich & Golijov are composers in the time-honored sense of, not only were/are they capable of generating sound-material, but they have the inspired ability to organize it in coherent compositions on both smaller and greater scales.

As I understand the art of music and the craft of composition, I should not call (e..) Morricone a composer, based solely on the skill with which he furnishes sound appropriate to film;  because that work, while clearly related to Sense B, fails to fulfill Sense A.  Because of the peculiar requirements for music in film, and the exigencies of post-production editing, it is a rare thing when writing music for film fulfills Sense A.  Generally, the person driving the ”compositional” process involved in film, is the film-maker;  his goal is to produce a work of cinematic art which is a unified whole, and any music furnished is one element on his pallette.

Some portion of the general musical public are quite content to listen to a “suite” of selections from the soundtrack written for a given film, and consider it a “composition.”  But it is not, quite.  I don't know any of Morricone's concert works, so I cannot offer what I consider a fair answer to the question.  What I can say is, that at the Museum shop we have on offer two discs of anthologized Morricone film bits;  and neither of those discs is a "composition."
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 18, 2008, 09:21:37 PM
Sense A is the criterion by which we distinguish a Matisse canvas as a composition, from a repeating pattern for wallpaper (e.g.) as not a composition.  The wallpaper is designed so that it can go on and on for whatever desired height and width.  The question of the proportion, shape and layout of the room, is not a concern of the person producing the wallpaper.  A designer (e.g.) can produce a motif which can be employed in wallpaper, but he is not by that act an artist who can create a composition.

Messiaen, Cage, Shostakovich & Golijov are composers in the time-honored sense of, not only were/are they capable of generating sound-material, but they have the inspired ability to organize it in coherent compositions on both smaller and greater scales.

As I understand the art of music and the craft of composition, I should not call (e..) Morricone a composer, based solely on the skill with which he furnishes sound appropriate to film;  because that work, while clearly related to Sense B, fails to fulfill Sense A.  Because of the peculiar requirements for music in film, and the exigencies of post-production editing, it is a rare thing when writing music for film fulfills Sense A.  Generally, the person driving the ”compositional” process involved in film, is the film-maker;  his goal is to produce a work of cinematic art which is a unified whole, and any music furnished is one element on his pallette.

Some portion of the general musical public are quite content to listen to a “suite” of selections from the soundtrack written for a given film, and consider it a “composition.”  But it is not, quite.

I'm not sure if you're saying that (1) context of creation determines the intrinsic worth of a composition, or (2) the worth of a composition is determined by its ability to stand without other context, or (3) a composition meant to be situated within a greater context is by definition inferior. I sympathise with (2), but the other two assertions seem to me to be without merit. There's no practical reason why a wallpaper designer cannot create something of artistic worth, and if we admit this possibility, it follows that this designer might "compose" something of greater worth than a composer proper.

To put in another way, there are plenty of mediocre composers around, who have been designated with Composer status by peers, critics and themselves, and undoubtedly some of them have produced music inferior to Herrmann and Goldsmith's film scores, even when those scores are deprived of cinematic context.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 18, 2008, 09:34:51 PM
Film music is not designed to stand alone. Although I quite like the wallpaper analogy, buried within an extended score there are often small compositions that can be extracted or arranged.

Prokofiev's Nevsky was film music initially and the suite he produced is not quite as in the film. Likewise, the disc of music from The Mission by Morricone; though stated to be a filmtrack, is really a number of short compositions extracted from the whole. That soundtrack has at least two standout pieces in it. But the wallpaper effect is absent in many of the soundtracks; as the composer has either expanded his composition to fit the images or has extracted the kernel of a piece from what was written to fit the images and what ends up on disc is a series of pieces, not bits of cutup wallpaper.

However it was achieved, no matter how derivative, the Gladiator music was very effective and a lot of it memorable. I have not claimed it was on a Beethovenian level, or up there with the exceptional Prokofiev scores. But we are discussing film music and I explained what I liked.

So, here I am much more with eyeresist than Karl on this subject.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 18, 2008, 09:47:45 PM
Film music is not designed to stand alone.

But in some moments, it can take center-stage. Just like in some moments, the visuals may be the most important element. In some others, the dialog. Or a balance of the three, and other elements. Film can be many things, and its elements can be mixed and balanced in many ways.

But I still don't understand why in the case of Kubrick's use of AsZ,
The use of the piece is pretentious. It was a lapse of judgment on the director's part, an embarrassing cry for attention and a trivialization of what might been.

I can see why someone might not like it, but why is it an "embarassing cry for attention" and a "trivialization"?

I don't give a damn whether you agree.

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

Very fitting quote, as I am in Atlanta right now  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 18, 2008, 10:03:56 PM
M, Yes, I can see how the three elements can be made to interplay, but I think my point stands. Even if the music predominates and is the most satisfactory element; it was designed to accompany the visuals. But there again, who knows what goes on in anyone else's head? A composer may have had a composition on the stocks for ages waiting for an opportunity to fit it into a film.

As to being in Atlanta...don't go starting any fires!

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 18, 2008, 10:12:42 PM
As I understand the art of music and the craft of composition, I should not call (e..) Morricone a composer, based solely on the skill with which he furnishes sound appropriate to film;  because that work, while clearly related to Sense B, fails to fulfill Sense A.  Because of the peculiar requirements for music in film, and the exigencies of post-production editing, it is a rare thing when writing music for film fulfills Sense A.

That's what Goldsmith meant when he said: Good film music must be good music first.

The best scores, a lot of which have now been mentioned, have withstood time not as mere film accompaniments, but as independent musical works. Many of Morricone's do too, they stand up eminently well on disc (some of his more modernist crime scores do not). So I have to disagree with you strongly on your sweeping judgement concerning Morricone's work. Scores like Sahara, The Untouchables, Novecento (1900), Once Upon a Time in America, The Mission and many others contain great set pieces that make for exciting listening independent of the films - but work just as well in their original dramatic context. But he has written too much music. IMDB currently lists 484 composer credits for Morricone, and I doubt the list even complete. Inevitably, there are weak scores along the line, more specifically a number of bad pop and icky Italian schmaltz (the worst kind of schmaltz) scores.

BTW, in Italy he is also considered an imortant concert composer.

It is certainly true that most film (or worse, TV) scores do not stand up well on an album. Only, let's say, 10-15% do, and even that might just be too optimistic an estimate. If you judged film music solely by today's standards, the picture would be pretty dire indeed. Orchestral music, if employed at all, is very often limited to a simple, monotonous droning, sustained pedal points that underline moments of suspense e.g. This influence can be more or less attributed to Hans Zimmer and Media Ventures, which is why I think this music "factory" has had such a disastrous impact on film music in general.

Only a handful of composers in Hollywood now seem to be able to craft something one would call symphonic (a flawed term for film music, but one that has come to be accepted for want of a better word), senior among them John Williams, who's had his fair share of uninspired scores like every film composer. But men like Michael Giacchino (The Incredibles), Alexandre Desplat (The Golden Compass), Dario Marianelli (Pride and Prejudice) or Marco Beltrami (I, Robot) have carried symphonic film music over into the 21st century.

It is no coincidence that people who listen to and collect film music "soundtracks" on a regular basis often favor the so-called Golden Age music of the 1930-50s. It was easier then for a film composer to write something that not only complemented the picture but that in and of itself had form and meaning. One of the reasons for this, and IMHO the most important, is that composers like Korngold, Steiner, Newman, Waxman or Herrmann (partly) - or Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Vaughan Williams, Bliss, etc al - did not have to deal with sound effects! In those days, scores had to carry the film along acoustically because the means of creating a realistic, or hyper-realistic, soundscape were not available, or severely limited. Today's Hollywood composer has to work in close cooperation with the sound effects editor, he is less free in how to shape his score. That's why film music and sound effects these days are often referred to in tandem under the term "sound design".

Also, the idea hinted at in the posts above is that most people buy and enjoy soundtrack CDs as a means to re-create their impression of the movie, or as a mere souvenir. That is not so. I myself and a lot of others buy film music albums solely because of the music even if we never intend to see the picture. Many great scores were written for lousy pictures. Does that mean we cannot evaluate and enjoy the music because we do not know or care for the scenes the music is meant to accompany? No. Because good film music must be good music first, and good music can always be enjoyed without the film.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 18, 2008, 11:00:22 PM
Just to pursue the wallpaper analogy a little further, I'd like to remind my fellow art lovers that Leonardo's famous painting of the Last Supper was commissioned to decorate a dining hall!
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 18, 2008, 11:31:52 PM

Yeah, what M said is true - he and I rarely agree on anything. But I agree with him here.

All the amateur (internet) self-aggrandizement in the world can't compare to the accomplishments of the rightful masters of their craft.

It hurts to say it, but the 'less able' just need to accept that.

Do you ever judge a musical performance by a conductor, or orchestra, or soloist? Or that a certain concert work is worthy of your attention, and others are not? If so, how can you, if you're not a conductor, or orchestral player, or soloist, or composer? These "judgements" are made on this board and elsewhere every day.

If you don't ever make such a judgement, I'd recommend you see a psychiatrist about it. There might be an underlying inferiority complex that has to be dealt with  ;)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 18, 2008, 11:40:30 PM
Thomas,
Was about to PM this, but thought it fit here.  When you have a chance, might you list, IYHO, the "best" efforts in regard to Hitchcock film recordings.  I know you listed some recordings earlier, but which seem to come the nearest to the actual score used, and for that matter, are there any recordings of the actual score for any of Hitch's movies (vinyl, earlier pressed cds, etc.)?

I don't know if I can answer that because when it comes to "re-recordings" of film music, what I'm looking for is not a close replica of the film soundtrack, but a performance that makes musical sense, even if that means changing the tempi of the original score drastically. E.g. Herrmann's own re-recordings are much slower than the film versions, because as a conductor he generally preferred broad tempi, so he also employed them when recording film music ("It's not the film" he used to say). The reason why the performances of "original soundtracks" can seem uninspired is because of their "click-tracked" nature (the click track is a technical means of synchronizing music and film). That is why I think that e.g. Joel McNeely's VERTIGO is the best available version of that score, and the same is true of his The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad, or The Trouble with Harry. I'm less convinced by The Three Worlds of Gulliver, because Herrmann's own recording for Decca is very good.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 18, 2008, 11:56:50 PM
I find it difficult to judge without the visuals and I have the R Strauss/Ligeti/Khachaturian score deeply ingrained in me since I saw the film 8 times in a row at the Odeon Leicester Square in 1968 (on the big screen....

And this is why the 2001 soundtrack, such as it is, has come to be accepted as something even "inevitable". Because we're used to it, and it's difficult to imagine other music set to the pictures. But when the film came out, responses to the music were divided. A typical reaction today is one like "domwyn"'s: The film is a classic, the director an acknowledged master. Therefore, all his decisions must have been right, or, again, "inevitable" - therefore to even think that what has come to be seen as "classic" MIGHT have been a mistake is sacrilegious.

Domwyn is of course entitled to this argumentation, as much as I'm entitled to call it cowardly.  0:)

Thomas 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 12:00:59 AM
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

Now isn't that great? Finally we agree on something.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 19, 2008, 12:47:23 AM
The best combination of film and original music I've yet encountered is by Bela Tarr and Laszlo Krasznahorkai.

Regarding pretentiousness, I find that it comes when the music is too heavy for the subject matter or for the underlying feeling of the film. Ceylan's early film, Clouds of May, is an example of this with its rather bitter-sweet feeling yet using the opening of Verdi's Requiem to close, something well out of sync. The plainsong or whatever was used in Zvyagintsev's recent film The Banishment was ridiculous, but then that whole film drowned unders its own weight. Disparity between music and film isn't necessarily negative though -- I've heard it used ironically to great effect. Through Antonioni I started to appreciate natural and industrial sounds as part of a film's soundtrack and I find these just as important as any external music, especially from him as he used music so sparingly. If you'd like a contemporary example of music, natural sounds and images (highly, creatively distorted), there's one here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ95cX7-wGw&feature=related
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 19, 2008, 01:15:19 AM
And this is why the 2001 soundtrack, such as it is, has come to be accepted as something even "inevitable". Because we're used to it, and it's difficult to imagine other music set to the pictures. But when the film came out, responses to the music were divided. A typical reaction today is one like "domwyn"'s: The film is a classic, the director an acknowledged master. Therefore, all his decisions must have been right, or, again, "inevitable" - therefore to even think that what has come to be seen as "classic" MIGHT have been a mistake is sacrilegious.

Domwyn is of course entitled to this argumentation, as much as I'm entitled to call it cowardly.  0:)

Thomas 



Yes, a fair point, although I think that the Blue Danube music with the revolving space ship was a very inspired choice.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on August 19, 2008, 03:29:10 AM
ok to enjoy it of course, but it shouldn't be confused with the serious stuff. and the concert works that i have heard from highly successful film composers are usually just as light and trite.

Korngold?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 03:54:13 AM
YES! He fits into what I said easily.

You can't have heard much Korngold, then.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 19, 2008, 04:15:44 AM
oh, i've heard enough ...

What about Die Tote Stadt? Das Wunder der Heliane? Oh, I forgot — opera is a "cop out" genre.  ::)

The violin concerto may not be the most profound piece in the world, but music would be pretty unbearable if everything were as deep as the B Minor Mass.  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 04:16:05 AM
oh, i've heard enough ...

Which works?

Are you saying that works like the piano concerto, the op.23 Suite or Die tote Stadt are "light and trite"?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 04:33:29 AM
James, so just you know, is an prick. He tried to poison the thread on film music on the old board, too.

He knows NOTHING about film music and is just repeating old cliches. No old film score is even remotely as cliched as is his own tired routine.

Just disregard his postings. They're  worthless (see above).

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 04:39:10 AM
There's no practical reason why a wallpaper designer cannot create something of artistic worth . . . .

Sure, but the wallpaper designer is not an artist by virtue of his being a wallpaper designer;  there is a bundle of skills/discipline which remains to be acquired.

That's what Goldsmith meant when he said: Good film music must be good music first.

The best scores, a lot of which have now been mentioned, have withstood time not as mere film accompaniments, but as independent musical works. Many of Morricone's do too, they stand up eminently well on disc (some of his more modernist crime scores do not). So I have to disagree with you strongly on your sweeping judgement concerning Morricone's work.

Where exactly did I make any "sweeping judgement concerning Morricone's work," Thos?

Part of what tends to cloud such a discussion is the emotional attachment viewers have formed with The Film-Scorer.  Very well, you think highly of Morricone;  what I said, exactly, was:

Quote from: karlhenning
I don't know any of Morricone's concert works, so I cannot offer what I consider a fair answer to the question.  What I can say is, that at the Museum shop we have on offer two discs of anthologized Morricone film bits;  and neither of those discs is a "composition."

Which are two quite specific remarks.

I am similarly guarded about pop musicians, Thos;  not everyone who can write a really good three-minute song, is a composer.  Your average film scorer has a better tool-box and more refined skill than Barry Manilow.  But practically everyone here has actually missed my point:  that there is a mastery of large-scale artistic integrity and coherence which is a necessary component to composition in art.  And the ability to supply suitable (yea, even well-written) sonic stuff to accompany visual images, does not presuppose, guarantee, or substitute for, that mastery.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 04:48:10 AM
Which scores did these Morricone CDs contain, Karl?

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 05:06:40 AM
Which scores did these Morricone CDs contain, Karl?

No entire score, in either case. It's the theme from this, the theme from that, Thos.

Actually, the only Morricone-scored film which I recall watching in its entirety, is Zeffirelli's Hamlet.  It's a good film, and the music serves it well (a couple of weird timbral choices IMO, but let that pass).  The score to that film is not a composition in the same sense that a Vaughan Williams symphony is, Thos (an idea with which, normally, I should have thought you would agree).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 05:10:48 AM
Here are the two discs in the shop I'm talking about, Thos:

Ennio Morricone - Film Music, Vol. 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Ennio-Morricone-Film-Music-Vol-1/dp/B00000DR51/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1219154889&sr=1-2)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RWKPPBQYL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Ennio Morricone - Film Music, Vol. 2 (http://www.amazon.com/Film-Music-Vol-Ennio-Morricone/dp/B00000DR59/ref=pd_bxgy_m_text_b)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZW55JKATL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 19, 2008, 05:16:24 AM
Was there, or will there ever be a film writer who creates stuff that compares to [...] Webern for instance?

There is Hans Werner Henze's score for Alain Resnais's Muriel ou le temps d'un retour.

Ligeti?

Per Nørgård's score for Babettes gæstebud.

And don't forget the numerous film scores by Tōru Takemitsu.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 19, 2008, 05:21:39 AM
James, so just you know, is an prick. He tried to poison the thread on film music on the old board, too.

He knows NOTHING about film music and is just repeating old cliches. No old film score is even remotely as cliched as is his own tired routine.

Just disregard his postings. They're  worthless (see above).

Thomas

Not that I necessarily agree with James, but I don't find his comments worthless.  Also, to say that James knows nothing about film music sounds ridiculous assuming that he does watch movies having music in them.  

Personally, I find that film music can greatly enhance my enjoyment of a movie or just about destroy it.  And, with little exception, film music can not stand well on its own.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 05:27:07 AM
There is Hans Werner Henze's score for Alain Resnais's Muriel ou le temps d'un retour.

Per Nørgård's score for Babettes gæstebud.

And don't forget the numerous film scores by Tōru Takemitsu.

That sort of begs the question, Corey.  When some try to argue for film-scorers 'qualifying' as Great Composers™, they point to (e.g.) Prokofiev's scores for Ivan the Terrible and Alexander Nevsky, Shostakovich's scores (not only the finest of his scores, but to his long catalogue of film scores), and to Vaughan Williams's Sinfonia antartica.

But (to choose but one of these for an example), if we were evaluating Shostakovich solely on the film scores (let's pretend he wrote nothing else), would we call him a great composer?  I gravely doubt it.  The film scoring is an interesting subset of his work, but the fifteen symphonies, the fifteen string quartets, the six concertos, the songs, the Opus 87 Preludes & Fugues — there is musical meat in the Shostakovich oeuvre, which wouldn't be there if he had just scored 200 films over the course of 40-50 years.

There is certainly skill and some considerable musical talent involved in scoring a film well;  but in any event, the fellow scoring the film is providing one element in the film-maker's composition, which is the film.  Scoring a film, one is a 'fellow traveler';  and not in the compositional driver's seat.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 05:27:55 AM
The same crap you wrote then. You just don't know anything about the many suggestions made by other posters on how to get some first-hand knowledge you simply dismissed.

You're hopeless.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 05:30:19 AM
Per Nørgård's score for Babettes gæstebud.

Babette's Feast?  Gosh, I dimly remember watching that when I was an undergrad . . . don't recall the music at all.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 19, 2008, 05:38:27 AM
I haven't heard those Corey, but i doubt VERY HIGHLY that they come remotely close to the great profundity found in Webern's and Ligeti's work.

They don't, but I feel pretty sure it wasn't their intention to create a Masterpiece with a capital 'M'. Should you lay the blame on Beethoven because his string quartets don't make good dinner music? Of course not, because that isn't what they were made for.

That sort of begs the question, Corey.  When some try to argue for film-scorers 'qualifying' as Great Composers™, they point to (e.g.) Prokofiev's scores for Ivan the Terrible and Alexander Nevsky, Shostakovich's scores (not only the finest of his scores, but to his long catalogue of film scores), and to Vaughan Williams's Sinfonia antartica.

But (to choose but one of these for an example), if we were evaluating Shostakovich solely on the film scores (let's pretend he wrote nothing else), would we call him a great composer?  I gravely doubt it.  The film scoring is an interesting subset of his work, but the fifteen symphonies, the fifteen string quartets, the six concertos, the songs, the Opus 87 Preludes & Fugues — there is musical meat in the Shostakovich oeuvre, which wouldn't be there if he had just scored 200 films over the course of 40-50 years.

There is certainly skill and some considerable musical talent involved in scoring a film well;  but in any event, the fellow scoring the film is providing one element in the film-maker's composition, which is the film.  Scoring a film, one is a 'fellow traveler';  and not in the compositional driver's seat.

The examples I listed are merely scores that have a high degree of craftsmanship and complement the images they were created for — and really, that is all I expect a film score to be.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 05:39:52 AM
They don't, but I feel pretty sure it wasn't their intention to create a Masterpiece with a capital 'M'. Should you lay the blame on Beethoven because his string quartets don't make good dinner music? Of course not, because that isn't what they were made for. The examples I listed are merely scores that have a high degree of craftsmanship and complement the images they were created for — and really, that is all I expect a film score to be.

Gold star.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 05:48:51 AM
Not that I necessarily agree with James, but I don't find his comments worthless.  Also, to say that James knows nothing about film music sounds ridiculous assuming that he does watch movies having music in them.  

Personally, I find that film music can greatly enhance my enjoyment of a movie or just about destroy it.  And, with little exception, film music can not stand well on its own.

Well said, Don.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 05:52:16 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, and good too see that you realize the immense gulph between skillful picture musik and the real deep artistic stuff. :)

Well, but if (say) Shostakovich did both, he isn't split in twain by any enormous gulf, is he?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 06:05:24 AM
You know, in all honesty...considering what film music usually is, I haven't even listened to (or much want to) hear his film music.

Then I should suggest you watch the Kozintsev films of Hamlet & King Lear;  great films, of great dramas, very fittingly scored.

Quote from: James
There is no way in hell it can possibily compare to his deepest & most rewarding masterpieces.

But, you won't know, until you listen.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 19, 2008, 06:09:01 AM
good too see that you realize the immense gulf between skillful picture music and the real deep artistic stuff. :)

A non-issue. No one here has said that film scores are "real deep artistic stuff".

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 06:14:57 AM
Look, they're great films;  watching them will not be a waste of your time.

I don't anticipate any blood spillage.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 06:31:23 AM
Yea, those...

Whatever you think of Korngold's later career in Hollywood obviously clouds your perception of his music in general. I do hope that your downright dismissal of these three utterly original and sophisticated works from one of the most talented composers of the 20th century is based on unfamiliarity with the works themselves and not merely on snobbery or bad taste.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 06:51:25 AM
No, my perception isn't clouded by anything, my perception is solely based on what I have heard.

Hopefully, but the question remains how familiar you are with these works.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 07:18:17 AM
i have listened-to and experienced his music, I am familiar with it. 

I'm curious, though; how many times did you listen to these three works in particular to decide they're "light and trite"?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ChamberNut on August 19, 2008, 07:27:16 AM
I have listened to them more than enough times to form an opinion.

I doubt that.  Perhaps you could take a breather in between your Stockhausen marathons and sample some of Korngold's works.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 19, 2008, 07:29:07 AM
I have listened to them more than enough times to form an opinion.

This sounds like the statement of someone explaining why no modern music is on the same level as the classics, you know.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 07:40:37 AM
This sounds like the statement of someone explaining why no modern music is on the same level as the classics, you know.

Especially considering that "more than enough times to form an opinion" could very well mean "once".
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 19, 2008, 07:43:06 AM
I doubt that.  Perhaps you could take a breather in between your Stockhausen marathons and sample some of Korngold's works.

Please give it a break.  The man states that he's heard enough of Korngold's music to form an overall opinion, and he doesn't think very well of it.  From what I know of James' taste in music, I wouldn't expect a different assessment from him.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 19, 2008, 07:44:04 AM
The composer knows best about which music is most effective for a film, i.e. if he knows his craft. More often than not, scores in film history that were rejected were so because of considerations other than the QUALITY of the rejected score. And in most cases these were replaced with scores that were musically and dramatically less sound and less effective (Frenzy, Torn Curtain, Legend, Troja, etc.)

Thomas

While catching up on the thread I came across this quote. Are you serious about the first line? I ask because all the interviews I've read with directors like Tarkovsky, Tarr, Antonioni, Sokurov and I think some others make it sound as if only the director can know what music is best for his film. Perhaps I'm taking your quote out of context?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 07:54:52 AM
oh, definitely more than once down thru the years to be sure.  :)

More than once. That's a good start.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 08:08:18 AM
While catching up on the thread I came across this quote. Are you serious about the first line? I ask because all the interviews I've read with directors like Tarkovsky, Tarr, Antonioni, Sokurov and I think some others make it sound as if only the director can know what music is best for his film. Perhaps I'm taking your quote out of context?

How come that very few of these directors' films have memorable scores?

Many composers complain, and rightly so, that the directors and producers they're working for are not musically erudite. Of course in the days of the Hollywood studio system this didn't matter, since the film was usually taken from the director after the end of principal photography. Editing was done by the editing department, scoring was handled by the music department. With very few exceptions, like Hitchcock or Welles, the directors had little if anything to say about the music.

Many of the heads of the music departments weren't musically educated either  :o.  André Previn's memories of Hollywood, laid down in a modest but hugely entertaining book called No Minor Chords, contain many anecdotes about music directors who would call the composer to their offices, use a single thumb to play a melody on the piano, and then told the composer to develop a score based on that "theme". That the old studio system's assembly line produced so many memorable movies, and so many memorable scores, is quite surpirising.

Even today, few directors have a say in the music, it's handled by the "suits". Directors like the one you named are not typical at all, at least as far as America and Hollywood - or commercial film making on the whole - are concerned. Still, today's composers also complain that often they're trying to do something different, but e.g. the producer or music editor have fallen in love with their temp score (such as Kubrick did with his selections), or are just unable to communicate even what kind of score they want.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 19, 2008, 08:08:25 AM

There is Hans Werner Henze's score for Alain Resnais's Muriel ou le temps d'un retour.

Indeed that one is quite remarkable. Do you know if Henze composed it for the film or if Resnais took it from an existing composition? I ask because it's one of the rare times where I think the music could stand on its own. It has a terrifying disjointed feeling to it, something akin to a breakdown maybe, and that compliments Resnais's fragmented narrative quite well. If you think I'm talking nonsense then you may be right as my memory is a little hazy from around this time, though I'm pretty sure it was the Henze score which had that effect on me.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 19, 2008, 08:25:49 AM
How come that very few of these directors' films have memorable scores?

Are you joking? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't seen any films by Tarr or Sokurov yet. Antonioni in his interviews and essays stated many times that film music is only one small element of a film which must be integrated (not plastered on top as in 99% of films) and used sparingly for its effect. He didn't use music much, and what he did use was often some '60s/'70s pop music, though when it was used it worked very well in quick snippets that complimented the feeling and aesthetic of the film. As for Tarkovsky, well, if you don't consider his Bach from Solaris, Mirror and Sacrifice or his Verdi from Nostalgia--mixed with those breathtaking images--as something memorable and unique in film and film-music history, then I don't know what to say.

Actually, rereading your sentence I think we are talking about two different things. I meant to talk about music strictly as a part of the film. Your word of "score" makes me think you want something that can be extracted, no? Personally I don't think film music has a life outside the film, so we are probably talking about completely different things.

Also I think you are concentrating more on original music, and of the above 4 I mentioned it's mostly only Tarr who uses that. That's a topic I don't know anything about and I'm sure you're right about how decisions are made....

I just noticed that this thread is in the music section of the board. Sorry, I thought it was in the diner. I see why original film music is being concentrated on now.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 08:30:58 AM
Actually, rereading your sentence I think we are talking about two different things. I meant to talk about music strictly as a part of the film. Your word of "score" makes me think you want something that can be extracted, no? Personally I don't think film music has a life outside the film, so we are probably talking about completely different things.

Indeed. I already explained this earlier in the thread. To me, film music that is merely functional, but not "alive" as music, cannot constitute good (original!) film music. Pop score snippets do not a film score make. We are talking about different things entirely.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 08:38:21 AM
Indeed that one is quite remarkable. Do you know if Henze composed it for the film or if Resnais took it from an existing composition? I ask because it's one of the rare times where I think the music could stand on its own. It has a terrifying disjointed feeling to it, something akin to a breakdown maybe, and that compliments Resnais's fragmented narrative quite well. If you think I'm talking nonsense then you may be right as my memory is a little hazy from around this time, though I'm pretty sure it was the Henze score which had that effect on me.

Henze also wrote a subtle score for Schloendorff's "Swan in Love", but that music is indeed very fragmented when listened to independently. "The Lost Honour of Katharina Blum" OTOH is eminently listenable on its own. Both were released together on a Milan LP long ago, I don't know whether they're available now.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 08:59:17 AM
...not that you have to listen to his stuff that much anyhow...

Certainly not if you don't care to get to know them; however, there's much to be appreciated in Korngold's music, especially the works mentioned above. Time's your ally there.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 19, 2008, 09:03:35 AM
Indeed. I already explained this earlier in the thread.

I missed it then.

Quote
To me, film music that is merely functional, but not "alive" as music, cannot constitute good (original!) film music. Pop score snippets do not a film score make.

I don't really understand what you mean by "alive as music"? If anything, wouldn't music that is "merely functional" be the very scores composed which are external from the film, i.e. the music which is added on top of scenes to highlight a climax or denouement? It seems to me that most film music is merely functional, in the sense that it is used only to 1) highlight a high emotional point, 2) as a segway, or 3) to cover up a certain negative emptiness (as opposed to a meaningful emptiness) in action or dialogue. I would like to redefine "original film music" to mean music which is so integrated within a film that it no longer has a role outside of the image -- something I find to be the case in only a tiny, tiny percentage of films.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 19, 2008, 10:00:12 AM
James made his prejudices apparent from the time he joined this forum.  Trying to argue him out of them seems like an exercise in futility.  Would you argue with a certain poster about the relative merits of Beethoven and Elgar?  Or with another about Mendelssohn's superiority to all others by virture of his ancestry?  (Hmmm, come to think of it, some would!  ;D )

Back to movie music:  recent mainstream films whose music I've especially enjoyed are The Road to Perdition and Catch Me If You Can.  I think John Williams might have been capable of becoming a fine "serious" composer had he chosen that path...which reminds me that it's been too long since I listened to his bassoon concerto.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 19, 2008, 10:10:15 AM
Oh but I DO know his stuff, and here is the rest of what I said that went along with that...
it's pretty safe & straight forward stuff and easily digested. No mystery whatsoever.

What I find very telling is that during all this time you keep using sweeping generalizations (e.g. "stuff"), even when you're specifically enquired about particular works. That can't be very insightful.

Not meaning you're not entitled to whatever opinion your exposure to this music has led to, of course. There are people who think more highly of Korngold than you do, which might be a hint there's more to him than meets the (your) eye.  8)

James made his prejudices apparent from the time he joined this forum.

I wasn't aware of it, but I'm starting to catch up.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 11:39:17 AM
I am similarly guarded about pop musicians, Thos;  not everyone who can write a really good three-minute song, is a composer.  Your average film scorer has a better tool-box and more refined skill than Barry Manilow.  But practically everyone here has actually missed my point:  that there is a mastery of large-scale artistic integrity and coherence which is a necessary component to composition in art. 

Right. Then Morricone's scores certainly fit the bill.

The two compilation discs you've listened you contain a very wild selection from several decades worth of Morricone's oeuvre, thrown together without rhyme or reason. I'm temperamentally opposed against such "best of" selections, for isolated themes - even those of the spaghetti westerns - can never properly represent an achievement in dramatic scoring. Concert suites are a different matter, but they are not these discs.

Karl, you could easily find integral versions of any of those scores (there are more soundtrack albums with his music than of any other film composer), and I think they would change your mind. Many of Morricone's works offer a high level of musical integration uncommon in most film music. Some do not; as I wrote, he composed too much music and stopped being interesting in about 1989. But between the late 1960s and The Untouchables, there is a lot of worthwile music - worthwhile also independent of the films. That makes him a "composer" under the rules and regulations you specified above.  ;)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 19, 2008, 06:48:10 PM
Do you ever judge a musical performance by a conductor, or orchestra, or soloist? Or that a certain concert work is worthy of your attention, and others are not? If so, how can you, if you're not a conductor, or orchestral player, or soloist, or composer? These "judgements" are made on this board and elsewhere every day.

What you're saying is something else all together from what I'm saying.

I don't deny that 'critiquing' music (like on GMG) is fun and makes for lively discussion but what you're saying is you've somehow worked yourself into position to pass judgment on the artistic process ITSELF.

IOW, you feel you can play traffic cop directing the artist to this destination or that. Which is silly. Believe me, someone the caliber of Kubrick doesn't need your help.

BTW, you never did tell me what 'improvements' you'd make to Brahms's fourth symphony.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 19, 2008, 07:07:56 PM
And this is why the 2001 soundtrack, such as it is, has come to be accepted as something even "inevitable". Because we're used to it, and it's difficult to imagine other music set to the pictures. But when the film came out, responses to the music were divided. A typical reaction today is one like "domwyn"'s: The film is a classic, the director an acknowledged master. Therefore, all his decisions must have been right, or, again, "inevitable" - therefore to even think that what has come to be seen as "classic" MIGHT have been a mistake is sacrilegious.

Domwyn is of course entitled to this argumentation, as much as I'm entitled to call it cowardly.  0:)
 

Just because a piece of art sparked critical division initially doesn't mean that the truth won't eventually win out.

And that's not "cowardly". I'd rather trust time's (and the artist's) critical eye than yours.

BTW, with all your powers of perception you'd think you could get my name right - it's spelled donwyn.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on August 19, 2008, 08:14:53 PM
Take my word for it my friend, I am not bullshitting you, I have heard the works you have mentioned earlier and others. (ie. Violin Concerto, Symphony, Much Ado About Nothing etc.) 
So you don't find depth and power in Korngold's music.  Well, a lot of us do, including me.  So who is right? ??? :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 09:39:04 PM
I don't deny that 'critiquing' music (like on GMG) is fun and makes for lively discussion but what you're saying is you've somehow worked yourself into position to pass judgment on the artistic process ITSELF.

IOW, you feel you can play traffic cop directing the artist to this destination or that. Which is silly. Believe me, someone the caliber of Kubrick doesn't need your help.

Since I'm very familiar with the process of film scoring I think I can on my own opinion in those cases as 2001, where that who?s and how?s of the process are fairly well known. Of course Kubrick doesn't need my help. If you noticed, he's been dead for quite a while. That doesn't mean he's beyond criticism.

And your inane question about the Brahms Symphony clearly illustrates that you have no idea what you're talking about, since criticizing the symphony would involve criticizing the RESULT (which is done here every day, on compositons AND performances), not the process. Clearly, it is you who cannot differentiate between PROCESS and RESULT.

In the case of 2001, I criticzed BOTH, but you didn't notice. And I'm entitled to either. And you are, too, but if you feel you aren't because you consider yourself "less able", then that's entirely your thing.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 09:51:39 PM
II would like to redefine "original film music" to mean music which is so integrated within a film that it no longer has a role outside of the image -- something I find to be the case in only a tiny, tiny percentage of films.

"Original score" is defined as new music composed specifically as a dramatic underscore for a motion picture (sometimes song scores qualify as such, as in the case of "The Graduate"). THAT's what I'm talking about. It's how the Academy defines it, and indeed all film music publications and awards committees. Leonard Rosenman e.g. won an oscar for Barry Lyndon as "score adaptation", because it was based on pre-existing music.

Many 'original' scores are, too, but too few people notice.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 11:34:42 PM
Since Korngold's name has come up repeatedly, let's discuss some recordings of his (film). These are CDsy I'd recommend for the "beginner":

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/5f/d1/4843828fd7a04cc096cc0110.L.jpg)

An album with concert suites is a great way of getting to know a composer, before you start sampling single-score CDs (if available). As far as that particular genre goes, the SEA HAWK sampler by RCA (here in its extended CD-re-release version) is top-of-the-line. Great selections from the individual scores, great playing by the National Philharmonic Orchestra (a pick-up band of London's best orchestral players), expert conducting by Charles Gerhardt and superb sound by Kenneth Wilkinson. Some of the albums in the RCA series, including this one, are among the best analogue recordings I've ever heard.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/8e/86/7006eb6709a0a6d686cc0110.L.jpg)

A sampler with suites from various scores for Errol Flynn swashbucklers, including some more material from "The Sea Hawk" as well as a longer suite from "The Adventures of Robin Hood". It also contains a vividly recorded suite from one Max Steiner's greatest scores, "The Adventures of Don Juan" (If I hgad to pick a single, desert-island example of great analogue engineering I'd pick the "Parade into London" ´cue from this suite).

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/cc/c6/c194828fd7a07b69255bf010.L.jpg) (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/bb/31/261f228348a037c694a16110.L.jpg)

If someones looking for more representative selections from Korngold's scores for THE SEA HAWK and THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD, I'd strongly recommend these two Varese recordings made by the Utah Symphony Orchestra in the 1980s. William Stromberg's recent, rather lackluster readings with the Moscow Symphony on Naxos, are "complete", but not nearly as well played or recorded. Both of Kojian's discs were produced by the composer's son, George Korngold, who also initiated the RCA series. The "early" digital sound is glorious (Soundstream Digital was a good system when properly used).

There is also an André Previn-conducted all-Korngold sampler entitled THE SEA HAWK from Deutsche Grammophon, but it's not nearly as well played or recorded as the Gerhardt-suites.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 19, 2008, 11:47:02 PM
"Original score" is defined as new music composed specifically as a dramatic underscore for a motion picture (sometimes song scores qualify as such, as in the case of "The Graduate"). THAT's what I'm talking about. It's how the Academy defines it, and indeed all film music publications and awards committees. Leonard Rosenman e.g. won an oscar for Barry Lyndon as "score adaptation", because it was based on pre-existing music.

Many 'original' scores are, too, but too few people notice.  ;D

Thomas

If you have time, I would like to hear your opinion on the differences between what you call "alive" music and music that is "merely functional" in the context of a film.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 19, 2008, 11:51:34 PM
If you have time, I would like to hear your opinion on the differences between what you call "alive" music and music that is "merely functional" in the context of a film.

I mentioned this earlier when someone suggested that John Carpenter's Halloween score was similar to what Bernard Herrmann did. Carpenter's music does not stand up on an album as an independent musical entity, while it serves well enough (not that someone like Herrmann wouldn't have improved on Carpenter in that regard as well) as functional music to support the picture. I suggest you read the thread to see what I and others are looking for when they listen to film music.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 19, 2008, 11:54:31 PM
I mentioned this earlier when someone suggested that John Carpenter's Halloween score was similar to what Bernard Herrmann did. Carpenter's music does not stand up on an album as an independent musical entity, while it serves well enough (not that someone like Herrmann wouldn't have improved on Carpenter in that regard as well) as functional music to support the picture. I suggest you read the thread to see what I and others are looking for when they listen to film music.

Thomas

So am I understanding correctly that your only qualification for "alive film music" is that it has external independent relistening value?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 20, 2008, 03:40:06 AM


 and Catch Me If You Can I think John Williams might have been capable of becoming a fine "serious" composer had he chosen that path...which reminds me that it's been too long since I listened to his bassoon concerto.

I also mentioned this one earlier David.  I would bet our friend Karl would dig this effort as well.  I will see if the shop down the road has an extra copy and get it to "The Pulse" pronto.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 20, 2008, 03:46:48 AM
Good morning, Bill.  :) 8)

So you don't find depth and power in Korngold's music.  Well, a lot of us do, including me.  So who is right? ??? :)
Well, a colorblind man is certainly right that there's no difference between red and green to him.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 20, 2008, 03:50:48 AM
Good morning, gents!

I also mentioned this one earlier David.  I would bet our friend Karl would dig this effort as well.  I will see if the shop down the road has an extra copy and get it to "The Pulse" pronto.

I remember seeing the movie on a transatlantic flight;  one of not many movies with DiCaprio which I genuinely enjoyed.  I don't carry any recollection of the musical component, but of course, a transatlantic flight is about the least desirable acoustic environment imaginable.

Well, a colorblind man is certainly right that there's no difference between red and green to him.

Surgically done, mon ami!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 20, 2008, 04:30:14 AM
Surgically done, mon ami!
Damned one-liners!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 20, 2008, 07:01:53 AM
Filmscores can be magical - and those that I love have been mentioned already ( from Rozsa's vintage pseudo-biblical bombast  ( Thief of Bagdad is remarkable!)to Auric ( La belle et la bête) , Nino Rota ( Fellini et al;), Miles davis ( Ascenseur pour l'échafaud),Laurence Rosenthal/G.I. Gurdjieff ( Meetings with remarkable men), Dimitri Tiomkin ( Lost horizon),Chostakovitch (King Lear, Hamlet) etc .etc. As for more recent films : I havent' seen enough to comment or spot a trend.

I find film sound often too loud and disagreably overpowering ( in multiplex cinemas anyway)


Peter
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 20, 2008, 07:04:36 AM
I find film sound often too loud and disagreably overpowering ( in multiplex cinemas anyway)

For that very reason, Peter, I have not been in a cinema for, I dunno, 15 years?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 20, 2008, 07:17:57 AM
ah, I'm not alone!  :)

For " A lion in winter" ( 1968) John Barry wrote a "forceful" score - music that was very much "present" .
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 20, 2008, 09:06:13 AM
Blah, blah, blah. The volume of music in multiplexes is not the film composer's fault.

The score for Dark Knight is by Hans Zimmer (Gladiator, see above) and James Newton Howard. No suprise it's cliched. Their music is not representative of the best in film music.

But even if it were, James would deny it just for the fun of it.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 20, 2008, 09:36:23 AM
 And so it goes on and on and on ..... 0:) >:D

Peter
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 20, 2008, 10:27:16 AM
ah, I'm not alone!  :)

For " A lion in winter" ( 1968) John Barry wrote a "forceful" score - music that was very much "present" .

Thanks for reminding me, I do enjoy this score, especially the opening title piece. Also, I don't think John Barry has so far been mentioned and a number of his scores were very effective, though I lost the plot as to just what he did or did not compose for the Bond films.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 20, 2008, 10:40:31 AM
I liked Barry's scores for Dances with Wolves and Out of Africa--thought they contributed to the sense of space and scenic grandeur common to both films.  I see that he scored Walkabout, too--guess I'll have to attend to the music next time I see it.  I don't recall the music for A Lion in Winter at all--guess my attention is usally hostage to the brilliant dialogue, which is a notch or two above "Yo, Adrian" and "Hasta la vista, baby."
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 20, 2008, 10:43:05 AM
I see that he scored Walkabout, too--guess I'll have to attend to the music next time I see it.

I just remember one theme that appeared throughout the movie, but not really a "score", per se. The theme is lovely, however.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 20, 2008, 10:45:02 AM
What shall we hang, the holly or each other?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 20, 2008, 10:50:28 AM
John:  My God!  If I went up in flames there's not a living soul who'd piss on me to put the fire out.

Richard:  Let's strike a flint and see.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 20, 2008, 10:55:14 AM
The sky is pocked with stars. What eyes the wise men must have had to see a new one in so many.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 20, 2008, 10:55:42 AM
Thanks for reminding me, I do enjoy this score, especially the opening title piece. Also, I don't think John Barry has so far been mentioned and a number of his scores were very effective, though I lost the plot as to just what he did or did not compose for the Bond films.

Mike

Hmm, I don't know either

I think of another lovely film, Richard Lester's "3 musketeers" - with Michel Legrand's opulent score . Fun & poetry can be combined. It's a pitty though the actors don't speak French....

Peter
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 20, 2008, 11:02:02 AM
E; You want a rest? How about eternal rest, now there's a thought.



H; What gift is this? Is it my tombstone?

E; I never could deny you anything.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 20, 2008, 03:52:54 PM
And film music is not the best representation of music. Period. 99.9999999 % of it is 3rd & 4th-rate crap & low-scale art. Making major claims for it's cogency is a joke. Entertaining, fine. Novelty value, sure. But truly profound music making? Never.

Hey James, how did you cut and paste your post from the old forum, as I thought it no longer accessible?  ;D 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 20, 2008, 07:18:40 PM
Since I'm very familiar with the process of film scoring I think I can on my own opinion in those cases as 2001, where that who?s and how?s of the process are fairly well known.

I'm sorry, but I haven't a clue what you're saying. But in any case no matter how "qualified" you claim to be you haven't a single thing to show for it. Unlike Kubrick and others.

Quote
Of course Kubrick doesn't need my help. If you noticed, he's been dead for quite a while. That doesn't mean he's beyond criticism.

I feel silly explaining this, but I didn't say Kubrick was still alive. ::) I was speaking figuratively to make a point. Sheesh!!

Quote
And your inane question about the Brahms Symphony clearly illustrates that you have no idea what you're talking about, since criticizing the symphony would involve criticizing the RESULT (which is done here every day, on compositons AND performances), not the process. Clearly, it is you who cannot differentiate between PROCESS and RESULT.

The only thing "inane" here is your constant flailing about in order to "prove" yourself.

Quote
In the case of 2001, I criticzed BOTH, but you didn't notice. And I'm entitled to either. And you are, too, but if you feel you aren't because you consider yourself "less able", then that's entirely your thing.

Pardon me?? I DID notice! That's precisely why I'm here!!!!!!!!!

Kubrick went the direction he did - using the classical score - for the sole purpose of integrating the music into the fabric of the film. The two mediums (visuals and music) coexist to create a unified whole. It was an ingenious concept.

For you to claim Kubrick erred in doing this is akin to saying Brahms didn't know what he was doing when he, say, orchestrated his fourth symphony. Certainly Brahms, like Kubrick, isn't above critiquing but to suggest a total re-configuration of the heart of either work is preposterous! YOU haven't the qualifications.

The fact that Kubrick rejected the alternate score clearly suggests it didn't meet his needs. And TIME has proven him right!!!!!     



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 20, 2008, 07:33:42 PM
Was there, or will there ever be a film writer who creates stuff that compares to Stravinsky, Bartok or Webern for instance? Ligeti? Debussy? Bach? etc? you know the real stuff? naaa never will happen, and is a non-starter from the get-go.

Name me a film composer who's written something on the level of Bartok's String Quartets? Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms? Webern's Symphony Op. 21? Ligeti's Piano Etudes? Bach's Art of Fugue? etc etc etc Go ahead!

Shostakovich. Prokofiev. Vaughan Williams. Herrmann.

And film music is not the best representation of music. Period. 99.9999999 % of it is 3rd & 4th-rate crap & low-scale art. Making major claims for it's cogency is a joke. Entertaining, fine. Novelty value, sure. But truly profound music making? Never.

Actually, 99% of classical music was crap too. Fortunately, posterity has done much of the weeding work for us.


But (to choose but one of these for an example), if we were evaluating Shostakovich solely on the film scores (let's pretend he wrote nothing else), would we call him a great composer?  I gravely doubt it.

What if we evaluated Tchaikovsky or Stravinsky solely by their ballets?
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 20, 2008, 08:36:38 PM
I haven't a clue ...

Exactly.

Thomas

P.S. @eyeresist - Give it up. James is beyond help, or hope. He just entered the thread to make everyone feel miserable about film music. That's always been his goal (see the old discussion board), it won't change.  ::)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 20, 2008, 09:42:05 PM
What if we evaluated Tchaikovsky or Stravinsky solely by their ballets?

? They'd still be considered geniuses for these alone.

I would be interested to hear our more experiened users' thoughts on the integration of music into film. IMO this is largely the reason why most film music fails, whether or not the film music is "original".

I wouldn't mind an explanation about what makes "functional music" so inferior--according to sound67--if it actually serves its purpose within a film.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 20, 2008, 10:01:59 PM
All film music is functional music in as much as it serves its purpose to support a film. It is the composer's talent that makes him able to forge the music in a way that it transcends its original function and can become an independent entity. And the better the composer, the better he is able to achieve both simultaneously. Which means that a score that is listenable when separated from the visuals serves its "function" as film scoring equally well, if not better, than a score that is deigned more along the lines of an "audio effect" and has no musical life. That's why a Jerry Goldsmith is a better composer than a John Carpenter.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 20, 2008, 10:56:57 PM
I think of another lovely film, Richard Lester's "3 musketeers" - with Michel Legrand's opulent score . Fun & poetry can be combined. It's a pity though the actors don't speak French....

It's also a pity that Legrand blew the entire music budget on the film so that his colleague Lalo Schifrin, who scored the sequel (which was shot simultaneously), only a had a tiny orchestra at his disposal - creating a slightly less opulent sound.  :-\

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 02:59:28 AM
The fact that Kubrick rejected the alternate score clearly suggests it didn't meet his needs. And TIME has proven him right!!!!!     

Yes; one may, for whatever reasons he likes, regret that the original score was not incorporated in the end product;  but to take that partisanship to the degree of claiming that the flimmaker didn't know his business or his art, is de trop.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 03:01:20 AM
Yes; one may, for whatever reasons he likes, regret that the original score was not incorporated in the end product;  but to take that partisanship to the degree of claiming that the flimmaker didn't know his business or his art, is de trop.

That's not really the same as saying that it was a mistake to replace the original score, is it?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 03:01:59 AM
Actually, 99% of classical music was crap too. Fortunately, posterity has done much of the weeding work for us.

You exaggerate tendentiously;  the percentage is significantly less in the case of music written to stand on its own.

Quote from: eyeresist
What if we evaluated Tchaikovsky or Stravinsky solely by their ballets?

It would not be entirely fair to either composer;  and yet, in both cases, the ballets alone would nominate them as among the greatest of composers.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 03:03:19 AM
That's not really the same as saying that it was a mistake to replace the original score, is it?

It's not the same, and I apologize if the exaggeration was unfair to you, Thos.  Still, while it is not nearly so far, I think you still go too far to call it a mistake.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 03:04:14 AM
You exaggerate tendentiously;  the percentage is significantly less in the case of music written to stand on its own.

It's also less as far as film is concerned.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 03:08:31 AM
It's not the same, and I apologize if the exaggeration was unfair to you, Thos.  Still, while it is not nearly so far, I think you still go too far to call it a mistake.

Hmmm. How then does it differ from saying that e.g. such and such a conductor was mistaken in adopting a certain tempo in a certain passage of a certain symphony?

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 03:14:29 AM
Hmmm. How then does it differ from saying that e.g. such and such a conductor was mistaken in adopting a certain tempo in a certain passage of a certain symphony?

Well, one possible point of difference is, the score may have a tempo marking which is a firm point of reference.

In many cases, in the sense of it being essentially an expression of opinion, no great difference, I suppose.

Edit :: typo
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 03:15:21 AM
It's also less as far as film is concerned.  ;D

Sure;  in my experience, though, &c. &c. &c.  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 03:24:18 AM
Well, one possible point of difference is, the score may have a tempo marking which is a firm point of reference.

Yeah, that's a difference. However, there are some that would argue that tempo markings, by way of "interpretation", may be disregarded.  :)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 03:40:44 AM
And, to refer yet again to a difference, which to my mind remains a crucial, definitive difference, but which is frequently being ignored as Inconvenient, the composer has all the powers and responsibilities of structure when writing (say) a piano sonata — the composer is master of the composition.  For a film, the fellow furnishing the score provides a sonic element for some other guy's project, and all question of overall composition is a matter of the film, and under the control of the film-maker (if of anyone).

Thus (to justify my repeating this point), it is of necessaity going to be the case, that there will be a higher "success rate" in the realm of composers writing and managing the Composition themselves, than in the realm of providing The Sound Stuff for a film.  And when a film scorer is providing material for a high volume of movies in a short span of time, you have the perfect environment for an unusually high Piffle Ratio of a degree which has hardly been seen in classical music since the careers of Telemann and Dittersdorf  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 04:01:02 AM
And, to refer yet again to a difference, which to my mind remains a crucial, definitive difference, but which is frequently being ignored as Inconvenient, the composer has all the powers and responsibilities of structure when writing (say) a piano sonata — the composer is master of the composition.  For a film, the fellow furnishing the score provides a sonic element for some other guy's project, and all question of overall composition is a matter of the film, and under the control of the film-maker (if of anyone).

Which also reflects a "weakness" of film as a collaborative art in that often these decisions are made by people who are not musically erudite.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 04:30:52 AM
Which also reflects a "weakness" of film as a collaborative art in that often these decisions are made by people who are not musically erudite.

Perfectly true, Thos.

Quote from: Evelyn Waugh
Two people getting together to write a book, has always seemed to me a bit like three people getting together to have a baby.

(Not sure I have the Waugh quote entirely accurate.)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 21, 2008, 05:33:23 AM
Exactly.

Thomas

Err, now you're just being an ass. That passage you wrote isn't legible. And the blame lies squarely on you.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 05:37:39 AM
If you have anything to say about film music, feel free to let us know.  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 21, 2008, 05:44:29 AM
Yes; one may, for whatever reasons he likes, regret that the original score was not incorporated in the end product;  but to take that partisanship to the degree of claiming that the flimmaker didn't know his business or his art, is de trop.

Yes, and despite sound67's constant word-spinning that's essentially how I read him. Which is the root of our disagreement. 

And for sound67:

I'm not convinced that a filmmaker needs to be "musically erudite" to make quality cinema.

That's the distinction I think you're missing.

I'm out of time now, so more later...


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 05:56:21 AM
I'm not convinced that a filmmaker needs to be "musically erudite" to make quality cinema.

A good point.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 05:58:02 AM
I'm not convinced that a filmmaker needs to be "musically erudite" to make quality cinema.

Quality cinema? Maybe not. Quality cinema with a quality soundtrack - if he chooses to get involved with the latter? Definitely.

BTW:
Quote
And the blame lies squarely on you.

Blame? How old are you - 11?  :)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 06:17:18 AM
Quality cinema? Maybe not. Quality cinema with a quality soundtrack - if he chooses to get involved with the latter? Definitely.

No, I don't think so.  He mustn't be a musical ignoramus, to be sure;  but a little musicality and luck will work as well as genuine erudition in this task.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 21, 2008, 06:51:54 AM
All film music is functional music in as much as it serves its purpose to support a film. It is the composer's talent that makes him able to forge the music in a way that it transcends its original function and can become an independent entity. And the better the composer, the better he is able to achieve both simultaneously. Which means that a score that is listenable when separated from the visuals serves its "function" as film scoring equally well, if not better, than a score that is deigned more along the lines of an "audio effect" and has no musical life. That's why a Jerry Goldsmith is a better composer than a John Carpenter.

Thomas

I see you have something of an agenda to push one composer in front of another. That's fine, I don't really want to argue about this matter of "independent entity", partly because I don't know anything about original film music and partly because I think the distinction you're making is a little bit silly. What I'm interested in is the point you ignored -- the integration of music and film. Speaking frankly I think this is the opposite of what you like, i.e. music which is enjoyable in itself somehow fitting on top of a film for superficial emotional/climactic effect. If I'm wrong you can inform me otherwise. In the end these guys you mention are, mostly, film composers, so talking about separating their music from what it's designed for is somewhat pointless (though I suppose I would say that as I never listen to ballet music or suites without the visuals).

I'm not convinced that a filmmaker needs to be "musically erudite" to make quality cinema.

Right. It is also worth pointing out that the majority of films with good soundtracks/scores are, in terms of quality cinema, absolute rubbish.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 21, 2008, 08:23:18 AM
Hermannn never wrote anything on a high level that's even remotely comparable...

Not so: to list just the non-film Herrmann works I own:

an opera:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/HerWuth.jpg)



a cantata:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/HerrMoby.jpg)



a symphony:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/HerrmannSymphony.jpg)



a clarinet quintet:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/HerrmannQuintet.jpg)


song cycle, The Fantasticks:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/HerrmannFan.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 21, 2008, 08:32:39 AM
no sarge, he tried his hand at that stuff but it's still nowhere near the big boys i'm afraid.

Have you heard all four recordings that Sergeant Rock mentioned?  Personally, I haven't heard any of them so I have no opinion.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 21, 2008, 08:37:25 AM
no sarge, he tried his hand at that stuff but it's still nowhere near the big boys i'm afraid.

No one is near the big boys...that's why they're big  ;D  But in fact he was an excellent composer of classical music. I edited my initial post to include his great song cycle, The Fantasticks.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2008, 08:46:57 AM
No one is near the big boys...that's why they're big  ;D  But in fact he was an excellent composer of classical music. I edited my initial post to include his great song cycle, The Fantasticks.

I thought that was Henry Mancini?

(* ducks *)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 21, 2008, 08:55:44 AM
I thought that was Henry Mancini?

(* ducks *)


Bad, Karl, bad...go to your basket.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 21, 2008, 09:19:49 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7c/Looney_Tunes.png/250px-Looney_Tunes.png)

 ;D ;D ;D

(http://drx.typepad.com/psychotherapyblog/images/2007/10/23/jayne_mansfield_violin_and_dogs_2.jpg)

Famous American violinist J.Mansfield practising the Beethoven concerto, in the comforting surroundings of her own home.  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 21, 2008, 11:28:58 AM
I haven't heard all of those Don, but I have heard some of his mediocre concert works and let's just say, he was better at composing for film & tv scenes...

I haven't heard any of Herrmann's concert works, but this thread has made me curious. I think I will check out some of the CDs Sarge showed there.

While I do that, in the meantime, please explain in detail what makes these works "mediocre".
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 21, 2008, 03:04:52 PM
Herrmann's String Quartet "Echoes" is worthwhile as is his "For the Fallen", Moby Dick and  Symphony.

However, even greater, in my opinion, than Herrmann's Moby Dick cantata is Phillip Sainton's score for the movie Moby Dick (Marco Polo)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 21, 2008, 06:01:18 PM
Quality cinema? Maybe not. Quality cinema with a quality soundtrack - if he chooses to get involved with the latter? Definitely.

I am saying NO LESS than that in regards to 2001! So you are actually AGREEING with me!

So it comes full circle - you're so full of double-talking, side-switching cleverness you end up on the same side of the argument as I am. Beautiful.

Quote
BTW:
Blame? How old are you - 11?  :)


?

What you fail to notice is that when I said that I was put on the defensive by YOU. Fending off yet another of your petty insults.

And fancy that - here we are again.

Is this all you're made of? It's sad how often others on this thread have tried to engage you in genuine dialogue (like ezodisy's queries to you) yet you continue to ignore any and all. Yet your string of insults continues without end. I suppose this is how you define "erudition".



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 21, 2008, 06:35:32 PM
the 1st 3 arent known for film work...and as karl pointed out earlier if the film music is all they did they would hardly be considered at all....
What you said was: "Name me a film composer who's written something on the level of Bartok's String Quartets? Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms? Webern's Symphony Op. 21? Ligeti's Piano Etudes? Bach's Art of Fugue? etc etc etc Go ahead!" And I did. Being "known for film work" doesn't enter into it.


Hermannn never wrote anything on a high level that's even remotely comparable...same applies to any film writer or film score.
Two kinds of foolishness in one sentence. Herrmann is one of the great (unacknowledged) 20th century composers, and if he'd only written his scores for Vertigo and Psycho, that would be enough. It's a shame sheer snobbery prevents you from hearing that. Second, your underlying assertion is that it is impossible that a composer of film music ("known for film work", to use your evasive expression) could ever write what you call great music. Well, since your definition of great music explicitly excludes film music or anything written by a composer of film music, that would follow. But you are making the mistake of judging music by genre rather than by quality.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 09:31:50 PM
I see you have something of an agenda to push one composer in front of another. That's fine, I don't really want to argue about this matter of "independent entity", partly because I don't know anything about original film music and partly because I think the distinction you're making is a little bit silly.

The distinction is accepted in all circles that discuss or analyze film music. You cannot return to Adam and Eve every time you discuss film music (or any other subject).

Quote
What I'm interested in is the point you ignored -- the integration of music and film. Speaking frankly I think this is the opposite of what you like, i.e. music which is enjoyable in itself somehow fitting on top of a film for superficial emotional/climactic effect. If I'm wrong you can inform me otherwise.

Your are wrong. I wrote:

Quote
Which means that a score that is listenable when separated from the visuals serves its "function" as film scoring equally well, if not better

Which means that a score that is listenable outside of the movie can be as integrated, or better integrated, in the film than music of lesser independent stature. Jerry Goldsmith's works are the best example: eminently musical, and eminently dramatic ("dramatic" here means contributing to the drama on screen in a meaningful way = integrated).

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 09:40:57 PM
I haven't heard any of Herrmann's concert works, but this thread has made me curious. I think I will check out some of the CDs Sarge showed there.

Naxos just released their recording of Herrmann's "Echoes" (for String Quartet) with the Fine Arts Quartet. So that one comes cheap. "Echoes" is a very peculiar work in that it is comprised of ten very short episodes within a single 20-minute movement. It was written shortly after his wife had left him (tired of his throwing tantrums on even trivial matters), and the depression he felt is palpable throughout. The episodes do include two of Herrmann's favorite musical forms, the Habanera and the Valse lente, both of which can be found in many of his film scores. But it's a very "bare" and barren piece.

If I were less of a lazy bum our own recording of it might have been released already...

The works originally released on Unicorn-Kanchana, sadly, have all been out of print since that company went belly-up, including his opera WUTHERING HEIGHTS. Regis has released a number of their CDs, but none with Herrmann's music so far.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 21, 2008, 09:45:42 PM
The distinction is accepted in all circles that discuss or analyze film music. You cannot return to Adam and Eve every time you discuss film music (or any other subject).

Why not? I thought you pride yourself in always occupying the non-mainstream point of view, "challenging" whatever looks like "conventional wisdom". Now you are telling us about a catholically accepted canon of knowledge concerning how to classify film music? That doesn't make sense.

Which means that a score that is listenable outside of the movie can be as integrated, or better integrated, in the film than music of lesser independent stature. Jerry Goldsmith's works are the best example: eminently musical, and eminently dramatic ("dramatic" here means contributing to the drama on screen in a meaningful way = integrated).

I completely agree. Which is why the use of the eminently listenable music of Richard Strauss, compared to whom Jerry Goldsmith or Alex North are musical midgets, in Kubrick's "2001" makes so much sense and easily integrates with and enhances the movie's basic ideas. No wonder this use of pre-existing music in a film has attained such a classic status.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 09:49:19 PM
I am saying NO LESS than that in regards to 2001! So you are actually AGREEING with me!

No I'm not. I said that to get a quality movie with a quality score the director should know something about music, because it severely improves the chances of getting the best possible score for his "quality movie". If he doesn't, he should trust the composer on the matter to get the best result. In the case of 2001, the director didn't - instead, he ignored the composer and made his own "musical decisions", which are crass and vulgar.

BTW, Jerry Goldsmith and Alex North were not "musical midgets" (Come to think of it: If the phrase "takes one to know one" is right, then ...) in comparison to Richard Strauss. They represent pinnacles in their field, as Strauss did in his (opera - and, only partly, of the symphonic poem). Their achievement is just as worthy, as film as an art of the 20th century is just as worthy as opera. If you mean they didn't write operas as good as Strauss, you'd be right. And I never said they did (In fact, they didn't write ANY (AFAIR)).

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
Two kinds of foolishness in one sentence. Herrmann is one of the great (unacknowledged) 20th century composers, and if he'd only written his scores for Vertigo and Psycho, that would be enough. It's a shame sheer snobbery prevents you from hearing that.

Give up. The intellectually challenged just don't get it that a film score can be as great - and as sophisticated - an achievement (meaning: in the combination of film purpose and musical meaning - taken together!) as, say, a Stockhausen piece can.

In James's case it's only his continued frustration that Stockhausen isn't appreciated by more listeners  ;D.  He compares apples and oranges to satisfy his frustration. Just ignore him.

And in so doing, I'd like to mention another point of interest: What motivates a composer to write music for movies - i.e. willfully subjecting himself to exact screen timings and other technical factors.

Obviously, the lure of money is important. In no other field of "classical" music (broadly referring to orchestral music as an example) you can earn as much money as quickly as in film scoring.

Well, actually, you can: in television. Alexander Courage, Jerrold Immel and Lalo Schifrin e.g. could well have stopped composing right then and there (and retired themselves to comfortable life under on sun-drenched Floridian beaches) after they had penned the main title themes of "Star Trek", "Dallas" and "Mission Impossible", respectively - i.e. had they foreseen the enduring popularity of these shows - and the royalties this popularity would earn them. 

But it's not the only motivation. Another big factor, one that composer after composer we interviewed for our magazines emphasized, is the opportunity to hear one's music immediately after the score has been completed. A concert composer these days often doesn't enjoy this opportunity - if he or she gets to ever hear the piece at all! That's a big thing and should not be underestimated.

Also, some composers ENJOY working in a team with other professionals, so a collaborative art like film holds more appeal to them that to sit in a closed room for months and months (years and years) brooding over a piece of music he or she can't be certain anyone would ever care about. And that's a big thing, too.

Thomas

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 21, 2008, 11:18:54 PM
The distinction is accepted in all circles that discuss or analyze film music. You cannot return to Adam and Eve every time you discuss film music (or any other subject).

Your are wrong. I wrote:

Which means that a score that is listenable outside of the movie can be as integrated, or better integrated, in the film than music of lesser independent stature. Jerry Goldsmith's works are the best example: eminently musical, and eminently dramatic ("dramatic" here means contributing to the drama on screen in a meaningful way = integrated).

Thomas

Thanks for responding. You are not even scraping the top of the issue of integration so I am just going to drop it. I asked about it because you obviously know a lot about film music, which I don't, so I was expecting an interesting detailed response. Instead you're just repeating the same things about "independent" and "lesser staturre" again, and honestly that's not particularly interesting.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 21, 2008, 11:50:48 PM
Thanks for responding. You are not even scraping the top of the issue of integration so I am just going to drop it. I asked about it because you obviously know a lot about film music, which I don't, so I was expecting an interesting detailed response. Instead you're just repeating the same things about "independent" and "lesser staturre" again, and honestly that's not particularly interesting.

Sorry, but as I pointed out above, I will not involve myself into this kind of discussing the "specs" of film music as an art (i.e. the "mosaic" aspects, as Herrmann liked to refer to them) ever again - I've been through it once too often. Actually, twice too often.

Instead, I'd like to refer you to a selection of studies in film music that you might want to seek out if you'd like to know more about the history and techinque of film music:

Fred Karlin, On the Track: A Guide to Contemporary Film Scoring
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xUQn6l6WL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
- a "very technical" look at film scoring by a veteran film and TV composer, considered essential reading for those who want to enter this professional field. A bit dry for general readers, though

Roy Prendergast, Film Music: A Neglected Art : A Critical Study of Music in Films
(http://www.americanmusicpreservation.com/Images/Film%20Music%20Prendergast.jpg)
- less technical than the Karlin book, but specific enough. Makes for good reading, too.

George Burt, The Art Of Film Music
(http://daedalushowell.com/images/burtbook.jpg)
- again, very technical, and with a clear focus on the music of David Raksin. Written by a former student of Babbit and Sessions.

Royal S. Brown, Overtones and Undertones: Reading Film Music

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DTFVX5W3L._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg)
- on the aesthetics of film scoring, written by an experienced film critic.

William Darby and Jack Du Bois, American Film Music: Major Composers, Techniques, Trends, 1915-1990

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410DY9MR8PL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
- though outdated, it provides a comprehensive overview on Hollywood composers, and is often refreshingly opinionated.

There are many more, including many new ones I haven't sampled. Mind though, they are all concerned with film music for Hollywood movies.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 22, 2008, 12:15:18 AM
Do you know if the score (not a DVD) of "Logan's run" is available ? My search on the net was ...unclear.

Peter
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 12:19:27 AM
Do you know if the score (not a DVD) of "Logan's run" is available ? My search on the net was ...unclear.

Peter

I think the FSM release is still available from ScreenArchives:
http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=2555

The various releases of Logan's Run can be sampled here:
http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/catalog/soundtrackdetail.php?movieid=5629

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 22, 2008, 12:31:48 AM
Thank you!

Peter
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 02:06:59 AM
Since all of the above are concerned with American film music, here's an interesting book on film scoring in England:

Jan G. Swynnoe, The Best Years of British Film Music, 1936-1958
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LIuEIFGtL._SS500_.jpg)

While containing many insightful observations on different techniques of scoring, I found it a wee bit too chauvinistic (i.e. British film music being inherently superior to American film music).

If you want to sample monographies on individual film composers, have a look at these:

Steven C. Smith, A Heart at Fire's Center: The Life and Music of Bernard Herrmann
(http://kbaq.org/arts/books/bookofmonth/2007/April/5514001.jpg)

A must for Herrmann devotees, I can't recommend it (often) enough.

You can now reads of it on google/books: http://books.google.de/books?id=GLOheEsGd_4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=a+heart+at+fire%27s+center

Miklós Rózsa, Double Life. The Autobiography of Miklós Rózsa
(http://www.americanmusicpreservation.com/Images/Books/Double%20Life.jpg)

An entertaining autobiography that will tell you a lot about the inner workings of the Hollywood studio system. The title is suggestive of the composer's dual career in film and concert music.

Ian Johnson, William Alwyn: The Art of Film Music
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T6M8V558L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

A look at one of England's great film composers. The fact that many of those British movies are not all that well known sometimes makes it difficult to follow the individual analysis of their music scores.

Thomas

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 22, 2008, 02:29:00 AM
Sorry, but as I pointed out above, I will not involve myself into this kind of discussing the "specs" of film music as an art (i.e. the "mosaic" aspects, as Herrmann liked to refer to them) ever again - I've been through it once too often. Actually, twice too often.

That's fine, though by saying "discussing the specs of film music as an art" I don't think you've quite understood what I was looking for. I wanted to know about a composer's view of how a director integrates the music. That has very little to do with film music as an art. Most of that list of books, though perhaps interesting in a way, also appears to have nothing to do with this topic. Correct me if I'm wrong but I get the feeling that you're not particularly interested in how the director uses the music. Considering you've said that it's often the "suits" who do the choosing, I think that belittling most directors in this way is not a particularly good thing to do and will not help film music rise from its rank of obviously secondary importance in any film.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 02:37:01 AM
That's fine, though by saying "discussing the specs of film music as an art" I don't think you've quite understood what I was looking for. I wanted to know about a composer's view of how a director integrates the music.

Some of the books above discuss the nuts and bolts of film scoring. That's the job, whether it's done with or without the director's, the sound editor's or the producer's influence. It's the musical perspective, which should also be how a director would ideally approach it.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 22, 2008, 02:41:28 AM
Overtones and Undertones looks interesting at first glance, I might see if my library has that. Still, whatever the excellence of the film score, I think it's the director who chooses what goes in and what stays out, so the actual details of the scoring are irrelevant to this subject.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 02:47:03 AM
Overtones and Undertones looks interesting at first glance, I might see if my library has that. Still, whatever the excellence of the film score, I think it's the director who chooses what goes in and what stays out, so the actual details of the scoring are irrelevant to this subject.

No, they're not. Since it's a collaborative art, communication between the different artists is essential. Therefore, the more you know about the other person's job, the better the chance for a result in which all the elements click (not that this knowledge necessarily makes the process easier  ;)).

As such, it's your posts that are irrelevant to the subject of the thread, which was vadermolen's idea - an exchange on favorite film scores and composers.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 02:49:25 AM
No he's not. In the area of light-scale film maybe, but in the area of high-quality, high-integrity art music & classical composition? You must be dreaming. And nothing you say, or any amount of book covers sound67 posts with ever change that...

Incidentally, I recommended some of these books to "james" on the old board, too, with the same result: It's all just "stuff", whereas all the pieces he loves are necessarily works of genius (maybe he would feel guilty to think less of piece he admires), and only they are worth investigating. Personal commentary removed by moderator. (GB)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 02:53:04 AM
Overtones and Undertones looks interesting at first glance, I might see if my library has that.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a study that deals with "integrating music into film" from a director's perspective. A handbook on that might make an interesting read, AFAIK there is none.

I read Sidney Lumet's book Making Movies some time ago. It does include a chapter on film music (he explains parts of the process with regard to how his movies were scored), but it's not terribly specific.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 22, 2008, 02:58:37 AM
As such, it's your posts that are irrelevant to the subject of the thread

Believe it or not I am aware of that as I know what the thread is about. I specifically asked you about this as you seem to know some things about film music, though the way you tend to dismiss some directors with the suits jibe makes it obvious tha you're not really the person to ask about it. Film music is important, but I think it's pretty obvious that you're well exaggerating it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 03:06:03 AM
you don't expect me to waste my money on that crap do you?

Quod erat demonstrandum.  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Gurn Blanston on August 22, 2008, 03:24:29 AM
Alright, folks, let's tone down the rhetoric a little bit, shall we? If a civil discussion of film music is beyond our capabilities, then we won't have one. I doubt that will be necessary...

8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 04:17:56 AM
Well, I am not going to repeat myself yet again;  I shall say simply that my artistic concerns on this topic remain unaddressed.

And, folks, if you find yourself lapsing into personal remark, reflect on that fact before acting on the impulse.  It probably means that you aren't stating yourself as clearly as you imagine, that what you take for obvious Revealed Truth probably isn't anything of the sort, and that you and the other fellow aren't aligning in the discourse.

Step away for a bit, is all.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 04:28:44 AM
However, even greater, in my opinion, than Herrmann's Moby Dick cantata is Phillip Sainton's score for the movie Moby Dick (Marco Polo)

Don't quite agree on this one. While I much like the Sainton score (the playing on the original soundtrack album is much better than the Moscow readings under Stromberg), the Herrmann's Moby Dick is a vital piece of musical "Americana" and an intriguing attempt to condense the essence of the sprawling Melville novel into a dramatic cantata. John Barbirolli premiered it, and thought highly of it. Sadly, there is only Herrmann's own recording of the piece, made under adverse circumstances (detailed in the Steven Smith book), but it still packs a punch.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 22, 2008, 04:32:26 AM
Thanks, Gurn, for the judicious snippage--I felt, however, no offense in what was removed from Thomas's post, since he was simply quoting another.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm beginning to like Stockhausen even less than Elgar--although Elgar composed at least a couple of works that stand with the best IMO, I can't think of a single film he wrote for!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 05:00:08 AM
. . . an intriguing attempt to condense the essence of the sprawling Melville novel into a dramatic cantata.

Tangentially, Thos, another attempt to condense it even denser (so to speak) is Peter Mennin's Concertato: Moby-Dick.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 22, 2008, 05:40:54 AM
No I'm not. I said that to get a quality movie with a quality score the director should know something about music, because it severely improves the chances of getting the best possible score for his "quality movie". If he doesn't, he should trust the composer on the matter to get the best result. In the case of 2001, the director didn't - instead, he ignored the composer and made his own "musical decisions", which are crass and vulgar.

And who are you to decide what "musical decisions" are best for a director??!??


Quote
BTW, Jerry Goldsmith and Alex North were not "musical midgets" (Come to think of it: If the phrase "takes one to know one" is right, then ...) in comparison to Richard Strauss. They represent pinnacles in their field, as Strauss did in his (opera - and, only partly, of the symphonic poem). Their achievement is just as worthy, as film as an art of the 20th century is just as worthy as opera. If you mean they didn't write operas as good as Strauss, you'd be right. And I never said they did (In fact, they didn't write ANY (AFAIR)).

Thomas

WHERE THE @#&!% DID I SAY ANY OF THIS??!!??!!??!!??!?!!

So it's not enough to insult me, you have to dream up scenarios to connect me with!!!!

First class troll, you are.


 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 05:46:45 AM
WHERE THE @#&!% DID I SAY ANY OF THIS??!!??!!??!!??!?!!

I was referring to a comment by M forever DIRECTLY above my reply, so I felt no need for an extra "quote".

You should really try to improve your powers of observation.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 06:17:30 AM
Yes they are, & trying to compare what they do to a great composer/artist as substantial & important as Richard Strauss is well, sadly delusional. The deeply profound Last Four Songs alone pretty much floor ANYTHING you'll find in surface film fair...

You just don't get it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 22, 2008, 06:21:07 AM
BTW, Jerry Goldsmith and Alex North were not "musical midgets" (Come to think of it: If the phrase "takes one to know one" is right, then ...) in comparison to Richard Strauss. They represent pinnacles in their field, as Strauss did in his (opera - and, only partly, of the symphonic poem). Their achievement is just as worthy, as film as an art of the 20th century is just as worthy as opera. If you mean they didn't write operas as good as Strauss, you'd be right. And I never said they did (In fact, they didn't write ANY (AFAIR)).

Thomas

I really don't know how you can sit there and claim that film music is just as worthy as opera. They are on completely different levels -- no comparison at all. Or do any composers here disagree with me? Obviously film music means a lot to you sound67, enough so to somewhat dismiss the much more important director, unfortunately. But claiming this is really just a bit rich.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 06:40:34 AM
I really don't know how you can sit there and claim that film music is just as worthy as opera. They are on completely different levels -- no comparison at all. Or do any composers here disagree with me?

The chap scoring a film, and the composer of an opera, are indeed two entirely different matters, as you observe, Tony.

The film score does not even rise to the level, in its context, of the libretto.  For, no matter if the composer of the opera makes alterations to or cuts from the libretto, the libretto is the basis for the overall project in a way which it would be absurd to speak of any film score . . . which again, is one specific type of material provided to the filmmaker, who often makes alterations to whatever the film scorer supplies him, as suits the shaping of the film/movie.

To repeat:  the fellow who provides the score to a film has no say in regard to the overall composition in question;  which, BTW, is much less control than composers from Tchaikovsky on have had in the ballets they have composed, e.g..
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 06:43:20 AM
BTW, I should have objected to Thos's referring to a film score as "a cantata," only one tires of iterating the same point to someone who steadfastly ignores it  0:)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 06:53:02 AM
BTW, I should have objected to Thos's referring to a film score as "a cantata," only one tires of iterating the same point to someone who steadfastly ignores it  0:)

Ahem, it's not a film score. It IS a cantata.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/ea/4d/e8faa2c008a04657d3c63010._AA240_.L.jpg)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 06:59:06 AM
who often makes alterations to whatever the film scorer supplies him, as suits the shaping of the film/movie.

Wrong again. The composer begins his work when the final cut of the movie has already been made, thus he is able to shape the music to his own liking, adapting (but not necessarily subjecting himself) to the rhythm of the film.  It is only if the director has second thoughts about the editing that sometimes scores have to be altered or new music be written. Tru, the director can throw out individual cues or the music as a whole, but that happens very infrequently. So infrequently in fact that those rejected scores are often famous/notorious.

It's very rare are that scores get written before the final edit is completed, and even more rarely before or during principal photography. In some of the cases, like Arthur Bliss "Things to Come", the director edited the movie to fit the score!

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:02:13 AM
I really don't know how you can sit there and claim that film music is just as worthy as opera.

I didn't say that at all. I said film is just as worthy as opera, and that music is a part of that art, so that its pinnacles equal other arts in achievement.

Cole Porter e.g. couldn't have written The Four Last Songs. But Richard Strauss would have been technically and temperamentally unfit to write something like "Anything Goes". Likewise, the film composer needs different skills than somone writing a concert work - the results can still be as brilliant in their individual context. Still not clear?

And nowhere did I imply that e.g. Herrmann's Vertigo equals something like Stravinsky's Le Sacre in purely musical terms. I said that some movie music is so good it rises above its functional context and makes for rewarding listening. That's what I said. But in its function, and because of its functional as well as musical qualities, it can be just as brilliant in concept, and as a part of film art.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 07:08:01 AM
Wrong again. The composer begins his work when the final cut of the movie has already been made, thus he is able to shape the music to his own liking, adapting (but not necessarily subjecting himself) to the rhythm of the film.

Thos, it is either naive or disingenuous of you to assert that this is always the case.  And, self-important of you to set off with Wrong again.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 07:11:36 AM
Cole Porter e.g. couldn't have written The Four Last Songs. But Richard Strauss would have been technically and temperamentally unfit to write something like "Anything Goes".

Right; and Vaughan Williams could not have written "Heartbreaker," so Vaughan Williams and Pat Benatar are equal in achievement.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:12:01 AM
Thos, it is either naive or disingenuous of you to assert that this is always the case.  And, self-important of you to set off with Wrong again.

Trust me, Karl, the vast majority of film composers work that way. Guilty of self-importance (I'm sorry), not guilty on naivety.

And while I admit that to composers not used to working within exact time frames the "corset" the film provides may beem debilitating, it's part of the film composer's craft to be able to work past those restrictions.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:20:45 AM
Right; and Vaughan Williams could not have written "Heartbreaker," so Vaughan Williams and Pat Benatar are equal in achievement.

Not sure about Pat Benatar's achievement in her field, Karl (but am about Cole Porter's), so I can't say.

What I can say is that Vaughan Williams knew that Herrmann's Moby Dick is a cantata, not a film score.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 22, 2008, 07:24:21 AM
Right; and Vaughan Williams could not have written "Heartbreaker," so Vaughan Williams and Pat Benatar are equal in achievement.

But wait!  Benatar is still alive, so she has the opportunity to pass Vaughan Williams. ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:29:35 AM
But wait!  Benatar is still alive, so she has the opportunity to pass Vaughan Williams. ;D

You sure she's still performing? She must be like, 60. Haven't heard from her since "Love is a battlefield".

Yes, Karl, I do know her. But since I'm not a pop-rock historian, I'll find it difficult to rate her.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 22, 2008, 07:30:52 AM
BTW, I should have objected to Thos's referring to a film score as "a cantata"...

Karl, Herrmann's Moby Dick is a cantata for male chorus, soloists and orchestra, words by Melville. The work lasts 12 days played non-stop  ;D  Actually, according to the librettist, he made some "minor transpositions and condensations" so it's not quite as long as the novel.

As Thomas noted, the premiere was given by Barbirolli and the New York Philharmonic in April 1940. The work is dedicated to Charles Ives. Herrmann wrote, "The work is scored for large symphony orchestra, with the addition of thunder drums. The orchestra is used descriptively and as a commentary on the action. In composing Moby Dick I thought of it throughout as great literature set to music, rather than as a purely musical piece."

My LP copy:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/HerrMoby.jpg)

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:34:25 AM
The work is dedicated to Charles Ives.

Exactly. And even if Herrmann hadn't written any outstanding film scores, he would stilll have left his mark by tirelessly propagating his friend's music, as a conductor - at a time that a young opportunistic prick called Lenny Bernstein didn't even know how to spell "Ives".  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 22, 2008, 07:44:28 AM
...a young opportunistic prick called Lenny Bernstein....
Say what?!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 22, 2008, 07:45:23 AM
You sure she's still performing? She must be like, 60.
Thomas

Whatever her age, Benatar is still vocalizing.  Recently, she and her husband did a number for the soap opera "The Young and Restless".  No, I didn't watch it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 22, 2008, 07:45:31 AM
OK.OK. can we have some

(http://www.koert.com/work/zenvote/jard-zen.jpg)

now? :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:46:05 AM
Quote
Say what?!

As the man who prided himself on having re-discovered Ives ... and Mahler.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 07:46:55 AM
Quote
...called Lenny Bernstein....

As qualified as my appreciation for Bernstein is, Thos, you've gauged yourself frightfully with that comment (too).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 07:48:26 AM
As the man who prided himself on having re-discovered Ives ... and Mahler.

You're taking your feelings, and imagining a pathology on Bernstein's part, Thos.

You've got to know when to stop, and where to draw lines, fella.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:49:44 AM
It was actually an in-joke for those who know what Herrmann did besides composing film (and concert) music.

You don't know everything Karl.  :P
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: pjme on August 22, 2008, 07:54:00 AM
          :) Calm down

§         Concentrate

§         Wake up!

§         Enhance cardiovascular endurance during exercise.

 

Calm Down:

1.  Breath awareness and the 3-Part Breath.

2.  Under extreme conditions (panic, anxiety,GMG film music, anger, pain): the Inhale 4- Exhale 8 Breath.

 

Concentrate:

1.  Breath awareness and the 3-Part Breath.

2.  Alternate-nostril breathing, 1-5 minutes. (increases mental alertness but not physical arousal)

Alternate nostril cycle: Inhale through right nostril, exhale through left; inhale through left nostril, exhale through right. Repeat. Allow the breath to be slow and deep; do not hold the breath between breaths.

 

Wake up!:

1.  Breath awareness and the 3-Part Breath.

2.  The breath of fire cycle: 1-2 minutes. (increases heart rate and physical arousal)

The breath of fire cycle: 10-20 seconds of quick, powerful exhalations, pumping the belly, with short, passive inhalations, followed by a slower, deeper, 3-part part breath.

 

Enhance cardiovascular endurance during GMG film music posts:

1.  Between exercise sessions: practice the power belly breath, the no-belly power breath, and the full power breath. Goal: To develop the muscles of respiration.

The power belly breath: Deep belly breathing (belly expands and collapses) using the abdominal muscles to push the breath out fully. Practice slowly first, then develop speed.

The no-belly power breath:  Place your fists on your lower belly, and push the belly in as you inhale deeply.  This should force your upper respiratory muscles to work harder to expand the rib cage, chest, and back. Exhale normally.  Practice slowly first, then develop speed.

The full power breath: A deep breath, supported by all the muscles of respiration. This a powerful version of the 3-Part Breath. The power comes from the speed, strength, and full engagement of your respiration muscles.  ;) ;)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 07:56:20 AM
          :) Calm down

Actually, I'm pretty calm at the moment. Of course, a glass of excellent Shiraz Blanc de Noir always helps.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 22, 2008, 07:57:08 AM
It was actually an in-joke for those who know what Herrmann did besides composing film (and concert) music.

You don't know everything Karl.  :P

Yes he does - he's intelligent, handsome and from Boston.  That about wraps it up.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 22, 2008, 08:01:17 AM
As the man who prided himself on having re-discovered Ives ... and Mahler.
Gee, I've long thought that your more outrageously fatuous statements were made somewhat facetiously in an effort to stimulate thought, or at least a response...but now I'm not so sure.  You seem to be castigating Bernstein because, having attained adequate stature as conductor of the NYPO, he premiered Ives's 2nd Symphony (written 50 years before but never performed!) and continued to champion Ives throughout his career, as well as other noteworthy composers--like Mahler and Sibelius and Schuman--whom he thought under-appreciated.

Have you gone off your meds?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 08:01:49 AM
Yes he does - he's intelligent, handsome and from Boston.  That about wraps it up.

Handsome? To me he looks a lot like Stravinsky.  8)

Remember to take that walk, Don. My great grandson and you will have a lot to talk about once you've returned from that walk.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 08:03:28 AM
Gee, I've long thought that your more outrageously fatuous statements were made somewhat facetiously in an effort to stimulate thought, or at least a response...but now I'm not so sure.  You seem to be castigating Bernstein because, having attained adequate stature as conductor of the NYPO, he premiered Ives's 2nd Symphony (written 50 years before but never performed!) and continued to champion Ives throughout his career, as well as other noteworthy composers--like Mahler and Sibelius and Schuman--whom he thought under-appreciated.

Have you gone off your meds?

Herrmann conducted different Ives works years and years before Bernstein even began performing the music.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 22, 2008, 08:03:39 AM
Yes he does - he's intelligent, handsome and from Boston.  That about wraps it up.

You're very kind, Don.

In answer to the question "Do I know everything?" none can answer better than Jeeves: I could not say, sir.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 22, 2008, 08:04:40 AM
Handsome? To me he looks a lot like Stravinsky.  8)

Thomas

That's because he never changes his avatar.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 22, 2008, 08:05:08 AM
          :) Calm down

;D  Amusing, and the breathing exercises are always a good suggestion.  Just so you know, as far as I can tell from the tone of the posts on this page, no one here is upset and everyone seems to be having a good time.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Don on August 22, 2008, 08:07:17 AM
;D  Amusing, and the breathing exercises are always a good suggestion.  Just so you know, as far as I can tell from the tone of the posts on this page, no one here is upset and everyone seems to be having a good time.

You bet.  Movies are magic.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 22, 2008, 08:10:31 AM
Handsome? To me he looks a lot like Stravinsky.  8)
But taller.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 08:12:55 AM
I just looked it up. Herrmann started corresponding with Ives in 1932, when he (Herrmann) was 21. He first conducted a piece of Ives's on February 25, 1934 (the Prelude and Fugue of Ives's Fourth Symphony).

A few years later he became chief conductor of the CBS Symphony and gave weekly concerts, often of forgotten works (Raff), of English music (Vaughan Williams, Bax etc) and of contemporary American works. Barbirolli and Stokowski listened religiously to those broadcasts.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 22, 2008, 08:14:50 AM
Yes, Hermann was a strong advocate of Ives.  What has that to do with slandering Lenny?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 08:18:51 AM
I said it was an in-joke. Does one have to attach similies to everything?

It's kind of what a reviewer wrote about Herrmann's 1972 recording of Ives' 2nd Symphony, comparing it to Lenny's version:

"Herrmann parades his affections less obviously, is less of a weekend vistor from the Big City."

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on August 22, 2008, 08:27:18 AM
I said it was an in-joke. Does one have to attach similies to everything?...
Both smilies and similes can be helpful in making points. ;) (Sorry; couldn't resist.  I'm only The Spelling Police when I can mete out proper pun-ishment. ;D)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 08:31:23 AM
Great. Now it's too late to fix that blunder.

--- Trying to foresee the next pun --- No, I didn't commit any other blunders - at least not in the course of this thread.  :P

And ... moving on to an equally excellent Eden Valley Viognier from Australia.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 22, 2008, 08:44:21 AM
Herrmann conducted different Ives works years and years before Bernstein even began performing the music.

Thomas

Why are we again on this kick of damaging one artist in order to elevate another? Are we going to have to eventually put up with reading the claim that Herrmann was a better dancer than Bernstein?

This thread has been like watching all the marrow being very slowly sucked out of a bone. The process was completed many pages ago, since when it has been a splenetic sniping match.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 09:11:15 AM
Why are we again on this kick of damaging one artist in order to elevate another? Are we going to have to eventually put up with reading the claim that Herrmann was a better dancer than Bernstein?

AFAIK Herrmann didn't dance at all. As to Bernstein, I don't want to indulge in a cliche to suggest that because he was gay he was a natural dancer, so I'd just say: Don't know, don't care.

Quote
This thread has been like watching all the marrow being very slowly sucked out of a bone. The process was completed many pages ago, since when it has been a splenetic sniping match.

Various people have tried to jump-start this thread again and again. But it didn't work, because we all enjoy the banter and bickering so much.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 22, 2008, 09:14:22 AM

Various people have tried to jump-start this thread again and again. But it didn't work, because we all enjoy the banter and bickering so much.

Thomas

I can assure you they 'all' don't.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 09:15:24 AM
Actually, some enjoy both.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 22, 2008, 09:17:04 AM
Banter implies wit, I have not really seen much deployed. I think the thread was simply ground into the dust. A pity.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 09:20:25 AM
Banter implies wit.

Give it a little time. We're working on it.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 22, 2008, 09:24:06 AM
Various people have tried to jump-start this thread again and again. But it didn't work, because we all enjoy the banter and bickering so much.

Thomas

Yes I gave it a shot, admittedly with a slightly different trajectory in mind, though a shot all the same, and unfortunately it met with single-minded resistance. Sound67, I think several people here, including James, would possibly stop taunting these film composers if they were given a more sound and detailed analysis involving their worth both in and out of films. Yes people can read about it online, but who wants to bother doing that when there's someone here to spoon-feed them? In other words, you'll have to live with the jokes about how rubbish they are until you put up a detailed defence otherwise (one way to do this would be to go into the points I mentioned, as they are first and foremost film composers, and their worth will be tied to the quality of films their music was mixed in with).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 09:27:52 AM
Yes people can read about it online, but who wants to bother doing that when there's someone here to spoon-feed them?

Curious people would bother. Incidentally, by "people who have tried to jump-start this thread", I didn't mean you.

Quote
In other words, you'll have to live with the jokes about how rubbish they are until you put up a detailed defence otherwise

If you want that, you'd really need to be spoon-fed. Only mommies know how to do that.  :P

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 22, 2008, 09:31:34 AM
Curious people would bother. Incidentally, by "people who have tried to jump-start this thread", I didn't mean you.

So what did you think I was trying to do then? I suspect I am not the only person here tired of hearing you repeat the same thing over and again, hence a change of trajectory required.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 09:33:18 AM
So what did you think I was trying to do then? I suspect I am not the only person here tired of hearing you repeat the same thing over and again, hence a change of trajectory required.

Sorry, I'm preaching to the converted here.  $:)

Beginner's class is next week.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 22, 2008, 09:41:24 AM
Repeated evasion and sarcasm says everything. It's a shame, because you know a lot about film music, but seem reluctant to place it where it should be (in the context of a film). Ironically I think the way you push certain film composers actually does less for them than what you originally intend.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 22, 2008, 09:44:08 AM
Repeated evasion and sarcasm says everything.

I said: next week. That'll give you time to develop a sense of humor.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 22, 2008, 11:48:25 AM
Yes he does - he's intelligent, handsome and from Boston.  That about wraps it up.

Karl is not actually from Boston. He told me where he is from, but also made me promise never to share this horrible secret with anyone, so I can't tell you  0:)


Handsome? To me he looks a lot like Stravinsky.  8)

In real life, Karl looks more like Yogi Bear than Stravinsky  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on August 22, 2008, 11:50:29 AM
Well, it is certainly true that Stravinsky did not look at all much like Yogi Bear.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 22, 2008, 02:08:32 PM
like Bartók for instance - who was from another planet.

Possible riffs: Well, I know Hungary is a strange place, but...

or

Hey, I thought that was Stockhausen!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 22, 2008, 03:01:37 PM
I was referring to a comment by M forever DIRECTLY above my reply, so I felt no need for an extra "quote".

You should really try to improve your powers of observation.  ;D


Troll, to avoid confusion you either properly quote someone or you address the person you're referring to BY NAME!

Really very simple, for grownups.

Have you [sound67] gone off your meds?

No doubt.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 22, 2008, 04:32:03 PM
A new subtopic for Vandermelon's thread, if you will:

What are some soundtracks that you enjoy that have been connected to a movie released in the past six or seven years?  The reason I ask, is that I have bought very little in recent years and was wondering what efforts I should check out.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 23, 2008, 01:32:34 AM
(http://filmmusic.ru/images/War_Of_The_Worlds.JPG)

Partially at least a return to form for John Williams. More so I think than the recent Star Wars scores.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 23, 2008, 03:23:09 AM
What are some soundtracks that you enjoy that have been connected to a movie released in the past six or seven years?

Few soundtracks this century have blown me away like the classics but these four I enjoy. Since you like Zimmer's Crimson Tide (I do too, very much) and Gladiator, you might want to check out Black Hawk Down and The Last Samurai. Horner's A Beautiful Mind is low key and moody, with some haunting melodies and a minimalist, Nymanesque feel to some of the tracks. Goldsmith's The 13th Warrior has become a favorite of Mrs. Rock's. The music sounds like the exotic Hollywood epics from the 50s, early 60s with a little spaghetti western thrown in, and of course has Goldsmith's weird and signature orchestral effects to further spice up the stew.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/julygmg/BlackHawk.jpg)

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/julygmg/Lastsamurai.jpg)

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/julygmg/BeautifulMind.jpg)

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/julygmg/13Warrior.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 23, 2008, 03:33:36 AM
(http://filmmusic.ru/images/War_Of_The_Worlds.JPG)

Partially at least a return to form for John Williams. More so I think than the recent Star Wars scores.

Thomas

I haven't heard this (or seen the film...I have a severe allergy to Tom Cruise) but I do like Williams. In the Potter film he seemed to be coasting. But if this is better I should invest.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 23, 2008, 03:38:08 AM
Now that you remind me: The third Harry Potter had a very good score from Williams, some exciting set-pieces. War of the Worlds, of course, is much darker colored.

(http://www.filmmusik2000.de/harry3big.jpg)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 23, 2008, 03:38:41 AM
I have a severe allergy to Tom Cruise.
Yes.  His apparent popularity and success--along with that of Jim Carrey--is one of the most puzzling phenomena of our age, and doubtless an indicator of decadence so far advanced that we must surely be in the end times! 

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 23, 2008, 03:41:32 AM
The problems he's having putting "Valkyrie" together may indicate his luck is running out.

(http://www.cinemaretro.com/uploads/tom-cruise-valkyrie.jpg)

46, and he still looks like a boy dressing up for Halloween.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 23, 2008, 03:45:19 AM
Now that you remind me: The third Harry Potter had a very good score from Williams, some exciting set-pieces. War of the Worlds, of course, is much darker colored.

(http://www.filmmusik2000.de/harry3big.jpg)

Thomas

That I haven't heard it (apart from the film, I mean). I only own the first...the Socerer's (Philosopher's) Stone?

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 23, 2008, 03:49:15 AM
The problems he's having putting "Valkyrie" together may indicate his luck is running out.

(http://www.cinemaretro.com/uploads/tom-cruise-valkyrie.jpg)

46, and he still looks like a boy dressing up for Halloween.  ;D

Thomas

Yes, exaclty. He was brilliant in Risky Business but failed to grow up in subsequent films. Maybe Tropic Thunder will convince me he's worth something.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on August 23, 2008, 04:01:52 AM
Yes, exaclty. He was brilliant in Risky Business but failed to grow up in subsequent films. Maybe Tropic Thunder will convince me he's worth something.
Why?  Does he play a complete asshole, as in Magnolia?  I'm not sure that giving a convincing portrayal of himself demonstrates any ability as an actor. 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 23, 2008, 04:14:26 AM
Why?  Does he play a complete asshole, as in Magnolia?  I'm not sure that giving a convincing portrayal of himself demonstrates any ability as an actor. 

Asshole + comedy might convince me, yes  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 23, 2008, 05:31:04 AM
Now that you remind me: The third Harry Potter had a very good score from Williams, some exciting set-pieces. War of the Worlds, of course, is much darker colored.

(http://www.filmmusik2000.de/harry3big.jpg)

Thomas

Actually, we have this one Thomas....I beliveve I enjoyed the second score (Chamber of Secrets) more, but will give this a spin seeing it has been quite a while.  As for the War of the Worlds score, I disliked the movie so much that it was difficult pay attention to the music.  I will look for this one as well, and listen to the music on just its own account.

Sarge,
After your blip, that 13th Warrior one is now on my list as well.  As for a Beautiful Mind: For as much grief as I give Horner for not breaking away from"his sound", I sure seem to have a decent handful of just that on my shelf.  Maybe I have not dug into enough of his scores to paint a complete picture of his works.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 23, 2008, 05:40:24 AM
As for Cruise, these four worked very well for me and are now favorites:

Mission Impossible (1996)
Minority Report (2002)
Collateral (2004)
Mission Impossible III (2006)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 23, 2008, 10:00:07 AM
Minority Report (2002)

Agree he is a good fit, and that the movie overall is nicely done.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 23, 2008, 12:18:43 PM
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/julygmg/13Warrior.jpg)

I liked that movie. It had some weaknesses, but overall, they took more care in creating a "realistic", "historical" athmosphere than many movies do. Great sets and scenery, too. I also liked the idea that what looked like a "fantasy" story with a monster turned out to be an, at least in theory, possible encounter with a surviving pocket of Neanderthals in a very remote area, and that Crichton had taken his inspiration from an authentic text from that period, the account of the Arabian Ibn Fadlan of his travels to the lands of the northern barbarians in the 10th century. What an incredible adventure that must have been!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on August 23, 2008, 02:39:24 PM


     Interesting, M. It sounds like a rental in the near future.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 23, 2008, 02:54:43 PM
Actually, I don't remember specifically if the bad guys in the movie were supposed to be Neanderthals or just really wild modern people who still lived in a deep stone age culture. In the book, IIRC, they are supposed to be Neanderthals. The book is pretty good, too, BTW. It has no pictures, but to make up for that, it is fairly short.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on August 23, 2008, 03:11:27 PM


    M is pulling our collective legs (we're in the way of a millipede). Bad M!

    I refuse to rent this film unless the bad guys are Russians. >:( They sound like Russians to me, all Neanderthal and everything, a well documented fact.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 23, 2008, 03:36:29 PM
What legs am I pulling? That is the story of the book/movie (its rough outlines, at least). Well, the bad guys live in an a remote area somewhere in Eastern Europe, and the "Vikings" that Ibn Fadlan met were the people referred to as "Rus" who came from Sweden and who founded Russia by ruling the local population. So, if you want, you can see the bad guys as some sort of evil proto-Russians (they also wear fur caps).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on August 23, 2008, 03:44:45 PM
What legs am I pulling? That is the story of the book/movie (its rough outlines, at least). Well, the bad guys live in an a remote area somewhere in Eastern Europe, and the "Vikings" that Ibn Fadlan met were the people referred to as "Rus" who came from Sweden and who founded Russia by ruling the local population. So, if you want, you can see the bad guys as some sort of evil proto-Russians (they also wear fur caps).

    M, you may not believe this, but I was just joking about Russians. So this is about the "Rus"? It seems I joked at the wrong time. I know some of what you're saying, so that makes it more interesting. I'll have to rent it now.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 23, 2008, 03:53:26 PM
I wasn't joking though. They really wear fur caps. With horns. IIRC.

The book and the movie are totally fictional, of course, but Ibn Fadlan's accounts aren't. They are among the most important written testimonies about the "Vikings" and extremely interesting to read.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 23, 2008, 05:45:57 PM
Probably not the right thread, but we played The Money Pit with Tom Hanks in the store the other day and strangely enough, one of Handel's organ concertos popped up repeatedly throughout the movie. Strange, because AFAIK those concertos haven't made the jump to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik or O Fortuna pop culture status.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 23, 2008, 05:48:51 PM
    M, you' may not believe this, but I was just joking about Russians.

Anyone would have seen that for a joke, Ernie.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 23, 2008, 05:51:23 PM
Probably not the right thread, but we played The Money Pit with Tom Hanks in the store the other day and strangely enough, one of Handel's organ concertos popped up repeatedly throughout the movie. Strange, because AFAIK those concertos haven't made the jump to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik or O Fortuna pop culture status.

This is the disused thread you were looking for (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,8338.0.html)  8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 23, 2008, 11:46:07 PM
Actually, we have this one Thomas....I beliveve I enjoyed the second score (Chamber of Secrets) more

BTW, Chamber of Secrets was scored by William Ross, based on Williams's themes. It's been reported that Williams was so dissatisfied  with Ross's work he decided to take on the next one himself (again).

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on August 24, 2008, 12:43:50 AM
BTW, Chamber of Secrets was scored by William Ross, based on Williams's themes. It's been reported that Williams was so dissatisfied  with Ross's work he decided to take on the next one himself (again).

I was not aware of that. I only have the first one (Philosopher's Stone) on CD and I find Williams's music (the main themes at least) quite inspired.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 24, 2008, 05:04:35 AM
BTW, Chamber of Secrets was scored by William Ross, based on Williams's themes. It's been reported that Williams was so dissatisfied  with Ross's work he decided to take on the next one himself (again).

Thomas

Huh? Did not know that.  On the cover it says Music Composed by John Williams and under in smaller print Music Adapted andConducted by William Ross.  Johnny may want to relisten and give Ross a "high-five" here.  Fawkes the Phoenix (track two) is some of the most gorgeous music I have ever heard, and that goes for any genre.  Maybe Johnny realized this as well and that is why he truly came back.  8)

What is truly unfortunate is that Chris Columbus stopped directing the movies after the second installment (now it has turned into a turnstile).  Top this with  the death of actor Richard Harris in the role of Professor Albus Dumbledore.  In short,  they have fallen off for me and have moments of capturing the books, but little more than that. 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on August 24, 2008, 06:57:45 AM
Hollywood pays well too. You'd figure the famous and rich ones (i.e. John Williams) would try their hands at something a little more serious & substantial...and conversely, perhaps some composers of the past (ie Prokofiev, Shostakovich) did it in-part because they needed the money? I think Schoenberg & Stravinsky who lived in Hollywood were offered but they turned it down.

    I don't know why composers aren't more attracted to writing concert music. Watching the Mike Leigh movie about G & S you see Sullivan lamenting "I haven't written a symphony in 20 years". It seems like an antiquated notion today, that concert music has some extra dimension. Perhaps it has by subtraction, since it must stand on its own. I don't assume that the better film composers are incapable (I don't think we're talking about Walton or Prokofiev). They are providing as much as film allows for and I don't assume they can't provide more if they apply themselves to the concert music problem. If they don't it's because concert music is a tough racket to break into with it own cultic pretentions. A film composer will not be given a pass. John Williams has been roughed up quite nicely here, and one can only imagine what bile would accompany the premiere of a symphony.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: lukeottevanger on August 24, 2008, 07:11:21 AM

What is truly unfortunate is that Chris Columbus stopped directing the movies after the second installment (now it has turned into a turnstile).  Top this with  the death of actor Richard Harris in the role of Professor Albus Dumbledore.  In short,  they have fallen off for me and have moments of capturing the books, but little more than that. 

This is interestingly entirely opposed to the view of the BBC's Mark Kermode, who is passionate to the point of obsession and always worth a listen. In his opinion Columbus's HP films are just moviemaking by numbers, with no darkness, depth or directorial imagination to them - he calls Columbus 'the accountant'!  ;D  OTOH in his view the post-Columbus films take the franchise to much more interesting places, being conceived as film first and foremost, rather than merely as a visual version of the book. Kermode prides himself on this purist approach to film - it doesn't matter whether or not the film is faithful to the book, it must work on its own terms. In his view the Columbus films don't, and those afterwards do, to the extent that, rather surprisingly, he even thought one of them (no 4, I think) was one of the films of the year.

I mention this merely for interests' sake - because it surprises me that your view is so diametrically opposed to this one, which is also the one I've generally picked up on elsehwere. Personally I don't have a view on the matter!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 24, 2008, 07:22:28 AM
Quote
I think Schoenberg & Stravinsky who lived in Hollywood were offered but they turned it down.

James doesn't know squad. Stravinsky very much wanted to score films, but the one time he tried, he failed.

Rózsa, who knew Stravinsky quite well in their Hollywood days tells the story in his autobiography. Stravinsky was offered a WWII actioner, Commandos Strike at Dawn. But he started writing the music before even the script had been completed, let alone the movie been made. He simply didn't understand the process. He made another mistake not having a contract signed before he proceeded to write the music, which means he didn't even get paid. Apparently, it was this "double failure" that prevented him from trying again.

Schoenberg was indeed not too keen on writing film music, but then Hollywood had little use for him either. He was approached only once, by Irving Thalberg, who asked him under which circumstances he could be persuaded to score the Luise Rainer epic The Good Earth. Schoenberg not only demanded a fee of 50,000 USD (greedy bugger), but he also made other demands, such as that all the actors in the film would have to deliver their dialogue in "Sprechstimme" mode. Apparently he did make some sketches on the music, but negotiations collapsed. Schoenberg also had no sense of humor, a quality needed for film work. He would have LOVED "James".

Stravinsky not writing film music because his ARTIISTIC INTEGRITY prevented him? How very funny. He would have written jingles had he been asked to.

Concert composers often failed because of their inability to understand the collaborative process of film-making and the demands it makes on the composer. Villa-Lobos committed to the same mistake Stravinsky had made: he was offered the score to Green Mansions, accepted, and proceeded to write the music down at home on the basis of the shooting script, before the film had been made. Bronislaw Kaper, the composer of such beautiful scores as Mutiny on the Bounty (1962), The Swan and Lord Jim, had to fit the score to the film as best he could. Villa Lobos used his material for an orchestral suite. 

Copland OTOH did great (and was honestly disappointed he didn't get asked more often), as did Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Virgil Thomson and Vaughan Williams. In recent times, Corigliano and his pupil Elliot Goldenthal have both done very well.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on August 24, 2008, 07:37:20 AM
    
Anyone would have seen that for a joke, Ernie.

     I'll address my remarks to anyone, then.  :)

   
James doesn't know squad. Stravinsky very much wanted to score films, but the one time he tried, he failed.

Rózsa, who knew Stravinsky quite well in their Hollywood days tells the story in his autobiography. Stravinsky was offered a WWII actioner, Commandos Strike at Dawn. But he started writing the music before even the script had been completed, let alone the movie been made. He simply didn't understand the process. He made another mistake not having a contract signed before he proceeded to write the music, which means he didn't even get paid. Apparently, it was this "double failure" that prevented him from trying again.

Schoenberg was indeed not too keen on writing film music, but then Hollywood had little use for him either. He was approached only once, by Irving Thalberg, who asked him under which circumstances he could be persuaded to score the Luise Rainer epic The Good Earth. Schoenberg not only demanded a fee of 50,000 USD (greedy bugger), but he also made other demands, such as that all the actors in the film would have to deliver their dialogue in "Sprechstimme" mode. Apparently he did make some sketches on the music, but negotiations collapsed. Schoenberg also had no sense of humor, a quality needed for film work. He would have LOVED "James".

Stravinsky not writing film music because his ARTIISTIC INTEGRITY prevented him? How very funny. He would have written jingles had he been asked to.

Concert composers often failed because of their inability to understand the collaborative process of film-making and the demands it makes on the composer. Villa-Lobos committed to the same mistake Stravinsky had made: he was offered the score to Green Mansions, accepted, and proceeded to write the music down at home on the basis of the shooting script, before the film had been made. Bronislaw Kaper, the composer of such beautiful scores as Mutiny on the Bounty (1962), The Swan and Lord Jim, had to fit the score to the film as best he could. Villa Lobos used his material for an orchestral suite.

Copland OTOH did great (and was honestly disappointed he didn't get asked more often), as did Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Virgil Thomson and Vaughan Williams. In recent times, Corigliano and his pupil Elliot Goldenthal have both done very well.

Thomas

     Great stuff, thanks. Goldenthal sounds like someone who could inhabit both worlds (oops...he does). Rózsa wrote a fine violin concerto that was also prominent in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, my favorite Holmes film (dir. by Billy Wilder).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 24, 2008, 07:43:25 AM
This is interestingly entirely opposed to the view of the BBC's Mark Kermode, who is passionate to the point of obsession and always worth a listen. In his opinion Columbus's HP films are just moviemaking by numbers, with no darkness, depth or directorial imagination to them - he calls Columbus 'the accountant'!  ;D  OTOH in his view the post-Columbus films take the franchise to much more interesting places, being conceived as film first and foremost, rather than merely as a visual version of the book. Kermode prides himself on this purist approach to film - it doesn't matter whether or not the film is faithful to the book, it must work on its own terms. In his view the Columbus films don't, and those afterwards do, to the extent that, rather surprisingly, he even thought one of them (no 4, I think) was one of the films of the year.

I mention this merely for interests' sake - because it surprises me that your view is so diametrically opposed to this one, which is also the one I've generally picked up on elsehwere. Personally I don't have a view on the matter!

Wow.  Interesting take.  I can see making accommodations for the book (combining characters, leaving out subplots, etc.).  The view he has on it doesn't matter whether or not the film is faithful to the book is one I do not share, unless the book is just "not very good", which leads to an avalanche of subjectivity, I am sure.  However, as a ring shot at his philosophy, all I can say is that his type of thinking is why we are yet to have a decent film version of the first Tarzan book due to the fact that Burroghs' masterpiece seems to always get changed to the point where it becomes unrecognizable.  So, I would contend in some cases, and I would include the Potter books, painting exactly by the numbers might not be such a bad idea....IMO.  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 24, 2008, 07:47:20 AM
This is the work that originated in the score to Green Mansions:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61rwc577c3L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

In the liner notes, conductor Alfred Heller made the mistake of attributing Villa-Lobos's failure to Hollywood, and in particular to poor old Bronislaw Kaper (A colleague of Rózsa's at MGM at the time). He jumped to the conclusion that of course it must have been the Hollywood studio that messed up, not the great, great, great concert composer. And he did not do any research on the subject.

He pulled a James, so to speak.  >:D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 24, 2008, 07:58:13 AM
It was in it's infancy then and he was probably curious about it but never took it seriously to re-consider trying more.

Yes, movies really were in their respective infancy in 1937 (The Good Earth) and 1942 (Commandos Strike at Dawn). LOL!!!  ;D

Quote
He (and Schoenberg), both bonafide musical geniuses were far too artistic for that shit anyway, whether they scored a film or not is immaterial...

Hey, another turn by 180 degrees. Keep 'em coming.  :o
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 24, 2008, 08:39:27 AM
Camille Saint-Saens, L'Assassinat du duc de Guise (1908)

Arthur Honegger, La Roue (1923)

George Antheil, Ballet mécanique (1924)
 
Arthur Honegger, Napoleon (1927)

Arthur Bliss, Things to Come (1936)

Sergei Prokofiev, Lieutenant Kije (1934)

Sergei Prokofiev, Alexander Newsky (1938)

Ahhh, those glorious infant days of cinema.  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 24, 2008, 08:47:13 AM
Sorry, no takers.  ;D

Now, having mentioned Antheil, here's another fine score of his':

(http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/images/cd/large/Agony_andecstacy_CNS5001.jpg)

And, look, it's coupled with another great North score, too. Coincidence, coincidence.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 24, 2008, 12:35:08 PM
In the tray:

(http://www.filmmusik2000.de/harry3big.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on August 24, 2008, 12:44:30 PM
Wow.  Interesting take.  I can see making accommodations for the book (combining characters, leaving out subplots, etc.).  The view he has on it doesn't matter whether or not the film is faithful to the book is one I do not share, unless the book is just "not very good", which leads to an avalanche of subjectivity, I am sure.  However, as a ring shot at his philosophy, all I can say is that his type of thinking is why we are yet to have a decent film version of the first Tarzan book due to the fact that Burroghs' masterpiece seems to always get changed to the point where it becomes unrecognizable.  So, I would contend in some cases, and I would include the Potter books, painting exactly by the numbers might not be such a bad idea....IMO.  ;)

Come on, you didn't the think the Tarzan movie with Bo Derek was an epic filmic masterwork?  :D

I also agree with what that author said. Not so much about the "painting by numbers" or not, but about that that first movie directed by Chris Columbus was just totally unoriginal, mainstream, uninteresting, safe, too tailored to the very narrow expectations of the American mainstream audience (which also explains why you thought it was so good  ;) ) to be interesting as a film as such. It was just a merchandising product. I have seen 2 or 3 of the other movies but don't really remember what I thought about them since I lost interest in the subject. I even read 3 or 4 of the books and found them rather entertaining and with a well defined, for books for young people surprisingly dark and intense, athmosphere which I think Columbus missed completely. And deliberately, of course, not because he didn't know better.
It would have been interesting to have some like Terry Gilliam direct those movies. I remember reading somewhere that he was Rowling's first choice, but the American producers objected. Dunno if that is true though.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: lukeottevanger on August 24, 2008, 12:55:16 PM
Come on, you didn't the think the Tarzan movie with Bo Derek was an epic filmic masterwork?  :D

I also agree with what that author said. Not so much about the "painting by numbers" or not, but about that that first movie directed by Chris Columbus was just totally unoriginal, mainstream, uninteresting, safe, too tailored to the very narrow expectations of the American mainstream audience (which also explains why you thought it was so good  ;) ) to be interesting as a film as such.

Just FWIW Mark Kermode is a rado and TV film critic, not an author - certainly the best known film critic in Britain, and a compulsive listen even for someone like me who doesn't see that many films (I believe the podcast of his film reviews is or was the second most downloaded podcast in the world!). 'Painting by numbers' and the rest of it was my interpretation of his views, but I think it's quite accurate, having made a point of listening to his reveiws faithfully every week for two or three years now.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 24, 2008, 12:56:06 PM
Come on, you didn't the think the Tarzan movie with Bo Derek was an epic filmic masterwork?  :D
LOL.

Come on, you didn't the think the Tarzan movie with Bo Derek was an epic filmic masterwork?  :D

I also agree with what that author said. Not so much about the "painting by numbers" or not, but about that that first movie directed by Chris Columbus was just totally unoriginal, mainstream, uninteresting, safe, too tailored to the very narrow expectations of the American mainstream audience (which also explains why you thought it was so good  ;) ) to be interesting as a film as such.

Don't make me go and get a bigger boat. (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:MfBAQV33fItRzM:http://paxarcana.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/roy_scheider.jpg)  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 24, 2008, 02:00:43 PM
Just finished the Potter disc above....it was decent ride (did enjoy track 20 a bit more than that), but I still enjoy the earlier installments more.

Now, some Goldsmith:

(http://www.spiralfrog.com/sfimages/covers/pop/cov200/drd400/d436/d436052qg0x.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Senta on August 24, 2008, 05:23:12 PM
In the tray:

(http://www.filmmusik2000.de/harry3big.jpg)

This really is a very good score, and this is still my favorite out of all the Potter films. A shame about the recent ones though - uninvolving, lackluster scores and direction.

I was sucked into watching Azkaban again on TV today and Alfonso Cuaron did such a good job with it, especially navigating with the tricky narrative which included a going back in time sequence. I love his washed out pallete and the more gritty, rundown look of the sets too.

Williams' score makes good use of interesting leitmotives for different characters, and the style of writing runs the gamut, a quaint, Renaissance flavor at times, wistful melodies, and nice percussive/action cues. The choral piece "Double Trouble" is a charming take on the witches' cauldron text from Macbeth.

The first two films are pretty good as well, candy-colored and aimed for a children's audience, and the first score is great, where he basically sets up the main themes that were, and still are, the basis for the following scores.

Quote from: sound67
In recent times, Corigliano and his pupil Elliot Goldenthal have both done very well.

Yeah, they have...funny, I tend to forget about Corigliano's film scores, and likewise with Goldenthal's concert works. Corigliano's score for Red Violin is gorgeous, I believe the recording had Joshua Bell as soloist with the Philharmonia. Altered States is also really cool.

Goldenthal has written some great things for both film and theater in collaboration with his partner, director Julie Taymor, like the score for the film Frida, about Frida Kahlo. Other good scores of his: Batman Forever, Titus, Alien 3, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. He has a really imaginative, unique, often wacky style of writing, which is quite fun to listen to. Definitely a different style from many film composers.

I would love to hear their recent opera Grendel (http://www.operawest.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=9), the ballet Othello (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Goldenthal-Othello/dp/B000024AQ3) is highly recommendable. I like what I have heard too of his oratorio Fire, Water, Paper, and also the Juan Darien mass.

Quote from: vandermolen
The unused North score for 2001 reminds me a bit of Jerry Goldsmith's fine Planet of the Apes music. I find it difficult to judge without the visuals and I have the R Strauss/Ligeti/Khachaturian score deeply ingrained in me since I saw the film 8 times in a row at the Odeon Leicester Square in 1968 (on the big screen....those were the days), when I was 13. I wish there was a DVD where you could programme either score to accompany the film, as is the case with the Ron Goodwin/William Walton scores for Battle of Britain (1969).

I still haven't gotten around to hearing the North score, but I have heard some interesting things about it. A lot of people seem to think while it's nice to have and to get to hear, they still prefer Kubrick's choices. I suspect I would as well, actually, I wouldn't change a thing about the original music. I think the music makes the thought-provoking visuals even more so, creating unusual, almost-eerie juxtapositions.

Quote from: Corey
Should you lay the blame on Beethoven because his string quartets don't make good dinner music? Of course not, because that isn't what they were made for. The examples I listed are merely scores that have a high degree of craftsmanship and complement the images they were created for — and really, that is all I expect a film score to be.

Good one Corey. ;) I was amazed to see how long this thread has become. I have seen some of the disagreements above, but it's not like we're trying to compare John Adams to John Williams here, film music is just a completely different medium that has to be judged on its own terms. The process of composition itself is so radically different anyway, usually being done at the behest of a director who has possibly temp tracked the movie with one of your colleagues' scores, or perhaps your own previous work, and he says here, this is what we want. In 6 weeks please? Or often the temp track is classical music - one reason why there is so much reference. And if they don't like what you have written, if it doesn't test well with audiences, they just toss it away and find someone else who will be the yes man. Two notable recent cases where that happened were Gabriel Yared with the movie Troy, and Howard Shore with King Kong.

Quote from: sound67
It is certainly true that most film (or worse, TV) scores do not stand up well on an album. Only, let's say, 10-15% do, and even that might just be too optimistic an estimate. If you judged film music solely by today's standards, the picture would be pretty dire indeed. Orchestral music, if employed at all, is very often limited to a simple, monotonous droning, sustained pedal points that underline moments of suspense e.g. This influence can be more or less attributed to Hans Zimmer and Media Ventures, which is why I think this music "factory" has had such a disastrous impact on film music in general.

There are a few decent Zimmer scores, but most do just plain sound alike due to heavy use of synthesizers and samples, and lots of repetition. For film music lovers, Zimmer is much maligned because his scoring approach seems to be contributing to the downfall of the use of the good old-fashioned symphony orchestra in film music. He runs the scoring house Media Ventures (now called Remote Control, which many find amusing) which employs a stable of young composers, and they seem to receive an almost disproportionate amount of scoring assignments. Their synthesized, cut-and-paste approach allows for quick (and cheaper) assembly-line scoring by committee, with often several working on one film, so an individual voice in the finished product becomes lost.

One reason John Williams continues to be so popular in film music, is that he still writes very well for orchestra, which arguably requires more compositional craftsmanship than programming MIDI samples. A lot of people feel less and less great scores are being written these days, compared to earlier decades, and part of it is nostalgia for the traditional orchestral approach, which John Williams represents. Unfortunately, he is not young anymore, and many of his generation who also still used this style of writing have recently passed away.  :-\ There are a few younger composers who show promise though, such as Dario Marianelli, Alexandre Desplat, and Michael Giacchino.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 24, 2008, 06:53:50 PM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41mrH3Tg0SL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Solaris-Cliff-Martinez/dp/B00008IHLL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1219635219&sr=1-1)
No samples, sadly.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 25, 2008, 04:30:30 AM
The music for Brazil is brilliantly suited to the film;  a lot of it is either arrangement of the pop tune which gave the film its title, or orchestral bits taking musical ideas from that tune as material.  (But, of course, there is another score which is not really a composition.)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 25, 2008, 04:36:51 AM
Not so, Karl.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 25, 2008, 04:38:22 AM
Thos, you apparently have no idea how little your assertions and contradictions mean at this stage.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ChamberNut on August 25, 2008, 04:41:51 AM
(http://www.bittermancircle.com/my%20images/BeatDeadHorse.gif)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 25, 2008, 04:50:44 AM
Yeah, they have...funny, I tend to forget about Corigliano's film scores, and likewise with Goldenthal's concert works. Corigliano's score for Red Violin is gorgeous, I believe the recording had Joshua Bell as soloist with the Philharmonia.

He also premiered the "Red Violin Concerto" derived from the film music. I heard him with Marin Alsop at the Proms, the UK premiere. Gorgeous piece. But, film score wise, I'd say that both Altered States and Revolution (horrible film btw) are the more important.

Quote
Goldenthal has written some great things for both film

Like teacher, like student.  ;D

Quote
There are a few decent Zimmer scores, but most do just plain sound alike due to heavy use of synthesizers and samples, and lots of repetition. For film music lovers, Zimmer is much maligned because his scoring approach seems to be contributing to the downfall of the use of the good old-fashioned symphony orchestra in film music. He runs the scoring house Media Ventures (now called Remote Control, which many find amusing)

When they rechristen it again, maybe they'll choose Auto Pilot.  :)

Quote
which employs a stable of young composers, and they seem to receive an There are a few younger composers who show promise though, such as Dario Marianelli, Alexandre Desplat, and Michael Giacchino.

Mentioned the exact same names earlier. Shows how few there are ...  :-\

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 25, 2008, 04:58:03 AM
Played the Zimmer Gladiator score today, which I like as I do Gregson-Williams's Narnia Score. I can understand why some people are very critical of this type of music but I feel that both scores worked well in context.

The end of the traditional symphony orchestra soundtrack score may date back to the Bernard Herrmann/Alfred Hitchcock dispute over the score for "Torn Curtain".
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 25, 2008, 05:00:19 AM
Please? Star Wars, Star Trek, Jaws, Indiana Jones, etc.etc.etc.?  :o

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 25, 2008, 05:01:53 AM
Played the Zimmer Gladiator score today, which I like as I do Gregson-Williams's Narnia Score. I can understand why some people are very critical of this type of music but I feel that both scores worked well in context.

And indeed, that is what they ought to do.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 25, 2008, 05:03:28 AM
Karl, you're a continual disappointment. All this has been discussed here over and over.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 25, 2008, 05:19:28 AM
Just begun "FLAC'ing" my Hindemith CDs, one of them is an intriguing (silent-)film score written for an ensemble of Salonorchester size.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61HC114TJAL._SL500_AA240_.gif)

Unfortunately it is not possible to assess its impact in the film, since no copy of Fanck's Im Kampf mit dem Berge has survived.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Senta on August 25, 2008, 09:30:56 AM
A new subtopic for Vandermelon's thread, if you will:

What are some soundtracks that you enjoy that have been connected to a movie released in the past six or seven years?  The reason I ask, is that I have bought very little in recent years and was wondering what efforts I should check out.

Thanks.


Hey Bogey,

There are a few standouts in recent years that I'd recommend highly:

John Williams: Memoirs of a Geisha (2005) Beautiful, subtle Oriental-themed score with prominent cello, Yo-Yo Ma has performed this music often in concert with Williams recently.

John Williams: The Terminal (2004) So underrated! Belies Williams' original roots as a jazz pianist, lush, romantic with jazz harmonies and some delightful clarinet work.

Also definitely his Catch Me If You Can (2002), with the 60s jazz references is very good and War of the Worlds (2005) for something rather more dark. Munich I never got into so much, though many like it.

You mentioned as well you like jazz scores, so a couple to try there would be:

Rolfe Kent: Sideways (2004) - Groovy jazz combo score and a cute film as well.

Michael Giacchino: The Incredibles (2004) - Basically an updated take on John Barry's Bond music for this Pixar animated film, very enjoyable listen.

Um...let's see....another children's movie that had a very good score was The Polar Express (2004) by Alan Silvestri, which had a nice title song too.

A few more lovely scores:

Alexandre Desplat: Girl With a Pearl Earring (2003) - Very beautiful, haunting score which reminds of Phillip Glass...this was for the film about Vermeer's famous painting.

George Fenton: Deep Blue (2003) - This is another arrangement of his great music for the BBC nature series Blue Planet about ocean life, Deep Blue was the film version and was actually recorded by the Berlin Phil.

James Newton Howard: The Village (2004) - Gorgeous music, like a mashup of Part's Tabula Rasa and VW Lark Ascending, with Hilary Hahn as soloist.

James Newton Howard: Lady in the Water (2006) - Yeah, the film sucked, but the score was magical...one of those better away from the film...

Howard usually writes very good efforts as above for director M. Night Shyamalan, though the films are kinda....hit or miss. Signs (2002) is another impressive one, with some cool minmalistic writing and fun nods to Herrmann.

Also can't go without mentioning Phillip Glass and The Illusionist (2006), he's written a few scores in recent years which sound similar to some degree, but this one was my favorite.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 25, 2008, 04:35:17 PM

Glass wrote a soundtrack for the Lugosi Dracula - it's on the DVD, played by the Kronos Quartet. He was going for that air of strange unease that modern quartet writing can achieve, but I found it only adequate.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 25, 2008, 06:25:42 PM
Michael Giacchino: The Incredibles (2004) - Basically an updated take on John Barry's Bond music for this Pixar animated film, very enjoyable listen.


Thanks for the post.  The funny thing about the above is that Barry was hired to do this score, but then let Pixar know that he did not want to use the "Bond sound" for the score.   :o  So they said that they will get someone that will.  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 25, 2008, 06:27:11 PM
Glass wrote a soundtrack for the Lugosi Dracula - it's on the DVD, played by the Kronos Quartet. He was going for that air of strange unease that modern quartet writing can achieve, but I found it only adequate.
 

Agreed. The cover was better than the music.

(http://photos-747.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/genericv2/283/56/01AwcAXzCyWJEAAAABAAAAASDi88M:.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on August 25, 2008, 11:25:44 PM
Please? Star Wars, Star Trek, Jaws, Indiana Jones, etc.etc.etc.?  :o

Thomas

Of these only the score for Jaws would be on my list worthy to stand alongside the Nine Symphonies of Beethoven and the four by Brahms, eight and three-quarters by Bruckner etcetcetc  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 27, 2008, 05:30:00 AM
Of these only the score for Jaws would be on my list worthy to stand alongside the Nine Symphonies of Beethoven and the four by Brahms, eight and three-quarters by Bruckner etcetcetc  ;D

 ;D

Seriously though, there have been many powerful "symphonic" scores in (Hollywood) films since TORN CURTAIN, though I'd agree it is a case study why it went out of fashion between, say, 1965 and the early 70s - until SF and disaster movies brought it back.

Wasn't even Hitch's fault really. He had been pressurized by the "suits" (and, in particular, Universal boss Lew Wasserman), to not use Herrmann on the film but get a pop composer instead who could provide "a commercially exploitable theme song".

In the end, neither Wasserman nor Hitchcock got their wish: John Addison didn't provide a "pop score" (though his jazz-tinged theme is lighter in touch than Herrmann's "bells and whistles" would have been) - nor did they use the song that Addison wrote.  ::)

Same thing happened again on FRENZY. After listening to parts of Henry Mancini's score, Hitch said: "If I want Herrmann, I'd get Herrmann" - a comment which much puzzled Mancini, who insists that his score sounded "nothing like Herrmann". Mancini was excused from the film, and Ron Goodwin wrote a score that wasn't remotely "pop" either. In between, Hitch had written new memos for the composer which almost entirely contradicted the ones he had given Mancini to work from. Now, talk about directors exercising control over music ...

Speaking of John Addison, there is a highly entertaining sampler now in Chandos' British Film Music series:

(http://www.cinemusic.de/pix/cover/2962.jpg)

One of the better efforts in the series, both interpretively and in the selections. Addison had a deft touch for comedy, but he could also swash'n-buckle if needed (e.g. on James Goldstone's aptly titled, but ill-fated, Swashbucker of 1976).

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on August 27, 2008, 06:10:17 AM
Of these only the score for Jaws would be on my list worthy to stand alongside the Nine Symphonies of Beethoven and the four by Brahms, eight and three-quarters by Bruckner etcetcetc  ;D
But then, film scoring is a different kettle of fish. ;D

Actually (I've said this before), film scoring is more the equivalent of opera writing, or more precisely, of operetta/musical theater scoring.  In either case, you have the challenge of fitting musical craft into a dramatic framework.  The difference is that composers and conductors for opera have more control over pacing and other musical details in the final product.  So perhaps we should be comparing Williams et al, not with Beethoven and other primarily instrumental composers, but with Verdi and others who specialized in opera.

When Korngold came to Hollywood, he had already composed a very fine opera, Die Tote Stadt, so he was familiar with the challenges of composing for drama.  Prokofieff and Shostakovich had also composed stage works before taking up film.  (Those who think of Shostakovich as consistently "dark" should listen to his hilarious musical comedy Cheryomushki. ;D)  But, interestingly, Schoenberg and Stravinsky had completed many stage works before their abortive experiences with Hollywood... ???
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: anasazi on August 28, 2008, 07:47:16 PM
Isn't "King's Row" by Korngold, too? The score that John Williams lifted most of the Star Wars theme from.

Yeah, but only if you define the Star Wars theme as only the first five notes (the first three being the triplet pick-up beat).  Certainly, Williams theme pays homage to Korngolds great scores, but there are certainly many counterfeits today in Hollywood that need somebody else to help them, or maybe just some software. Williams is the last of a dying breed (at least in tinseltown) who you could give only a pencil and a page of manuscript paper, send into a room with no piano, no phone, no tv, etc.   Just a desk and a chair.  And an hour later he would appear with a manuscript page filed with musical notes. 

Yes, I love a great number of film scores. I would not even know how to begin to limit them to five or ten, anymore than I could limit my favorite piano concertos to five or ten.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 29, 2008, 01:07:24 AM
Yeah, but only if you define the Star Wars theme as only the first five notes (the first three being the triplet pick-up beat).  Certainly, Williams theme pays homage to Korngolds great scores,

Which he readily acknowledged when he asked about it.

Quote
but there are certainly many counterfeits today in Hollywood that need somebody else to help them, or maybe just some software.

Indeed. Hans Zimmer belongs to this breed, as does Danny Elfman. They play their themes on the keyboard or use a sampler to sketch a raw version of the kind of music they want, and then assistants and orchestrators do the "real" work. Zimmer is more open about the process than Elfman is. It's not a new phenomenon either. As I said earlier, the "musical directors" of Hollywood studies weren't always full pros either, they included former Kaffeehaus violinists and silent film conductors, but weren't composers. With the tide of European emigré composers flooding in, the situation improved considerably after about 1935. Still, Miklós Rózsa wasn't completely wrong when he described the bulk of film music coming out of Hollywood in the 40s: "The general idiom was conservative and meretricious in the extreme -diluted Rachmaninov and Broadway."

Quote
Yes, I love a great number of film scores. I would not even know how to begin to limit them to five or ten

Since I'm not intimately involved with the film music scene any more (bought a lot more Shostakovich film music those past eight years than that of any "modern" film composer), I think I could list ten favorites that I keep returning to on a regular basis, and by limiting it to American film music - a more exhaustive list of simply great scores I posted earlier:


(http://i15.servimg.com/u/f15/10/06/22/76/folder36.jpg)
1. Vertigo (1958, Bernard Herrmann) - to me, the "ultimate" film score in that it is everything a film score should be, and can be. I much prefer the McNeely recording to the soundtrack.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/4f/69/15fd810ae7a0165868fd9110.L.jpg)
2. Fahrenheit 451 (1966, Bernard Herrmann) - my favorite among Herrmann's "sensitive/poetic" scores, a representative suite of which is on this CD - Salonen recorded the same selection, but the Seattle performance has more warmth. There are complete albums of the soundtrack (for one of which I contributed the liner notes), but all the great cues are here.

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/cb/46/a23092c008a031db485d1010._AA240_.L.jpg)
3. The Best Years of Our Lives (1946, Hugo Friedhofer) - the score that kicked off Friedhofer's career (he worked as an orchestrator under Korngold) as an independent composer. Because of his refusal to write the music in the above-mentioned "Broadway-cum-Rachmaninov" style and opting for Coplandia instead (effectively out-Copland-ing Copland), nobody in the studio talked to him for a while, until he had won the Oscar. The number one Americana score!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WF6YXN3VL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
4. Ivanhoe (1951, Miklós Rózsa) - Rózsa did some research into old English music for this one, but his own style, naturally, comes through in every bar of the score. The Broughton re-recording for Intrada is the best version, superbly played and engineered. One of the great action-adventure scores in Hollywood history.

(http://filmmusik.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/under_fire.jpg)
5. Under Fire (1983, Jerry Goldsmith) - Hands down my favorite Goldsmith score, with a solo guitar part written for Pat Metheny. Unfortunately, the recording on the official album was not the same as the film version. "Bajos Fuego" e.g. is much more exciting in the original version.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CZBHMVYHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
6. Legend (1985, Jerry Goldsmith) - His greatest post-1982 score, which was replaced in the American release version with a synthetic score by Tangerine Dream(!) (yeah right, directors are the wise, ultimate arbiters on film music  ::)) but intact in the European version. Memorable cue after memorable cue.

(http://www.thesoundtracktoyourlife.co.uk/files/t_4332_01.jpg)
7. Willow (1988, James Horner) - Although, with its dizzying stylistic variety that covers everything from Beethoven to Penderecki, often simultaneously!) it plays right into the hands of those who accuse film music of "stylistic buccaneering" (a term coined by Goldsmith) - and I don't just mean certified poo-poo heads like "James", it's a roller-coaster ride tour de force, because of those same elements. It's the virtuosity and ingenuity with which they are combined that, IMHO, makes this the greatest James Horner score - and a sad reminder how exciting his career was before he got bogged down in cannibalising his own music again and again and again. THAT's virtuoso poly-stilistic writing, forget Schnittke!  ;D

(http://www.shapehead.com/_scoreland/cds/careful.jpg)
8. Careful, He Might Hear You (1984, Ray Cook) - An absolutely stunning score by Australian composer Ray Cook, who scored only three films and died in 1989 at age 53). For two solo violins and orchestra, sensitively chamber-music-like and sweepingly romantic by turns.

(http://www.unraticode.com/unraticode/Young_sherlock_holmesIntrada.jpg)
9. Young Sherlock Holmes (1985, Bruce Broughton) - It may not be the most original of Broughton's many fine scores (it includes an unforgivable ersatz-Orff choral piece (not that the real Orff is much good)), but it has so many great moments it may be my ultimate favorite, my desert island film score. I never tire of listening to it.

(http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/89892.jpg)
10. Planet of the Apes (1968, Jerry Goldsmith) - Between 1966 and the mid 70s, one memorable Goldsmith score followed another, and this may be greatest of all of them. From the days when Hollywood studios weren't opposed to taking risks musically.

No big surprises, safe choices mostly - but these are the ones I listen to most often.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 31, 2008, 04:35:41 AM
Sidenote: When Truffaut (certainly as sensitive an artist as Kubrick or Scorsese  ;)) asked Herrmann to score Fahrenheit 451, Herrmann said "But you're great friends with Boulez and Stockhausen. Why don't you ask them?" Replies Truffaut: "Because they'll give me music of the 20th century. You'll give me music of the 21st".

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on August 31, 2008, 07:21:34 AM
Sidenote: When Truffaut (certainly as sensitive an artist as Kubrick or Scorsese  ;)) asked Herrmann to score Fahrenheit 451, Herrmann said "But you're great friends with Boulez and Stockhausen. Why don't you ask them?" Replies Truffaut: "Because they'll give me music of the 20th century. You'll give me music of the 21st".

Thomas

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on August 31, 2008, 07:38:23 AM
But it sounds like music from the early 20th Century.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 31, 2008, 08:15:56 AM
Indicates that by the 21st, the music of the so-called avantgardists would be passé.  $:)

Which it kind of is. I don't seem too many people rushing to keep up with the Jameses.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on August 31, 2008, 09:57:12 AM
But it sounds like music from the early 20th Century.

Right. Still, it was a very gracious compliment on Truffaut's part. Musicological rubbish, but Hermann seems to have found it believable  8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 31, 2008, 09:58:35 AM
lol!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 31, 2008, 10:00:13 AM
lol!

Another great comment. You should be entering primary school any day now.  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 31, 2008, 10:01:42 AM
Still waiting for you to show any of your education, sound67...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 31, 2008, 10:05:05 AM
Still waiting for you to show any of your education, sound67...

Pretty lame, even for you.  ::)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 31, 2008, 10:07:54 AM
Pretty lame, even for you.  ::)

but true, that is the point.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 31, 2008, 10:12:11 AM
Not true, and not even remotely the point.  :P

The point here is people talking about film music, a subject to which you have been contributing .. let's see .. zilch.

Thomas

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 31, 2008, 10:15:36 AM
sound67, listing discs, uttering quotes of certain directors and criticising other directors are things that have nothing to do with showing your education. Any muppet can do those things. The fact that you repeatedly fail and patently avoid discussing the integration of music into film shows you up very clearly. So much for your vaunted education  ::)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on August 31, 2008, 10:22:35 AM
sound67, listing discs, uttering quotes of certain directors and criticising other directors are things that have nothing to do with showing your education. Any muppet can do those things. The fact that you repeatedly fail and patently avoid discussing the integration of music into film shows you up very clearly. So much for your vaunted education  ::)

I pointed out, and AFAIR specifically to you, a NUMBER of volumes that deal with both film music history AND technique(s), illustrating the how and why in detail (especially the Karlin book, which has become a must-read for composers aspiring to work in movies and TV). I also told you that I'm not here to start from Adam & Eve. Maybe you are.

I find it more challenging if you leave people with a few pointers that might make them curious to find out more, reading those (and/or other) books. If you want to move from general to specific issues, that's where you're gonna start.

On film music boards I've been through discussing specific films and composer/director relationship time after time, it makes no sense on a board where people have to be reminded that there is such as orginal music in films. What's the point in discussing isolated film and score samples with people who know neither of them? That's not gonna get anybody anywhere.

As the ridiculous North vs Goldsmith vs Strauss poll indicated, next to no people on this board ever heard of one of the finest film composers of the past century, a man highly respected by his peers and who has a devoted following among lovers of film music. Now, a few people more have heard of him. Mission accomplished.

Of course, you are not really curious. You're just being vindictive. Again, a tactic I never resort to.  0:)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ezodisy on August 31, 2008, 10:23:53 AM
I find it more challenging if you leave people with a few pointers that might make them curious to find out more, reading those (and/or other) books.

Thomas

Agreed. Let's leave it at that then.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on August 31, 2008, 05:18:32 PM
Sound67, there's no good argument against snobbery.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on August 31, 2008, 05:44:49 PM
Right. Still, it was a very gracious compliment on Truffaut's part. Musicological rubbish, but Hermann seems to have found it believable  8)
Or perhaps he found the compliment unworthy of comment yet believed in Truffaut's contract offer. ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on September 01, 2008, 05:10:05 AM
Anyone heard the music from the new Narnia film? I enjoyed the music from the first one  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on September 01, 2008, 05:11:54 AM
Sound67, there's no good argument against snobbery.

No, not even against film-music snobbery.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on September 01, 2008, 05:12:30 AM
Or perhaps he found the compliment unworthy of comment yet believed in Truffaut's contract offer. ;D

Plausible  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on September 01, 2008, 05:14:23 AM
No, not really. I think it's fairly obvious what Truffaut wanted to express. And quite a few I think would agree.

Thomnas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 04, 2008, 04:32:46 PM
Snagged this tv soundtrack last night, on vinyl:

(http://kansaspublicradio.org/images/retroGallery/eastside.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on September 05, 2008, 02:55:27 AM
Good morning, Bill!  :D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 05, 2008, 03:45:59 AM
Good morning, Bill!  :D

'Morning Karl.  Out the door for a cup of joe and on to work.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on September 05, 2008, 05:02:20 AM
Snagged this tv soundtrack last night, on vinyl:

(http://kansaspublicradio.org/images/retroGallery/eastside.jpg)

A good "jazz man", liked his score for Baby Doll.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 05, 2008, 02:02:04 PM
A good "jazz man", liked his score for Baby Doll.

Thomas

That one on vinyl can bring 5 Hamiltons in nice shape, Thomas.  I'll keep an eye out for it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on September 06, 2008, 12:31:58 AM
So rare LPs are still fetching top prices. A late friend of mine had that album, he also once bought what was then considered the "rarest" and most expensive soundtrack LP, Alfred the Great by Raymond Leppard. It was listed in catalogues at UKP 1,000 (in the mid eighties!).

I think the most sought-after LP I still got is Legends of the Living Sea, composed for an underwater attraction designed by Jean-Jacques Cousteau. But I will never sell it, it is a beautiful score by Walter Scharf (whose music also supported Cousteau's first TV series).

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on September 06, 2008, 12:40:49 PM
No, not really. I think it's fairly obvious what Truffaut wanted to express. And quite a few I think would agree.

Thomnas

    In part it had to do with the demands of the story. In the film's future world an elegiac score which recalled the lost world of culture would be more effective than one reminding the audience of the cultural destruction that led to it. The end of the film makes this evident, I think, if nothing else does.
   
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on September 07, 2008, 05:28:24 PM
So rare LPs are still fetching top prices. A late friend of mine had that album, he also once bought what was then considered the "rarest" and most expensive soundtrack LP, Alfred the Great by Raymond Leppard. It was listed in catalogues at UKP 1,000 (in the mid eighties!).

Leppard the conductor? Interesting.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: MDL on September 13, 2008, 04:05:37 AM
I just remembered that I had neglected to include John Corigliano's Altered States in my original list! :-[ :D

A new recording of the Three Hallucinations from Altered States has been released by Naxos (coupled with Mr Tambourine Man which I haven't played yet; I only bought the CD yesterday). The Buffalo Phil is conduted by JoAnn Falletta (it's good to see more women getting involved in this conducting lark). Obviously it loses something without the electronic effects and shouting voices, but it's still an exciting listen. Where would we be without the wonderful Naxos label?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 14, 2008, 06:03:38 AM
This morning's listening:

(http://www.recordshopx.com/cover/normal/5/53/53503.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on September 14, 2008, 07:58:19 AM
This morning's listening:

(http://www.recordshopx.com/cover/normal/5/53/53503.jpg)

One of my favorite TV shows when I was a kid! I think there was something Freudian in the characters'  tiny and helpless situation that resonated with children.

(http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/Giants%20272%202-21-6.jpg)

I don't have any recollection of the music from the series, though. What are your thoughts on the soundtrack?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on September 14, 2008, 08:13:51 AM
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/5140KVT9ZSL._AA240_.jpg)

Frank Skinner - Son of Frankenstein
Frank Skinner, Hans J. Salter - The Invisible Man Returns
Frank Skinner, Hans J. Salter - The Wolf Man


Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 14, 2008, 12:50:47 PM
One of my favorite TV shows when I was a kid! I think there was something Freudian in the characters'  tiny and helpless situation that resonated with children.

(http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/Giants%20272%202-21-6.jpg)

I don't have any recollection of the music from the series, though. What are your thoughts on the soundtrack?

Bubblegum meets sci-fi.  Fairly repetitive, but fun.  See PM.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 14, 2008, 12:51:40 PM
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/5140KVT9ZSL._AA240_.jpg)

Frank Skinner - Son of Frankenstein
Frank Skinner, Hans J. Salter - The Invisible Man Returns
Frank Skinner, Hans J. Salter - The Wolf Man


Thomas

This one is on my next, or second to next order.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 14, 2008, 03:38:54 PM
Now, a bit from Elmer:

(http://i14.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/dc/ef/3f8d_1.JPG)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 15, 2008, 03:36:20 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DZ6M8K63L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

A little Herrmann to start my day.  Good morning.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 15, 2008, 06:17:32 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61QJ2N8C6BL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on September 16, 2008, 01:32:06 AM
(http://www.mondo-digital.com/masterworldcoversmall.jpg)
Les Baxter, Master of the World (on vinyl only, unfortunately)

A colorful score for the Vincent Price fantasy film inspired by Jules Verne, similar - but superior - to Victor Young's "Around the World in 80 Days". Les Baxter wrote more than a 100 film scores, although he is best remembered as a band leader (there's a groovy web site on him, http://www.lesbaxter.com/). He came to my attention again last week when I watched Roger Corman's "X - The Man with the X-Ray Eyes" on MGM. Nifty and imaginative score, rooted in pop music.

Baxter's greatest contributions were for the Roger Corman series of E.A.Poe "adaptations" starring Vincent Price, his work for "House of Usher" and "The Pit and the Pendulum" was excellent. Sadly, none of those never made it to LP/CD.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 16, 2008, 03:36:44 AM
This morning:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a0/2e/aa6d92c008a039333dcd5010._AA240_.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 16, 2008, 05:51:42 PM


Baxter's greatest contributions were for the Roger Corman series of E.A.Poe "adaptations" starring Vincent Price, his work for "House of Usher" and "The Pit and the Pendulum" was excellent. Sadly, none of those never made it to LP/CD.

Thomas


I am surprised that no one has recorded at least the main titles in a compilation like format for the Price films, including these.  Maybe these folks will down the road:

http://www.mmmrecordings.com/
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on September 16, 2008, 09:59:41 PM
I raised the issue once on a newsgroup, and got a private message afterwards from one of Baxter's grandsons. He told me that the original soundtrack tapes of many of Baxter's scores were available, incl those for the Poe adaptations. I guess he thought I had connections to a record company that would buy them. Some of the music is very fine (incl a delightful comedy score for "The Raven", for winds only), but if the music was union-recorded there's no chance for a release.



MMM seem primarily concerned with a special type of 1950s B-picture music, mainly Universal's. But thanks for the link, there's some new stuff since I last visited the site. Bought their first two Monstrous Music CDs years ago - autographed by Herman Stein and Irving Gertz.  ;D

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 17, 2008, 06:39:12 PM
How does the "union" piece lock it up Thomas?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on September 17, 2008, 10:49:34 PM
You'd have to pay the session musicians (or their heirs) again.

According to the Les Baxter website, selections from the Poe scores were used for the "Poe Suite" which is featured on the B-side of a Citadel LP with Baxter's "Cry of the Banshee" score. I got that CD, but when I listened to the B-side many years ago the music seemed different from that for the Price features.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 20, 2008, 04:35:09 AM
Waking up to this.  I honestly could not reccomend this maneuver to many.  ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511YB7F2K7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Ugh! on September 22, 2008, 10:40:20 AM
I've always been fond of Billy Goldberg's score for Spielberg's debut tv-film Duel...

(http://members.tripod.com/~DavidMann/duel5.jpg)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on September 23, 2008, 11:33:20 AM
On Friday I watched the film "Night of the Hunter" having not seen it for c 30 years. I realised what a wonderful scary/poetic score Walter Schumann wrote for it. Have ordered CD below:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on September 23, 2008, 11:48:15 AM
I've always been fond of Billy Goldberg's score for Spielberg's debut tv-film Duel...

Perhaps; but a rear-end jutting out front and center from a poster is poor artistic judgment  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on September 23, 2008, 08:12:45 PM
Perhaps; but a rear-end jutting out front and center from a poster is poor artistic judgment  ;D
Well, whoever claimed movie posters were "artistic"? :o On the other hand, not all rear ends show "poor artistic judgment." ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Ugh! on September 23, 2008, 11:39:51 PM
Perhaps; but a rear-end jutting out front and center from a poster is poor artistic judgment  ;D

Not at all, it just establishes the central psychological theme of the film: homophobia, fear of some stranger coming up from behind ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on September 24, 2008, 02:07:17 AM
Cue: Spinal Tap, "Big Bottom"
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on September 24, 2008, 05:22:18 PM
Cue: Spinal Tap, "Big Bottom"
Cue for flashback: Ma Rainey's "Black Bottom." :o ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on September 28, 2008, 07:33:58 AM
Yesterday I watched a broadcast of "Casablanca" on television and, although I've seen it on many occasions, I was struck this time by one particular scene. As a group of German soldiers sing (what I believe to be) "Die Wacht Am Rhein" in Rick's bar, Victor Laszlo gets up and leads the band and the rest of the patrons in a stirring rendition of "La Marseillaise". The two pieces go on simultaneously for a while until "La Marseillaise" finally prevails.  It's an excellent scene in all respects, especially in a musical sense. I've just ordered the Max Steiner soundtrack to the film.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 28, 2008, 07:58:54 AM
Yesterday I watched a broadcast of "Casablanca" on television and, although I've seen it on many occasions, I was struck this time by one particular scene. As a group of German soldiers sing (what I believe to be) "Die Wacht Am Rhein" in Rick's bar, Victor Laszlo gets up and leads the band and the rest of the patrons in a stirring rendition of "La Marseillaise". The two pieces go on simultaneously for a while until "La Marseillaise" finally prevails.  It's an excellent scene in all respects, especially in a musical sense. I've just ordered the Max Steiner soundtrack to the film.

Let me know how that is, Tony.  I have been tempted in the past, but the ones I have seen are riddled with dialogue (maybe I just have not looked hard enough) and I prefer one that is strictly music, like the Treasure of Sierra Madre disc I have.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on September 28, 2008, 08:06:31 AM
Let me know how that is, Tony.  I have been tempted in the past, but the ones I have seen are riddled with dialogue (maybe I just have not looked hard enough) and I prefer one that is strictly music, like the Treasure of Sierra Madre disc I have.

Will do. This is the one I ordered.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wUAy-pB4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Somewhat of an impulse buy, but sometimes those are the ones that turn out best.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 02, 2008, 03:23:15 PM
Ordered these two OOP (at least I believe this to be the case) cds:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5142XADXB2L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JhUEXCC7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 03, 2008, 03:24:01 AM
This morning:

(http://www.wacksworld.co.uk/images/soundtracks/TheLordOfTheRings1.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on October 03, 2008, 10:28:19 AM
Sometime this weekend Mamochka and I will likely watch Laura together.

I'll make a note of the score by David Raksin, this time around  8)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TAP810ZPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 04, 2008, 05:38:33 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/412TQ57F9KL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

The Klingon Battle track is just the "berries" of this soundtrack IMO.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 05, 2008, 08:38:25 AM
Now listening to:

(http://a1.phobos.apple.com/r10/Music/y2005/m05/d21/h15/s06.yxfvwtsn.170x170-75.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on October 06, 2008, 11:53:39 AM
Let me know how that is, Tony.  I have been tempted in the past, but the ones I have seen are riddled with dialogue (maybe I just have not looked hard enough) and I prefer one that is strictly music, like the Treasure of Sierra Madre disc I have.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wUAy-pB4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Well, I can't say I'm totally disappointed, but this CD came today and it isn't what I expected. If you want to avoid dialog, definitely avoid this CD. I don't think there were many lines spoken in the film that aren't on it. The audio quality leaves much to be desired, too. It sounds as if someone sat in the theater with a tape recorder on their lap to produce it. Despite all that, it is a fun recording to have. It's just too bad it doesn't do justice to the score.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 06, 2008, 03:31:40 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wUAy-pB4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Well, I can't say I'm totally disappointed, but this CD came today and it isn't what I expected. If you want to avoid dialog, definitely avoid this CD. I don't think there were many lines spoken in the film that aren't on it. The audio quality leaves much to be desired, too. It sounds as if someone sat in the theater with a tape recorder on their lap to produce it. Despite all that, it is a fun recording to have. It's just too bad it doesn't do justice to the score.

Darn.  Well, maybe there is one down the road.  I know they released a Maltese Falcon and of course The Treasure of Sierra madre (Two versions I believe, the original score and a remake.  I have the original on the Rhino label and enjoy it).  I wonder if Thomas has any insight here.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wilhelm Richard on October 06, 2008, 08:07:54 PM
Beecham's Tales of Hoffmann for Powell and Pressburger...Not only a fine arrangement and soundtrack for the film, but one of the finest recordings of (one version of) the opera.





Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 07, 2008, 07:24:51 PM
Now playing:  ;)

(http://i22.servimg.com/u/f22/10/06/22/76/5286010.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on October 09, 2008, 06:13:44 AM
One of the greatest scores is on my player right now: Max Steiner's King Kong.

My favorite CD of it is now OOP, I believe, and only available used.

http://www.amazon.com/King-Kong-Max-Steiner/dp/B000JNUXEG/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1223561254&sr=1-25

The conductor is Fred Steiner (no relation) with the National Philharmonic Orchestra.
There is less  music (48 minutes) than on the Marco Polo Moscow Symphony CD, but the clarity of the counterpoint comes through much better, and the climaxes are harder hitting and therefore much more appropriate.

Steiner in his later years can be rightly accused of too much Mickey-Mousing, and there is of course some of that in King Kong.

Still, worth looking for, if you do not know this version.
Title: Re: Fred Steiner
Post by: Cato on October 09, 2008, 06:18:59 AM
I almost forgot to add this from Wikipedia's entry on conductor/composer Fred Steiner:

Quote
Another of Steiner's famous works, "Park Avenue Beat," was used from 1957 to 1966 as the theme song to Perry Mason and was re-recorded by Dick DeBenedictis for the subsequent made-for-TV movies in 1985. Steiner also composed the main theme to The Bullwinkle Show

My emphasis!

There!  Proof of Genius!  Probably a genius greater than...say...Debussy's while composing P/M!

And as Bugs Bunny would say, "Yeah, them's fightin' woids!"   $:)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2008, 04:17:42 PM
One of the greatest scores is on my player right now: Max Steiner's King Kong.

My favorite CD of it is now OOP, I believe, and only available used.

http://www.amazon.com/King-Kong-Max-Steiner/dp/B000JNUXEG/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1223561254&sr=1-25

The conductor is Fred Steiner (no relation) with the National Philharmonic Orchestra.
There is less  music (48 minutes) than on the Marco Polo Moscow Symphony CD, but the clarity of the counterpoint comes through much better, and the climaxes are harder hitting and therefore much more appropriate.

Steiner in his later years can be rightly accused of too much Mickey-Mousing, and there is of course some of that in King Kong.

Still, worth looking for, if you do not know this version.

Looks as though I need to add another recording of this GREAT score to my shelf, as I have the Polo one.  Thanks for the review, Cato.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on October 10, 2008, 08:08:20 AM
Looks as though I need to add another recording of this GREAT score to my shelf, as I have the Polo one.  Thanks for the review, Cato.

The notes in the little booklet are also very interesting, written by Fred Steiner, and contain examples of the score, including the Main Title page...but you will probably need a magnifying glass, if you are like me!   8)

The booklet quotes Oscar Levant saying the the movie should have been advertised as a new concert work by Max Steiner with accompanying pictures!   ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on October 11, 2008, 12:29:15 AM
Darn.  Well, maybe there is one down the road.  I know they released a Maltese Falcon and of course The Treasure of Sierra madre (Two versions I believe, the original score and a remake.  I have the original on the Rhino label and enjoy it).  I wonder if Thomas has any insight here.

I have the old Charles Gerhardt CD below which features an effective eight minute sequence from 'Casablanca' (without dialogue):

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on October 11, 2008, 12:37:30 AM
Strongly recommend this new Naxos release, especially for L'Idee, a quite haunting score for an animated film:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 12, 2008, 12:48:42 PM
Grabbed these four on vinyl today:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QCV2WTN2L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)   (http://bp1.blogger.com/_FbG9rWPXqnc/SFEY_JFetXI/AAAAAAAAChA/978a5DHkle4/s320/1965+Mirage+-+Quincy+Jones.jpg)   (http://archive.getchazzed.com/pinkpanther.jpg)   (http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/s/steven_mort_hawaiifiv_101b.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 12, 2008, 03:51:39 PM
I have the old Charles Gerhardt CD below which features an effective eight minute sequence from 'Casablanca' (without dialogue):



May be worth a try.  I need to watch the film again and really listen to the music (score component).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on October 12, 2008, 03:53:34 PM
Strongly recommend this new Naxos release, especially for L'Idee, a quite haunting score for an animated film:


Thanks, I collect that series, that's one of the two or three I don't have. I'll keep it in my Amazon shopping cart.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Wanderer on October 12, 2008, 11:04:44 PM
(http://archive.getchazzed.com/pinkpanther.jpg)

Good one!  8)

Incidentally, this is what I'm listening to at the moment...

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0089408018329.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2008, 08:09:04 AM
Now playing:  ;)

(http://i22.servimg.com/u/f22/10/06/22/76/5286010.jpg)

This is a great score. I also have the old Unicorn-Kanchana recording with Laurie Johnson conducting.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: tjguitar on October 15, 2008, 01:21:06 PM
This is a great score. I also have the old Unicorn-Kanchana recording with Laurie Johnson conducting.





vandermolen, I can't recommend this new-ish complete recording enough conducted by Joel McNeely.:

(http://www.varesesarabande.com/assets/product_images/lg/106711071067.jpg)

http://www.varesesarabande.com/details.asp?pid=vcl-1107-1067


He's done a few fantastic recordings for the Varese Sarabande label (I think his Vertigo recording is maybe the best we have.)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: tjguitar on October 15, 2008, 01:23:24 PM
Also, since we're mentioning Herrmann, I am very pleased with The Kentuckian. I never would have thought that Herrmann did any Americana, but it's quite pleasant to listen to.


(http://screenarchives.com/gifs/large/10351.gif)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: anasazi on October 15, 2008, 07:49:48 PM
Also, since we're mentioning Herrmann, I am very pleased with The Kentuckian. I never would have thought that Herrmann did any Americana, but it's quite pleasant to listen to.


(http://screenarchives.com/gifs/large/10351.gif)

Herrmann (along with his friend Jerome Moross) were both early fans of Charles Ives (ig that tells you anything).  Just because Herrmann didn't get to score many Americana pictures doesn't follow that he couldn't do it, does it?  It just means that Hollywood producers and directors didn't ask him for that. And plus, he was associated so many years with Hitchcock.  If you get the chance, check out a little piece Benny wrote called "Williamsburg - The Story of A Patriot". It is from a short documentary film and has been recorded, but now (I think) it may be out of print.  Interestingly, BH makes use of the little tune that Billings wrote, called "Chester".  This was the marching music of the first continental army by the way.  William Schuman also used this theme in his "Three Places In New England".
This tune is one the COULD have been (to some of us: should have been) chosen as the USA's national anthem.   
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: tjguitar on October 15, 2008, 08:18:44 PM
Quote
If you get the chance, check out a little piece Benny wrote called "Williamsburg - The Story of A Patriot". It is from a short documentary film and has been recorded, but now (I think) it may be out of print.  Interestingly, BH makes use of the little tune that Billings wrote, called "Chester".  This was the marching music of the first continental army by the way.  William Schuman also used this theme in his "Three Places In New England".
This tune is one the COULD have been (to some of us: should have been) chosen as the USA's national anthem.   

Williamsburg is on the same CD as the image I posted...

I also wasn't suggesting that Herrmann COULDN'T write Americana, just that it's not what I associate him with (Hithcock, the Harryhousen fantasy stuff)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 15, 2008, 08:26:17 PM
He also hit the noir genre, but truly only once (?):

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/da/5c/e577431378a01296f4996110._AA240_.L.jpg)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: anasazi on October 15, 2008, 08:33:52 PM
Williamsburg is on the same CD as the image I posted...

I also wasn't suggesting that Herrmann COULDN'T write Americana, just that it's not what I associate him with (Hithcock, the Harryhousen fantasy stuff)

Yes, I know you weren't suggesting he couln't write Americana.  Sorry, I don't have the new Kentuckian CD, only the old one, and I forgot that Williamsburg was also included on the new CD. 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 15, 2008, 08:40:56 PM
To end the evening here:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61VQAP47XHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Love the music, but do not care for the movie.  For those that disagree with this: Frankly, I don't give a damn.  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: M forever on October 17, 2008, 07:36:52 PM
William Schuman also used this theme in his "Three Places In New England".

Isn't that by Ives?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on October 18, 2008, 04:04:12 AM
Isn't that by Ives?

Yes. I believe the Schuman piece is titled "New England Triptych".
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on October 18, 2008, 04:35:00 AM
Staying with the subjects of New England compositions (Piston also wrote "Three New England Sketches") and film music, does anyone else hear a huge similarity between the main themes of Quincy Porter's "New England Episodes" and Ernest Gold's "Theme to Exodus"?

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6f/23/f5f7c6da8da07fd4f7b81110._AA240_.L.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZWJ3N98ML._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on October 18, 2008, 04:41:17 AM
Yes. I believe the Schuman piece is titled "New England Triptych".

And based on tunes by Boston composer Wm Billings.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Ugh! on October 18, 2008, 08:52:43 AM
(http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/images/cd/large/Fearless_vampire_killers_HRKCD8135.jpg)

I'll do it again: Krysztof Komeda makes my day!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 19, 2008, 02:22:56 PM
Picked up two more pieces of vinyl today:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/77SunsetStripAlbumcover.jpg)  (http://bp3.blogger.com/_JfmYtoWg4vU/R3fJFk_oL7I/AAAAAAAAAWQ/XwqEWv9-9po/s400/GUNN+%231.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 19, 2008, 04:16:43 PM
Now listening to:

(http://i2.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/0a/e9/af0c_2.JPG)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: anasazi on October 19, 2008, 09:22:53 PM
Yes. I believe the Schuman piece is titled "New England Triptych".

Yes, right, I am embarassed but I named Ives Three Places rather than New England Tryptich. Obviously someone (you) seemed to know what I meant.  Sorry.  This is liklely the last thing I will ever forget.  ;-)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 15, 2008, 02:42:57 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M7PSGF90L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
(1997)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 15, 2008, 05:27:27 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417E6H8598L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
(1996)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 15, 2008, 05:49:36 PM
Also having fun crossing over into these two:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41yA8uJp9AL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515DW8JSTML._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on November 16, 2008, 12:17:46 AM
Bogey, I have tried to PM you, but your in-box is full.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Ugh! on November 16, 2008, 12:25:52 AM
Also having fun crossing over into these two:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41yA8uJp9AL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515DW8JSTML._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Lalo, my man. Are you familiar with the unused parts he wrote for the Exorcist? Among his most brilliant work! They used to have it over at Film Score Monthly, but I couldn't find it now...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on November 16, 2008, 06:10:09 PM
Picked up two more pieces of vinyl today:

Just ordered this on vinyl:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/ed/5c/37c5e03ae7a0b6d352f4c110._AA240_.L.jpg)

PBS was airing "The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming" tonight. I forgot what an incredibly hilarious film that was! I caught it while working out at the gym, so I wasn't able to fully appreciate the sonics of the broadcast. It seemed like a "must have" though, so I ordered it when I got home. I'll post again after it arrives.
Title: Re: Major Dundee
Post by: Cato on November 18, 2008, 11:16:56 AM
Does anybody know much about the musical score in DVD version of a "restored" Major Dundee, the Sam Peckinpah movie with Charlton Heston in the title role?

I have read that the movie's original score by Daniele Amfitheatrof was replaced for a DVD version done by a certain Christopher Caliendo, whose qualification was that he had written a score for a DVD issue of a silent movie from 1924 by John Ford called The Iron Horse.

The Amazon reviewers are contradictory, claiming that Peckinpah hated the original music, which is why the DVD restorers opted for a new score, and that he loved it, which is why the restorers should not have messed with it.   :-\
Title: Re: Major Dundee
Post by: karlhenning on November 18, 2008, 11:28:07 AM
Does anybody know much about the musical score in DVD version of a "restored" Major Dundee, the Sam Peckinpah movie with Charlton Heston in the title role?

Has the score been reissued for Rogue Cheddar?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 19, 2008, 04:55:13 AM
Bogey, I have tried to PM you, but your in-box is full.

Mike

Should be clear now Mike.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 19, 2008, 05:07:44 AM
Lalo, my man. Are you familiar with the unused parts he wrote for the Exorcist? Among his most brilliant work! They used to have it over at Film Score Monthly, but I couldn't find it now...

No.  I used to subscribe to FSM.  I believe that they sold out of the disc.  I have an old copy from 2002 and it says "Only 30 left.  Order soon" or something like that.  Goes for over $30 on Ebay.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on November 19, 2008, 05:14:13 AM
Bogey alert (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,33.msg248573.html#msg248573)

 8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 19, 2008, 05:20:18 AM
Just ordered this on vinyl:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/ed/5c/37c5e03ae7a0b6d352f4c110._AA240_.L.jpg)

PBS was airing "The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming" tonight. I forgot what an incredibly hilarious film that was!

Emergency! Emergency! Everybody to get from street!

 ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on November 19, 2008, 07:34:50 AM
Emergency! Emergency! Everybody to get from street!

 ;D :D ;D

Actually, it was "Emerrrrginsee, Emerrrrginsee, effrrrybohdee to git frrrom strrrit!"   ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on November 19, 2008, 09:06:20 AM
Some background music for reading (and to block out the barking dogs next door  ::)):

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z245/tapiola/bravelittletoaster.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 19, 2008, 08:45:45 PM
A vinyl purchase from this evening:

(http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/09/57/1973_1.JPG)

Absolutely love this cover.....
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 22, 2008, 06:42:22 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41tegSj7O6L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 29, 2008, 06:37:01 AM
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/0f/80/7775793509a049fcd29a4110._AA240_.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 07, 2008, 08:22:53 PM
Unmistakeably Mancini:

(http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/images/BB/Terror.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 14, 2008, 08:54:38 PM
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/ivan1087/SAfhXAxqFFI/AAAAAAAACFI/6p-bjhTh3lg/the%20odd%20couple%201968%20soundtrack.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on February 24, 2009, 10:22:17 AM
What are you favourite film scores?

Some of mine are:

Conan the Barbarian: (Poledouris), a great score, like Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky" (really!)

The Heiress: Copland

Ivan the Terribe: Prokofiev

War and Peace (Russian): Ovchinnikov (wish it was on CD)

Shawshank Redemption/Green Mile: Thomas Newman

2001 A Space Odyssey: Ligeti etc

Dead of Night: Auric

The Cruel Sea: Rawsthorne

There are many more, but that will do for now.


I like David Shire's "Zodiac." It is conceived primarily in the melodic minor mode, which,for some reason, is particularly appealing to me. I also like various sections (not always thecentral themes)of works by Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, and Danny Elfman.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Coopmv on February 24, 2009, 06:22:07 PM
Here's an absolutely beautiful movie ...  Beautiful woman and beautiful music ...   ;D

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on February 28, 2009, 12:35:57 PM
Just picked up some Bernard Herrmann:

(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:rde1xb3ADDeo5M:http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/images/cd/large/Music_great_movie_Thrillers_PFS4173.jpg)  (http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~lestudio/photo_film/dec_4213.jpg)  (http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:eAGRYayPWlMevM:http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/s268609.jpg)

The above phase 4 stereo lp's except with the London label in the top right corner.  $20 for the lot and the vinyl approaches pristine.


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on February 28, 2009, 03:06:28 PM
Just picked up some Bernard Herrmann:

(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:rde1xb3ADDeo5M:http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/images/cd/large/Music_great_movie_Thrillers_PFS4173.jpg)  (http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~lestudio/photo_film/dec_4213.jpg)  (http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:eAGRYayPWlMevM:http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/s268609.jpg)

The above phase 4 stereo lp's except with the London label in the top right corner.  $20 for the lot and the vinyl approaches pristine.


What a great discovery! I love Herrmann's music. 'The Ghost and Mrs Muir' is my (and BH's) favourite.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on February 28, 2009, 03:17:57 PM
What a great discovery! I love Herrmann's music. 'The Ghost and Mrs Muir' is my (and BH's) favourite.

Agreed.  He was easily one the best ever.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on March 07, 2009, 05:25:09 AM
Thomas,

What a great list! Many would be on my list too.

Re: Ghost and Mrs Muir, doesn't Herrmann's fine score for Jane Eyre also feature music from his opera Wuthering Heights?

On this topic, a little known but great score (or great theme music anyway) is Michel Legrand's for the Timothy Dalton, Anna Calder-Marshall version of Wuthering Heights. I remembered the theme for over 30 yrs until I bought the DVD and it is on a CD compilation of Michel Legrand's music (incidentally his recording of Durufle's Requiem is my favourite; a truly wonderful performance, unlike any other).

Rozsa's Double Indemnity, yes, a great score

Goldmith's Alien and Planet of the Apes are favourites too

Tora, Tora, Tora (Goldsmith?)

VW Scott Music+Lives of Joanna Godden (little known score...now on CD)

Alwyn's Odd Man Out is a wondeful score, truly symphonic. It reminds me of The Road to Calvary in Rosza'a Ben Hur and I think that it is one of Alwyn's greatest scores.

Bliss :Things to Come; great score.

Waxman: Bride of Frankenstein and Rebecca.

Malcolm Arnold's St Trinians is good fun.

Wasn't VW's 7th Symphony originally a film score for "Scott of the Antarctica?"  It may be mentioned elsewhere in this thread..  This is a great, memorable symphonic work.















Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on March 07, 2009, 09:59:59 AM
Wasn't VW's 7th Symphony originally a film score for "Scott of the Antarctica?"  It may be mentioned elsewhere in this thread..  This is a great, memorable symphonic work.

Yes, Vaughan Williams subtitled his 7th Symphony 'Sinfonia Antartica' - it is indeed based on the Scott film score.  Haitink's recording is one of the best.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on March 22, 2009, 04:47:51 AM

I like David Shire's "Zodiac." It is conceived primarily in the melodic minor mode, which,for some reason, is particularly appealing to me. I also like various sections (not always thecentral themes)of works by Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, and Danny Elfman.

I simply wanted to add a film score the movie in which was just released; namely, "Knowing." This is a fine sc-fi movie starring Nicolas Cage.  Marco Beltrami's score sounds quite interesting from what I gleaned during this first encounter with the film along with the soundtrack. I decided to order it from Amazon.  Hopefully subsequent hearings on my part will reveal moments of significant themes and harmonies.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 22, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
And I will add Danny Elfman's, Milk.  Sounds like the soundtracks that came out in the early 90's by many composers.  Just paced with the film well, IMO.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on March 22, 2009, 11:27:51 AM
Played Star Wars Episode One in the video store the other day and noticed during the ending credits how good the theme for young Anakin was — probably the best music of all the prequels. Anyone else notice this?

http://www.youtube.com/v/9SOk0ijHD2M

(It starts at about 7'40")
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on March 24, 2009, 07:10:49 AM
You're right. Anakin's Theme was one of the happier inventions in the three New-Hop-prequel scores.

One of the great scores of Hollywood that I never tire of listening to:

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/cb/46/a23092c008a031db485d1010._AA240_.L.jpg)

Ironic story about how this recording came about. Entr'acte Records started a poll on which classic Hollywood score was the one fans wanted a new recording of most of all. The overwhelming winner was Friedhofer's The Best Years of Our Lives. So, Entr'acte produced the new recording with the LPO, at great expense. And then nobody went to buy it. It almost ruined the company. Well, they're gone anyway now.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Renfield on March 24, 2009, 08:37:41 AM
Played Star Wars Episode One in the video store the other day and noticed during the ending credits how good the theme for young Anakin was — probably the best music of all the prequels. Anyone else notice this?

http://www.youtube.com/v/9SOk0ijHD2M

(It starts at about 7'40")

Indeed. And more so, it's a variation of the Imperial March, a.k.a. Vader's theme, intended to musically foreshadow Anakin's fall to the dark side.

(Yes, Star Wars nerd, guilty as charged.)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 24, 2009, 11:36:08 AM
Indeed. And more so, it's a variation of the Imperial March, a.k.a. Vader's theme, intended to musically foreshadow Anakin's fall to the dark side.

(Yes, Star Wars nerd, guilty as charged.)

You're in good company!  ;)

(http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave2/fight3.gif)

But, are you geeky enough to own this recording?  ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516SAST0BCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

It's by Joel McNeely rather than John Williams and it's actually alright but not especially memorable unfortunately.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Renfield on March 24, 2009, 12:55:04 PM
You're in good company!  ;)

(http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave2/fight3.gif)

But, are you geeky enough to own this recording?  ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516SAST0BCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

It's by Joel McNeely rather than John Williams and it's actually alright but not especially memorable unfortunately.

I'm geeky enough to have heard of it. ;D

(And I love that Vader-Luke emote. (http://www.clipartof.com/images/thumbnail/369.gif))
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on March 24, 2009, 02:11:43 PM
I remember the video game. Never read the book, though.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 24, 2009, 04:02:58 PM


But, are you geeky enough to own this recording?  ;D


Nope.  Only the original will do.....now that is true geekness. ;D  Have the Phantom Menace on the shelf....Williams, of course, and episodes 4-6.  Missing 2 and 3.  Have also flirted with picking up this:

(http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/soundtracks/426-1.jpg)

I figured that it would be nice to own the only thing redeemable dealing with this film. ;)

Wonder if you could do some photo shopping with the cat and this mug, Benji?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 24, 2009, 04:05:04 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511T-gKrh8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I will take a listen to the queue, Corey, as the End Credits are listed on this cd above.  Not the ultimate collection, but it should do in a pinch.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 24, 2009, 04:28:13 PM
Nope.  Only the original will do.....now that is true geekness. ;D  Have the Phantom Menace on the shelf....Williams, of course, and episodes 4-6.  Missing 2 and 3.  Have also flirted with picking up this:

(http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/soundtracks/426-1.jpg)

I figured that it would be nice to own the only thing redeemable dealing with this film. ;)

I have that, but I wouldn't recommend it. There is some good music on it that isn't on the single disc release, but it's pretty much just a rip of the DVD soundtrack, complete with cack-handed editing by George Lucas that obliterates the flow of the music. Steven Spielberg had respect enough to edit his films around the the music, in examples such as E.T. and Close Encounters, to great effect (can you imagine the bicycle chase in E.T. any other way?!). Lucas has no such respect.

If you care enough to go...*ahem*... underground, there are a number of bootlegs of the score kicking about that provide the missing music but retain the narrative flow and correct much of the editing. Presumably these have been assembled from leaked recording sessions. Not that's geeky, my friend!  ;)

Quote
Wonder if you could do some photo shopping with the cat and this mug, Benji?

Worry ye not; Mog will meet Star Wars at some point in the future!  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 24, 2009, 04:38:11 PM


If you care enough to go...*ahem*... underground, there are a number of bootlegs of the score kicking about that provide the missing music but retain the narrative flow and correct much of the editing. Presumably these have been assembled from leaked recording sessions. Not that's geeky, my friend!  ;)


Good info.  It must be geeky because my pulse rate started to race reading this portion.


Worry ye not; Mog will meet Star Wars at some point in the future!  ;D


I am assuming that Mog will side with the Empire. (http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/vader.gif)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 24, 2009, 04:42:01 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511T-gKrh8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I will take a listen to the queue, Corey, as the End Credits are listed on this cd above.  Not the ultimate collection, but it should do in a pinch.

This disc contains most of the memorable music from the film, edited by Williams to provide a flowing listening experience but not necessarily following the order of the film. As much as the film sucked, the

Renfield has already pointed out that Anakin's theme is an inversion of Vader's theme, but did you also notice that:

- In the track Anakin defeats Sebulba (during the Pod Race), the fanfare prelude to the action (starting 0:46) is actually Jabba's theme from the ROTJ score.
- The childrens' chorus (ick!) at the beginning of the end credits are singing the Emperor's theme. The same sinister theme that that is taken up by deep bass voices in the ROTJ, but saccharine sweet just like Senator Palpatine!  :o
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 24, 2009, 04:43:59 PM
I am assuming that Mog will side with the Empire. (http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/vader.gif)

Mog sides with the highest bidder!  >:D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 24, 2009, 05:13:55 PM
This disc contains most of the memorable music from the film, edited by Williams to provide a flowing listening experience but not necessarily following the order of the film. As much as the film sucked, the

Renfield has already pointed out that Anakin's theme is an inversion of Vader's theme, but did you also notice that:

- In the track Anakin defeats Sebulba (during the Pod Race), the fanfare prelude to the action (starting 0:46) is actually Jabba's theme from the ROTJ score.
- The childrens' chorus (ick!) at the beginning of the end credits are singing the Emperor's theme. The same sinister theme that that is taken up by deep bass voices in the ROTJ, but saccharine sweet just like Senator Palpatine!  :o

I am not worthy of your geekness.  :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on March 24, 2009, 05:23:19 PM
Steven Spielberg had respect enough to edit his films around the the music, in examples such as E.T. and Close Encounters, to great effect (can you imagine the bicycle chase in E.T. any other way?!). Lucas has no such respect.

I've noticed that. There's a big chunk of music written for the beginning of Empire (after the Imperial Probe Droid lands on Hoth) that isn't even used at all. Incidentally, it's some of my favorite music from that soundtrack, which is my favorite of the six. I tried to find a video of the isolated missing music. Instead, here's the complete music for the Hoth Battle, which was also mercilessly cut up in the movie (and also completely rocks!):

http://www.youtube.com/v/iKb_pMZyr5o
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 24, 2009, 05:23:38 PM
I am not worthy of your geekness.  :)

Yeah, I was so eager to tell you about the hidden themes I forgot to finish a sentence.  ;D

I was just going to say that as much as the film sucked, the music is as rich thematically as any of the other SW scores, and is still one of his best scores of the late 90s/early 00s period. If it wasn't for the gem that is A.I. i'd say it was Williams' last great score. It was all a bit downhill after that (as much as I'm fond of Minority Report, it's just not a scratch on anything previous).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 24, 2009, 05:29:33 PM
I've noticed that. There's a big chunk of music written for the beginning of Empire (after the Imperial Probe Droid lands on Hoth) that isn't even used at all. Incidentally, it's some of my favorite music from that soundtrack, which is my favorite of the six. I tried to find a video of the isolated missing music. Instead, here's the complete music for the Hoth Battle, which was also mercilessly cut up in the movie (and also completely rocks!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKb_pMZyr5o

The Empire Strikes Back is by far and away my favourite film score by any composer, and I reckon there's not a piece of music in any genre that i've listened to as intensely and repeatedly. The scoring of the Battle of Hoth and Asteroid Chase is simply jaw-dropping and inspired; even without the images, the music tells a compelling story that never fails to engage the imagination.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 24, 2009, 05:33:37 PM
Benji,
Really enjoyed the score (and the movie) to Minority Report.  Seemed like Williams doing Herrmann, so it worked for me.  Also enjoyed his Catch Me If You can effort.  Definitely showed his range.

Corey,
Very nice on the End Credits.  Thought it was at its best when the chorus was absent.  I have to say that I am VERY surprised that you do not have as many soundtracks as you do classical pieces, Corey.  Your taste in music seems to fit this genre, or at least a plethora of film music, like a glove.  Maybe you do own a lot and I am just not aware of it?  As for The Empire Strikes Back, easily my favorite as well....and Hoth was my all time favorite Star Wars' setting.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on March 24, 2009, 05:50:13 PM
Corey,
Very nice on the End Credits.  Thought it was at its best when the chorus was absent.  I have to say that I am VERY surprised that you do not have as many soundtracks as you do classical pieces, Corey.  Your taste in music seems to fit this genre, or at least a plethora of film music, like a glove.  Maybe you do own a lot and I am just not aware of it?  As for The Empire Strikes Back, easily my favorite as well....and Hoth was my all time favorite Star Wars' setting.

No, not one — which is sad considering how important the soundtracks for the Star Wars trilogy and Jurassic Park were for me in my formative years. I maintain that they've had, to this day, a lasting influence on my taste in music. Even so, today I'd rather hear soundtracks within the context of the film rather than on its own. Most film composers seem content with just a wash of chords (Hans Zimmer is really bad in this respect) with little or no variation in the orchestration (horns, strings, meh). The "Golden Age" Hollywood soundtracks are too repetitive and overbearing for me to really enjoy them.

Apart from Williams, I do think a lot of film soundtracks are good — I've listed them here on this site so many times it would be redundant to do so now. :)

Ahem, back to Star Wars — another of my favorite queues (starts at 4'40"):

http://www.youtube.com/v/5Rb2d-OSLDU&fmt=18
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on March 29, 2009, 08:15:40 AM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mSvmv1eMW4g/SXvy6MzF7SI/AAAAAAAAArs/T2YdFA2rULE/s320/Jerry+Goldsmith+At+20th+Century+Fox+Front.jpg)

Six CDs chock-full of some of the greatest music Jerry Goldsmith composed. It simply doesn't get much better than this.  :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 29, 2009, 08:33:51 AM
No, not one — which is sad considering how important the soundtracks for the Star Wars trilogy and Jurassic Park were for me in my formative years. I maintain that they've had, to this day, a lasting influence on my taste in music. Even so, today I'd rather hear soundtracks within the context of the film rather than on its own. Most film composers seem content with just a wash of chords (Hans Zimmer is really bad in this respect) with little or no variation in the orchestration (horns, strings, meh). The "Golden Age" Hollywood soundtracks are too repetitive and overbearing for me to really enjoy them.

Apart from Williams, I do think a lot of film soundtracks are good — I've listed them here on this site so many times it would be redundant to do so now. :)

Ahem, back to Star Wars — another of my favorite queues (starts at 4'40"):

http://www.youtube.com/v/5Rb2d-OSLDU&fmt=18

Oh dear, there is some dodgy editing in that sequence. Corey my friend, you owe it to yourself to buy these double disc gems:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511ESNA79GL._SL500_SS100_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21DW1XAVF8L._SL500_SS100_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J2C8E4M5L._SL500_SS100_.jpg)

If I hadn't ripped them to my computer, these discs would have probably melted from over-use by now!  ;D

p.s. there are newer releases of these sets, with original poster style art on the covers, claiming to be deluxe remasters, but they're exactly the same as these deluxe remasters. The new ones were just released to co-incide with the films appearing on DVD for the first time.

p.p.s these special edition ones have thick little booklets with very excellent and detailed liner notes

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 29, 2009, 08:37:13 AM
Also, avoid any re-recordings of the music, even ones with by Williams (i.e. the Skywalker Symphony Orchestra disc), they're all a bit crap. The London Symphony Orchestra owns this music.  0:)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 29, 2009, 08:45:35 AM
Ok, the clip didn't want to be embedded, so you'll have to watch it on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH5oRJKTWuc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH5oRJKTWuc)

Come on, we all do the same thing when that music comes on, am I right?  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 29, 2009, 08:47:56 AM
Stars Wars is pure cheese! Stick with Holst's Planets.  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/XVdfqEmGb8Y

 ;D

Well if you can't even spell it right you're not geeky enough to appreciate it!

But that clip was a hoot so i'll forgive you.  ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on March 29, 2009, 09:41:42 AM
James is a creep. Forget him.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 29, 2009, 10:47:05 AM
James is a creep. Forget him.

He'll be bantha fodder if he keeps up the anti-SW talk!  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on March 29, 2009, 02:24:33 PM
Oh dear, there is some dodgy editing in that sequence. Corey my friend, you owe it to yourself to buy these double disc gems:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511ESNA79GL._SL500_SS100_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21DW1XAVF8L._SL500_SS100_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J2C8E4M5L._SL500_SS100_.jpg)

If I hadn't ripped them to my computer, these discs would have probably melted from over-use by now!  ;D

p.s. there are newer releases of these sets, with original poster style art on the covers, claiming to be deluxe remasters, but they're exactly the same as these deluxe remasters. The new ones were just released to co-incide with the films appearing on DVD for the first time.

p.p.s these special edition ones have thick little booklets with very excellent and detailed liner notes



Ah, those are the ones I grew up on! My best friend at the time got those (I guess his parents bought them for him) after the Special Editions came out. I made copies of all of them on tape and listened for hours on a boombox with my ear next to the speaker. ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 29, 2009, 03:44:25 PM
Ah, those are the ones I grew up on! My best friend at the time got those (I guess his parents bought them for him) after the Special Editions came out. I made copies of all of them on tape and listened for hours on a boombox with my ear next to the speaker. ;D

I got mine all in one go in my first week of uni! Student loan cheque - ka ching!  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on March 30, 2009, 05:28:39 AM
Celebrated film composer Maurice Jarre has passed away at age 84.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7971223.stm

Just six weeks after he attended the Berlinale to pick up his honorary "Golden Bear".  :(

Some of his scores and individual tracks, especially "Building the Barn" from WITNESS, "Main Title" from IS PARIS BURNING? and the theme from VILLA RIDES, I will always remnber - even if his sometimes convoluted textures (e.g. the over-orchestration of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA) and some of his 1980s synthesizer scores are not my cuip of tea.

Listening to:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/95/11/c2eeb2c008a01fb882973010.L._AA240_.jpg)

Thomas

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 30, 2009, 05:31:57 AM
Celebrated film composer Maurice Jarre has passed away at age 84.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7971223.stm

Just six weeks after he attended the Berlinale to pick up his honorary "Golden Bear".  :(

Some of his scores and individual tracks, especially "Building the Barn" from WITNESS, "Main Title" from IS PARIS BURNING? and the theme from VILLA RIDES, I will always remnber - even if his sometimes convoluted textures (e.g. the over-orchestration of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA) and some of his 1980s synthesizer scores are not my cuip of tea.

Thomas

Discussing the soundtrack to Firefox on another thread, Thomas.  Maybe you can help:

There's a broad range of scores on this 2-disc set, but not Firefox.  I didn't realise he did that movie.  I remember loving the book but thinking the movie was just OK.  Is the music worth a listen?

This is quite beautifully played by (for the most part) the City of Prague Philharmonic:  http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Maurice-Jarre-Film-Collection/dp/B00004NRRB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1238418770&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Maurice-Jarre-Film-Collection/dp/B00004NRRB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1238418770&sr=1-1)

It has never been released on cd, or on any format for that reason I believe, Russel. http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/forum/displayquestion.php?topicid=2737

Was hopeful that there was a snippet of the music on your compilation.  They like to do that sometimes so folks like ourselves will buy the cd for a 2 minute queue.

I enjoyed the movie, but like yourself, the Craig Thomas book I thought better.  Did you ever read Firefox Down, the sequal.  Also a very good read.


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on March 30, 2009, 05:56:31 AM
There's never been an official soundtrack of FIREFOX, neither am I aware of any "promo" release. AFAIR only part of the score was symphonic, right?

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 30, 2009, 05:58:49 AM
There's never been an official soundtrack of FIREFOX, neither am I aware of any "promo" release. AFAIR only part of the score was symphonic, right?

Thomas

To be honest, I have to rewatch the film.  I was wondering if there just was not enough material.  Kind of like how the combined two of Conti's here:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41M7K4CBNTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 30, 2009, 06:08:11 AM
Just scanned through the film quickly Thomas....not much music, but a handful of neat queues.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 30, 2009, 06:09:56 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41M7K4CBNTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I confess I love that disc.  8)

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 30, 2009, 06:11:49 AM
I confess I love that disc.  8)

Sarge

Much (I believe) of the Right Stuff music I have, but not the North and South.  When I cannot find it, I just put on Holst's Planets.  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on March 30, 2009, 08:29:05 AM
... and Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto in D.  $:)

But "North and South" is a nice score.  :)

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on March 31, 2009, 06:37:32 AM
(http://www.bluediamondmusic.com/filmmusic2.jpg)

Very uneven performances of very uneven music.

I know this was praised to the skies (and beyond) by some film music reviewers, but as someone who is familiar with all of Lewis's film music output I must say that he is/was a minor film composer whose simplistic technique was greatly "improved on" by some of the orchestrators who worked for him, most notably Laurence Ashmore.

Part of the selections on this album were recorded with the (former East-)Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra in a series of catastrophic sessions brought about by the orchestra's lack of polish and enthusiasm for the music and by, truth be told, Michael J. Lewis inadequacies as a conductor. A friend of mine happened to be music supervisor on this one, trying to keep the expansive, and dreadfully nervous, Lewis in check (the producer himself could not be there, due to simultaneous sessions with Ron Goodwin in Odense, with a far happier outcome!). There are glaring mistakes in the Berlin cues, most obvious of all the fucked-up trumpet solo in "Caesar's Triumphant Return" from JULIUS CAESAR as well as untidy ensemble all over the place. There was rancor throughout the sessions; an orchestra spokesman approached my friend, pleading with him to "calm down and ease Lewis" - with the composer ranting about the "amateurishness" of the players. At one point it got so bad that Lewis stormed out during a session, and my friend (no experienced conductor either!) picked up the baton, ready to keep things going - but Lewis eventually returned.

The Berlin recording coincided with a live film music concert there, half of which featured Lewis's music. He himself conducted and confessed to my friend shortly before that he had never conducted in public - ever! As a result, he almost drowned in sweat even before the performance and his nervousness spilled over to the orchestra.

The remaining tracks are not all played by any "LA Ensemble", as claimed by Lewis, but are taken from the original soundtrack recordings, tapes of which Lewis was wise enough to keep. The whole CD was a kind of fraudulent enterprise, because Lewis was not allowed initially to use the Berlin tapes in his own release. Apparently, the producer and him came to some kind of mutual understanding later.

However, there are a few truly beautiful pieces, like the selections from THEATRE OF BLOOD (The Duel!) and UPON THIS ROCK - both, incidentally, orchestrated by Laurence Ashmore. Well, perhaps not quite so incidentally: After all, he helped out other composers a great deal, too - like Patrick Doyle on HENRY V. On those, he was MUCH more than just an orchestator. Lewis's own orchestrations, like FFOULKES or THE PASSAGE or the Theme from MADWOMAN OF CHAILLIOT, are hackneyed and simpleminded by comparison. The London recordings are much better played - London session musicians never needed an experienced conductor!

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Kullervo on April 04, 2009, 03:57:45 AM
A few years late, but I can't believe I never noticed it before.

http://cornonthekabob.ytmnd.com/
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on April 04, 2009, 04:20:53 AM
A few years late, but I can't believe I never noticed it before.

http://cornonthekabob.ytmnd.com/

Make sure to have your speakers turned on folks, otherwise you'll be staring at it and wondering what the hell it means...  :-[
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on April 17, 2009, 05:05:15 AM
(http://www.thesoundtracktoyourlife.co.uk/files/t_4090_01.jpg)

RAIDERS is not about the rather tepid "Raider's March" - it's about the sublime "The Map Room - Dawn" and the exciting "The Miracle of the Ark"!!!

I must say that I find the ignorance cum arrogance on film music on this board rather revolting - particularly since even more enlightened souls like Karl tend to poop on it - whose own music  I'm afraid (he sent me a link once) is asinine in comparison to Williams at his best. Sorry, Karl.

Thomas
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on April 17, 2009, 05:17:05 AM
Oh, my.  :o
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2009, 05:34:21 AM
Maurice Jarre's music for 'Jesus of Nazareth' (TV series) was very good - oddly like Martinu in places.

I've been listening to Copland's 'Music from the Movies' - a wonderfully inspiriting score.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on April 17, 2009, 03:29:19 PM
(http://www.thesoundtracktoyourlife.co.uk/files/t_4090_01.jpg)

RAIDERS is not about the rather tepid "Raider's March" - it's about the sublime "The Map Room - Dawn" and the exciting "The Miracle of the Ark"!!!

I must say that I find the ignorance cum arrogance on film music on this board rather revolting - particularly since even more enlightened souls like Karl tend to poop on it - whose own music  I'm afraid (he sent me a link once) is asinine in comparison to Williams at his best. Sorry, Karl.

Thomas

Raiders is an awesome score, from the height of JW's powers in the early 80s. I love the two cues you mentioned, plus the witty basket game cue. Did you pick up the recent extended edition, Thomas?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on April 18, 2009, 12:28:32 PM
(http://www.thesoundtracktoyourlife.co.uk/files/t_4090_01.jpg)

RAIDERS is not about the rather tepid "Raider's March" - it's about the sublime "The Map Room - Dawn" and the exciting "The Miracle of the Ark"!!!

Thomas

And finally back in print.  I have the original pressing and it would be interesting to compare the two.  Actually, the first three scores for this Jones run are excellent.  I need to pick up Temple of Doom (the film was dreadful) now that it is in print as well.


I must say that I find the ignorance cum arrogance on film music on this board rather revolting - particularly since even more enlightened souls like Karl tend to poop on it - whose own music  I'm afraid (he sent me a link once) is asinine in comparison to Williams at his best. Sorry, Karl.

Thomas

I agree with a partial of this component of your post,Thomas and that is comparing Karl to Johnny at his best.  ;) 

I enjoy both their music for different reasons, and when Williams steps outside of his "box" from time to time (ie Catch Me If You Can), then he does begin to explore Karl's range.  So ends my comparisons.

....but we measure ourselves by ourselves, and compare ourselves with ourselves. 2 Corinthians 10:12
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2009, 05:56:46 AM
This is a great CD. Extracts from Jason and the Argonauts exist on various Bernard Herrmann compilations but this CD has transformed my appreciation of this music, which cries out for a modern recording:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 16, 2009, 11:25:24 AM
This is a great CD. Extracts from Jason and the Argonauts exist on various Bernard Herrmann compilations but this CD has transformed my appreciation of this music, which cries out for a modern recording:



Did not know that this was available.  Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2009, 02:47:09 PM
Did not know that this was available.  Thanks for posting!

My pleasure - I wasn't aware of it myself until a couple of days ago and I have now played it through a couple of times with much pleasure. It includes music which was not used in the finished movie (like the poetic introduction to the reprise of the main theme in the closing titles).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2009, 10:42:18 PM
Did not know that this was available.  Thanks for posting!

ps Jason and the Argonauts was a 1999 release on Intrada - it has good, detailed notes and some nice photos and drawings from the movie.

pps congratulations on reaching over 5000 posts on the forum!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 17, 2009, 05:36:48 AM
ps Jason and the Argonauts was a 1999 release on Intrada - it has good, detailed notes and some nice photos and drawings from the movie.

pps congratulations on reaching over 5000 posts on the forum!

Well, I need to check its availability.....and 5000, which means only about 50 were worth reading. ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2009, 11:21:11 PM
Well, I need to check its availability.....and 5000, which means only about 50 were worth reading. ;D

Not true :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on July 04, 2009, 02:36:26 AM
What are you favourite film scores?

Some of mine are:

Conan the Barbarian: (Poledouris), a great score, like Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky" (really!)

The Heiress: Copland

Ivan the Terribe: Prokofiev

War and Peace (Russian): Ovchinnikov (wish it was on CD)

Shawshank Redemption/Green Mile: Thomas Newman

2001 A Space Odyssey: Ligeti etc

Dead of Night: Auric

The Cruel Sea: Rawsthorne

There are many more, but that will do for now.


Recently I posted a query about the work,"On the Banks of thr Vistula," and noted there was a strong similarity to one of the music themes by Jerry Livingston in the 1959 film, "The Hanging Tree,"  starring Gary Cooper.  There seems to be a strong resemblance between Lyatoshinsky's variation on the Polish folk song and the background music for a forgotten 1959 film.  Just a coincidence, I assume.  The music is somehow quite moving, at least to this listener.  Nobody responded to my earlier posting, but I was just curious.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2009, 02:51:18 AM

Recently I posted a query about the work,"On the Banks of thr Vistula," and noted there was a strong similarity to one of the music themes by Jerry Livingston in the 1959 film, "The Hanging Tree,"  starring Gary Cooper.  There seems to be a strong resemblance between Lyatoshinsky's variation on the Polish folk song and the background music for a forgotten 1959 film.  Just a coincidence, I assume.  The music is somehow quite moving, at least to this listener.  Nobody responded to my earlier posting, but I was just curious.

How very interesting! I don't know the movie but am a great admirer of Lyatoshinsky's music. I recently noticed the thematic connection between the opening of Vaughan Williams's 9th Symphony and the start on one of Walter Piston's New England Pictures (neither being movie scores of course!) - I then discovered that both works came from 1958, which interested me
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on July 04, 2009, 05:03:04 AM
How very interesting! I don't know the movie but am a great admirer of Lyatoshinsky's music. I recently noticed the thematic connection between the opening of Vaughan Williams's 9th Symphony and the start on one of Walter Piston's New England Pictures (neither being movie scores of course!) - I then discovered that both works came from 1958, which interested me

Thanks for the reply.  I just ordered the Lyatoshinsky 5th Symphony.  Wonderful composer.  I'm also going to check out this possible "Vistula" link to Polish folk music.  I'm sure the film scores similarity (which is all too brief) to the Lyatoshinsky theme is quite desultory and have nothing in common regarding any folk sources.  Yet the Lyatoshinsky work (recorded with the 4th Symphony) is a wonderful musical experience. At least to me.  "A chaqu'n son gout."
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2009, 05:45:43 AM
Thanks for the reply.  I just ordered the Lyatoshinsky 5th Symphony.  Wonderful composer.  I'm also going to check out this possible "Vistula" link to Polish folk music.  I'm sure the film scores similarity (which is all too brief) to the Lyatoshinsky theme is quite desultory and have nothing in common regarding any folk sources.  Yet the Lyatoshinsky work (recorded with the 4th Symphony) is a wonderful musical experience. At least to me.  "A chaqu'n son gout."

I will listen to 'On the Banks of the Vistula' again (I have the old Russian Disc and Marco Polo recordings of the symphonies) Symphony No 3 is my favourite but, like the Tubin symphonies, they are all good.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on July 05, 2009, 02:40:47 AM
I will listen to 'On the Banks of the Vistula' again (I have the old Russian Disc and Marco Polo recordings of the symphonies) Symphony No 3 is my favourite but, like the Tubin symphonies, they are all good.

Perhaps there is no "Vistula" folk song.  Lyatoshinsky alone conceived the melody.  Checked in various sources involving the river banks of the river and found that there were several WW II insights.  So many composers did utilize folk music in their involved classical creations.  Now that is a vast theme and probably is already threaded.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 19, 2009, 12:05:05 PM
Just picked up this re-pressed soundtrack.  The original vinyl goes for decent bucks.  The platter was only 9.

(http://waxidermy.com/images/mannix.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Coopmv on September 19, 2009, 02:22:06 PM
Bill, Good evening.  I have been watching this DVD that just arrived 2 days ago.  Symphonies Nos. 1 & 8 were excellent.  I will watch No. 9 after dinner.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vzjVj-a1L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 19, 2009, 02:23:17 PM
Very nice, Stuart! 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on October 21, 2009, 08:31:37 AM
Has anyone heard a score from the last year or two, or three even, that is actually worth hearing in isolation from the film?

Film music used to make up a fair portion of my listening time, much of it new, but I really struggle to find a really outstanding score from the last few years. The most recent I can think of at the moment is The Village (James Newton Howard), and that was 2004! After the success of Lord of the Rings I had high hopes for the future of grand orchestral film scoring but, perhaps predictably, the studios still turn to Hans Zimmer and his disciples/clones for their bargain basement electronic bumpf.

The biggest disappointment was Star Trek earlier this year. All that suceeded in doing was make me aware of how sorely missed Jerry Goldsmith is.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 21, 2009, 06:59:16 PM
Great question, Benji.  I believe there are only a handful.  Here are a couple, but even these are past your paremeters:

(http://filmmusic.ru/images/Master_and_Commander.JPG) 
2003

(http://images.bluebeat.com/an/9/3/7/0/3/l30739.jpg)
2004
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 21, 2009, 07:27:01 PM
Now this is a 1958 film, but the cd only was released in 2007 ;D:

(http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/m/miles-davis/album-ascenseur-pour-lechafaud-lift-to-the-scaffold-original-soundtrack.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 22, 2009, 07:36:05 PM
All that suceeded in doing was make me aware of how sorely missed Jerry Goldsmith is.

Yup.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on October 23, 2009, 07:37:47 AM
I haven't bought a movie soundtrack in a long time (apart from a Franz Waxman box set). The last 'recent' movie soundtrack I bought was probably 'Narnia' or 'Little Miss Sunshine'.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Air on October 24, 2009, 10:58:17 AM
The film version of Alexander Nevsky has been often overlooked by the Cantata, but in my opinion is far better!  Eisenstein's collaboration with Prokofiev has been a model for many modern films as well.

Anyways, it's hard to find a copy of Nevsky with great sound.   :(
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: knight66 on November 08, 2009, 06:08:51 AM
I assume you mean of the film.

The cantata has a number of recordings with excellent sound. Jarvi and Abbado are but two.

Mike
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sorin Eushayson on November 08, 2009, 09:55:05 PM
(http://filmmusic.ru/images/Master_and_Commander.JPG) 
2003

That's the one that got me onto Boccherini!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on November 10, 2009, 05:09:18 AM
The film version of Alexander Nevsky has been often overlooked by the Cantata, but in my opinion is far better!  Eisenstein's collaboration with Prokofiev has been a model for many modern films as well.

Anyways, it's hard to find a copy of Nevsky with great sound.   :(

It is good but actually I prefer Prokofiev's score to 'Ivan the Terrible'.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 08, 2010, 04:38:17 PM
Continuing score listening:
 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VJ2WGXK4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Less than average for a super hero score, with a few tracks that range above. Death Camp and Magneto's Lair worth the listen. Techno layer just does not work here and orchestra should have been left alone to carry the day.  1 out of 5 stars.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 09, 2010, 07:38:44 PM
(http://bp1.blogger.com/__QB-I4pPvBM/R-52vQBIlSI/AAAAAAAAAVo/jm3H4gDEg6c/s320/Hook_Epic_EPC_469349_2.jpg)

A somewhat put aside William's score.  Though I found the movie nearly unwatchable, the music, save a couple of queues work nicely.  Think Harry Potter with a dash of Home Alone, but not as memorable.   3 out of 5 stars here.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 09, 2010, 09:40:00 PM
Another from John Williams:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31FGAEBGZTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Could not hear a "William's footprint" on this one.  Dark and foreboding throughout most of the score.  The last two tracks were average, but the rest was excellent!  4 out of 5 stars.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 10, 2010, 07:01:36 AM
Image is blocked for me, Bill; which movie is't?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 10, 2010, 08:39:52 AM
Image is blocked for me, Bill; which movie is't?

In Bill's absence, I'll reply: Nixon.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on March 10, 2010, 10:51:07 AM
Just bought this - one of Jerry Goldsmith's best scores I think:
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 10, 2010, 11:36:49 AM
Thanks, Sarge!  Why is Bill absent?  Out on a plumbing assignment? . . .
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on March 10, 2010, 01:36:44 PM
Another from John Williams:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31FGAEBGZTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Could not hear a "William's footprint" on this one.  Dark and foreboding throughout most of the score.  The last two tracks were average, but the rest was excellent!  4 out of 5 stars.


I have always thought that one of the best scores by John Williams was for Brian DePalma's wild psychic-psycho-drama The Fury from the late '70's.

Kirk Douglas, John Cassavetes, and Charles Durning!


(http://www.impawards.com/1978/posters/fury.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 10, 2010, 01:48:14 PM
Thanks, Sarge!  Why is Bill absent?  Out on a plumbing assignment? . . .

 ;D  I don't know. I just read your post, noticed Bill wasn't online, and decided to answer.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: drogulus on March 10, 2010, 02:35:33 PM

     Ennio Morricone wrote a great score for The Thing, a scifi/horror film by John Carpenter that has achieved classic status, though it wasn't much noticed when it was released in 1982.

     (http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6439/thething1982blurayre108.jpg)

     (http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6439/thething1982blurayre108.jpg)

     Yes, you're such a good doggie... (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/shocked.gif)

     
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 10, 2010, 05:00:38 PM
Thanks, Sarge!  Why is Bill absent?  Out on a plumbing assignment? . . .

Now that is funny!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 10, 2010, 05:04:28 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YGZmm52DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

When I put on an Elfman cd, I have come to expect brilliance and the unexpected.  This score had neither.  The Main Title was not bad, but it suffered from having too much of his Batman in it.  The End Credits did a bit better with this, but that was track 15.  2-14 were not memorable.  Not bad, but not memorable.  2 out of 5 stars here.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 10, 2010, 05:07:08 PM

I have always thought that one of the best scores by John Williams was for Brian DePalma's wild psychic-psycho-drama The Fury from the late '70's.

Kirk Douglas, John Cassavetes, and Charles Durning!



I have heard only wonderful things about the music.  I will put this on my wish-list....but not the enhanced version:

http://www.amazon.com/Fury-John-Williams/dp/B000063BNL/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1268269523&sr=1-3   :o
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 10, 2010, 05:09:16 PM
     Ennio Morricone wrote a great score for The Thing, a scifi/horror film by John Carpenter that has achieved classic status, though it wasn't much noticed when it was released in 1982.

     Yes, you're such a good doggie... (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/shocked.gif)


     

Doggone it!

http://www.amazon.com/Thing-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/B0000014RQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1268269653&sr=1-1
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 10, 2010, 05:13:17 PM
;D  I don't know. I just read your post, noticed Bill wasn't online, and decided to answer.

Sarge

Thank you, Henry. ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 10, 2010, 05:19:42 PM
Now that is funny!

(* tips his hat *)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 10, 2010, 06:44:20 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HTTEYEBPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

An easy 5 out of 5 stars.  Some great "Conti-grooves" along with fun piano pieces backed by orchestra.  Even the four "songs" on the cd work.  In fact, the second, "Sinnerman " queues my favorite scene from the movie (of which I love).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0KK0msnLhw

Wish the tracks were sequential on the disc, but a minor nuisance.

PS Did not care for the original.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 11, 2010, 02:53:56 AM
PS Did not care for the original.

Not even Windmills of Your Miind? That's one of my favorite 60s pop songs...won the Oscar for best song too (although that might be counted against it  ;D )

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 11, 2010, 04:11:39 AM
Not even Windmills of Your Miind? That's one of my favorite 60s pop songs...won the Oscar for best song too (although that might be counted against it  ;D )

Sarge

Oh, I a was referring to the movie, Sarge.  The soundtrack may just work. ;D  Sting redoes this song on the one above.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 11, 2010, 04:37:37 AM
Oh, I a was referring to the movie, Sarge.

Wow...I am shocked now. You prefer Brosnan/Russo to McQueen/Dunaway?  :o  The Apocalypse is nigh!...

 :) ;D

I admit my love of the earlier version says more about my mental state, my love life--or lack thereof--in 1968/69 than a belief the film was superior.  Dunaway's shock when she realizes she's been betrayed, and the cut to McQueen's smile as his plane whisks him away was vicarious revenge for me  8)  That image has stayed in my mind all these years. The newer film wasn't as memorable. I can't even recall how it ends.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on March 11, 2010, 09:37:12 AM
I have heard only wonderful things about the music.  I will put this on my wish-list....but not the enhanced version:

http://www.amazon.com/Fury-John-Williams/dp/B000063BNL/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1268269523&sr=1-3   :o

I see why!  $100 + is a little steep!   $:)

If you would want to take a chance on a cassette tape, two are available for under $15.00:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00000EXTP/ref=dp_olp_1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00000EXTP/ref=dp_olp_1)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 11, 2010, 07:11:17 PM
I see why!  $100 + is a little steep!   $:)

If you would want to take a chance on a cassette tape, two are available for under $15.00:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00000EXTP/ref=dp_olp_1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00000EXTP/ref=dp_olp_1)

There are decently priced ones for the un-enhanced, so I may go that route. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 11, 2010, 07:21:40 PM
(http://www.soundtrack-club.net/content/images/0011756CD.jpg)

Jazzy spy music....right up my alley.  However, I was disappointed with the overall output.  Not enough range and with the exception of some gimmicky masking over with ports of call music, everything seemed to have run together.  However, still 2 out of 5 stars on this one in putting together all the music you could possibly want from this show.   
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 12, 2010, 04:18:08 PM
Three pieces of vinyl bought today.  The fairly rare Black Hole score:

(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/7241/coverse9.jpg)

and two Goldsmith efforts:

(http://www.musicobsession.com/Pictures/s/o/soundtrack415952.jpg)  (http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/soundtracks/656-1.jpg)

I grabbed the Patton due to it being the only recording of this score that seems to get decent reviews and has his speech at the start.

On cd:

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/916/ter2ba3.jpg)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 13, 2010, 06:43:43 AM
Some more movie listening:

(http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/soundtracks/656-1.jpg)

Great scoring by Goldsmith. The underlying French music just works wondefully here. He has to be one of the few that can pull this off considering the setting of the movie.  5 out of 5 stars.

(http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/69a3e605243a3041fc2760c8ad90e249/333436.jpg)

Heralded as a great score, I found it so-so with actually few memorable moments. I did not care for the movie at all either.  However, I can see the appeal to some.  2 out of 5 stars.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 13, 2010, 11:45:05 AM
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/916/ter2ba3.jpg)

Love the industrial overtones on this one. Not too over the top. Steady and very enjoyable.  5 stars out of 5. 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on March 19, 2010, 04:54:42 AM
What are you favourite film scores?

Some of mine are:

Conan the Barbarian: (Poledouris), a great score, like Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky" (really!)

The Heiress: Copland

Ivan the Terribe: Prokofiev

War and Peace (Russian): Ovchinnikov (wish it was on CD)

Shawshank Redemption/Green Mile: Thomas Newman

2001 A Space Odyssey: Ligeti etc

Dead of Night: Auric

The Cruel Sea: Rawsthorne

There are many more, but that will do for now.


Anyone out there interested in the film scores of Laurence Rosenthal?  He's been a long time favorite of mine, including John Williama, and JG.

http://www.laurencerosenthal.com/Laurence%20Rosenthal.html
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jimmosk on March 19, 2010, 06:32:20 AM
Anybody here familiar with Yoko Kanno, a Japanese film composer who mostly writes scores for anime? She's done some lovely stuff, in a wide variety of styles. Here's one track in a John-Williams/Erich-Wolfgang-Korngold vein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ4jyFdsG-Q

I've heard only a few of her scores -- can anyone recommend more?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Benji on March 19, 2010, 06:26:17 PM
Just bought this - one of Jerry Goldsmith's best scores I think:

Yeah, brilliant theme, very...muscular music! There are a few good other performances of the theme, much better than the one on the original soundtrack recording.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on April 03, 2010, 02:22:01 AM
Lovely new CD of Bliss's film music (from Marco Polo). I posted at greater length on the Bliss thread in the composer's section.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on April 13, 2010, 09:07:42 AM
Someone here must have known, but I didn't: John Williams (credited as "Johnny Williams") wrote the theme music for Lost in Space . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/v/80TAVW3paBA
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on April 13, 2010, 12:23:33 PM
Someone here must have known, but I didn't: John Williams (credited as "Johnny Williams") wrote the theme music for Lost in Space . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/v/80TAVW3paBA

Indeed.  Just discussing this credit with my wife the other day, Karl as he was on CBS Sunday Morning discussing the time when he played piano for  Vic Damone.   I have him credited with this name on my Land of the Giants cd.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 23, 2010, 02:30:18 PM
Just snagged  these three on vinyl today:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HU2Y85Fw5RA/S-r3crngABI/AAAAAAAAAlg/Tm69Vn0I7PA/s1600/zentner,+si+warning+shot+front.jpg)  (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5021123796_38d941eca0.jpg)  (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4776842923_1f7ae2f6af.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidRoss on December 23, 2010, 03:13:29 PM
Someone here must have known, but I didn't: John Williams (credited as "Johnny Williams") wrote the theme music for Lost in Space . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/v/80TAVW3paBA
Re-orchestrate it for soprano, tone generator, and 16 riding lawnmowers and then label it as a work by Stockhausen.  Then let's see whether James approves!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 02, 2011, 05:06:50 PM
Was given these pieces of music over Christmas:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Z3Nl2MFhL._AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Nz0fn36EL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Ty6w47FXL._AA160_.jpg)

The Black Hole I had on vinyl, now I have digitally as well.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on January 02, 2011, 05:15:25 PM
I don't think I ever saw Black Hole.

I mean, where could the movie possibly go?
; )
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Daverz on January 02, 2011, 05:46:45 PM
I don't think I ever saw Black Hole.

I mean, where could the movie possibly go?
; )

As I remember, it was pretty bad.  Whether it was so bad, it was good, I don't remember.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 02, 2011, 06:09:19 PM
As I remember, it was pretty bad.  Whether it was so bad, it was good, I don't remember.

Just dreadful....unwatchable, IMO, but great score!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Lethevich on January 03, 2011, 09:44:56 PM
Some good news for the fans of Poledouris' Conan soundtrack:

http://www.pragueorchestras.com/conan.htm
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on February 28, 2011, 07:13:57 PM
Some good news for the fans of Poledouris' Conan soundtrack:

http://www.pragueorchestras.com/conan.htm

Yup.  The Oscars have me in the mood for some soundtrack listening.

Today:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51I-scZKUFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Good movie.  Great score.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/16/b4/9015c060ada06194443c2210.L._AA300_.jpg)

Awful movie.  Very nice score.

and right now:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410BPH4XNKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I believe though that I like this re-recording as much if not more than the original above.  Just cleaner sounding and I remember reading somewhere where Bernstein gave it his stamp of approval.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61sn-9IsZnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2011, 04:03:25 PM
Some more film score listening this week:

OOP, but worth every penny:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516HSFZSQAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Horner's best?  Maybe.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DbRvC5baL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

One of the few scores that holds up with dialogue and pop music used in the movie added to the cd.  Or is this Horner's best? ;D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RKmuoow8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Some queues are absolutely iconic, but the rest of Johnny's efforts hear are well worth the listen as well:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/317VFFY504L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Classic Steiner!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tbHNKYk4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2011, 04:33:20 PM
Some good news for the fans of Poledouris' Conan soundtrack:

http://www.pragueorchestras.com/conan.htm

Lethe,
This posted on the forum of the soundtrack board I haunt from time to time.  The last post is of the most interest:

http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/forum/displayquestion.php?topicid=14846

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2011, 07:00:36 PM
(http://991.com/newGallery/Bernard-Herrmann-The-Composer-Cond-483098.jpg)

Great compilation album.  The cover is kind of misleading (there is one track from Psycho, but that is it).  The Phase 4 vinyl sounds great here.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on March 03, 2011, 11:23:15 PM
Ennio Morricone: Dollars Trilogy, Once upon a time-Trilogy, My name is nobody.

John Williams: Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, E.T.

James Horner: Mask of Zorro, Wrath of KHHHHHAAAAAANNNN, Titanic.

Danny Elfman: Spiderman movies, Batman, Beetlejuice.

Alan Silvestri: Back to the future, Forrest Gump.

John Barry: Several Bond movies. Btw: R.I.P.

Klaus Badelt: PotC.

Nino Rota: Godfather 1 & 2.

Bernard Herrmann: Psycho, Citizen Kane, Vertigo, the man who knew too much.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 05, 2011, 07:23:01 AM
Wrath of KHHHHHAAAAAANNNN
;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rJqLiJSZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Just snagged this one last night and giving it a second spin.  The sound and the score are fabulous..  The use of the Royal microphones from the 1920's was brilliant!

(http://www.abbeyroad.com/uploads/uploads/ma_32106709.9.jpg)
http://www.abbeyroad.com/news/story/?newsid=146
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 05, 2011, 10:03:38 AM
Got this one from Shore spinning....really enjoyed this film as well.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51e-6AK%2B8mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 05, 2011, 02:14:39 PM
Due to Alberich's post:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VP6WX9D3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on March 05, 2011, 07:13:20 PM
Ennio Morricone: Dollars Trilogy, Once upon a time-Trilogy, My name is nobody.

John Williams: Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, E.T.

James Horner: Mask of Zorro, Wrath of KHHHHHAAAAAANNNN, Titanic.

Danny Elfman: Spiderman movies, Batman, Beetlejuice.

Alan Silvestri: Back to the future, Forrest Gump.

John Barry: Several Bond movies. Btw: R.I.P.

Klaus Badelt: PotC.

Nino Rota: Godfather 1 & 2.

Bernard Herrmann: Psycho, Citizen Kane, Vertigo, the man who knew too much.

I just saw the film "Obsession."  Bernard Herman's score is quite powerful.  I also own his symphony.  a significant composer.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 06, 2011, 11:48:04 AM
Just grabbed this piece of vinyl:

(http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/146/752/717/7RuP.jpg)

Does not seem to be on cd.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 08, 2011, 08:06:07 PM
Another Alex North effort:

(http://cdn2.iofferphoto.com/img/item/176/051/587/CUPI.jpg)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on March 09, 2011, 06:51:55 AM
Franz Waxman's Taras Bulba score can be sampled here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPZvpzmOVg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPZvpzmOVg&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Apparently a new CD will be available.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 09, 2011, 01:43:15 PM
Interesting bit about William Walton (not a 'game-changer' for this thread, of course).  Source is Wikipedia, so . . . open to confirmation or refutation:

Quote
He wrote scores for six films during the war – some that he thought "rather boring" and some that have become classics such as The First of the Few (1942) and Laurence Olivier's adaptation of Shakespeare's Henry V (1944). Walton was at first dismissive of his film scores, regarding them as professional but of no intrinsic worth; he resisted attempts to arrange them into concert suites, saying, "Film music is not good film music if it can be used for any other purpose." He later relented to the extent of allowing concert suites to be arranged from The First of the Few and the Olivier Shakespeare films.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 12, 2011, 05:49:45 AM
Interesting bit about William Walton (not a 'game-changer' for this thread, of course).  Source is Wikipedia, so . . . open to confirmation or refutation:

Interesting interview with Aaron Copland:

http://www.runmovies.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117:aaron-copland-talks-about-film-music&catid=35:interviews&ltemid=55

Quote
Roger Hall: You put together a concert suite, ‘Music for Movies’. Is that like other suites you did, such as from your ballet score, Appalachian Spring?
Aaron Copland: Yes, it’s very similar.

...

Roger Hall: Some past film composers believed that you shouldn’t be too aware of the music.
Aaron Copland: I believe too that it shouldn’t take up so much of your attention that you stop thinking about the film. It’s a high art, I think, to write a really effective film score that doesn’t get in the way and serves a fully emotional purpose.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 12, 2011, 09:13:56 AM
Dusty old meaningless quotes ...obviously it isn't a true 'high musical art' .. This thread should actually be in the Diner section of the forum where the rest of the pop cul. & movie stuff resides. "shouldn't take up your attention ... music that doesn't get in the way & serves a fully emotional purpose" (to artificially support all of what's happening on the screen) is telling & pretty much sums it up - background decor in other words.

Your snide and uninformed comments about film music (actually, about a variety of musics) have already been systematically refuted in other threads. Vide http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15153.0.html

The way you repeatedly resort to mockery or arrogant dismissal says more about you than the music. And to use "dusty old" as a pejorative among fans of classical music is rather odd: Bach and Beethoven's music is dusty and old, but I have to say, it's not bad :) Odd, too, to dismiss quotes from major classical composers who created film music, i.e., experts on the subject.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 12, 2011, 11:45:54 AM
Yea .. systematically refuted with a lot of hot air. Keep desperately trying to prop up the film fluff with more wind. Your logic on this is so flawed,hopefully one day you'll come around. Again .. "shouldn't take up your attention ... music that doesn't get in the way & serves a fully emotional purpose" (to artificially support all of what's happening on the screen) is telling & pretty much sums it up - background decor in other words.

Hmm, for a "dusty old meaningless quote," you sure like to quote it. Does that mean your point is meaningless? :) Unfortunate, too, that you edit and add to what Copland says.

What, btw, is my flawed logic?

I wonder why you feel the need to repeatedly pop up in threads and dismiss or mock things you dislike. Are your taste and judgment really so refined that we all need to keep hearing about them? I don't care for the rap I've heard, to use an example, but I certainly don't make a point of telling people rap is bad or not "high" art, first out of courtesy to those who do enjoy it, and secondly because I'm very far from an expert on it. Only after spending years listening to it, performing it, studying it, and immersing myself in the culture might I be in a position to offer a nuanced, considered opinion.

Like Socrates said, you're only wise insofar as you recognize your ignorance.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 12, 2011, 04:10:30 PM
I was stuffing that 'google dropping' back in your face because it's basically stating what it truly is. Read it & think (for yourself if possible).
We do think for ourselves, James.  That's how we come to different conclusions than you do. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: The new erato on March 13, 2011, 03:06:11 AM
We do think for ourselves, James.  That's how we come to different conclusions than you do. :)
Good riposte!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on March 14, 2011, 04:51:48 PM
Hi, I've been looking into film music again recently, and have some questions for the panel:

1) There are two rerecordings of the Lawrence of Arabia score, one conducted by Bremner and one by Nic Raine. Any preference? (I understand the original issue of the Bremner had problematic sound, but assume this is fixed in the reissue.)

2) Raine has also recorded the complete score of Conan the Barbarian. Is this good enough that I can I opt for this in preference to the (incomplete) issue of the original?

Many thanks.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 15, 2011, 05:13:54 AM
2) Raine has also recorded the complete score of Conan the Barbarian. Is this good enough that I can I opt for this in preference to the (incomplete) issue of the original?

I'm interested to learn this, too. It's one of the great film scores, but the old Varese Sarabande release sounded pretty darn tinny to my ears.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 15, 2011, 07:42:01 PM
There's actually a lot of good film music out there, especially in the older films. I think to dismiss it out-of-hand without giving a fair shot to begin with is very immature. Film music covers a wide variety of music. A few great film scores that pop in my mind are Arnold's The Bridge On River Kwai, Alwyn's The Odd Man Out, almost all of the Ennio Morricone scores I've encountered, Jerry Goldsmith's great scores like Chinatown, Star Trek, The Omen, Rambo: First Blood, to name a few. Whether one thinks its high art or low art is totally irrelevant in the end, the question is have you actually listened to the music on its own terms and most of the film music I've heard could very well stand on it's own. I think James' attitude about this is disappointing. How could someone who is as old as he says he is be so ignorant?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 16, 2011, 05:14:10 AM
name a few. Whether one thinks its high art or low art is totally irrelevant in the end, the question is have you actually listened to the music on its own terms and most of the film music I've heard could very well stand on it's own. I think James' attitude about this is disappointing. How could someone who is as old as he says he is be so ignorant?

You raise an interesting point. I think you're absolutely right in that the fair--and often the most edifying--way to approach an art form is to get inside it and approach it on its own terms instead of through alien criteria. You also say that most of the film music you've heard stands well on its own, and while I don't disagree, I worry about approaching it from that direction. Then people start judging it by the expectations of stand-alone concert music, standards that don't always apply since a score is designed to act in conjunction with all the other aspects of a film: script, photography, production design, editing, etc. Whether or not a score can stand alone--and how precisely does one define that?--doesn't necessarily speak to its quality or worth. What does speak to its success is how well it helps create the Gesamtkunstwerk, so to speak.


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 10:41:05 AM
You raise an interesting point. I think you're absolutely right in that the fair--and often the most edifying--way to approach an art form is to get inside it and approach it on its own terms instead of through alien criteria. You also say that most of the film music you've heard stands well on its own, and while I don't disagree, I worry about approaching it from that direction. Then people start judging it by the expectations of stand-alone concert music, standards that don't always apply since a score is designed to act in conjunction with all the other aspects of a film: script, photography, production design, editing, etc. Whether or not a score can stand alone--and how precisely does one define that?--doesn't necessarily speak to its quality or worth. What does speak to its success is how well it helps create the Gesamtkunstwerk, so to speak.

I just enjoy the music regardless of what its purpose is or isn't. I've heard a ton of supposed "ballet music" that it makes me wonder how it could be performed as a ballet. In most cases, conductors turn the ballet into more of a concert piece instead of what it was originally intended for and I'm perfectly find with that. All that matters to me, in the end, is does it move me emotionally and intellectually? If music does this for me, then it doesn't matter if it's a symphony, a concerto, a ballet, or a film score.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 16, 2011, 11:13:59 AM
On a serious level - no soundtrack stuff - has ever been able to this for me [emphasis added]. VERY low mileage .. and music-making of this sort just will never have the ability to make a deep and lasting impression. It doesn't have the right fuel to begin with, for that ...

You confuse your personal experiences with universal truths.

I just enjoy the music regardless of what its purpose is or isn't. I've heard a ton of supposed "ballet music" that it makes me wonder how it could be performed as a ballet. In most cases, conductors turn the ballet into more of a concert piece instead of what it was originally intended for and I'm perfectly find with that. All that matters to me, in the end, is does it move me emotionally and intellectually? If music does this for me, then it doesn't matter if it's a symphony, a concerto, a ballet, or a film score.

I understand. I too listen to music first and foremost for pleasure. But when one seeks to judge a film score, I think it's relevant and fair to discuss it in context. Even if a film score doesn't provide a lot of stand-alone listening enjoyment, that doesn't mean it's failed since it was created for a different purpose.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 16, 2011, 11:16:29 AM
On a serious level - no soundtrack stuff - has ever been able to this for me. VERY low mileage .. and music-making of this sort just will never have the ability to make a deep and lasting impression. It doesn't have the right fuel to begin with, for that ...
Let me give you a hypothetical situation:

You and I go to see a new movie at the same theater on the same night, with music by a leading contemporary composer.  You are unmoved by the soundtrack, while I listen enthralled.  Now, which of our experiences is valid?

Before you answer, let me remind you that I have a college degree in music and three decades' experience playing in orchestras and bands...(This last is NOT hypothetical! :))
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 11:23:53 AM
On a serious level - no soundtrack stuff - has ever been able to this for me. VERY low mileage .. and music-making of this sort just will never have the ability to make a deep and lasting impression. It doesn't have the right fuel to begin with, for that ...

James, I seldom listen to film music, not because I find it to be inferior, but because there's still so much music I want to hear. I have, however, as I mentioned in a few posts back, heard some remarkable music composed in this genre. I mean even Honegger, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich, among others, found the time to write film music. The golden age of film music is one of great importance and a lot of it is not like it is today with all the synthesizers, samplers, etc. that we have at our disposal, but these composers wrote music for an orchestra to play to accompany the film. You may not respect the art, but I do and I also understand its history and why it was an important step forward as another medium for a composer to express themselves creatively.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 16, 2011, 11:24:30 AM
Let me give you a hypothetical situation:

You and I go to see a new movie at the same theater on the same night, with music by a leading contemporary composer.  You are unmoved by the soundtrack, while I listen enthralled.  Now, which of our experiences is valid?

Before you answer, let me remind you that I have a college degree in music and three decades' experience playing in orchestras and bands...(This last is NOT hypothetical! :))

James is always right. How dare you?  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 16, 2011, 11:34:57 AM
I mean even Honegger, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich, among others, found to time to write film music.

And then there's Prokofiev, Arnold, Korngold, Bax, Walton, Copland, Schnittke, Madetoja, Corigliano, Bernstein, Takemitsu, Glass, Ibert, to name but a few. And Schoenberg wanted to.

As a side note, orchestral video game scores merit attention:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/arts/music/28schw.html
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 16, 2011, 11:42:43 AM
Why just the other day I revisited the Lt Kizhe Suite. Nothing second-rate about that film music.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 12:08:57 PM
In a lesser more subservient manor of course .. and to have a job & collect a paycheck basically. And it doesn't matter what it's played on, or who's involved - that's besides the point. As far as 'real' music-making goes it's merely artifical and decorative when you get right down to it. It really is just a byproduct of popular culture showbiz, it's not really deep musically artistic material.

Well nobody is going to change your mind about the music, so therefore, it's quite pointless to argue with somebody whose opinion is based upon nothing but a couple of ridiculous assertions that have nothing to do with the actual music. Film music is a legitimate art as many composers looked to it to get outside of their box. Yes, some wrote it to make money, because they just weren't making enough to get by and not all composers were fortunate enough to hold a teaching post at a university, but making a quick buck can be said of concert music as well. Ravel reportedly hated Bolero, but he made a lot of money from it, so your whole argument is pretty much null and void in this regard.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 12:22:43 PM

No it's entirely based on what I have heard (i.e. the music).

Sure you have.  ::)

Film can provide work for those musicians needing it essentially. It truly has nothing to do with deeply artistic music-making as I said before.

As I said, nobody can convince of the merits of film music, but, then again, with your narrow-minded outlook, who would want to try? Your attitude is essentially the same in every one of your arguments: you're right and everybody else is wrong.

I'm starting to highly doubt this "James" is actually 60 years old as it says on his homepage.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 12:34:11 PM
It would be real easy actually, name me some music from a film that exceeds all expectations. I really don't think that can be done.

I already mentioned some in an earlier post. Like I said, it's pointless to argue with somebody who is as narrow-minded as you are.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Brewski on March 16, 2011, 12:53:19 PM
Since Salonen is in town with the New York Philharmonic, I have been reminded of this recording, which has been mentioned before. Although it only includes excerpts, rather than entire scores, Salonen gets some great results from the Los Angeles Philharmonic. I think it's worth it for the segments from Vertigo alone.



--Bruce
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 16, 2011, 01:45:11 PM
It would be real easy actually, name me some music from a film that exceeds all expectations...
1.  Been there, done that.

2.  Why should we, when you haven't yet responded to my hypothetical situation? ???
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 16, 2011, 03:10:54 PM
I go to a movie because I buy into to the concept/premise of the story, that's why I go ... so that's what I'm primarily focused-on and interested in. So the set-up to have a mind blowing experience on purely musical grounds is a non-starter because it's not really about the music.

So it's all about you.  Since you are not interested in the music in movies, it can't possibly be good.   ::)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 16, 2011, 03:32:14 PM
I never said that, but we really haven't experienced anything truly 'great' or 'major' as far as music is concerned. And I doubt we ever will. But then again, any musician who signs up for a gig in film knows major artistic compromises must be made, and that the focus isn't serious music-making, first & foremost.

JSB signed up for a "gig" to provide boring music for church every Sunday, and for funerals.  It didn't prevent him from writing some extraordinary music.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 03:36:10 PM
JSB signed up for a "gig" to provide boring music for church every Sunday, and for funerals.  It didn't prevent him from writing some extraordinary music.

The same could be said of Bruckner playing organ at Linz Cathedral and so many other composers. James' logic just confuses me, but it's like I said, he's right, and everybody else is wrong.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 16, 2011, 03:43:12 PM
And 260 years later its still full of great mystery & beauty etc. ..  will any soundtrack stuff measure up when stacked up to the untouchable JSB ? Never. It an absolutely meaningless affair in comparison.

I hope you will excuse me if I decline to take your word for it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 03:45:03 PM
And 260 years later its still full of great mystery & beauty etc. ..  will any soundtrack stuff measure up when stacked up to the untouchable JSB ? Never. It an absolutely meaningless affair in comparison.

Again, everybody is wrong, but you, James. Relish in your superior opinion while we all continue to laugh at how foolish that opinion actually is, especially given the absurdity that surrounds it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 16, 2011, 03:58:13 PM
You don't have to take my word for it. It's reality.

Yes, your opinion is reality, that's the crux of it.   :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 04:03:21 PM
You don't have to take my word for it. It's reality. Given the nature of showbiz, what it's made-of, & it's track record thus far - I KNOW - it can never approach Bach's deep ever growing and expanding importance & stature ..

James, you continue to post, but nothing is being said that we didn't already know. We understand that you have problems accepting and understanding that the world doesn't revolve around you and your high and mighty opinion. Please just go troll on another thread.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 04:05:45 PM
Yes, your opinion is reality, that's the crux of it.   :)

James' signature says everything about him: "Everybody is entitled to their opinion. It's just that yours is stupid." I hope I don't act this way at the age of "60."  ::)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 04:09:52 PM
The fact that Bach's been around this long is a fact of reality. It has nothing to do with my opinion. And when I say no soundtracks could ever touch that .. is also a fact of reality.

Music is one giant competition to you isn't it, James? It's always a matter of what is better or whose composition is better. I mean do you ever just sit back and enjoy music without your constant need to criticize it? Seriously if you don't like film music and don't respect the art, then why are you still on this thread? Don't you have more constructive things to do like play bingo or something?

You exhibit such wisdom for someone who is in their 60s. Wow, I want to be like you when I grow up! ::) NOT!!!! :P
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 16, 2011, 04:31:40 PM
I care about it too much to just simply take it all in mindlessly. Critical thinking, and judging by comparison is just so reality.

I do the same things, but sometimes, I just want to hear the music on its own terms.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on March 16, 2011, 05:49:16 PM
James: "Film music is bad."
Me: "Why?"
James: "Because it's bad."
Me: "But why?"
James: "Because it's bad."
Me: "Why?"
James: "Because it's bad."
Me: "But, seriously, why?"
James: "Because it's bad."
Me: "But why is it bad?"
James: "Because it's bad."
Me: "Listen, I'd like a proper answer to this question. Why is film music bad?"
James: "Because it's bad."
Me: "Look, if you don't give me a serious and considered answer to this question, I am going to jam this pen into your eye. Why exactly is film music so bad?"
James: "Because it's baAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHH!!!"

:)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 16, 2011, 08:58:04 PM
The fact that Bach's been around this long is a fact of reality. It has nothing to do with my opinion.
True.
And when I say no soundtracks could ever touch that .. is also a fact of reality.
False.  We cannot know what people two centuries from now will think of, say, Bernard Herrmann's score for Citizen Kane (I saw this recently and thoroughly enjoyed it, including the music!), any more than other musicians in the Baroque period could have known that we'd still be playing and listening to J.S. Bach's music.  But it begins to seem that you cannot tell the difference between your opinions and reality.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2011, 04:13:34 AM
Quote
And when I say no soundtracks could ever touch that .. is also a fact of reality.

Ladies & gentlemen, it is official: James really does not know what a fact is.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2011, 04:29:47 AM
The fact is that “this cannot touch that” has no purchase in terms of comparative valuation.  If it mean anything, it means simply that an apple cannot touch an orange.
 
Shostakovich’s soundtrack to a Kozintsev film cannot touch Die Kunst der Fuge; and the b minor Mass cannot touch Ledi Mekbet Mtsenskovo Uyezda.
 
. . . so what?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2011, 04:59:30 AM
So it's all about you.  Since you are not interested in the music in movies, it can't possibly be good.   ::)

Mostly because, James, I can't be bothered to try to engage you in musical debate - a) I'm far too tired, and b) what would be the point, I know how you'd respond - with the usual lack of reference to musical specifics and resort to nah, whatever, eye roll, pffff, etc. I could talk, at 1 a.m., after an exhausting week of music-making, start to talk about the structural innovations and influence of the Sonatas and Interludes all night, but what would be the point, your mind is made up and closed, you'll dismiss them as piffle because that's how (without ever giving musial reasons as to why) you dismiss all music in that tradition. The S+I are without doubt a key work in 20th century music, just a key work in an area you don't have any time for.

Simply QFT.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 17, 2011, 05:06:11 AM
James (T. Kirk)

(http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0710/captain-kirk-kirk-star-trek-demotivational-poster-1191571911.jpg)





Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 17, 2011, 06:31:12 AM
I just have higher standards & expectations that's all. Enjoy your McDonalds, that's fine.

That's odd, you appear to be a simple troll.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2011, 06:38:12 AM
I just have higher standards & expectations that's all.

ROFLMAO
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 17, 2011, 07:21:39 AM
Well, let me hear the music that can compare to that level boys. Otherwise it's all just blah blah blah for the sake of it.

As Luke was quoted above, this "challenge" was answered many times by many different people, and these serious suggestions were invariably ignored or dismissed without being substantially address.  Hence the inescapable conclusion, troll.
   
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2011, 07:55:06 AM
And guess what? Luke called that blah blah blah iteration. Positively prescient of him, wot?

LOL
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 17, 2011, 08:00:31 AM
Well, let me hear the music that can compare to that level boys. Otherwise it's all just blah blah blah for the sake of it.
You'd do much better to listen without comparing.  That means suspending your preconceptions.  All of them.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 17, 2011, 11:08:57 AM
That means suspending your preconceptions.  All of them.

Without those, what would he be left with? He'd vanish from the space-time continuum with a tiny pop and a little pile of Stockhausen CD's left scattered on the floor.


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2011, 11:22:08 AM
Don’t they shine purty, spinnin’ on the floor like that, though!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 17, 2011, 11:26:43 AM
I found this soundtrack extremely pleasing:

http://www.youtube.com/v/W_oYTvgPVfw
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 17, 2011, 02:40:29 PM
(http://aligorey.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/angry-child-719078.jpg?w=480)

I have higher standards, I have higher standards, I have higher standaaaaaards!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Henk on March 17, 2011, 02:42:18 PM
And it was a big failure - none of those suggestions add up to much. my standards are just a lot higher than you guys.

You listen to pretty much wrong music I find. I have admiration however for you keeping the spirit alive.

Henk
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 17, 2011, 03:20:24 PM
...my standards are just a lot higher than you guys.
Including Howard Stern in your current listening, I see. *roflol*
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 17, 2011, 03:50:52 PM
And it was a big failure - none of those suggestions add up to much. my standards are just a lot higher than you guys.

I'm afraid you've lost you ability to shock us.  Too repetitive, you've become a tedious old codger.  You'll have to work up a new bit.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 17, 2011, 07:41:35 PM
All 3rd rate shit replies as expected, on this board. Point out the music kids.

Point out the music? The music has been pointed out to you. Did you not read my post where I mentioned a few of the film scores I liked? I mean are you really that lazy where you can't go back a page or two to find the posts? Again, you're attitude isn't that of someone whose 60 years old, but more like 14.

Is it time for you to get a thicker pair of reading glasses?

(http://www.hahastop.com/pictures/Thick_Glasses.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ibanezmonster on March 17, 2011, 07:50:17 PM
I'm afraid you've lost you ability to shock us.  Too repetitive, you've become a tedious old codger.  You'll have to work up a new bit.
At first I misread "codger" as "cooger." Creepy...  :-\

btw, James is right. Only James is right, and anything who disagrees is wrong. Oh yeah, and Eric Anderson was right, too... wait... hmph. They have different musical tastes. They have different opinions. Wait... ummm.... error... error... does not compute. Circuitry overload.... error... error...

*brain explodes*
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 18, 2011, 04:09:42 AM
Dudes, we’re only offering him third-rate replies!

Let’s see some more pffff’s and blah blah blahs out there!

ROFL
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 18, 2011, 04:59:17 AM
Film music is a funny thing in how it seems to rub some people the wrong way. Personally, I love it and much of it seems to me a very logical extension of classical music in many ways, especially when we consider scores that use orchestras and play songs that could be played in the concert hall (ignoring for a moment whether they deserve to be there). But, in general, film music is indeed scored for a different purpose. It often gets absorbed in a different way for me. I'll discuss three examples dear to my heart, since people are clamoring for some.

Prokofiev - Alexander Nevsky. I love this score. I'm not sure there is much to say, as it has been mentioned before, but the music (from beginning to end) is outstanding.

Mancini - Pink Panther. I'm convinced that if Mozart were alive, he'd want to do either the Pink Panther opera OR a Variations on the theme. The song is simple, but extremely imaginitive. This music very much lives separate for the film for me. I've played it many times, and is always a favorite for saxophone players in general.

Menkin/Ashman - Beauty and the Beast. Ignoring the pop single that was made, this music is dreamy. The words and meanings are outstanding and he balane of the music with the words is excellent. This is a good one for the car too.

The question,'Are any of these better than classical music compositions,' doesn't mean much to me, since we haven't established any criteria. But do I prefer these pieces over many classical pieces and some classical composers? Absolutely. Of course, they come from a different starting place. I also love Broadway musicals and that type of music as well, and the last two pieces I chose are close to that side (one was even made into a musical). Just as I couldn't imagine going through life without classical music, I couldn't go through life without these other types of music either.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 18, 2011, 05:25:07 AM
It is perhaps hard to imagine the music used in such a context, but (as may well have been mentioned here before), Stravinsky composed the middle of the Symphony in Three Movements, originally, with the intent of fulfillling a commission for music to accompany the George Seaton film, The Song of Bernadette.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 18, 2011, 05:36:01 AM
It is perhaps hard to imagine the music used in such a context, but (as may well have been mentioned here before), Stravinsky composed the middle of the Symphony in Three Movements, originally, with the intent of fulfillling a commission for music to accompany the George Seaton film, The Song of Bernadette.
Stravinksy isn't one I usually think of with film (for me anyway), but I do love Shostakovich's scores in this area. Some absolute gems there.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 18, 2011, 06:26:33 AM
Stravinksy isn't one I usually think of with film (for me anyway), but I do love Shostakovich's scores in this area. Some absolute gems there.

Yes, and I enjoy his range there (as elsewhere): the powerful soundscapes which underscore the Kozintsev films of Shakespeare; but also the ‘lighter’ incidental work for (e.g.) Alone, The Fall of Berlin, The Unforgettable Year . . . which year was it?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Henk on March 18, 2011, 06:36:21 AM
It's not a logical extension at all as far as music-making is concerned it's truly a lesser art and a vastly compromised devolution. I don't go to see a movie to listen-to or witness  seriously artistic music-making .. i can just stay home and listen to & focus on some truly amazing stuff .. that's really real .. or perhaps go to a live concert instead, where it's all about the music.

I agree. Film music is more about sounds then music.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 18, 2011, 07:55:56 AM
it's a comedy show dope
But it does say something about your supposed high standards.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 18, 2011, 07:58:03 AM
But it does say something about your supposed high standards.

What it says is that the only thing James recognizes is shock value, in music as well as in low-brow comedy.  Refinement eludes him.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 18, 2011, 08:04:19 AM
What it says is that the only thing James recognizes is shock value, in music as well as in low-brow comedy.  Refinement eludes him.

Yes, which he practically advertises with that divertingly obtuse Gould quote about the K550.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Brewski on March 18, 2011, 09:44:12 AM
More faves:

Gato Barbieri: Last Tango in Paris (Bertolucci)
Jerry Goldsmith: Chinatown (Polanski)
Nino Rota: Amarcord (I Remember) (Fellini)
Nino Rota: Rocco e i suoi fratelli (Rocco and His Brothers) (Visconti)
Nino Rota: Il Gattopardo (The Leopard) (Visconti) - This is just gorgeous. Much of the best music is in the final ballroom scene, about 45 minutes long.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 18, 2011, 07:14:47 PM
Jerry Goldsmith: Chinatown (Polanski)

A very fine score indeed. In fact, I'm having problems locating a copy on CD. I've looked on Amazon, but it's out-of-print and the third-party sellers prices are through the roof, any suggestions Bruce? Thanks.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 19, 2011, 05:51:16 AM
It's not a logical extension at all as far as music-making is concerned

Why?

Quote
it's truly a lesser art


How so?

Quote
and a vastly compromised devolution.

How?

Quote
I don't go to see a movie to listen-to or witness  seriously artistic music-making .. i can just stay home and listen to & focus on some truly amazing stuff .. that's really real .. or perhaps go to a live concert instead, where it's all about the music.

And from earlier posts in this thread:

Quote
It really is just a byproduct of popular culture showbiz, it's not really deep musically artistic material.

Quote
I go to a movie because I buy into to the concept/premise of the story, that's why I go ... so that's what I'm primarily focused-on and interested in. So the set-up to have a mind blowing experience on purely musical grounds is a non-starter because it's not really about the music.


The clear implication of these statements is twofold: first, that you habitually confuse your personal preferences and experiences with objective, universal truths. Second, that you don't understand film as an art form. How on earth can you comment on the music involved when, by your own admission, you're not focusing on it and how it works?

You sound like someone going to a ballet for the first time, just to see the women flitting around, and then smugly insisting that "the music by that Tchaikovsky or Gorbachev or whoever was boring crap."

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 19, 2011, 12:55:37 PM
we're on a music forum, i was referring to standards with regards to music. stay focused on the topic for chrissakes.
Oh, was I digging too close to the bone? ;D But you set yourself up for that dig by including Stern (that's Howard, not Isaac) among your listening--an error that I see you have now corrected. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 19, 2011, 01:16:11 PM
Every Monday to Thursday  I'm listening to Howard.  8)
That explains a lot, actually. :o :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 19, 2011, 02:29:10 PM
:)

yea i like comedy and i like to laugh ..
 ::)
That's good, because you've given some of us a few good laughs. ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: snyprrr on March 19, 2011, 03:16:23 PM
I was thinking of this Thread whilst watching Brooklyn's Finest last night. Very spare and moody soundtrack. Anyone?


Also, I noticed I have an SQ by Donald Davis, whom I imagine is the Don Davis who scored The Matrix.


Also, saw Jaws II,... love that theme!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 19, 2011, 06:27:37 PM
Elmer Bernstein's soundtrack to "To Kill a Mockingbird" is one of my all-time favorite musical works of any genre. This is the only available version on CD, released in 1997. Bernstein recorded this with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. He wasn't happy with the original 1962 release that accompanied the film, and the 1976 version he recorded with the Royal Philharmonic had been long out of print.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514S0QA8BPL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This is the 1976 version I have. The same recording exists with another cover.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lx2IvyplL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This is the original release Bernstein was unsatisfied with because it omitted some of the material. Still a good listen, though.

(http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/46b0df5f89627e53ea966101ec8c6f3a/33963.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 19, 2011, 06:32:27 PM
I actually have some soundtrack shit stashed away in my collection too despite what I've said here; but I certainly hear it for what it is & don't have an inflated view of the stuff. .. recently I listened to Clockwork Orange (Wendy Carlos) and Naked Lunch (Ornette Coleman/Howard Shore) ..

Why would one own a film soundtrack?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on March 20, 2011, 02:44:39 AM
My favorite work from Bernstein is actually his score with the magnificent seven. Eargasmic music.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 20, 2011, 03:36:19 AM
My favorite work from Bernstein is actually his score with the magnificent seven. Eargasmic music.

That one was great, too. He composed the scores to an incredible number of films. If only more of them had done better at the box office, Bernstein's work would be even more widely known. 

FILMOGRAPHY

Saturday's Hero (1951)
Boots Malone (1952)
Sudden Fear (1952)
Battles of Chief Pontiac (1953)
Cat Women of the Moon (1953)
Dieppe Raid (1953)
Never Wave at a WAC (1953)
Robot Monster (1953)
Make Haste to Live (1954)
Miss Robin Crusoe (1954)
Silent Raiders (1954)
The Bar Sinister (1955)
The Eternal Sea (1955)
The Man with the Golden Arm (1955) -- AAN
Storm Fear (1955)
The View from Pompey's Head (1955)
The Ten Commandments (1956)
Drango (1957)
Fear Strikes Out (1957)
Men in War (1957)
The Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
The Tin Star (1957)
Anna Lucasta (1958)
The Buccaneer (1958)
Desire Under the Elms (1958)
God's Little Acre (1958)
Kings Go Forth (1958)
Saddle the Wind (1958)
Some Came Running (1958)
The Miracle (1959)
From the Terrace (1960)
The Magnificent Seven (1960) -- AAN
The Rat Race (1960)
The Story o­n Page o­ne (1960)
By Love Possessed (1960)
The Comancheros (1961)
Summer and Smoke (1961) -- AAN
The Young Doctors (1961)
Birdman of Alcatraz (1962)
A Girl Named Tamiko (1962)
To Kill a Mockingbird (1962) -- AAN, GG
Walk o­n the Wild Side (1962) -- AANs
The Caretakers (1963)
The Great Escape (1962)
Hud (1962)
Kings of the Sun (1962)
Rampage (1963)
Baby the Rain Must Fall (1964)
The Carpetbaggers (1964)
Love with the Proper Stranger (1964)
The World of Henry Orient (1964)
The Hallelujah Trail (1965)
The Reward (1965)
Seven Women (1965)
The Sons of Katie Elder (1965)
Cast a Giant Shadow (1966)
Hawaii (1966) -- AANs, GG
Return of the Seven (1966) -- AAN
The Silencers (1966)
Thoroughly Modern Millie (1967) - Academy Award Winner
The Bridge at Remagen (1968)
I Love You, Alice B. Toklas! (1968)
The Scalphunters (1968)
Guns of the Magnificent Seven (1969)
The Gypsy Moths (1969)
The Midas Run (1969)
True Grit (1969) -- AANs
Where's Jack? (1969)
Cannon for Cordoba (1970)
The Liberation of L. B. Jones (1970)
A Walk in the Spring Rain (1970)
Big Jake (1971)
Doctors' Wives (1971)
See No Evil (1971)
The Amazing Mr. Blunden (1972)
The Magnificent Seven Ride! (1972)
Cahill: United States Marshal (1973)
Deadly Honeymoon (1974)
Gold (1974) -- AANs
McQ (1974)
The Trial of Billy Jack (1974)
Mr. Quilp (1975)
A Report to the Commissioner (1975)
From Noon Till Three (1976)
The Incredible Sarah (1976)
The Shootist (1976)
Slap Shot (1977)
Animal House (1978)
Billy Jack Goes to Washington (1978)
Blood Brothers (1979)
Meatballs (1979)
Zulu Dawn (1979)
Trust Me (1980)
Airplane! (1980)
The Blues Brothers (1980)
The Great Santini (1980)
Saturn III (1980)
An American Werewolf in London (1981)
The Chosen (1981)
Going Ape! (1981)
Heavy Metal (1981)
Honky Tonk Freeway (1981)
Stripes (1981)
Five Days o­ne Summer (1982)
Genocide (1982)
Class (1983)
Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone (1983)
Trading Places (1983) -- AAN
Ghostbusters (1984)
Marie Ward - Zwischen Galgen und Glorie (1984)
Prince Jack (1984)
The Black Cauldron (1985)
Spies Like Us (1985)
Legal Eagles (1986)
Three Amigos! (1986)
Amazing Grace and Chuck (1987)
Leonard Part 6 (1987)
Da! (1988)
Funny Farm (1988)
The Good Mother (1988)
A Night in the Life of Jimmy Reardon (1988)
My Left Foot (1989)
Slipstream (1989)
The Field (1990)
The Grifters (1990)
Cape Fear (1991)
Oscar (1991)
A Rage in Harlem (1991)
Rambling Rose (1991)
The Babe (1992)
Mad Dog and Glory (1992)
The Age of Innocence (1993) -- AAN
The Cemetery Club (1993)
The Good Son (1993)
Lost in Yonkers (1993)
Devil in a Blue Dress (1995)
Frankie Starlight (1995)
Roommates (1995)
Search and Destroy (1995)
Bulletproof (1996)
Buddy (1997)
Hoodlum (1997)
The Rainmaker (1997)
Twilight (1998)
Bringing Out the Dead (1999)
The Deep End of the Ocean (1999)
Wild Wild West (1999)
Keeping the Faith (2000)
Far From Heaven (2002) -- AAN
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 20, 2011, 03:55:02 AM
That one was great, too. He composed the scores to an incredible number of films. If only more of them had done better at the box office, Bernstein's work would be even more widely known. 

Bernstein's career was nearly destroyed by the Red Hunt of the fifties when he was called before a congressional subcommittee and told to name communists he knew in the film industry. When he refused to offer any names, he was graylisted because "I wasn't important enough to be blacklisted".
  Major studios wouldn't hire him, so he ended up having to compose music for low-budget films. It wasn't until Cecil B. De Mille asked him to do for Egyptian music what Puccini did for Japanese music with "Madame Butterfly" that the ban was broken, and Bernstein was hired to score "The Ten Commandments".

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 20, 2011, 04:15:40 AM
Ephemera, see ..

To you, perhaps, but thank you for deeming the list worthy to quote in its entirety and for continually returning here to what appears to have become your favorite thread.   ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 20, 2011, 05:14:43 AM
Ephemera, see ..

If ignorance is bliss, you must be rolling on the floor in ecstasy  ;D A number of those films are widely hailed as classics, still viewed and heard today:

The Ten Commandments
The Magnificent Seven
To Kill a Mockingbird
The Great Escape
True Grit
etc.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 20, 2011, 05:46:30 AM
I was talking about the music, wake up please.

The scores are parts of those films. The films were popular when released, are still aired on TV today, available on DVD/Blu-Ray today, studied today, soundtrack recordings available for separate listening on CD today, scores available today. Ergo, by definition not ephemeral, but lasting.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 20, 2011, 06:36:17 AM
Ladies and gentlemen just remember one thing when dealing with James: he's RIGHT and you are WRONG. There is no middle ground. There are no compromises. There is only his high and mighty opinion and that is all.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 20, 2011, 06:43:21 AM
Ladies and gentlemen just remember one thing when dealing with James: he's RIGHT and you are WRONG. There is no middle ground. There are no compromises. There is only his high and mighty opinion and that is all.

And since his opinions are posted here on this short-lived forum that will eventually dissolve into cyber oblivion, they are irrelevant and inconsequential as compared to those of the great writers and thinkers of today, and not only do I disagree with them, I choose not to even consider them as worthy of my attention. My standards are set much higher.   ;D    :P    >:D    0:)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Brewski on March 20, 2011, 10:30:39 AM
A very fine score indeed. In fact, I'm having problems locating a copy on CD. I've looked on Amazon, but it's out-of-print and the third-party sellers prices are through the roof, any suggestions Bruce? Thanks.

Alas, this is one case in which there doesn't seem to be much recourse (at the moment) other than striking it lucky on eBay. (I have an "eBay alert" that lets me know when copies are on sale, but at the moment, I don't have any interest in paying $200+.) The other avenue might be to inquire in any of the various music-sharing groups out there.

You'd think that with the high demand for this score, that the recording would be re-released, but the rights are probably tied up in litigation somewhere.  ::)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 20, 2011, 05:18:06 PM
\You'd think that with the high demand for this score, that the recording would be re-released, but the rights are probably tied up in litigation somewhere.  ::)

--Bruce

Wow, he wasn't kidding about those prices. Amazon has only one available new for $255.90 and 15 used ranging from $64.99 to $183.91!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 20, 2011, 06:40:57 PM
High demand from whom?  ::)

To those with high brows and low voices.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 20, 2011, 07:42:03 PM
To those with high brows and low voices.
Nice comeback! :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on March 20, 2011, 08:34:04 PM
Robot Monster! I remember praising this music in a review elsewhere, but I got the name wrong. No, Leonard Bernstein did not write Robot Monster. Actually, neither did Elmer, I'm guessing. The score was probably assembled from library copies of previous scores, as was common for low budget films at the time.

The film itself has been called one of the worst of all time. Certainly the title creature is laughable (just do a quick Google for it), but the film is not the most boring or annoying I've seen, and the plot is quite interesting in an extended-episode-of-Twilight-Zone kind of way.

I listened to the Naxos issue of The Sea Hawk over the weekend. It was exciting at first, but really there's little need to hear all one hour and forty-five minutes of it. It does get very repetitive, theme-wise. There should be an easy compromise between Gerhardt's 8 minute suite and the full score. If it was edited, it would certainly be the equal of any late Romantic ballet score.

Which raises the question - have many film scores been turned into ballets? Imagine the ballet of Herrmann's Vertigo. That would be something.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on March 21, 2011, 02:08:16 AM
Which raises the question - have many film scores been turned into ballets?.

Vice versa with Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 21, 2011, 02:08:58 AM

Which raises the question - have many film scores been turned into ballets? Imagine the ballet of Herrmann's Vertigo. That would be something.

dizzy dancers ...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 21, 2011, 04:43:41 AM
You are confused, we're talking about the music tho. 

It's telling that whenever someone points out the fallacy of your statements or asks you to provide evidence for your assertions, you say he or she is confused...

Quote
You're referring to irrelevant merchandising, that's all that is. Doesn't mean anything in true musical terms. And for it to be

Simple statement of fact: the music is still heard today, therefore it's not ephemeral. Whatever you personally think of the music is irrelevant to that fact. And if true musical terms are what float your boat, please show us in concrete musical terms why the scores to the films I mentioned fail, using detailed analyses of form, melody, harmony, rhythm, and instrumentation. (Hint: you'll have to actually listen to the music to get started!)

The "irrelevant merchandising" you speak of is not irrelevant and not "merchandising" in the usual sense of making an extra buck off branded items like Luke Skywalker action figures. Why is it not irrelevant? Because we're referring to the very fact that the films and their scores have been preserved and made available to the public in common media formats. That's like condemning Messiaen for having La Transfiguration published by Editions Alphonse Leduc and the music recorded by DG on CD. Darn those "real guys" with their venal marketing! Next they'll have a Shostakovich Snuggie at Wal-Mart.

Quote
taken seriously as truly high musical art it should be able to stand on it's own in a major way as music. But it does not ..

There you go again (and again and again), using undefined terms and confusing fact and opinion. Because you don't take it seriously as "truly high musical art" (whatever that is) says nothing at all about the music but rather the limitations of your approach to it. And why on earth should film music have to stand on its own? That's not what it was designed for, where original scores are concerned. Would you judge Ligeti's Lontano as hip-hop dance music?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 21, 2011, 11:32:38 AM
Next they'll have a Shostakovich Snuggie at Wal-Mart.

Where do I go to one of those? :P ;)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 04:53:44 PM
Grazioso,

You are sooo confused because you simply can't hear or understand the differences! And that the film stuff is truly not about the music for starts. The Partridge Family & Air Supply are still seen/heard today .. you have no clue bro. I've already explained myself numerous times in the simplest most straight forward manor and you refuse to THINK. You say some major confused bullshit  .. and really misunderstand what I said earlier. Just because a film (or TV show) is re-run or the company puts out a DVD, a CD, a score, a book etc means nothing about the quality and depth of the music making. You know, that exact kinda meaningless merch. exists for a lot of shit out there, merely floating out and about in the effluent .... Think now. The fact that you're on this very board, where 'real' concrete artistic stuff is discussed ad nausuem and yet still need evidence about what I'm referring to is a joke.  You don't even know what things mean to begin with, you need everything 'defined' for you; there is no point even talking at all because you don't even have a basic understanding of things in general it seems. For any music to have legs & carry any weight it's got to stand on it's own for one, otherwise it's not really about the music then is it ..

Man, you're such a waste. Don't you ever just get bored with yourself?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on March 21, 2011, 06:09:32 PM
.. you have no clue bro. ... You say some major confused bullshit  ..
No way this guy is 60 years old! More like 16.

there is no point even talking at all 
And yet you just won't sod off.

Come back in a couple of decades, after you've figured out that music is music, and it's all valid for consideration, regardless of what genre it originates in. In the meantime, stop bothering the grown-ups, like a good boy, okay?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 06:10:19 PM
Right back at you.

Really? Rubber-Glue? I think you might have been on this forum too long.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 06:24:22 PM
Neither of you dopes add shit tho, you just jump in like fleas.

Not a very apt metaphor.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Scarpia on March 21, 2011, 06:44:42 PM
Neither of you dopes add shit tho, you just jump in like fleas.

For a person who claims to have elevated taste, your posts have a paradoxical resemblance to conversation overheard at a middle school lunch table...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 07:01:44 PM
Oh very apt, that's exactly what you are.

I'll have to disagree, but perhaps you're not astute enough to pick up on the obviousness of your flaw.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 07:04:03 PM
Says the dope who adds nothing the conversation.

Whatever, flea. Go away.

You've somehow fallen behind or perhaps it's simply a redundancy pattern. I know the simple tend to fall into those type of ruts.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
What do you do all day, I wonder.

Wonder no more, my child: school and volunteering.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 07:10:43 PM
I feel sorry for those kids.

My son, I don't work with children.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 07:13:19 PM
Even worse.

My dearest progeny, you're just too cute.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 07:20:34 PM
Do you talk to people like this in the real world?

Only to the precious.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 21, 2011, 07:27:26 PM
Right .. considering you are a student and you volunteer i truly doubt you know much about the real world.
I probably make more than you in a few hours than you do all month and i'm retired lol

I know a little, but I've freely admitted that elsewhere, and I have no doubt that you make more money than I, although I don't really see why you mentioned that.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: westknife on March 21, 2011, 07:43:21 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/watchdrama8jm.gif)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 21, 2011, 08:33:15 PM
At the rate dumb and dumber are going, this thread will be locked in no time. I'm just curious what's taking the mods so long anyway?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 21, 2011, 08:38:18 PM
Grazioso,

You are sooo confused because you simply can't hear or understand the differences! And that the film stuff is truly not about the music for starts. The Partridge Family & Air Supply are still seen/heard today .. you have no clue bro. I've already explained myself numerous times in the simplest most straight forward manor and you refuse to THINK. You say some major confused bullshit  .. and really misunderstand what I said earlier. Just because a film (or TV show) is re-run or the company puts out a DVD, a CD, a score, a book etc means nothing about the quality and depth of the music making. You know, that exact kinda meaningless merch. exists for a lot of shit out there, merely floating out and about in the effluent .... Think now. The fact that you're on this very board, where 'real' concrete artistic stuff is discussed ad nausuem and yet still need evidence about what I'm referring to is a joke.  You don't even know what things mean to begin with, you need everything 'defined' for you; there is no point even talking at all because you don't even have a basic understanding of things in general it seems. For any music to have legs & carry any weight it's got to stand on it's own for one, otherwise it's not really about the music then is it ..
James, here's something you've missed, in simple words: None of us are claiming that film music is equal to concert music!  What we're saying is that, first, it can be enjoyable and sometimes even moving; second, that you can't compare its character and purpose with that of any other music; and finally, that it is proving to be not just "ephemera" but an enduring and valuable musical format, just as opera or "musicals" are. 

I hope that's simple enough for you, because it's my last comment on the subject.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 21, 2011, 08:45:00 PM
James, here's something you've missed, in simple words: None of us are claiming that film music is equal to concert music!  What we're saying is that, first, it can be enjoyable and sometimes even moving; second, that you can't compare its character and purpose with that of any other music; and finally, that it is proving to be not just "ephemera" but an enduring and valuable musical format, just as opera or "musicals" are. 

I hope that's simple enough for you, because it's my last comment on the subject.

You're only feeding the troll at this juncture. He does not care what other people think. His opinion is the only one that is valid.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 21, 2011, 08:47:51 PM
You're only feeding the troll at this juncture. He does not care what other people think. His opinion is the only one that is valid.
You're probably right.  But I'm not writing for the troll.  I'm writing for innocent readers who may have gotten this far and still be confused by his trollery. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 21, 2011, 08:50:25 PM
You're probably right.  But I'm not writing for the troll.  I'm writing for innocent readers who may have gotten this far and still be confused by his trollery. :)

I couldn't imagine what a newcomer to the forum would think of these last few pages of this thread. I'm sure they'll have many ??? moments.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 22, 2011, 05:16:05 AM
Grazioso,

You are sooo confused because you simply can't hear or understand the differences!

Sigh. Obviously, I ask the questions not because of any confusion or doubts on my part, but rather to see if you can actually back your derogatory assertions. So far, no.

Quote
And that the film stuff is truly not about the music for starts.

"The film stuff"? Interesting pejorative generalization. I still contend that you don't display any sympathy for film as art, or else you wouldn't sloppily lump it and its music together like that.

Quote
Just because a film (or TV show) is re-run or the company puts out a DVD, a CD, a score, a book etc means nothing about the quality and depth of the music making.

Of course. But recall that you were the one who trolled the thread by popping in to slag Bernstein's scores as "his cheap forgettable film ephemera". I showed that a number of his film scores are not ephemeral but still heard and enjoyed today--the very fact that people were posting about them should have shown you that.

You can talk about quality and depth and higher standards until you're blue in the face, but that literally says nothing about the music until you actually provide evidence and analysis, which you never do. When someone says "It's obvious," I hear "I don't know what I'm talking about."
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 22, 2011, 11:07:26 AM
You can talk about quality and depth and higher standards until you're blue in the face, but that literally says nothing about the music until you actually provide evidence and analysis, which you never do.

This is well-written and so well argued that all I can do is just smile and nod along. The interesting thing about all of this is James doesn't even have an argument. He just continues to state the same things over and over again. He's not 60 years old, I'll tell you that, not with his immature attitude.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 22, 2011, 11:54:28 AM
James is not 60 years old.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 22, 2011, 11:56:34 AM
He could be about Howard Sterns's age, though.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 22, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
He could be about Howard Sterns's age, though.

I seriously doubt it, because his posting style with the constant repetition and unwillingness to prove his point, sounds like someone in their late teens/early 20s.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on March 22, 2011, 01:47:15 PM
Go to your local library. Better yet, listen more actively to the music and think & reflect about what you're taking in. That should help you.
*sigh* I know, I said I had made my last comment on the subject, but this demands a response from a performing musician.  I have actually played suites from many film scores, including The Sound of Music, West Side Story, Star Wars, Titanic, Lord of the Rings, and Harry Potter.  Of those, my favorite is West Side Story--exciting and deeply moving.  I can do without Sound of Music and Lord of the Rings, but the Star Wars and Harry Potter music is surprisingly challenging and rewarding to play.

Note once again that I have NOT claimed that these scores are in any way equal to, say, the Beethoven and Mahler symphonies; only that they are fun and surprisingly gratifying both to play and to listen to--and in no way worthy of the scorn heaped on them by James and company. :) And if James and co. think I can simply play something without actively listening to it, they should play with an orchestra or band sometime!  There's no better way (except maybe conducting) to get familiar with a piece of music.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 25, 2011, 09:25:20 AM
I seriously doubt it, because his posting style with the constant repetition and unwillingness to prove his point, sounds like someone in their late teens/early 20s.

A previous poster, Iago, posted in a very same style, and was well over 60.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: smitty1931 on March 27, 2011, 12:53:02 PM
Erich Korngold. His scores for the Warner Bros films of the 30s are masterful. I recently saw Kings Row on tcm and  his score is hauntingly beautiful.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on March 29, 2011, 06:19:39 PM
You definitely need to get laid, get a job and get a life. What do you do all day, i wonder.

Ruts?  Repetitive patterns?  Not possible.   The delicate shadings and calculated nuance in each post  are always treasures to be savored. Those of you who have been disparaging postings such as this are missing out on a tremendous creative flowering that rivals that of Shakespeare or Joyce.  What we have here is the linguistic equivalent of the Well Tempered Clavier to anyone who has the high standards to appreciate it.

It is a great tragedy that true artists do not get sufficient recognition in their lifetimes. 


On the Getting Laid Theme:

Do us all a favour? Get a woman and get laid.

Dude, I've been reading your comments lately ... do you ever get laid?


The Get a Grip  theme is will represented in the repertoire:



Whoaa careful with that loose talk, get a grip please.

get a grip.

er..right. get a grip.

Get a grip please.



As well as the development of the get a clue or cluelessness theme:



Pfff ... so utterly clueless and deaf.

You're so clueless. Stop acting like you're an authority or that you have any sort-of insight on this stuff. You know nothing about it at all, anyone can see that.


sorry you dont make much sense, and it doesnt apply at all. same goes for the shit floating in this thread that i addressed a few posts up. it's the sort-of of cluelessness not even worth wasting the time on actually, if it weren't for the finger exercise.  :)

Quote from: James
pff you really haven't got much a clue as your longwinded scribbles indicate in spades. nobody is awaiting your judgement, nobody cares....  We don't need your assessment of this, you're way late with it anyhow  (gee, you're sooo behind). Have you ever heard the expression, the emptiest vessel makes the most noise?  Pretty much sums you up here. (and that other ignoramus trolling for responses on things he has no idea about, either).

What a moronic statement.
You have no clue whatsoever. Ditto your brain-fart about Coltrane.

the cluelessness is pretty much self evident from the get-go. Sorry bud.

Quote from: James
wha? troll? .  Whoopie Shit! Like that's going to matter or change anything we're talking about here. Again, get a clue.

All you're saying is nothing, just a bunch of blah...you haven't got the slightest clue.



The Pffft Theme was commented upon before, and I'm happy to say that is has been brilliant developed over the years:

pffff whatever....

pffff whatever....

pfff hardly...

Quote
Beethoven ? pfff....the epitome of DRAMA-QUEEN

Pfff ... so utterly clueless and deaf.

pffff

Not necessarily? Pffffff

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffff whatever...

Pff.. you haven't even heard the piece at all.

pff no, a figment of your imagination im afraid.

pfff whatever...
Evidence? Pfff Hardly ..


Not as  common, but equally welcome  is the brain fart theme, where the contrapunctual invention really shines forth.

It was a major brain fart on your part tho,

Quote from: James
yea your brain is farting big time,

Don't get condescending & alerting me of your upcoming Brain fart ...I don't need it, everything you say is pretty off....., I was just pointing out a major flaw in your logic, those 2 are miminal (more so) than the ones you kept off of your (silly)  list...




One of the most delightful strengths in this body of work is the creative and insightful ways the author lets us know when we are wrong.


whats wrong with you?

you've been proven wrongheaded and wrong every step of the way) and on top of this being condescending toward the facts, just failing to just face reality

This is where you are so wrong in your thinking

You're wrong.

you're 100% wrong though.

nah .. you got it all wrong;

And you and they would be very wrong of course;
  --I'm proud to say that I earned this one! --

As a note, the "you're way off" or "you're off base" theme is just a richly represented in the canon, as well as the perennially popular "you're stupid" theme, which never looses it's freshness or appeal.




My favorite, however, is the Maledicta, or ritualized artifacts of verbal aggression,  as this is where we witness internet artistry at its most sublime and transcendental:



Figures, typical response from someone who has been nothing more than just 'background noise' here.

not dismissing anything you meathead,

thanks nut-job, i've read your example

...still wasting time on that retard? HOLY SMOKES!

right, it's awfully hard to get through to a delusional person, i should have known better.



I don't think so... I think you're full of crap.

Quote from: James
I wouldn't even pay any attention what he has to say on that work either, as it's just going to be something similar to a highschool girl gushing... as if his posts don't prove this already lol

What a moronic statement, but coming from you it's not surprising tho.

I don't consider you discerning or well-informed at all, the proof in your comments here and abroad. Keep pretendin'


Oh yes there definitely is musicmaking, you just have a puny brain & no ears, and because of these obvious limitations don't get upset and talk shit about something you know absolutely nothing about.

You're completely full of crap basically, and never have anything to offer other than a quote or a link etc. from SOMEONE ELSE. You haven't the first clue of what it even means or is-like to be an artist, play an instrument etc and to be on a highly disciplined path, because if you did you wouldn't waste so much time
trolling and spewing the garbage you do. Except it's not 'you', it's just some more stuff you read elsewhere that's never your own. 'you' offer truly nothing once again and have no clue. just empty derived rhetoric that you paste. please, find yourself.

Quote from: James
You don't know anything, it's so transparent that all of what you think you know is based on what you read. It's not based on any sort of real listening experience & time of your own,
that's for sure. Hence the lack of any intelligence or insight found in your posts, which are merely copy & pasted from what you read elsewhere (usually derived from bad journalism) onto this forum,
in order to troll for responses. You're out of your depth, and are really in no position to make statements
that carry any weight on the subject.

I think you are just frustrated and upset

Quote from: James
.
nobody is awaiting your judgement, nobody cares....

yeah, well whatever lightweight.

Yea but no one cares <name witheld> ...

No one cares quite frankly ... you're blathering on & on, so wordy & self-important.


You don't have a thought of your own in that empty head of yours.



and of course, my favorite single quote of ALL TIME....

I can do without the immature personal attacks


There are many more rich themes that I have not had time to delineate in this post,
there are scatalogical themes, 
the "shut up" theme,
the "I'm not a kid" theme,
the "lol" theme,
the "wake up" theme,
the "you're not qualified" theme,
 the "lighten up, I'm only kidding" theme,
 the "adjust your ears" theme, 
the "off base (or way off)" theme,
 the "I don't care what you think" theme,
the "get educated" theme,
the "stop reading books and just listen to the music theme",
the "musical ignoramus" theme,

 -- the diversity is endless!  It is truly the fathomless cornucopia of wisdom and insight, for those who have high enough standards, and have studied enough, but still don't read too many books.


Those of you who are seeing repetition in these glistening works of highly stylized art  are missing the point, and not seeing the careful gradations in these carefully reasoned posts.  Each one is a crystalline confection to savor, and appreciate in its own sparkling place on the internet firmament.  Together, the strands weave a luminous narrative arc and form a rich tapestry encompassing the entire human condition.  It doesn't get any better than this.


However, in closing, I guess I should get should be a bit self-referential and provide some examples from the "quotes theme", which  is one I've had the honor of earning on occasion, and, who knows, maybe I'll get more?  I may only dream of being so honored...

Oh no .. here come *the quotes* .. lol

you can collect all the quotes you want





Editor's note: SOme of these quotes came from locked threads, were it was not as directly possible to get the time and message link.  My apologies for where my lack of scholarship did not do justice to the material.





Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: CD on March 29, 2011, 07:03:23 PM
Ruts?  Repetitive patterns?  Not possible.   The delicate shadings and calculated nuance in each post  are always treasures to be savored. Those of you who have been disparaging postings such as this are missing out on a tremendous creative flowering that rivals that of Shakespeare or Joyce.  What we have here is the linguistic equivalent of the Well Tempered Clavier to anyone who has the high standards to appreciate it.

It is a great tragedy that true artists do not get sufficient recognition in their lifetimes. 

I ignored James a long time ago.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 29, 2011, 08:53:04 PM
I ignored James a long time ago.

James is rad.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on March 29, 2011, 08:56:01 PM
James is rad.

While you're just bad.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: CD on March 30, 2011, 02:14:12 AM
James is rad.

contrarian! ^_^
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 30, 2011, 02:41:29 AM
Editor's note: SOme of these quotes came from locked threads, were it was not as directly possible to get the time and message link.  My apologies for where my lack of scholarship did not do justice to the material.

But this is genius: The Essential James.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 30, 2011, 05:24:46 AM
Editor's note: SOme of these quotes came from locked threads, were it was not as directly possible to get the time and message link.  My apologies for where my lack of scholarship did not do justice to the material.

Pff dusty old quotes  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on March 30, 2011, 05:29:58 AM
But this is genius: The Essential James.

Don't get the Penguin edition, get the Oxford World's Classics volume: a foreword by James himself, plus excellent notes.1

1 pfff



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: petrarch on March 30, 2011, 06:47:08 AM
But this is genius: The Essential James.

Indeed, brilliant! :D

Who's going to add it to the most informative posts thread?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on March 30, 2011, 09:26:17 AM
Indeed, brilliant! :D

Who's going to add it to the most informative posts thread?

I admit, the thought did cross my mind.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on March 30, 2011, 01:00:42 PM
I rest my case, this proves that you need to get a life, seriously .. how long did it take you to assemble all that. Sheesh, the Ls on this board ..

Thank you sir, may I have another?  :D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on March 30, 2011, 01:15:57 PM
But this is genius: The Essential James.

Unfortunately, with another  "Get a Life" , that reference work is already out of date.... Pfffft!  Pffft!

Guess I'll need some of these.

(http://images.main.uab.edu/imedpub/Kleenex.jpg)


I'll need to put down those books, have a brain fart, adjust my ears, go further off base,  be totally wrong, become less worthy of expressing an opinion, rid myself of any clues that may be in my possession and crank up the quote machine again.  LOL.  Pfft!

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on March 30, 2011, 05:01:54 PM
Jowcol, thanks for that wonderful post! It may indeed belong in Henk's thread.

All together now! Pfffffffffffffffffffff...

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: CD on March 30, 2011, 05:08:44 PM
pianofortissimoissimoissimoissimoissimoissimo...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on March 30, 2011, 05:10:29 PM
Jowcol, thanks for that wonderful post! It may indeed belong in Henk's thread.

All together now! Pfffffffffffffffffffff...

(http://jessicasieghart.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/pfft.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Philoctetes on March 31, 2011, 03:06:21 PM
contrarian! ^_^

Naw, I like his style. Anyone that committed measures as rad in my book.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2011, 08:04:02 AM
I've finally pull the trigger on some of Morricone's scores:









I've heard them in the actual movies, but not as standalone scores. I can't wait to hear them.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2011, 08:34:41 AM
I think it's pretty sad that our resident music lover, James, can't find any ounce of creativity in film music. As I stated in an earlier post, there is a wide variety in film music. Some of it is terrible, cliched, but a lot of it is imaginative, lyrically beautiful, and downright exciting. There's good and bad music in all genres, but to dismiss an entire genre is completely ignorant.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on April 24, 2011, 09:32:31 AM
I think it's pretty sad that our resident music lover

I think we're all resident music lovers here :) Some of us are just more prone to listen, learn, and enjoy versus passing judgment, denigrating, and dismissing.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on April 24, 2011, 10:33:15 AM
I think it's pretty sad that our resident music lover, James, can't find any ounce of creativity in film music. As I stated in an earlier post, there is a wide variety in film music. Some of it is terrible, cliched, but a lot of it is imaginative, lyrically beautiful, and downright exciting. There's good and bad music in all genres, but to dismiss an entire genre is completely ignorant.

FWIW--  I may be stepping out of character here, but   James has every right to express his opinion, and I don't see it as any more or less valid that the other opinions posted on this forum.  Eventually, we need to make our own decisions of which art is worthy to spend our time and $$ which, James points out, is in a limited supply.  If I seemed critical (or satirical) in an earlier post in this thread, it had nothing to do with his right to have, maintain, and defend his opinions, since I think that is a right we all should have here.    I was just questioning the way and language in which we address our differences.   MI, I tend to side with you on this issue, but I wouldn't categorize anyone who doesn't as ignorant.   I've not made any attempt to get Rap into my life-- or Doo Wop music-- does this make me ignorant?

I would also say that we all have our "blind spots" in which we tend to dismiss and denigrate anything without attempted to reevaluate it further, and I don't think we should be singling out any member of this forum for that, since we'd all be guilty soon enough.

Okay-- back into character. 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2011, 11:30:45 AM
You aren't going to miss much by avoiding the barren waste land that is film, life is just too short .. believe it, you'd best be putting your money, time & energy elsewhere if it's truly great musical art you're looking for.

There are only a few film composers that I enjoy. I think your constant need to degrade something that you don't enjoy tells us more about you than it does the actual music itself. I'm so thankful that the world isn't full of people like you, because if it was, I would be finding me an island somewhere where I could be alone.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on April 24, 2011, 12:15:47 PM
Don't go assuming too much jowol ,, i have in fact evaluated & compared film stuff thoroughly in order arrive at my informed conclusion.

Ahh, a thousand pardons.  I forgot the precept about assumptions. 

you're out of your depth, uninformed .. & never make assumptions ..

I will study the texts more thoroughly, that I may be able to discern the difference between an "informed conclusion" and an "opinion" which to date has not been apparent... 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on April 24, 2011, 02:47:30 PM
Don't go assuming too much jowol ,, i have in fact evaluated & compared film stuff thoroughly in order arrive at my informed conclusion.
In that case, let me ask you a simple question: Name five film composers and rank them from "most trashy" to "least trashy."  You can do this on a new thread as a poll if you want, since you like polls. :) (Of course, you may want to prepare yourself for some surprising poll results! ;D)  I'd like to see the evidence that you know what you're trashing. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2011, 02:52:16 PM
In that case, let me ask you a simple question: Name five film composers and rank them from "most trashy" to "least trashy."  You can do this on a new thread as a poll if you want, since you like polls. :) (Of course, you may want to prepare yourself for some surprising poll results! ;D)  I'd like to see the evidence that you know what you're trashing. :)

Yes, I agree. If James is insistent on "trashing" film composers as you say, then a poll would definitely be in order I think. I'm just curious what film scores James has actually heard?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on April 25, 2011, 01:16:08 AM
Yes, I agree. If James is insistent on "trashing" film composers as you say, then a poll would definitely be in order I think. I'm just curious what film scores James has actually heard?

We have his assurance that a complete and thorough analysis was done.

Don't go assuming too much jowol ,, i have in fact evaluated & compared film stuff thoroughly in order arrive at my informed conclusion.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on April 25, 2011, 03:39:28 AM
We have his assurance that a complete and thorough analysis was done.

Verily, I say unto you, thou shalt not question the Arbiter of All Things! I've asked before and will ask again: let's have some specific musical examples that show how film music isn't "deep".
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on April 25, 2011, 04:02:09 AM
I probably would not listen to it on its own, but Peter Gabriel's soundtrack to Rabbit-Proof Fence served very bicely to underscore the movie.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on April 25, 2011, 04:10:04 AM
Erm, nicely.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on April 25, 2011, 04:20:00 AM
Verily, I say unto you, thou shalt not question the Arbiter of All Things! I've asked before and will ask again: let's have some specific musical examples that show how film music isn't "deep".

 One example-- whoever wrote the soundtrack for Santa Claus Conquers the Martians...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: karlhenning on April 25, 2011, 06:03:45 AM
One example-- whoever wrote the soundtrack for Santa Claus Conquers the Martians...

I've sometimes wondered what Santa does the rest of the year . . . good to see him keeping his hand in.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2011, 07:59:53 AM
Approaching things like this is totally daft. You can perform analysis on anything .. and it's not a matter of 'providing evidence' either. Sad how you guys just don't understand that, you think it's something that can be proved in 'objective' terms. It's actually so much easier than that. If you can't understand the fundamental differences by merely listening (that's all it takes) to say Bach, Wagner, Debussy or Bartók to name just a few names/reasons that the legacy is actually sustained & built on  ... () and the essentially narrow & confined pastiche that film produces than that's just sad. I know what I'd rather delve into, wouldn't even have to think about it, hearing a few bars of each is all you need to make that determination as well. And it's very easy to state that true musical depth in the world of film is a non-starter. Otherwise name film music that approaches the depths of The Well-Tempered Clavier Books, St. Matthew's Passion, Tristan und Isolde, Parsifal, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, The Rite of Spring, Béla Bartók's 6 String Quartets etc etc ...

It's sad how you cannot simply oblige us in providing some example of your analysis. What film scores have you listened to in depth?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on April 25, 2011, 08:51:01 AM
life is just too short .. believe it, you'd best be putting your money, time & energy elsewhere if it's truly great musical art you're looking for.

Vita brevis, indeed, which is why my primary concern with music is enjoying it and learning about it, not trying to seek out or define "greatness" or "depth." Music is not science, philosophy, or religion.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on April 25, 2011, 10:38:17 AM
...Otherwise name film music that approaches the depths of The Well-Tempered Clavier Books, St. Matthew's Passion, Tristan und Isolde, Parsifal, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, The Rite of Spring, Béla Bartók's 6 String Quartets etc etc ...
We asked you first. ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on April 26, 2011, 06:30:46 PM
On another topic concerning film music, I found this article concerning the recording of the King Kong soundtrack (Part 3 of the article), which is my top pick as well as a landmark/watershed recording:

(http://michaelpratt.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/king-kong-orchestra.jpg?w=500&h=370)

http://michaelpratt.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/the-film-music-of-max-steiner-with-emphasis-on-king-kong-1933-and-gone-with-the-wind-1939/

The actual photo from the recording session is priceless and the article reads nicely.  Enjoy!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 26, 2011, 06:54:35 PM
Hey Bogey, what do you think about Ennio Morricone?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on April 27, 2011, 12:06:06 AM
Oddly, I don't care for the King Kong score, however influential it may have been. Last time I listened to it, I found its primitivism simplistic and boring. OTOH, I absolutely love Gone with the Wind. It really matches R Strauss at his own game, plus enlivens the traditional American songs in such way that any subsequent attempt at them risks being seen as an imitation.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on April 27, 2011, 07:23:32 AM
On another topic concerning film music, I found this article concerning the recording of the King Kong soundtrack (Part 3 of the article), which is my top pick as well as a landmark/watershed recording:

(http://michaelpratt.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/king-kong-orchestra.jpg?w=500&h=370)

http://michaelpratt.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/the-film-music-of-max-steiner-with-emphasis-on-king-kong-1933-and-gone-with-the-wind-1939/

The actual photo from the recording session is priceless and the article reads nicely.  Enjoy!
A priceless picture indeed!  It gives some idea of the working conditions for those musicians, as well as their numbers.  That recording chamber is almost as cramped as an orchestra pit! :o

And those orchestras could play!  Take it from me, an orchestra player myself: those men and women might well have been playing in any of the major orchestras of the time; they had the technique, the tone and the heart. 8) Example: in Fantasia's original soundtrack, all but one of the tracks were actually played by the Philadelphia Orchestra, then one of the greatest in the world.  The exception is the track for The Sorcerer's Apprentice, which was played (as I recall) by the Disney house orchestra.  How many people can tell the difference?  :o And how about those players who played for Carl Stallings at Warner Brothers? :D

Also, I'd venture to guess that most of the time, they didn't get any chance to rehearse; they were probably sight-reading on those historic soundtracks. :D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on April 27, 2011, 06:26:53 PM
Hey Bogey, what do you think about Ennio Morricone?

Do not have much....however, not from the lack of respect, but just have not traveled down his road much.  Suggestions outside of the westerns  and The Untouchables (GREAT SCORE!!!!) welcomed.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on April 27, 2011, 06:29:54 PM
Oddly, I don't care for the King Kong score, however influential it may have been. Last time I listened to it, I found its primitivism simplistic and boring. OTOH, I absolutely love Gone with the Wind. It really matches R Strauss at his own game, plus enlivens the traditional American songs in such way that any subsequent attempt at them risks being seen as an imitation.

Fair comment.  At least you do not like the Kong score because many film music geeks, like myself, think you should.  Your opinion is actually refreshing, though it still tops my list. :)
A priceless picture indeed!  It gives some idea of the working conditions for those musicians, as well as their numbers.  That recording chamber is almost as cramped as an orchestra pit! :o

And those orchestras could play!  Take it from me, an orchestra player myself: those men and women might well have been playing in any of the major orchestras of the time; they had the technique, the tone and the heart. 8) Example: in Fantasia's original soundtrack, all but one of the tracks were actually played by the Philadelphia Orchestra, then one of the greatest in the world.  The exception is the track for The Sorcerer's Apprentice, which was played (as I recall) by the Disney house orchestra.  How many people can tell the difference?  :o And how about those players who played for Carl Stallings at Warner Brothers? :D

Also, I'd venture to guess that most of the time, they didn't get any chance to rehearse; they were probably sight-reading on those historic soundtracks. :D

Great post!  Always enjoy catching up with a fellow Coloradan! 8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 27, 2011, 07:44:46 PM
Do not have much....however, not from the lack of respect, but just have not traveled down his road much.  Suggestions outside of the westerns  and The Untouchables (GREAT SCORE!!!!) welcomed.

Have you heard Once Upon A Time In America or The Mission? These are two wonderful scores that I think you would enjoy. I'm still trying to track down Jerry Goldsmith's Chinatown score on CD. It's out-of-print and insanely expensive. That Love Theme never fails but to melt my heart.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on April 29, 2011, 07:37:25 PM
Have you heard Once Upon A Time In America or The Mission? These are two wonderful scores that I think you would enjoy. I'm still trying to track down Jerry Goldsmith's Chinatown score on CD. It's out-of-print and insanely expensive. That Love Theme never fails but to melt my heart.

I have heard nothing but good things about both those scores....will keep an eye out for them. 

As far as China Town even a vinyl version is not cheap.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on April 30, 2011, 01:17:00 PM
I'm somewhat partial to Goldsmith's Logan's Run score; it's got some nice electronica in it too. 8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Lethevich on May 07, 2011, 02:13:48 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hxn6U8SBL._AA300_.jpg)

This long-awaited re-recording is definitely worth it to fans. The production is 10x better - it sounds like orchestral music rather than the shrill, highlighted, spotlighted, flat, zero ambience tendencies of the original. I've read some complaints about this lack of soloist spotlighting, but I don't want something that sounds identical to the original, that would be pointless. The sense of space is great, although the different tempos and balances to the original will take some getting used to.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 08, 2011, 02:37:43 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hxn6U8SBL._AA300_.jpg)

This long-awaited re-recording is definitely worth it to fans. The production is 10x better - it sounds like orchestral music rather than the shrill, highlighted, spotlighted, flat, zero ambience tendencies of the original. I've read some complaints about this lack of soloist spotlighting, but I don't want something that sounds identical to the original, that would be pointless. The sense of space is great, although the different tempos and balances to the original will take some getting used to.

That may make me stay clear, but then again..... ;D.  Thanks for the full review!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Drasko on May 08, 2011, 03:20:16 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hxn6U8SBL._AA300_.jpg)

This long-awaited re-recording is definitely worth it to fans. The production is 10x better - it sounds like orchestral music rather than the shrill, highlighted, spotlighted, flat, zero ambience tendencies of the original. I've read some complaints about this lack of soloist spotlighting, but I don't want something that sounds identical to the original, that would be pointless. The sense of space is great, although the different tempos and balances to the original will take some getting used to.

I'll have to get that. Thanks for heads up. To supplement the paint peeling Milan original (never got used to extended Varese version) Clip sounds good:

http://www.youtube.com/v/QrhqkEHep88

Do not have much....however, not from the lack of respect, but just have not traveled down his road much.  Suggestions outside of the westerns  and The Untouchables (GREAT SCORE!!!!) welcomed.

I'm not much of an expert and Morricone wrote hundreds of scores, but from my memory The Mission, Queimada and The Battle Of Algiers had fine soundtracks. I'm sure you can check them out on youtube.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on May 08, 2011, 04:07:44 PM
Guess I'll have to get the Raine recording of Barbarian. I don't mind alternative interpretations of film music. Once it's detached from the film, you should be able to do whatever it takes to make it effective, e.g. the conclusion of Starship Troopers (which hopefully will see its own rerecording) could be much more emphatic than in the original performance IMO.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 08, 2011, 05:47:59 PM
Guess I'll have to get the Raine recording of Barbarian. I don't mind alternative interpretations of film music. Once it's detached from the film, you should be able to do whatever it takes to make it effective, e.g. the conclusion of Starship Troopers (which hopefully will see its own rerecording) could be much more emphatic than in the original performance IMO.

Depends on the score for me.  Naturally when he original source material no longer exists, or is in poor shape, then a re-recording is fine. 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Lethevich on May 08, 2011, 07:31:00 PM
I should also note - the booklet notes in the new recording are excellent, they offer a description of each track, numerous photographs, and there is a nice intro written by the composer's family amongst other things.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 09, 2011, 01:57:06 PM
I should also note - the booklet notes in the new recording are excellent, they offer a description of each track, numerous photographs, and there is a nice intro written by the composer's family amongst other things.

*leans closer to a purchase*
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on May 09, 2011, 02:49:05 PM
How many pages? :shifty:
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on May 13, 2011, 04:31:55 AM
The production is 10x better - it sounds like orchestral music rather than the shrill, highlighted, spotlighted, flat, zero ambience tendencies of the original.

Mind you, Poledouris himself supervised the shrill, highlighted, spotlighted, flat, zero ambience tendencies of the original. ;)

The new recording is nice - a little too nice, maybe.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 13, 2011, 04:42:56 AM
How many pages?

24, including front and back covers.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on May 13, 2011, 11:01:59 AM
I found this John Corigliano interview regarding the score to "The Red Violin" most enlightening. Anyone who feels composing film music is frivolous should hear his insights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jt6innUUM_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt6innUUM_c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt6innUUM_c)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on May 15, 2011, 04:34:18 PM
On a related note, I read an interview with Trent Reznor about the Social Network soundtrack, in which he talked about the difference between writing stand-alone music and film score. His score (admittedly co-written) does definitely sound like a background or accompaniment to something else, IMO, but is good listening on those terms. Of course, some scores, e.g. Herrmanns, can accomplish both functions at once.
 
P.S. Shut up, James.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 17, 2011, 05:10:16 PM
On a related note, I read an interview with Trent Reznor about the Social Network soundtrack, in which he talked about the difference between writing stand-alone music and film score. His score (admittedly co-written) does definitely sound like a background or accompaniment to something else, IMO, but is good listening on those terms.

I have the disc and enjoyed it as stand alone music, but will only grab it once in a great while.

Of course, some scores, e.g. Herrmanns, can accomplish both functions at once.
 

Truth.


Latest listening:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Gjb2bLIaL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This Johnny Williams' installment is better than the picture it was scored for, IMO.

Also:

(http://www.soundtrack-club.net/content/images/0102632DNY.jpg)

Love that "vintage" chorus work on this one.  Makes me smile every time I listen to it. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidW on May 17, 2011, 05:12:25 PM
This Johnny Williams' installment is better than the picture it was scored for, IMO.

So be it... Bogey.

(http://www.badassoftheweek.com/emperor-forcelightning.jpg)

I'm still going to buy it on blu-ray! ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 17, 2011, 05:23:30 PM
So be it... Bogey.

(http://www.badassoftheweek.com/emperor-forcelightning.jpg)

I'm still going to buy it on blu-ray! ;D

Oh, I'm in! Just because it falls short of the others does not mean it does not deserve repeated viewing. :)  Plus it is my son's favorite out of the lot.  I am an Empire Strikes Back guy....laser cannons and  Imperial Walkers on an ice planet (Hoth) is about as cool as it gets.  I wonder if the Blu-Ray will sharpen without making everything look wooden or plastic like the last dvd installment that looks like a soundstage on our BR player?  When is it expected out?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on May 17, 2011, 05:49:24 PM
Oh, I'm in! Just because it falls short of the others does not mean it does not deserve repeated viewing. :)  Plus it is my son's favorite out of the lot.  I am an Empire Strikes Back guy....laser cannons and  Imperial Walkers on an ice planet (Hoth) is about as cool as it gets.  I wonder if the Blu-Ray will sharpen without making everything look wooden or plastic like the last dvd installment that looks like a soundstage on our BR player?  When is it expected out?

I actually enjoyed The Return of the Jedi. In fact, I thought it had more substance and emotion than the first two films. The scene where Darth Vader watches Luke get blasted by lightning from the Emperor and finally has had enough only to throw the Emperor into that shaft was very moving for me. Darth Vader simply wasn't going to stand there and watch his son die. No, as Luke said, there was still some good left in him.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 17, 2011, 05:52:09 PM
Just read some pre-lims on the BR set....good and bad.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on May 17, 2011, 05:53:02 PM
Just read some pre-lims on the BR set....good and bad.

Who are you talking to?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: DavidW on May 18, 2011, 05:54:13 AM
Oh, I'm in! Just because it falls short of the others does not mean it does not deserve repeated viewing. :)  Plus it is my son's favorite out of the lot.  I am an Empire Strikes Back guy....laser cannons and  Imperial Walkers on an ice planet (Hoth) is about as cool as it gets.  I wonder if the Blu-Ray will sharpen without making everything look wooden or plastic like the last dvd installment that looks like a soundstage on our BR player?  When is it expected out?

Mid-September, not far from my b-day. :)

Just read some pre-lims on the BR set....good and bad.

No original versions, not even as special features... yeah you're stick with non-anamorphic widescreen sd for the original versions.  Well I'm fine, I've made my peace with the changes.  And I'm glad to not have to wait for blu-ray until after the 3d rereleases in the theater (that would take a long time).  And that is why I don't have Titanic on blu-ray, it won't come out until after the 3d rerelease.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on May 18, 2011, 06:05:42 PM
I have the 6-CD set of the original Star Wars music, but haven't got around to RotJ yet - so am unsure whether it has the original finale or not.

At the risk of turning this into the Star Wars thread, I like RotJ, although the plot degenerates into a bit of a mess, and the ewoks are tiresome. I'm NOT the greatest fan of Empire, partly because it suffers from middle film syndrome, but mostly because the Degobah scenes irritate and bore me. Tend to skip the middle part, do I.

All I know of the Peter Pan music is the Disney records I grew up with, 7" long players with story on one side and songs on the other. Anyone else remember those?


BTW, I am refusing to buy the Star Wars DVDs/Blurays until the originals are released. I am prepared to wait...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Rinaldo on August 08, 2011, 02:45:28 AM
The scene where Darth Vader watches Luke get blasted by lightning from the Emperor and finally has had enough only to throw the Emperor into that shaft was very moving for me.

The whole final duel sort of redeems most of Jedi's shortcomings. And doing some thread duty: the choir that enters when Luke goes into berserk mode is one of the musical (and emotional) highlights of the whole saga.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on August 09, 2011, 12:13:49 AM
Empire was so much cooler than rebels. They should've won. Or at least not getting defeated by freaking EWOKS!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Grazioso on August 09, 2011, 03:56:50 AM
Empire was so much cooler than rebels. They should've won. Or at least not getting defeated by freaking EWOKS!

"Lord Vader, I'm sorry to report we've been defeated by teddy bears."
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 14, 2011, 10:34:51 AM
Added two to the collection this weekend:

Loved Powell's How to Train Your Dragon score, so thought I would snap this up from the used bins without haveing heard it, or seen the movie.  A good set of music, but one could tell that is was definitely made specifically for a movie such as this...might have to watch it now.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61N2DJRYXML._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Also:

Had this on my wish-list.....great theme throughout:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qiQ71qIvL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on September 25, 2011, 07:02:10 PM


Bernard Herrmann - CAPE FEAR "adapted, arranged and conducted by Elmer Bernstein"

I guess if anyone had to do this, Bernstein was the guy to pick. It sounds great, but I can't help wishing we could hear Herrmann's original score complete. I think it's one of his best. And why does the last track seem to just suddenly stop?


Eliot Goldenthal - Interview with the Vampire.

I like this a lot. Moment by moment it's bloody brilliant, and Goldenthal's frigid textures and classical devices remind me of Schnittke. I just wish the score had the thematic unity that sets the great ones apart from the pack (Cape Fear, for instance). The end result is just too bitty to satisfy.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: schweitzeralan on November 28, 2011, 01:36:50 PM
I hope I haven't broken the rules by naming three films that use pre-existing music. I suppose that is cheating, a little bit. Sorry.  :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on December 23, 2011, 07:47:39 AM
What does everybody think about the films scores to The Lord of the Rings written by Howard Shore? Does anyone one the soundtracks? Those deluxe sets look nice as they contain the complete score for each movie.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 23, 2011, 07:55:44 AM
What does everybody think about the films scores to The Lord of the Rings written by Howard Shore? Does anyone one the soundtracks? Those deluxe sets look nice as they contain the complete score for each movie.

At this point I have only viewed disc 1 of the extended edition of The R. of the K., so consider this a limited sample, if you will.

I think it all works very well as soundtrack. Considering all the buzz, I admit to some disappointment that full half of what I have heard so far is too lazy a nod to either Riverdance or Carmina Burana. Personally, I could not imagine listening to the soundtrack apart from the movie.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 23, 2011, 03:47:10 PM
What does everybody think about the films scores to The Lord of the Rings written by Howard Shore? Does anyone one the soundtracks? Those deluxe sets look nice as they contain the complete score for each movie.

Love 'em.  The first is my favorite, but that is probably because I have not given the other two their just listening.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 23, 2011, 04:15:26 PM


Bernard Herrmann - CAPE FEAR "adapted, arranged and conducted by Elmer Bernstein"

I guess if anyone had to do this, Bernstein was the guy to pick. It sounds great, but I can't help wishing we could hear Herrmann's original score complete. I think it's one of his best. And why does the last track seem to just suddenly stop?


I will dig around a bit....maybe something to do with it being his last score?  Did he even hear it in its complete form?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on December 23, 2011, 09:02:54 PM
At this point I have only viewed disc 1 of the extended edition of The R. of the K., so consider this a limited sample, if you will.

I think it all works very well as soundtrack. Considering all the buzz, I admit to some disappointment that full half of what I have heard so far is too lazy a nod to either Riverdance or Carmina Burana. Personally, I could not imagine listening to the soundtrack apart from the movie.


Interesting, thanks for your input, Karl. I read these LOTR soundtracks don't really stand on their own too well, but that's just a few opinions I've read.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on December 23, 2011, 09:03:22 PM
Love 'em.  The first is my favorite, but that is probably because I have not given the other two their just listening.

Do you own just the single releases or do you own the extended editions?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Lisztianwagner on December 24, 2011, 02:39:59 AM
Some of mine:

Love and Death - Sergei Prokofiev
Immortal Beloved - Ludwig van Beethoven
Mahler - Gustav Mahler
The Great Dictator - Richard Wagner/Johannes Brahms
Amadeus - W.A. Mozart
Scoop - Grieg/Tchaikovsky/J. Strauss
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 24, 2011, 02:46:54 PM
Do you own just the single releases or do you own the extended editions?

Singles.  Would have bought the extended had I not purchased these first.  Definitely a score where I follow the movie in my mind as it plays out.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on December 25, 2011, 01:25:22 AM
I will dig around a bit....maybe something to do with it being his last score?  Did he even hear it in its complete form?

Hang your head in shame! You should know that Herrmann's last score was for Taxi Driver. Or were you talking about Bernstein?...

I had 1-CD release of Fellowship of the Ring. I found it benefited in the hearing by boosting the bass. It was good for evoking memories of the movie (not something I particularly desired to do), but not that interesting in its own right. I wish Shore had written the score in something more his own style, instead of this Korngold/Goldsmith pastiche.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 25, 2011, 10:18:55 PM
Hang your head in shame! You should know that Herrmann's last score was for Taxi Driver. Or were you talking about Bernstein?...


Sorry....got excited. ;D  Not often you see posts about Herrmann.  My apologies.   As for Bernstein, he wrote after this.  Was his last Far From Heaven (2002), or did he have others?  At least that is the last one I heard.  I knew about it because Elmer received a nomination for this one.  Kind of cool to see one of the older composers in the conversation that year, along with John Williams for Catch Me If You Can....neither won.  Either way, great composers.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: mc ukrneal on December 25, 2011, 11:41:38 PM
What does everybody think about the films scores to The Lord of the Rings written by Howard Shore? Does anyone one the soundtracks? Those deluxe sets look nice as they contain the complete score for each movie.
I like them, but must admit I rarely listen to them in the order they are listed OR I listen to bits and pieces. If you are not sure, the best thing is probably to watch the movie again with an eye towards the music. If you listen to all three in a row, I think you would tire of the music as it is somewhat repetitive. This is probably why I like to flit around. It may also account for Karl's comments.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 26, 2011, 05:45:58 AM
I like them, but must admit I rarely listen to them in the order they are listed OR I listen to bits and pieces. If you are not sure, the best thing is probably to watch the movie again with an eye towards the music. If you listen to all three in a row, I think you would tire of the music as it is somewhat repetitive. This is probably why I like to flit around. It may also account for Karl's comments.

Never have listened to all three back to back to back.  However, I agree there would be a "sameness" about them.  I would find the same is true   for the Star Wars efforts from Williams.  Or almost any three films, which do not need to be sequels, scored by Zimmer or Horner. ;D

Back to Shore.  Does anyone here enjoy his Aviator effort?  I thought it a heck of a score.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 27, 2011, 06:31:20 AM
Back to Shore.  Does anyone here enjoy his Aviator effort?  I thought it a heck of a score.

I haven't seen that one yet . . . thought he did a fine job with Dead Ringers, though that's a film I shan't need to revisit again anytime soon ; )
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 27, 2011, 06:36:01 AM
Sorry....got excited. ;D  Not often you see posts about Herrmann.  My apologies.   As for Bernstein, he wrote after this.  Was his last Far From Heaven (2002), or did he have others?  At least that is the last one I heard.  I knew about it because Elmer received a nomination for this one.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Bernstein#Filmography), that was his last, Bill. Interesting that his filmography there lists "Gangs of New York (rejected) (2002)" . . . since I just noticed from Howard Shore's filmography that he wound up scoring that one.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Est.1965 on December 27, 2011, 06:47:47 AM
According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Bernstein#Filmography), that was his last, Bill. Interesting that his filmography there lists "Gangs of New York (rejected) (2002)" . . . since I just noticed from Howard Shore's filmography that he wound up scoring that one.

That'll be why I thought this was Scorceses worst movie Karl.  I never liked that movie!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 27, 2011, 06:53:38 AM
That's more than I can answer to, Johnnie . . . I've not seen it! : )
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 27, 2011, 09:31:09 AM
That's more than I can answer to, Johnnie . . . I've not seen it! : )

Boom-da-da-boodle, Karl!  Your wife's artwork was most appreciated this season.
Thread duty for Gangs of NY:
Fun to watch Danny Day' Lewis do his thing....neat looking film....but the story was very weak, IMO.  Cannot recall the music.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: snyprrr on December 27, 2011, 11:37:04 AM
ALL-TIME FAVORITE:

Exorcist II: The Heretic: 'Reagen's Theme'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcy9ULOFfVw


Theme from Phantasm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ieQxm_M2I

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 27, 2011, 04:03:27 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51e-6AK%2B8mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

In his liner notes, Shore explains that the score bridges together the sound of the silent era films with the films of the 30's and 40'....also a Spanish influence is added to reflect the California setting.  I will give it a fresh listen while testing some new computer speakers.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 27, 2011, 04:55:10 PM
Now, a favorite of the whole family....

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EfpHqEfcL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

....even though the kiddos have not seen the movie yet, they still like the music.  Probably will let the film role after Ethan finishes the book.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 28, 2011, 11:36:39 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51e-6AK%2B8mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)


I love the film (and it redeemed Leonardo "Titanic" DiCaprio)...but I can't recall the music.

Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 28, 2011, 11:42:36 AM
Hm, to think I nearly picked that one up for a song . . . .
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 16, 2012, 04:43:10 PM
Just got done watching my avatar and decided a bit of BIG WESTERN film music was in order.....

(http://www.koolkatjazz.com/catalog/images/r7016.JPG)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 21, 2012, 03:34:59 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518JbVXyIBL._AA300_.jpg)

I like this sequal score a bit more than William's original effort.  We are about to watch the movie with the kiddos and some of their friends.  Just finished reading the book to Marnie, so it should be fun.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on January 23, 2012, 11:40:27 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518JbVXyIBL._AA300_.jpg)

I like this sequal score a bit more than William's original effort.

Interesting. I picked up the 2-CD rerecording of the series music on Silva Screen (an Xmas present for my nephew), and received the impression that the later non-Williams scores were better, or at least more enjoyable.
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 24, 2012, 06:52:09 PM
Interesting. I picked up the 2-CD rerecording of the series music on Silva Screen (an Xmas present for my nephew), and received the impression that the later non-Williams scores were better, or at least more enjoyable.

I do not own the later efforts...just 1-3.  I might have to look into them, or at least give a close listen as we work through the books and the movies.  Who were the composers in the later efforts?  Any Williams' flavoring save the main title theme?  I wonder if his influence diminished over time?  Any queues that you particurly enjoy?  My favorite: Fawkes The Phoenix (Album Version).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 25, 2012, 05:19:32 AM
The more I watch of the Jackson movies, the less I think of Howard Shore's music in them, alas.

But there are other movies where I like his music better.  And I am sure he did the music here just as pleased the director (which, of course, is perfectly right).

Anyway, he's making a pile pushing it all off as a "symphony," so I shan't feel sorry for him
; )
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 25, 2012, 05:36:47 AM
The more I watch of the Jackson movies, the less I think of Howard Shore's music in them, alas.

But there are other movies where I like his music better.  And I am sure he did the music here just as pleased the director (which, of course, is perfectly right).

Anyway, he's making a pile pushing it all off as a "symphony," so I shan't feel sorry for him
; )

I think Shore's slower, more dramatic music in the TLOTR films to be more effective than the brash, fanfare/battle music. But I find Shore to be a successful score composer with a good range, Nobody's Fool, Cronenberg films as well as recent Scorsese films.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 25, 2012, 05:38:27 AM
Right, he did Hugo, didn't he?  Of course, much of the music (indeed, much of the best music) was borrowed from (genuine) French composers, but I should agree that the Shore contribution was apt.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 25, 2012, 05:47:18 AM
Right, he did Hugo, didn't he?  Of course, much of the music (indeed, much of the best music) was borrowed from (genuine) French composers, but I should agree that the Shore contribution was apt.

He did, but I haven't seen Hugo yet, it's on my list of must-see.

Karl, who are some film score composers that you enjoy the most?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jowcol on January 25, 2012, 11:05:06 AM
The more I watch of the Jackson movies, the less I think of Howard Shore's music in them, alas.

But there are other movies where I like his music better.  And I am sure he did the music here just as pleased the director (which, of course, is perfectly right).

Anyway, he's making a pile pushing it all off as a "symphony," so I shan't feel sorry for him
; )

To be honest- I hated the mixing of the soundtrack on the LOTR movies.   Many times it was simply too loud.  We were watching them on DVD with the kids asleep upstairs, and  when the score would swell it got too loud, and when we reset the level, we could'nt hear the dialog, so I turned it up again.  Repeat until done.

I found the levels so intrusive in spots that I really could not appreciate the score on its own terms.   I'll need to check them apart from the movies.  (And I was only so-so  on the movies-- maybe for the same reason. )

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 25, 2012, 11:08:05 AM
Karl, who are some film score composers that you enjoy the most?

I've been going back to the Hitchcock films just to hear the Herrmann scores, Greg.

And of course, I go back to the Kozintsev Shakespeare films just to groove anew to the late Shostakovich.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: starrynight on January 27, 2012, 11:22:32 PM
Sometimes I feel I have a problem with film music being put under classical.  Any kind of music, or combinations of different kinds, can be put in films.  Also you could compare it to something like ballet music where most of it is probably forgettable and largely serves another purpose than just being music and yet there can be some great exceptions too (like Psycho).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 28, 2012, 05:36:36 AM
Sometimes I feel I have a problem with film music being put under classical.  Any kind of music, or combinations of different kinds, can be put in films.  Also you could compare it to something like ballet music where most of it is probably forgettable and largely serves another purpose than just being music and yet there can be some great exceptions too (like Psycho).

Then this seven page thread is for you: ;D

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1096.msg26713.html#msg26713
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 28, 2012, 07:24:45 AM
Sometimes I feel I have a problem with film music being put under classical.  Any kind of music, or combinations of different kinds, can be put in films.  Also you could compare it to something like ballet music where most of it is probably forgettable and largely serves another purpose than just being music and yet there can be some great exceptions too (like Psycho).

In many cases, the score is just to accompany and enhance the images with very little distractions, which can be very effective but not as enjoyable on its own.

But, some very famous and well-known scenes in film history feature previously composed classical music, Kubrick and Terrance Malick have used classical music in their films, also the famous Apocalypse Now/Wagner helicopter scene, Platoon with Adagio for Strings, 2001 with The Blue Danube...In these cases I find the music not only enhanced but improved the scenes, for example, what would be so interestingly new about a group of helicopters...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 28, 2012, 06:10:35 PM
I decided to buy this, as I wrote on "Recordings You Are Considering."

Bernard Herrmann's score for

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X9jvjmAxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This is the original performance with Herrmann conducting: monaural sound, and part of the performance could only be salvaged from somewhat damaged recordings.  In the stereo era, Charles Gerhard conducted one great excerpt from the score (The Death Hunt) for a Herrmann sampler.  Perhaps somebody will record a 21st century version soon!

The movie is now available on DVD (Nicholas Ray, director) and is a distant, indirect ancestor to Clint Eastwood's "Dirty Harry."  An abusive out-of-control detective is nearly fired, but is sent to a rural area to investigate a murder.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: starrynight on January 29, 2012, 04:33:19 AM
In many cases, the score is just to accompany and enhance the images with very little distractions, which can be very effective but not as enjoyable on its own.

But, some very famous and well-known scenes in film history feature previously composed classical music, Kubrick and Terrance Malick have used classical music in their films, also the famous Apocalypse Now/Wagner helicopter scene, Platoon with Adagio for Strings, 2001 with The Blue Danube...In these cases I find the music not only enhanced but improved the scenes, for example, what would be so interestingly new about a group of helicopters...

Yeh that's what I mean, it isn't meant to be listened to on it's own often.

And yeh they do reuse classical pieces.  I suppose ballet can also reuse pieces, in a dance context.  Though the pieces would work well in the original context too, maybe better in some cases.


And I didn't say there were no good film scores, just not a huge amount perhaps.  And it does straddle the border between classical and other genres.  A bit like some new age music does that people often call classical but I'm not sure it is always as classical as some say it is.  Sometimes it might distort the view of some people less familiar with classical music with what the main genres and styles are within that continuing tradition.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Est.1965 on January 29, 2012, 05:31:04 AM
Yeh that's what I mean, it isn't meant to be listened to on it's own often.
And yeh they do reuse classical pieces.  I suppose ballet can also reuse pieces, in a dance context.  Though the pieces would work well in the original context too, maybe better in some cases.
And I didn't say there were no good film scores, just not a huge amount perhaps.  And it does straddle the border between classical and other genres.  A bit like some new age music does that people often call classical but I'm not sure it is always as classical as some say it is.  Sometimes it might distort the view of some people less familiar with classical music with what the main genres and styles are within that continuing tradition.

Yes, it makes me a bit annoyed when 'New Age' music is passed off as Classical.  Classical music works within its own paradigm, albeit an ever expanding one, and so called 'New Age' Music does not fit it - where are the sonata forms, etc?  Just because 'a music' may use the same instruments, it does not mean it's classical.  Music in Operas, Ballets and movies are written as accompaniments to keep 'moving' the visual stimuli and enhance the the experience of the performance and storyline...moulded and performed from 'classical' instuments, but not Classical Muisc per se.  Still, that doesn't stop me from listening to exciting movie music by Herrmann, Williams, Zimmer and in particular Danny Elfman, or great ballet scores by Tchaikovsky, or thundering brilliant music seperated from Richard Wagners operatic contexts.  But it is for different reasons and a different listening experience that I listen to things like that.   ::)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: starrynight on January 29, 2012, 09:26:09 AM
Yes, it makes me a bit annoyed when 'New Age' music is passed off as Classical.  Classical music works within its own paradigm, albeit an ever expanding one, and so called 'New Age' Music does not fit it - where are the sonata forms, etc?  Just because 'a music' may use the same instruments, it does not mean it's classical.  Music in Operas, Ballets and movies are written as accompaniments to keep 'moving' the visual stimuli and enhance the the experience of the performance and storyline...moulded and performed from 'classical' instuments, but not Classical Muisc per se.  Still, that doesn't stop me from listening to exciting movie music by Herrmann, Williams, Zimmer and in particular Danny Elfman, or great ballet scores by Tchaikovsky, or thundering brilliant music seperated from Richard Wagners operatic contexts.  But it is for different reasons and a different listening experience that I listen to things like that.   ::)

Well there can be some overlap between new age and classical, mainly on the minimalist side of things.  But sometimes I think people confuse something which is obviously new age with classical.  And similarly some film music (not all) isn't really that classical it is more popular background music, just like if someone put some excerpts together from musicals that wouldn't really be classical either.  I love the popular music side of things but it is different.  Except for some jazz it tends towards a more direct simpler approach, whereas classical tends towards a more involved complex sound.  That's a big generalisation but sometimes you have to make those in discussing music.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 29, 2012, 01:08:22 PM
. . . 2001 with The Blue Danube...In these cases I find the music not only enhanced but improved the scenes . . . .

The Strauss waltz really sets a tone for those scenes which is a marvelous discovery.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 29, 2012, 01:19:10 PM
Now that I have seen all the the Lord of the Rings movies in their extended versions, I give Howard Shore a B for that assignment: overall, did the job well.
 
Personally, I don't fancy the music out of the context of the movies; and (fair disclosure, I suppose) for a long time I've thought of a piece of my own, which I probably shan't write for a long while again, so Shore and I have different ideas, generally . . . and more than one specific idea of his, I did not care for his choice(s).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 29, 2012, 06:03:55 PM
Now that I have seen all the the Lord of the Rings movies in their extended versions, I give Howard Shore a B for that assignment: overall, did the job well.
 
Personally, I don't fancy the music out of the context of the movies; and (fair disclosure, I suppose) for a long time I've thought of a piece of my own, which I probably shan't write for a long while again, so Shore and I have different ideas, generally . . . and more than one specific idea of his, I did not care for his choice(s).

It would be neat if you broke it down a bit more for specific pieces, Karl.  I have enjoyed the scores, but try to keep each que isolated.  Fun to see which you thought could use a change.  Speaking of LOR, rolling out this one this evening:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61LlUZFs16L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 29, 2012, 06:36:43 PM
Well, the LOTR above was not working for me, so I switched to a composer I always seem to enjoy greatly, Rachel Portman.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DzNvFjTzL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on January 29, 2012, 07:53:42 PM
I've been going back to the Hitchcock films just to hear the Herrmann scores, Greg.

And of course, I go back to the Kozintsev Shakespeare films just to groove anew to the late Shostakovich.


Undoubtedly a more rewarding experience than watching Scott of the Antarctic for the Vaughan Williams score! A terribly clunky film, with technique thirty years out of date when it was made, and solidly wooden acting (don't give me that "stoic", "understated" crap - it was WOODEN).

I've been enjoying (if that's the word) the scores for the two recent Texas Chainsaw Massacre films. They are useful for setting the mood while working on my novel. Steve Jablonsky uses lots of "advanced" techniques interweaved with electronic noises, but has some fresh and varied sounds compared to most scores I've heard in this genre (which are usually a half-and-half mix of sad piano fragments and Penderecki rip-off). Recommended if you are planning a haunted house next Halloween, which I understand is something you Americans like to do?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Nd%2BPFq03L._AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Chainsaw-Massacre-Steve-Jablonsky/dp/B0000CABLW/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1327894573&sr=1-2)


Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 29, 2012, 09:57:05 PM
Georges Delerue wrote some beautiful and at times mesmerizing music for Godard's Le Mépris (Contempt) and Truffaut's Jules and Jim .
Here are some sound clips...

Contempt: Camille's Theme by George Delerue - includes shots from the film...
http://www.youtube.com/v/S5BcdmkiuaY

Jules and Jim: Brouillard by George Delerue - the video is just footage compiled from whomever uploaded the video, it's not from the film.
http://www.youtube.com/v/mm23uWy7pbk
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 30, 2012, 04:53:36 AM
Undoubtedly a more rewarding experience than watching Scott of the Antarctic for the Vaughan Williams score! A terribly clunky film, with technique thirty years out of date when it was made, and solidly wooden acting (don't give me that "stoic", "understated" crap - it was WOODEN).

Greg, the upside to that must be: it's all the easier to focus on Vaughan Williams's music! Je-je-je!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 30, 2012, 02:01:41 PM
Georges Delerue wrote some beautiful and at times mesmerizing music...

A Little Romance with music by Delerue is one our favorites.

It seems not to be available on a CD.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7HWwFWRDcRE/TZ_l7b5VCuI/AAAAAAAARpQ/m1sxoVK57B4/s1600/little_romance.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 30, 2012, 02:07:26 PM
A Little Romance with music by Delerue is one our favorites.

It seems not to be available on a CD.

It is available at Amazon DE:

http://www.amazon.de/Little-Romance-Georges-Delerue/dp/B000025HS2/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1327961141&sr=1-1-catcorr


Sarge
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on January 30, 2012, 04:17:11 PM
Greg, the upside to that must be: it's all the easier to focus on Vaughan Williams's music! Je-je-je!

Erm, I'm not Greg.

Any other examples of poor films with outstanding scores?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 30, 2012, 04:31:21 PM
Sorry, I have a cold . . . .
 
Sorry to have mistook you, feller.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: eyeresist on January 30, 2012, 04:37:19 PM
Sorry, I have a cold . . . .

Ohh, I got that one! :)

Reminds me of a weird Spike Milligan joke for some reason:
Q: Is it a man or a woman?
A: I can't tell - doesn't have any clothes on!
 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 30, 2012, 08:10:48 PM
A Little Romance with music by Delerue is one our favorites.

It seems not to be available on a CD.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7HWwFWRDcRE/TZ_l7b5VCuI/AAAAAAAARpQ/m1sxoVK57B4/s1600/little_romance.jpg)


Thanks, not familiar with this, but will look for it. Great cover art there.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Ataraxia on February 28, 2012, 07:59:39 AM
http://www.amazon.com/50-Classic-Horror-Film-Themes/dp/B002QWH8S2

50 Classic Horror Film Themes for download.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on February 28, 2012, 09:02:58 PM
http://www.amazon.com/50-Classic-Horror-Film-Themes/dp/B002QWH8S2

50 Classic Horror Film Themes for download.

Cool, Dave.  Do you have any Hans Salter or Frank Skinner on hand to compliment that killer set?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Est.1965 on February 29, 2012, 11:35:26 AM

50 Classic Horror Film Themes for download.

It is a horrific set.  I was terrrified even to buy it.

***runs away screaming for his life***
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: snyprrr on March 03, 2012, 12:37:29 AM
Any comment on the Oscar contenders for this year. J. Williams was on two, I think another standard, and the silent movie won, I believe. Tintin?

It all sounds like John Williams. ::)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 03, 2013, 05:28:18 PM
Two today:


From 1990, Basil Poledouris' The Hunt for Red October.

(http://o.scdn.co/300/220723136adc3747901ca01f2e5d974fe24f4551)


Over the top moments with some "Zimmer-like" swatches of sound that nearly fail to captivate with dashes choral work that sound dreadful most of the time.  However, there are some cues worth having like Putin's Demise.  Overall, I give it 2 out of 5 stars.


And, from 2002, John Williams' Minority Report. 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51z4KFAFYZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This may be my favorite of all his scores.  Love the main title and the other two that pop out are Spyders and Eye-Dentiscan.  Just a great use of strings.  Think "Psycho" with a strong Williams and sci-fi flavor added at times.  This one I obviously give 5 out 5 stars.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 03, 2013, 05:29:08 PM

It all sounds like John Williams. ::)

Yes....we continue to be blessed by his efforts.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 04, 2013, 07:33:12 AM
Two today:
[snip]

I think you'd get a kick out of this 'un, Bill:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 04, 2013, 07:35:15 AM
Not much here, but . . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Babylon
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 04, 2013, 12:32:25 PM
Not much here, but . . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Babylon

Thanks, Karl!  Could not find it on Netflix, but found the film (I believe)here.  Music is different than yours though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWbK412Xx_o
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 04, 2013, 12:34:07 PM
A snippet with the actual score?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKmVOI_Kty0
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 04, 2013, 12:46:52 PM
Thread duty:

4 out of 5 stars for Herrmann's 1959 North by Northwest.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vTQFvpCvL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This one has 50 cues on it, so do not "blink" while listening.  The restoration process is incredible and we are lucky to have the real thing.  The overtue them is always "running" fun, but there are some neat cues that I found myself listening to more than once.  Really enjoyed it .... and Previn fans:

The manner in which Herrmann introduces the love theme is interesting. When Roger enters the dining car, source music plays a romantic swing tune with violins. Royal S. Brown identifies this as "Fashion Show," a song by Andre Previn  (track 17 and over 5 minutes long).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 06, 2013, 08:52:45 AM
Soundtrack from 1998 (Has it really been 15 years?!):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wACocKAzL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

If you read Amazon's reviews, they have it at 4.5 stars out of 5.  I have it at 1 out of 5....which means I will keep it, but only as a reference.  I know that the snare drum has a long history, but I felt it was misused in this film.  I wanted a more period feel and add to the fact that the choral work is almost nails on chalkboard like and you have yourself a poor score.  Cool cover though. ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 06, 2013, 08:55:25 AM
Hmmm.  Looking back at recent posts makes me aware of how James must have felt on the Make Jazz Noise Here page.  Just sayin'. :D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 06, 2013, 10:58:57 AM
From 2010:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rJqLiJSZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Granted this one has the benefit of having snips of LvB's No. 7 and PC No. 5, but as for the other cues, I find them hummable and enjoyable.  Easily 4 out of 5 5 stars from Alexandre Desplat, who I appreciate more and more everytime I listen to one of his scores.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 06, 2013, 12:41:37 PM
Thanks, Karl!  Could not find it on Netflix, but found the film (I believe)here.  Music is different than yours though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWbK412Xx_o

A snippet with the actual score?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKmVOI_Kty0

Thanks for these, Bill, cheers! Busy weekend . . . .

Hmmm.  Looking back at recent posts makes me aware of how James must have felt on the Make Jazz Noise Here page.  Just sayin'. :D

Didn't mean to leave you high & dry! : )
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 06, 2013, 12:44:16 PM
Bill, I know you for a Howard Shore fan . . . I note that he is credited for the original score in High Fidelity. Of course, I tend to think of all the pop songs artfully used in the movie (and I think there was some editor other responsible at that desk); and I honestly don't recall original music from the movie — which probably means, it didn't draw attention to itself, and therefore did its job : )
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 06, 2013, 04:35:54 PM
Bill, I know you for a Howard Shore fan . . . I note that he is credited for the original score in High Fidelity. Of course, I tend to think of all the pop songs artfully used in the movie (and I think there was some editor other responsible at that desk); and I honestly don't recall original music from the movie — which probably means, it didn't draw attention to itself, and therefore did its job : )

It looks as if he did score the film, but so little was used or composed that it did not get its own cd....and was not put on the soundtrack.  Here seems to be some files?

http://www.filecrop.com/high-fidelity-howard-shore.html
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 07, 2013, 02:39:19 PM
Recently we revisited Lonesome Dove and the great soundtrack by Basil Poledouris.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 07, 2013, 08:23:29 PM
Recently we revisited Lonesome Dove and the great soundtrack by Basil Poledouris.



Don't have that one.  Does he use anvils for blacksmiths in this one?  ;)


Thread duty:

Gabriel Yared's 1996 amazing score:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SGCZR479L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Love all the Hungarian layers and the mix of some old time jazz.....one of the best I own.  5 out of 5 stars.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 07, 2013, 08:31:56 PM
This is a great thread, enjoying going through it for I am quite fond of film scores.

Listening now to Alberto Iglesias original score for Almodovar's masterful 1999 film, Todo Sobre Mi Madre (All About My Mother). The soundtrack also contains two phenomenal tracks from bandoneonist Dino Saluzzi.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zf0hEJanL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2013, 08:36:24 PM
Has anyone heard this film work?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wwslAm0rb_g/TLszm46BfxI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/zd4WNCT-YPI/s1600/The+Village+Score.jpg)

I like it a lot. It's pretty eerie and notable for Hilary Hahn's seductive violin playing throughout. I normally don't think much of her tone, but here it sounds beautiful. Must be that gorgeous reverb that helps give more weight to the tone.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 07, 2013, 08:38:14 PM
Has anyone heard this film work?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wwslAm0rb_g/TLszm46BfxI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/zd4WNCT-YPI/s1600/The+Village+Score.jpg)

I like it a lot. It's pretty eerie and notable for Hilary Hahn's seductive violin playing throughout. I normally don't think much of her tone, but here it sounds beautiful. Must be that gorgeous reverb that helps give more weight to the tone.

No doubt that the music is better than the film.  ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2013, 08:45:24 PM
No doubt that the music is better than the film.  ;D

It's funny how often this happens, but, yes, I didn't even make it through The Village when I was watching. Pretty horrible movie. The music, on the other hand, caught my attention immediately.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 07, 2013, 09:03:52 PM
A few small gems from Angelo Badalamenti, from David Lynch's The Straight Story and Mathilde's Theme from Jean-Pierre Jeunet's Un long dimanche de fiançailles (A Very Long Engagement)



http://www.youtube.com/v/xk8Y-XxaAog http://www.youtube.com/v/0qljq_nxhBs&list=PL09EF9F0D0CE336AE http://www.youtube.com/v/zNZ0of3xqdM&list=PL09EF9F0D0CE336AE
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Octave on January 07, 2013, 09:09:37 PM
Heard yet another Philip Glass score, this time for string quartet (?) and sounding an awful lot like an awful lot of other Philip Glass scores---and please know that I've listened to a lot of his music and like a chunk of it quite a bit.  But the dynamics and sparing use of the music was especially effective; a flip-side to the (also effective) past use of bombast (MISHIMA) or simulation-of-thinking clockwork churn (FAST CHEAP AND OUT OF CONTROL) or pensive workmanlike mystery-solving rumination (FOG OF WAR).  I am not sure that this film is as good as those aforementioned.  It's ELENA by Andrei Zvyagintsev, film that I found to be very very slow.

(http://kinobuff.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/elena-poster-428-823-600.jpg)

And watch a hella lot of slow movies.  The end result was interesting for me, but more because of atmosphere and slow burn.  But we're talking about music here!  I also remember thinking that Andrei Dergatchev's [sic?] score to AZ's first feature, THE RETURN, was interesting; but it's been almost 10 years since I've seen that.  I outright disliked AZ's second film, THE BANISHMENT, and abhorred the use of Arvo Pärt's music in that film.  Actually, I think I almost always hate the use of Arvo Pärt in movies, even (arguably) good ones.  Why is this?  Is it because it seems essentially white-elephantine to do so?  Like trying to create some canned awe?  I certainly do not have a problem with Pärt's music.  He should really disallow that expropriation/exploitation of his music.  It is idiotic.  The worst I've seen was the use of "De Profundis", among my favorite choral pieces by him, in a moronic film by Shane Meadows called DEAD MAN'S SHOES, which I only watched because Paddy Considine was its star.  But wait: that piece was used beautifully (though probably also problematically) 13 years earlier in Werner Herzog's LESSONS OF DARKNESS.  And a different piece in Leos Carax's LOVERS ON THE BRIDGE.  Okay.  There have been exceptions.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on January 09, 2013, 01:00:49 PM
What does everybody think about the films scores to The Lord of the Rings written by Howard Shore? Does anyone one the soundtracks? Those deluxe sets look nice as they contain the complete score for each movie.
I've played them in orchestra.  They're okay, but not nearly as fun as the John Williams scores.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on January 09, 2013, 01:02:06 PM
I've played them in orchestra.  They're okay, but not nearly as fun as the John Williams scores.

Personally, I'd rather perform Jerry Goldsmith than John Williams.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Fafner on January 09, 2013, 02:48:40 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ce/Jerry_goldsmith-alien_score_1979.jpg/220px-Jerry_goldsmith-alien_score_1979.jpg)

And I first discovered Howard Hanson thanks to this soundtrack. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 09, 2013, 06:13:54 PM
Personally, I'd rather perform Jerry Goldsmith than John Williams.

Goldsmith was a chameleon....Williams is, well, Williams.  Glad they both have come through large and would buy a disc of either of theirs without even previewing the music. :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on January 09, 2013, 08:27:12 PM
Goldsmith was a chameleon....Williams is, well, Williams.  Glad they both have come through large and would buy a disc of either of theirs without even previewing the music. :)

What's your favorite Goldsmith film score?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 10, 2013, 08:06:10 AM
I have mentioned it before somewhere, but one of the best John Williams scores is for one of Brian De Palma's epics from the 1970's, with an all-star cast of Kirk Douglas, John Cassavetes, Charles Durning, and several others.



This is one of those movies where most people take no middle ground: you either liked it or hated it.

For Jerry Goldsmith



and the original, not the dreadful remake:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 10, 2013, 06:18:17 PM
What's your favorite Goldsmith film score?

The Alien posted above is right there. However, Planet of the Apes (may be his best?), Star Trek the Motion Picture rate highly as well. 

Two sleepers: Papillion and Masada.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71YEon6uyHL._AA300_.jpg)

The Masada I have only heard a few tracks, but enjoyed them.  Here is the title theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aorSwz8RkOw

I have also considered getting his Tora, Toora, Tora in the near future.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 10, 2013, 06:23:55 PM
Here are you Original Score nominees fpr 2013:

Anna Karenina
Dario Marianelli

Argo
Alexandre Desplat

Life of Pi
Mychael Danna

Lincoln
John Williams

Skyfall
Thomas Newman

I may pick the Argo up as I enjoyed it during the viewing of the film.  Not sure if I will grab Lincoln or Skyfall.  I will need to see the other nominees for this category before deciding on them.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 10, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ce/Jerry_goldsmith-alien_score_1979.jpg/220px-Jerry_goldsmith-alien_score_1979.jpg)

And I first discovered Howard Hanson thanks to this soundtrack. :)

One of Jerry's best.

Thread duty:A Morricone fro '87.  Some very nice cues here.  The main title kicks and the rest brings back clear scenes from the film.  My only gripe is that the cues are out of order from the movie.  I hate when folks try to "customize" it!

(http://o.scdn.co/300/3c358a4f256f31b44229b75863ef351b261d408c)

Capone's car, a 1928 Cadillac.  Why would you customize this beauty....you woudn't!

(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/07/1928-cadillac-v8-town-sedan-al-capone-001.jpg)

And the Ness: 1932 Eliot Ness Cadillac V-16 Phaeton:

(http://img0083.popscreencdn.com/128656463_y834---car-postcard---1930-cadillac-v-16-phaeton-ebay.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 10, 2013, 07:55:44 PM
From 1996:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ANWKV7XWL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Except for track 6 which is Kempff playing Schumann, meh.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 11, 2013, 02:57:09 AM
IIRC, Bill, Morricone scored Zeffirelli's Hamlet, as well.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 11, 2013, 07:11:24 PM
I'm enjoying this thread, have always loved film scores.

My favorite score composers...

Zbigniew Preisner
Carter Burwell
Joe Hisaishi
Michael Nyman
Angelo Badalamenti
Howard Shore
(mostly for his work on David Croenberg films)
Ennio Morricone

Some of my favorite scores...

The Fountain - Clint Mansell
Once Upon a Time in the West - Ennio Morricone
Vertigo - Bernard Herrmann
The Draughtsman's Contract - Michael Nyman
The Last of the Mohicans - Trevor Jones/Randy Edelman
The Double Life of Veronique; Blue - Zbigniew Preisner
The Ice Storm - Mychael Danna
Kundun - Philip Glass
Tron: Legacy - Daft Punk

Promentory by Trevor Jones from Mohicans has long been the one piece of film music that I find brilliant, for its contribution and enhancement to the film and also as a stand-alone piece. Other selections I find brilliant are Carter Burwell's theme to Miller's Crossing, an amazingly dramatic piece of Americana, on paper it may not sound right for a gangster pic, but placed in the context of the film it becomes one of the greatest movie themes...Angelo Badalamenti's theme to Blue Velvet, a dark and complex 90-seconds that foreshadows the following mystery of the severed ear...and finally, my top choice for music in a film (I say it that way because this piece was not originally written for the film) is Memorial by Michael Nyman in The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover. Nyman did edit the piece and his band even performed and recorded the selection (for the first time) for the film. To me, it's one of the most perfect marriages of sight and sound.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 12, 2013, 06:54:10 AM
Saw Django last night and Morricone was listed in the credits. Here is why:


http://djangounchained.wikia.com/wiki/Django_Unchained/Soundtrack

Not sure how many of the 3 pieces he did were original for the film.  Dude can write 'em though!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 12, 2013, 07:20:38 AM
Saw Django last night and Morricone was listed in the credits. Here is why:


http://djangounchained.wikia.com/wiki/Django_Unchained/Soundtrack

Not sure how many of the 3 pieces he did were original for the film.  Dude can write 'em though!

I read none of them were original pieces, were from the film "Two Mules for Sister Sara".
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 12, 2013, 07:34:01 AM
I read none of them were original pieces, were from the film "Two Mules for Sister Sara".

Thanks, Greg.  It seems that Terrantino(sp?) likes to have the music and then write the scene, so that makes sense.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 12, 2013, 07:40:24 AM
Thanks, Greg.  It seems that Terrantino(sp?) likes to have the music and then write the scene, so that makes sense.

You're welcome.
Kill Bill Vol.1 is a testament to that method for sure, the entire fight scene in the end, from inside the restaurant to the one-on-one with Lucy Liu, is choreographed to his selections.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: sound67 on April 04, 2013, 08:32:53 AM
I read none of them were original pieces, were from the film "Two Mules for Sister Sara".

Tarantino (almost?!) exclusively uses existing film/classical/pop music to score his movies. Much in the same way he quotes from other films all the time. These are his "fixations", and the reason why he hasn't made a truly original movie since "Pulp Fiction", the first of his to employ such tactics. He's a virtuoso film maker with a vast knowledge of film history, but of late he seems to have stalled.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Octave on April 05, 2013, 09:12:51 PM
I was knocked out by Bernard Herrmann's very brief title-credit music for THE MAN IN THE GRAY FLANNEL SUIT; I thought it was fine stuff even by Herrmann's high standards.  The rest of the music for that film was also really good, but there was something gorgeous about that opening theme that made me re-start the film three times before it had even begun.  I also liked the film, though it was a weird one, sometimes weird in its banality and in the varieties of boredom it inspired in me; so I guess I would not recommend it casually. 

But that theme!  I regretted that Herrmann didn't (apparently) choose to conduct a suite of that music on one of the Phase 4 records that was reissued by Eloquence in two double discs, both of which I really need to get, anyway.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on April 05, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
I liked this score very much (Michael Nyman). The soundtrack also contains the slow movement of Schubert's Quintet in C played by the Amadeus Quartet and Robert Cohen (also used in the film 'Conspiracy' I think):

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: niknala on April 06, 2013, 06:06:36 AM
Is anyone familiar with the "Classic Film Scores" series recorded in the 1970s by Charles Gerhardt?  The recordings are selections from different scores on each CDs.   I've seen a bunch of the CD reissues on sale and was wondering if any are worth picking up.

(http://bmimages.jr.com/musicimages/1747694.jpg?CELL=200%2C200&QLT=85&CVT=jpeg)  (http://bmimages.jr.com/musicimages/1747707.jpg?CELL=200%2C200&QLT=85&CVT=jpeg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: mc ukrneal on April 06, 2013, 10:01:10 AM
Is anyone familiar with the "Classic Film Scores" series recorded in the 1970s by Charles Gerhardt?  The recordings are selections from different scores on each CDs.   I've seen a bunch of the CD reissues on sale and was wondering if any are worth picking up.

(http://bmimages.jr.com/musicimages/1747694.jpg?CELL=200%2C200&QLT=85&CVT=jpeg)  (http://bmimages.jr.com/musicimages/1747707.jpg?CELL=200%2C200&QLT=85&CVT=jpeg)
Outstanding! I have these:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516%2B1AGHuML._SX300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PFy7JRqiL._SX300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zkGp8GepL._SY300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51m9b7uCXlL._SY300_.jpg)

The Errol FLynn is all Korngold. Bogart and Davis are a mix. The last is all Steiner. All of it is well played. There is a fair amount I know well (because I know the movies well), but there were also some interestng pieces new to me. But even those I know, interesting to hear them outside the film.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: niknala on April 06, 2013, 11:02:59 AM
Thanks!  I think I'll try a couple.  They are on sale right now at 2/10 at J&R.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Octave on April 06, 2013, 12:25:16 PM
That's a nice list, Monkey Greg.

...Angelo Badalamenti's theme to Blue Velvet, a dark and complex 90-seconds that foreshadows the following mystery of the severed ear...

I was interested to read (in a book of interviews called LYNCH ON LYNCH) that David Lynch was compulsively listening to Shostakovich #15 while writing the BLUE VELVET screenplay, and that he had Badalamenti actually reference that symphony in in the score.  Unfortunately I read this after seeing BV, so I wasn't prepared to listen for these references.  I'm afraid I don't know my Shost well enough....I even heard excerpt(s) from Kondrashin's Shost 10 in Pedro Almodovar's LAW OF DESIRE and thought, "Whoever scored this is the man!"
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on April 06, 2013, 01:38:12 PM
Is anyone familiar with the "Classic Film Scores" series recorded in the 1970s by Charles Gerhardt?  The recordings are selections from different scores on each CDs.   I've seen a bunch of the CD reissues on sale and was wondering if any are worth picking up.

(http://bmimages.jr.com/musicimages/1747694.jpg?CELL=200%2C200&QLT=85&CVT=jpeg)  (http://bmimages.jr.com/musicimages/1747707.jpg?CELL=200%2C200&QLT=85&CVT=jpeg)

I have many of these in an earlier manifestation. The featured Waxman and Herrmann CDs are terrific. There is a weird similarity between Waxman's 'Prince Valiant' (as far as I recall) and part of Shostakovich's 11th Symphony, even though the Waxman came first! Ironicall Waxman gave the west coast premiere of the Shostakovich. I like the 'Casablanca', 'Elizabeth and Essex' (especially for the 'Cello Concerto' from 'Deception' and 'The Sea Hawk' CDs) - a fine old series in my view.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on April 06, 2013, 02:54:48 PM
Those cds are outstanding.  Would like to put them all on the shelf at some point.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on April 07, 2013, 06:36:45 PM
Waiting on The Lord of the Rings complete recordings box sets to be reissued...

Any word on these?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Szykneij on April 16, 2013, 01:05:36 PM
My son went out, leaving the TV on in the other room, and I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what I'm doing. "Chinatown" is now airing, and the Gerry Goldsmith soundtrack wafting in from across the hall is hard to ignore. What great music!

I see that Amazon now offers a digital download at a much more affordable price than the still nearly-impossible-to-find CD.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on June 24, 2013, 04:46:03 AM
Outstanding! I have these:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516%2B1AGHuML._SX300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PFy7JRqiL._SX300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zkGp8GepL._SY300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51m9b7uCXlL._SY300_.jpg)

The Errol FLynn is all Korngold. Bogart and Davis are a mix. The last is all Steiner. All of it is well played. There is a fair amount I know well (because I know the movies well), but there were also some interestng pieces new to me. But even those I know, interesting to hear them outside the film.

Some of the best you will find for these films.

Thread duty:

This weekly radio show is exceptional.  Have not listened to all of them, but the ones that I have I enjoyed.

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/programs/movies/
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on June 25, 2013, 11:07:24 AM
It is a scorching afternoon here in the Denver area. The dry heat is pressing down, so threw this one in to add to the mood a bit to give the local pavement a soundtrack. One nice thing about this set, at least IMO, is that they use the actual music from the films. Plan on surface noise, but I believe that just adds to the feel of the music.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1010780_1392990150914005_771972202_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Rons_talking on July 01, 2013, 02:56:50 PM
"The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" is one of Herrman's best, and the original "Planet of the Apes" by J. Goldsmith is like a modern ballet the first half of the film. "Rebel Without a Cause" sounds serial much of the way and gives it that distorted feeling. Leonard Rosenman wrote that score as well as several other Schoenbergian scores.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2013, 12:36:18 AM
Terrific score. Can't believe that I only just discovered this great film ('movie' to you lot in the USA  8))
:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2013, 12:39:42 AM
"The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" is one of Herrman's best, and the original "Planet of the Apes" by J. Goldsmith is like a modern ballet the first half of the film. "Rebel Without a Cause" sounds serial much of the way and gives it that distorted feeling. Leonard Rosenman wrote that score as well as several other Schoenbergian scores.

Definitely agree with you about 'The Ghost and Mrs Muir' - Herrmann's best score I think and truly haunting (as appropriate for this film!) Also the original 'Planet of the Apes' by Goldsmith. His score for 'Alien' is similarly disturbing.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on July 05, 2013, 05:19:28 AM
Definitely agree with you about 'The Ghost and Mrs Muir' - Herrmann's best score I think and truly haunting (as appropriate for this film!) A

This may interest Herrmann fans.  Some of his radio and television music featured in the broadcast as well.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on July 07, 2013, 03:34:21 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hxn6U8SBL._AA300_.jpg)

This long-awaited re-recording is definitely worth it to fans. The production is 10x better - it sounds like orchestral music rather than the shrill, highlighted, spotlighted, flat, zero ambience tendencies of the original. I've read some complaints about this lack of soloist spotlighting, but I don't want something that sounds identical to the original, that would be pointless. The sense of space is great, although the different tempos and balances to the original will take some getting used to.

Brought this one back to add this post:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jEe8K2FPL._SY300_.jpg)

Now on three cds, the complete ORIGINAL score.  Cool that they found the material.  30 bones at Amazon.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 07, 2013, 08:28:27 AM
This is not quite the thread, but last night's Columbo viewing, "Murder With Too Many Notes," featured a nice little movie-scoring drama.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on July 07, 2013, 05:47:24 PM
This is not quite the thread, but last night's Columbo viewing, "Murder With Too Many Notes," featured a nice little movie-scoring drama.

Just one more thing, sir.   Here is the music, I believe, used in the episode (from IMDB):


"1812 Overture"
Music by Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

"Prélude in E minor, Op.28 No.4"
Music by Frédéric Chopin

"The Flight of the Bumblebee"
(from The Tale of the Tsar Saltan)
Music by Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov

"Wiegenlied (Lullaby)"
Music by Johannes Brahms

"Jaws (Theme)"
Music by John Williams

"The Murder from Psycho"
Music by Bernard Herrmann

"That's Amore"
Music by Harry Warren
Lyrics by Jack Brooks
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jochanaan on July 08, 2013, 03:51:12 PM
Just one more thing, sir.   Here is the music, I believe, used in the episode (from IMDB):


"1812 Overture"
Music by Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
No, not too many notes there, at least not if the cannoneers know what they're doing!
"Prélude in E minor, Op.28 No.4"
Music by Frédéric Chopin
Definitely not too many notes; hardly enough!  (And that's not disparagement; I love that Prelude even after thousands of hearings.)
"The Flight of the Bumblebee"
(from The Tale of the Tsar Saltan)
Music by Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
Now THAT's too many notes! ;D
"Wiegenlied (Lullaby)"
Music by Johannes Brahms
No, not too many notes here either; like Mozart's music, neither more nor fewer than required. 8)
"Jaws (Theme)"
Music by John Williams
Maybe a note or two in excess, but maybe not.
"The Murder from Psycho"
Music by Bernard Herrmann
Not too many notes here either.  In fact, that music could use a little variation. :o
"That's Amore"
Music by Harry Warren
Lyrics by Jack Brooks
Waaaay too many notes, since I feel that song should never have been written in the first place! :P ;D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 01, 2013, 02:16:23 PM
Now playing:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N6e9h8JUL._SX300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 03, 2013, 12:55:41 PM
Want to get into the western theme mode before taking in the Lone Ranger, so pulled this Riddle beauty off the shelf:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfVcFUCohOlok168p6H6T2FCtw246BBLLFy7CkSJshCW_ZPgwD)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: jut1972 on August 05, 2013, 12:41:05 PM
Waiting on The Lord of the Rings complete recordings box sets to be reissued...

Any word on these?

going very cheap from MP sellers on amazon uk :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0000TAZBK/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

even with shipping factored in it might be worth a look.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on August 05, 2013, 02:15:06 PM
going very cheap from MP sellers on amazon uk :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0000TAZBK/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

even with shipping factored in it might be worth a look.

Thanks, but I'm actually waiting on the complete sets.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on August 07, 2013, 06:40:09 AM
Thread duty:

Just took in this radio show that was a retrospective of George Duning's music.   Even had a Star Trek queue. :)

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/programs/movies/2013/jan/

And for you Howard Shore fans, catch this interview with the composer and some of his music from The Hobbit.  Pretty cool.

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/programs/movies/2012/dec/
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: kyjo on August 07, 2013, 06:52:17 AM
I really enjoy listening to film music every now and then. My favorite film composers are the usual suspects: John Williams, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer, John Barry, Erich Wolfgang Korngold, Miklos Rozsa, Max Steiner, Dmitri Tiomkin and Bernard Herrmann. My favorite soundtracks are all the Star Wars (Williams), the LOTR trilogy and The Hobbit (Shore), all the Pirates of the Carribean (Zimmer), Dances with Wolves (Barry), The Adventures of Robin Hood (Korngold) and Ben Hur (Rozsa).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on August 08, 2013, 06:48:01 PM
Everybody should try Schnittke's film music. Fantastic stuff! The Capriccio recordings w/ Strobel are excellent. I'm still waiting on the CPO recording to arrive. He was a natural in this medium.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on September 21, 2013, 07:10:48 AM
Been a fan of Daft Punk for years, and I loved their Tron: Legacy soundtrack, their style fit the film's visuals and pacing perfectly, was listening to Disc Wars and Outlands this morning...


http://www.youtube.com/v/EB2-ijxjTs0   http://www.youtube.com/v/k7D5Sy8XfJE
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ChamberNut on September 21, 2013, 07:24:58 AM
Been a fan of Daft Punk for years, and I loved their Tron: Legacy soundtrack, their style fit the film's visuals and pacing perfectly, was listening to Disc Wars and Outlands this morning...


http://www.youtube.com/v/EB2-ijxjTs0   http://www.youtube.com/v/k7D5Sy8XfJE

Interesting, Greg.  I have some of the original Tron 1980's film music, by Walter/Wendy Carlos.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on September 21, 2013, 07:44:14 AM
Interesting, Greg.  I have some of the original Tron 1980's film music, by Walter/Wendy Carlos.

Oh yeah! The original Tron is a childhood favorite of mine. You should checkout the sequel, it's fun.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Octave on October 29, 2013, 11:35:14 PM
Hans Zimmer is not a major favorite of mine, but perhaps some of you would be interested in this little article on some of his approaches to orchestrating film scores and otherwise coming up with textures:

How Does Hans Zimmer Keep His Film Scores Fresh? He Invents New Instruments
by Tim Greiving, LA WEEKLY, 20 Jun 13
http://www.laweekly.com/2013-06-20/film-tv/hans-zimmer-lone-ranger/ (http://www.laweekly.com/2013-06-20/film-tv/hans-zimmer-lone-ranger/)

Quote
For Man of Steel, composer Hans Zimmer gathered eight pedal steel guitars — those traditionally country music, twangy tabletop instruments — to form an unorthodox string ensemble, creating an entirely new sound. He was inspired by the image of telephone wires stretching across the prairie, and what the Kansas wind of Clark Kent's childhood home might sound like running along them. The effect is a sustained, shimmery texture, which Zimmer uses in the film's moments of reflection.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 09, 2013, 12:23:36 PM
Perfume: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack of Tom Tykwer's 2006 film.
Original music by Reinhold Heil, Johnny Klimek and Tom Tykwer

One of my favorite films, also a fantastic soundtrack performed by Simon Rattle and the Berliners. This track is titled "The Perfume".

http://www.youtube.com/v/B1fdV6OmEQg

"Meeting Laura"

http://www.youtube.com/v/FvEaVAAHLGI
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2013, 01:01:37 PM
Got this one spinning

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71D47NGjvfL.jpg)

The above is the cover I own.  I have gone back and forth trying to decide if I need a more complete version of each of the three, but for what they are asking, I rather buy scores I do not own.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2013, 01:59:09 PM
Rolling out an old favorite that was for a while out of print, but common sense prevailed and now it is available again:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511ysLBJ6iL._SY300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2013, 02:47:26 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41D1GNBC2TL.jpg)

The 60's clip music is fun, however, the charm of Choi's score is not to be missed.  Absolute sonic beauty on the silver screen.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 09, 2013, 02:59:58 PM
Got this one spinning

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71D47NGjvfL.jpg)

The above is the cover I own.  I have gone back and forth trying to decide if I need a more complete version of each of the three, but for what they are asking, I rather buy scores I do not own.

These are good scores, in fact Shore has done some great scores during his career, especially the Scorsese films he worked on.
I had all three of the LOTR soundtracks but was getting frustrated with going back and forth with all of them that I compiled my own "symphony" of all three films.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2013, 03:02:44 PM
These are good scores, in fact Shore has done some great scores during his career, especially the Scorsese films he worked on.
I had all three of the LOTR soundtracks but was getting frustrated with going back and forth with all of them that I compiled my own "symphony" of all three films.

I have not grabbed The Hobbit yet.  Should.  I love his Aviator score.  I am guessing you do as well.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 09, 2013, 03:10:17 PM
I have not grabbed The Hobbit yet.  Should.  I love his Aviator score.  I am guessing you do as well.

Yes! The Aviator is great, just like the film.
Add Nobody's Fool and several of his David Cronenberg scores to that "great" list.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2013, 03:26:03 PM
Enjoying this one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513KKcB9-HL._SY300_.jpg)

I remember them coming out with an expanded version of this score at one point.  Almost got it (love the music and the movie), but once again....stop the madness and cooler heads in this case prevailed.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2013, 03:32:28 PM
Just sampled Nobody's Fool.  It immediately reminded me of one of my favorite film composers, Rachel Portman.  Just added it to my wish list.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 10, 2013, 08:15:52 AM
This will do:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D5Z81TJXL._SX300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 10, 2013, 04:58:26 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/THE-AGONY-AND-THE-ECSTASY-soundtrack-T-2427-uk-capitol-rainbow-rim-LP-PS-EX-EX-/00/s/NDI0WDYwMA==/$(KGrHqFHJBME+OfkbgI9BP2znb!YW!~~60_12.JPG)

On mono vinyl, now taking in one of Alex North's three epic scores (Cleopatra and Spartacus being the other two).  I see this for sale often, but usually with the stereo tag.  It was re-released by Varese Sarabande Records in 2004 and included a cut for Jerry Goldsmith that did not make its way on to the original release.  The more I listen to North, the more I want to seek out other works of his.  Only won an honorary Oscar after 13 nominations....people have lost their minds.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 16, 2013, 12:23:22 PM
Some Desplat for a Saturday afternoon.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fPUMwc5oL._SY300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 16, 2013, 06:18:15 PM
More Rozsa!  This time from 1940.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QBW--jZnL._SX300_.jpg)

This is the recording re-recorded by Elmer Bernstein.  He did a number of these and the appeared on vinyl....I do not believe they made it to cd.

1978 REISSUE OF A 1977 PRIVATE FILM MUSIC LP VINYL RELEASE BY ELMER BERNSTEIN TO MEMBERS OF HIS FILM MUSIC CLUB. THIS PRESSING IS A NEWLY RECORDED VERSION OF MIKLOS ROZSA'S 1940 SCORE TO THE CLASSIC "THIEF OF BAGHDAD" WITH ELMER BERNSTEIN CONDUCTING THE ROYAL PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA WITH THE SALTARELLO CHOIR. A MASTERFUL PERFORMANCE OF A CLASSIC FILM SCORE! MUSIC COLLECTIBLE!

Hey, not a bad pick for a conductor to re-record these scores.  A wonderful score with vocals throughout.  Lush and beautiful....and not a lot of info on it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 17, 2013, 08:29:15 AM
I am also a fan of film scores; this is an interesting transcription for string quintet of some excellent film music:



Looks very intriguing. Wish listed, thanks for posting, SanA.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 17, 2013, 12:00:32 PM
Going back to this 1951 film noir score (Herrmann's only?). 

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/1b/85/67d1228348a0cd5ce0c72110.L.jpg)


Excellent Amazon review here:

From the 1st hammer blow on steel plate, "On Dangerous Ground" is gut-gripping music. If the movie it accompanies is an interesting, but very flawed film noir, the score is completely superlative. Some ideas have a familiar ring to Herrmann aficionados--the beginning of "Pastoral" uses a sinuous winding theme in the bass instruments that is developed by the composer in the later movie "North By Northwest", and there's a spinning figure in the strings in "Snowstorm" that makes an appearance in Hitchcock's "Vertigo". "Death Hunt" is the virtuosic highlight of this CD, with the manic braying of horns in an adrenaline pumping frenzy. The softer music has the melancoly yearning quality of "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir", but in spite of the echos and pre-echos of other Herrmann film scores, this one is treasurable in itself. This CD was taken from acetate discs and there is some surface noice--some of it intrusive, but its so good to have this film score complete, that I'm not complaining. I find the ear adjusts after a while, and the score is so consistently rich in ideas that it's the music you hear, not the noise.

In short, unmistakably Herrmann.  Just a matter of how many scores of his you want.  The correct answer?  As many as you can grab. ;D  This one's availability is drying up, so get one soon.  The FSM discs tend to go to the crazy price level if they become unavailable for a while.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 17, 2013, 01:34:29 PM
The original!

(http://www.filmmusicsite.com/images/covers/large/3341.jpg)

This music always sweeps me back to my childhood.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 25, 2013, 06:50:06 PM
Michael Danna is a fantastic score composer. His credits include The Ice Storm, The Sweet Hereafter, Little Miss Sunshine and most recently Life of Pi. My favorite score from Danna is without a doubt from Ang Lee's masterful film, The Ice Storm. Through perfect instrumentation and darkly hued melodies and harmonies, Danna conjures up the images of a tragic story told against the chilly backdrop of winter. Here is the hauntingly beautiful 9 minute piece that accompanies the final moments of the film. Highly recommended....

http://www.youtube.com/v/jUNXYVC_yWY
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on December 01, 2013, 01:11:05 AM
I recently saw the film 'Sarah's Key', one of the saddest I have seen, about the 1942 round up of Jews in Vichy France. I thought that the soundtrack, especially the closing titles was very affecting. I would recommend both the film/movie and the soundtrack by Max Richter:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 01, 2013, 06:32:24 AM
Have not heard any of his music.  Shutter Island would have been my best bet, but have not caught it yet.  Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ChamberNut on December 01, 2013, 06:35:58 AM
Have not heard any of his music.  Shutter Island would have been my best bet, but have not caught it yet.  Thanks for the tip.

Some great music in Shutter Island.  Effective use of Penderecki's 3rd Symphony, and I love the Mahler Piano Quartet, where Mark Ruffalo asks "This is nice, is this Brahms?"  :D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on December 01, 2013, 09:39:09 AM
I found the soundtrack on MOG and am listening to it now - beautiful.  Thanks for the tip.  Netflix does not have the movie available for streaming.

Delighted you like it.  :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on December 01, 2013, 10:04:47 AM
I recently saw the film 'Sarah's Key', one of the saddest I have seen, about the 1942 round up of Jews in Vichy France. I thought that the soundtrack, especially the closing titles was very affecting. I would recommend both the film/movie and the soundtrack by Max Richter:



Richer also wrote a great score for the animated film Waltz With Bashir.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on December 01, 2013, 01:18:27 PM
Richer also wrote a great score for the animated film Waltz With Bashir.

How interesting as I have the DVD but had not made the connection. Another extraordinary film.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 01, 2013, 07:32:22 PM
Now playing, and enjoying:

(http://www.filmmusicsite.com/images/covers/large/3240.jpg)

Where do you rank Basil Poledouris on your lists? 
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on December 04, 2013, 01:01:45 PM
Now playing, and enjoying:

(http://www.filmmusicsite.com/images/covers/large/3240.jpg)

Where do you rank Basil Poledouris on your lists?

I have that CD too. I rank Poledouris's score 'Conan the Barbarian' very highly. There is a new complete recording. As far as I'm concerned it ranks alongside Prokofiev's 'Alexander Nevsky' and I play the Conan music more often. It has a very powerful, hypnotically memorable quality to it. It was rated 'Pick of the Year' (1982) in the much lamented Gramophone Good CD Film Music Guide.



Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 08, 2013, 02:59:37 PM
I have that CD too. I rank Poledouris's score 'Conan the Barbarian' very highly. There is a new complete recording. As far as I'm concerned it ranks alongside Prokofiev's 'Alexander Nevsky' and I play the Conan music more often. It has a very powerful, hypnotically memorable quality to it. It was rated 'Pick of the Year' (1982) in the much lamented Gramophone Good CD Film Music Guide.

I have that new set of Conen on my wish list.  Neat that they found the original material.  Thread duty:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61TD2X6XZYL.jpg)

This Elfman effort took a bit to warm up to.  A lot of "Batman" sounding moments disguised with new percussion....but after a number of listens I am beginning to appreciate the whirlwind that Elfman created here.  A freshness evolves with each listen that keeps me coming back.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on December 10, 2013, 05:33:16 PM
One of my favorite pieces of music, Camille 's theme from JLG's film, Le Mepris (Contempt). Music by Georges Delerue.

https://www.youtube.com/v/arX8xf_p1vk

Generique...

https://www.youtube.com/v/kNL-Sh9sGno
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 15, 2013, 06:43:29 PM
Cool if you have a set....Walker (I believe she passed away) put together some wonderful dark themes here along with a splash of Elfman.  However, his influence his throughout.  Pricey goomer:$50 for two cds.  Guess after they sold out the first run they thought they could up the price.  The volume two is twice as much, but 4 discs.  This set is plenty for me.

(http://keithsbatblog.blog.com/files/2011/09/batman-the-animated-series-soundtrack-cd1.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2014, 07:05:42 AM
The recent death of the composer made me search out this CD which I had in my collection but never properly listened to before ( ::)). It was something of a revelation, hauntingly atmospheric (no pun intended) music, which I played through from beginning to end with much pleasure. Not only is the Dracula score gripping but all the other extracts, especially 'Death and the Maiden' were equally captivating - a great discovery for me which encouraged me to explore Kilar's non-movie scores on Naxos.


This and Max Richter's beautiful score for 'Sarah's Key' (see above) have been great recent discoveries for me.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: NJ Joe on January 19, 2014, 07:15:10 AM
The recent death of the composer made me search out this CD which I had in my collection but never properly listened to before ( ::)). It was something of a revelation, hauntingly atmospheric (no pun intended) music, which I played through from beginning to end with much pleasure. Not only is the Dracula score gripping but all the other extracts, especially 'Death and the Maiden' were equally captivating - a great discovery for me which encouraged me to explore Kilar's non-movie scores on Naxos.


This and Max Richter's beautiful score for 'Sarah's Key' (see above) have been great recent discoveries for me.

Agree about the Dracula score.  A few years ago I heard it being played on a classical radio program without knowing what it was, and really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2014, 07:16:59 AM
Agree about the Dracula score.  A few years ago I heard it being played on a classical radio program without knowing what it was, and really enjoyed it.

Thanks - and it is now on Naxos too.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: NJ Joe on January 19, 2014, 07:21:20 AM
Thanks - and it is now on Naxos too.



Thank you.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 20, 2014, 05:15:05 PM
In the mood for a bit of Bernstein....Elmer that is.

(http://eil.com/images/main/Elmer-Bernstein-The-Great-Escape-403499.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 03, 2014, 06:08:59 AM
This is my fave for film music.

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2014, 03:09:20 PM
This is my fave for film music.



Good one.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 04, 2014, 07:43:27 PM
A few tracks from Steven Price's now Oscar winning score to GRAVITY. I'm posting two tracks that I believe to be the two most crucial moments of the film, and Price's music hit the mark perfectly.

DEBRIS
http://www.youtube.com/v/-m43yB4yZg0

SHENZOU
http://www.youtube.com/v/MOm3MLT03eY
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 04, 2014, 07:52:16 PM
The track Shenzou from Gravity reminded me of a track from The Fountain, scored by Darren Aronofsky's longtime collaborator Clint Mansell. Here is the track Death is the Road to Awe that took place in the final minutes of the film. I'm hoping for a similar musical experience from Mansell in the upcoming film, Noah.

DEATH IS THE ROAD TO AWE
http://www.youtube.com/v/ihF_aXi-Huk
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 04, 2014, 08:04:14 PM
Hans Zimmer seems to get type casted into the big-budgeted action films these days, but his best music can be found elsewhere. Best example is from Malick's 1997 film The Thin Red Line. Best track is the serenely beautiful Light. Another highlight comes from the track titled Journey To The Line, a piece that builds to an incredible intensity then returns to a similar blissfulness heard in Light.  You might notice the middle section of Journey as it has been used in many film trailers.

LIGHT
http://www.youtube.com/v/qpz0WEEFR-I

JOURNEY TO THE LINE
http://www.youtube.com/v/HOFZSnz9J3s
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 04, 2014, 08:13:48 PM
I'll close with one of my favorites from film scores, or from anything for that matter.  ;D I would like to think of this as my own theme music, if I had one, following me around as I walked about...


http://www.youtube.com/v/nWqC6kRCLjI


Goodnight!!   8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 04, 2014, 08:55:08 PM
I'll close with one of my favorites from film scores, or from anything for that matter.  ;D I would like to think of this as my own theme music, if I had one, following me around as I walked about...


http://www.youtube.com/v/nWqC6kRCLjI


Goodnight!!   8)

  I don't have any Rota, but I know that track well, from seeing the movie so many times.  I may have to find myself a copy :)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on May 11, 2014, 09:42:12 AM
Two soundtracks this afternoon.  The first is from one of my favorite movies .  The cover is from the tv series, but I believe all the music is from the film.


(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa35/BillandLinda/IMG_1502_zpsae69b949.jpg)

and consists of Anton Karas playing his zither throughout

(http://www.waybackattack.com/images/photo-karasanton.jpg)
Theme from the Third Man Anton Karas, zither - YouTube (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8jN1treRKQ")

and this

(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa35/BillandLinda/IMG_1503_zpsfedc7fc2.jpg)

Not only do you get that Quincy Jones' sound along with some Ray Charles, but you have a couple vocal runs which include one from Glenn Campbell.  All in all, two excellent soundtracks with the first being one that may surprise you.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on June 21, 2014, 06:09:12 PM
This coming out on 180 gram vinyl:

(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/AALP_49__97725__05272014014934-4437.jpg)

DIG!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WQMZFFkx6Y
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: HIPster on June 27, 2014, 03:32:32 PM
Hans Zimmer seems to get type casted into the big-budgeted action films these days, but his best music can be found elsewhere. Best example is from Malick's 1997 film The Thin Red Line. Best track is the serenely beautiful Light. Another highlight comes from the track titled Journey To The Line, a piece that builds to an incredible intensity then returns to a similar blissfulness heard in Light.  You might notice the middle section of Journey as it has been used in many film trailers.

LIGHT
http://www.youtube.com/v/qpz0WEEFR-I

JOURNEY TO THE LINE
http://www.youtube.com/v/HOFZSnz9J3s

Wonderful post, Greg!

Among my favorite soundtracks.  Zimmer's best work imo, though I tend to like him more than most here it seems.  Also, I really like the Malick film quite a lot (what a cast!).

Currently enjoying the Suite For Richard by Howard Shore:



From amazon:

The music for a docudrama about actors portraying Richard III could be slavishly historical or irreverently high-camp. Here, Howard Shore joins the London Philharmonic Orchestra in taking the former route. There is a mixture of authentic Elizabethan strains with a general angst-ridden mood to capture the tension involved in Shakespeare's tragedy about the struggle for power and the death of a tyrant. Among the noteworthy features: The London Voices supplying a mixed chorus with phrases translated from the play and the film into Latin. There is also a cathedral organ recorded under the high vaulted ceilings of England's All Saints Church. This "medieval sound," while not action-specific, depends too much on the movie's visual reinforcement to be anything other than academic mush for initiated musicologists. --Joseph Lanza
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: ralfy on July 24, 2014, 12:50:28 AM
Wagner and Mozart in The New World:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_World_%282005_film%29#Soundtrack
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: torut on September 03, 2014, 10:38:54 AM
I love Badalamenti's music. In this album, there are some changes of arrangement from the originals, and 3 pieces not available in other soundtrack albums are included.

Music for Film and Television
Brussels Philharmonic - The Orchestra of Flanders, conducted by  Dirk Brossé

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: gutstrings on September 03, 2014, 06:12:23 PM
Recently re-discovered Mancini's  "Baby Elephant Walk" from the movie Hatari! One of those pop tunes everyone seems to recognize... really a brilliant composition.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on September 03, 2014, 06:25:52 PM
Recently re-discovered Mancini's  "Baby Elephant Walk" from the movie Hatari! One of those pop tunes everyone seems to recognize... really a brilliant composition.

Mancini's one of my favorites.  Love everything he tried.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: torut on September 03, 2014, 06:33:47 PM
Recently re-discovered Mancini's  "Baby Elephant Walk" from the movie Hatari! One of those pop tunes everyone seems to recognize... really a brilliant composition.
It's a lovely song. Recently, I've been listening to The Essential Henry Mancini repeatedly. He composed so many unforgettable songs: Pink Panther Theme, Days of Wine and Roses, Moon River, Mystery Movie Theme, Happy Barefoot Boy, etc. ...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: torut on September 17, 2014, 06:45:19 PM
Hans Zimmer is not a major favorite of mine, but perhaps some of you would be interested in this little article on some of his approaches to orchestrating film scores and otherwise coming up with textures:

How Does Hans Zimmer Keep His Film Scores Fresh? He Invents New Instruments
by Tim Greiving, LA WEEKLY, 20 Jun 13
http://www.laweekly.com/2013-06-20/film-tv/hans-zimmer-lone-ranger/ (http://www.laweekly.com/2013-06-20/film-tv/hans-zimmer-lone-ranger/)

The article didn't mention it, but Chas Smith's original instruments were used in Man of Steel soundtrack, according to this video. (I have not watched the movie.) I like Smith's music.

https://www.youtube.com/v/RSFMh0KKl9c
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2014, 01:37:56 PM
This is quite fun and makes a change from the usual stuff I listen to:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 25, 2014, 01:40:48 PM
This is quite fun and makes a change from the usual stuff I listen to:



That's interesting, I'll need to find that. Years ago I created my own LOTR: Symphony by pulling Shore's music from the trilogy. More of a suite I guess than a symphony since it contained about 16 movements. But it's great music, Shore is a great score composer. Going from Cronenberg to LOTR/Hobbit shows his range.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on October 26, 2014, 03:08:23 AM
That's interesting, I'll need to find that. Years ago I created my own LOTR: Symphony by pulling Shore's music from the trilogy. More of a suite I guess than a symphony since it contained about 16 movements. But it's great music, Shore is a great score composer. Going from Cronenberg to LOTR/Hobbit shows his range.

How interesting! This is a bit of a suite too but it hangs together well and contains my favourite bits such as the Mines of Moria section and The White Tree. I tend to prefer the darker sections rather than the slightly twee hobbity sections. It is before a live audience who clearly enjoyed it and I like the songs too. Thanks for replying  :).
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 26, 2014, 04:27:40 AM
I may have to check this one out, gents.  Did you both snag this when it came out?

(http://soundtracksfan.com/livescores/composers/hshore/covers/shore-dvd-lotr.jpg)

On a side note, revisited some Tiomkin this weekend:

(http://www.moviemusic.com/imgcover/285/alamo.gif)

and a newer effort from one of my favorite movie composers, Rachel Portman:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/735/MI0003735880.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on October 26, 2014, 09:37:07 AM
I may have to check this one out, gents.  Did you both snag this when it came out?

(http://soundtracksfan.com/livescores/composers/hshore/covers/shore-dvd-lotr.jpg)

On a side note, revisited some Tiomkin this weekend:

(http://www.moviemusic.com/imgcover/285/alamo.gif)

and a newer effort from one of my favorite movie composers, Rachel Portman:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/735/MI0003735880.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

No, never saw the Creating LOR feature - looks interesting.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 26, 2014, 03:14:10 PM
When the music is better than the movie....imo, of course. ;)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410BPH4XNKL.jpg)

I also have this copy as I read somewhere that Bernstein liked this performance better than his own

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/610mPxtrK9L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Either way, one of the classic western, for that matter, film scores of all time. 

Two pieces of trivia from IMDB

Bernstein replaced Dimitri Tiomkin.
John Williams plays the piano on the score.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on October 27, 2014, 07:30:46 AM
When the music is better than the movie....imo, of course. ;)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410BPH4XNKL.jpg)

+ 1000000000! Main theme of that movie is so incredibly catchy.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 27, 2014, 01:45:17 PM
I have never received that many points on one post. :D. Though I could easily say the same for your Dickens' reading posts.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on October 28, 2014, 04:11:05 AM
Though I could easily say the same for your Dickens' reading posts.

Oh my!  8) I guess the reason I write so much about Dickens is because he is one of those authors that annoys the hell out of you with the bad stuff yet you still want to read it because the stuff that is good is so unbeliavably good. So it affects me more than many other authors that have much more (unbelievably) good stuff and much less bad stuff (Dumas sr., Hugo, Dostoyevsky, Shakespeare, Stevenson, Tolkien, Goethe, Ibsen...).

Sorry about offtopic.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 28, 2014, 04:27:54 AM
Dadgummit, I need to get back to Pickwick . . . .
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on October 28, 2014, 04:45:59 AM
Dadgummit, I need to get back to Pickwick . . . .

You can't run away from it forever. :D And neither can I. I have never actually read it and after I've tackled Dombey I probably move on to it. I've avoided it probably because it is so fragmentary novel, barely a plot at all (not that it is always necessary, picaresque novel and all that). Although anything is better than Nickleby's plot. And I guess it's early installment weirdness, too different from his other novels (although difference can be refreshing, that's one of the reasons I like Barnaby so much)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 28, 2014, 04:49:12 AM
Thing is, I carry my Nook practically each day;  there's no good reason why I've neglected Pickwick.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 28, 2014, 05:29:09 PM
Let's bring this conversation full circle gents. Now playing:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/067/MI0001067657.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Another beautiful effort by Rachel Portman. 

Take a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ-Hyl3XH_Q
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on October 29, 2014, 09:22:51 AM
My favorite Dickens film music is from Muppet Christmas Carol. I like especially the there goes mr. Scrooge song. In fact, music in pretty much all other Dickens films/tv series is pretty forgettable to me (not that I've seen everyone).

There goes mr. Scrooge is so delightfully catchy and I really like the words. Michael Caine is perfect Scrooge. The muppet puppets fin in a way that one of Dickens's illustrators (Browne) called his characters basically puppets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzsKJvWiEI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzsKJvWiEI)

Btw, I really like the guy who plays Ralph in 2001 production of Nickleby.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on October 29, 2014, 06:16:48 PM
My favorite Dickens film music is from Muppet Christmas Carol. I like especially the there goes mr. Scrooge song. In fact, music in pretty much all other Dickens films/tv series is pretty forgettable to me (not that I've seen everyone).

There goes mr. Scrooge is so delightfully catchy and I really like the words. Michael Caine is perfect Scrooge. The muppet puppets fin in a way that one of Dickens's illustrators (Browne) called his characters basically puppets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzsKJvWiEI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzsKJvWiEI)

Btw, I really like the guy who plays Ralph in 2001 production of Nickleby.

It really was an outstanding cast.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309912/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#casthttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309912/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Ralph was the famous Christopher Plummer.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001626/?ref_=tt_cl_t10
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on October 30, 2014, 09:02:14 AM
Sorry, I meant 2001 production, not 2002 that you talked about. I guess I should have been more clear. Haven't actually seen that 2002 production that you talked aboutso can't say much about that. 2001 production the guy who acts Nicholas for some reason doesn't feel right. Not that he was very interesting character in the book either. But Charles Dance, the actor who plays Ralph, is perfect. His face, his sound, his acting style is exactly how I imagine Ralph. A man with that kind of face is perfect to portray villains. I remember seeing him in Alien 3.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001097/?ref_=tt_cl_t5
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 01, 2014, 09:26:24 AM
Pulling out what I consider to be one of the best sci-fi scores of all time. From 1968:

(http://img.soundtrackcollector.com/cd/large/Planet_of_the_apes_Varese_VSD_5848.jpg)

Allegedly, Jerry Goldsmith wore a gorilla mask while writing and conducting the score to "better get in touch with the movie." He also used a ram's horn in the process. The result was the first completely atonal score in a Hollywood movie.

Oy, Greg!

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0xWgHCSRESU/U4U_s_1i_oI/AAAAAAAAuuk/d9uAS4o4_qA/s1600/JGAPEMASK.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 01, 2014, 12:06:33 PM

Oy, Greg!

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0xWgHCSRESU/U4U_s_1i_oI/AAAAAAAAuuk/d9uAS4o4_qA/s1600/JGAPEMASK.jpg)

Follow my stinking baton, you damn, dirty ape!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on November 02, 2014, 04:02:41 PM
Schnittke wrote a lot of great film works. I encourage everyone on this thread who hasn't heard any of his film music to do so. Start with The Census List.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 02, 2014, 04:08:46 PM
(http://img.soundtrackcollector.com/cd/large/Alamo_CL1558.jpg)

Mono pressing.  Great soundtrack.  As fir the movie, see Movie thread.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2014, 05:05:12 PM
A bit from Steiner tonight from '39 :

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rsS%2BK15iL.jpg)

Does not exactly capture the west, but I am not too sure when western soundtracks had the flavor I have come to expect.  Of course the Oklahoma Kid serves as a nice backdrop for Cagney and Bogey to be at odds.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on November 09, 2014, 09:26:11 PM
I've really been enjoying Schnittke's film music tonight. Such an individual voice. Here's a list of the films that he composed music for:

-Adventures of a Dentist, film directed by Elem Klimov (1965, material reused in Suite in the Old Style)
-Commissar, film directed by Aleksandr Askoldov (1967, released 1988), based on one of Vasily Grossman's first short stories, "In the Town of Berdichev"
-The Glass Harmonica, animated film directed by Andrei Khrzhanovsky (1968, much material reused in Second Violin Sonata)
-Sport, Sport, Sport, film directed by Elem Klimov (1971)
-You and I, film directed by Larisa Shepitko (1971)
-Butterfly, animated film directed by Andrei Khrzhanovsky (1973)
-The Agony, two-part film directed by Elem Klimov (1974, main theme reused in the finale of the Second Cello Concerto)
-Little Tragedies, three-part TV film directed by Mikhail Schweitzer (1979)
-Ekipazh (Air Crew), film directed by Alexander Mitta (1979)
-Skazka Stranstviy (The Fairytale of the Voyages), film directed by Alexander Mitta (1982)
-Dead Souls, five-part TV miniseries directed by Mikhail Shveytser (1984)
-The Last Days of St. Petersburg (1992, new score for 1927 film, co-written with the composer's son Andrey)
-The Master and Margarita, film directed by Yuri Kara (1994)
-La mouette (fr), film directed by Youli Karassik (fr) (1972)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on November 09, 2014, 09:28:53 PM
I'd love to get more of Bernard Herrmann's film music. I'll have to double check my collection to see what I own, but does anyone recommend anything in particular that I should get? Psycho? The Snows of Kilimanjaro? North By Northwest?
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 09, 2014, 09:48:43 PM
I'd love to get more of Bernard Herrmann's film music. I'll have to double check my collection to see what I own, but does anyone recommend anything in particular that I should get? Psycho? The Snows of Kilimanjaro? North By Northwest?

Those are wonderful.  Others not to miss:
The Devil and Daniel Webster
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir
The Day the Earth Stood Still
Vertigo
Jason and the Argonauts

and one that does not usually come up:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X9jvjmAxL._SL500_.jpg)

and his own thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12882.0.html
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Mirror Image on November 09, 2014, 09:51:15 PM
Those are wonderful.  Others not to miss:
The Devil and Daniel Webster
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir
The Day the Earth Stood Still
Vertigo
Jason and the Argonauts

and one that does not usually come up:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X9jvjmAxL._SL500_.jpg)

and his own thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12882.0.html

Thanks for the suggestions, Bill. I'll check those out. 8)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: milk on November 09, 2014, 11:14:33 PM
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vd3P5HIEyAk/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on November 10, 2014, 02:59:16 AM
(http://img.soundtrackcollector.com/cd/large/Citizen_Kane_Herrmann_SSD1093.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 16, 2014, 06:12:44 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510%2Byva4QQL.jpg)

I am coming to find that it does not matter what one thinks of the film when Desplat waves his baton, though I remember liking this one a bit.  Another winner from this composer that might get a bit lost in his output....maybe not.  The soundtrack is OOP, but can be readily picked up for a low price, so grab one before they do disappear. 

Trivia from IMDB:
Nathan Larson, who had composed the score for the previous film in the series, The Deal (2003), had his score replaced by Alexandre Desplat after Stephen Frears found the first score not suitable. Desplat finished his score in three weeks.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on November 16, 2014, 07:04:06 AM
Those are wonderful.  Others not to miss:
The Devil and Daniel Webster
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir
The Day the Earth Stood Still
Vertigo
Jason and the Argonauts

and one that does not usually come up:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X9jvjmAxL._SL500_.jpg)

and his own thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12882.0.html

On Dangerous Ground is incredible!  The above CD is the original soundtrack, which unfortunately was not properly preserved.  Still, it is Herrmann conducting.  A new recording of the complete soundtrack would be nice. 

Check out the movie itself: not a bad film noir.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: milk on November 17, 2014, 02:20:47 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71pjjILqmHL._SL1200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 24, 2014, 05:20:07 PM
(http://77.239.105.175/images/prodimages/4011222218285.jpg)

Another classic Steiner score tonight from '51.  Have not seen this one in an age.  In fact, the plot escapes me.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 25, 2014, 04:53:31 AM
. . . In fact, the plot escapes me.

That could be a Mercy of Memory   0:)
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on November 25, 2014, 11:28:04 AM
That could be a Mercy of Memory   0:)

:D
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on December 23, 2014, 06:29:41 AM
A new movie called Mr. Turner about the English painter has a score by Gary Yershon, which has been favorably reviewed by the Wall Street Journal (as was the movie itself).

An excerpt:

Quote
What’s special about Gary Yershon’s score for the Mike Leigh film “Mr. Turner” is apparent from its opening moments. As the camera finds the artist J.M.W. Turner, sketchbook in hand in a sun-strewn field, a high whistling sound arrives and long, thoughtful tones bend as if intended to disorient gently. They are somehow icy and warm at the same time.

Those first notes emerge not from a synthesizer or a theremin, but from a sopranino saxophone. Soon other members of the saxophone family join in with their own languid lines: soprano, alto and tenor, in that order—not the customary saxophone quartet, which ranges upward to soprano from baritone. A string quartet enters, adding lithe heft to the environment as the reeds recede. The music isn’t intended to evoke the early- to mid-19th century in which the tale is set. (Adolphe Sax patented his namesake instrument in 1846, by which time Turner was in his 70s.) Nor is it particularly British, as was the landscape artist. Thus, a statement has been made: A complex, unexpected man, Turner is timeless.

 http://www.wsj.com/articles/modern-music-for-a-period-piece-1419292567?KEYWORDS=Turner (http://www.wsj.com/articles/modern-music-for-a-period-piece-1419292567?KEYWORDS=Turner)

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 23, 2014, 06:51:18 AM
A new movie called Mr. Turner about the English painter has a score by Gary Yershon, which has been favorably reviewed by the Wall Street Journal (as was the movie itself).

An excerpt:

 http://www.wsj.com/articles/modern-music-for-a-period-piece-1419292567?KEYWORDS=Turner (http://www.wsj.com/articles/modern-music-for-a-period-piece-1419292567?KEYWORDS=Turner)

What’s special about Gary Yershon’s score for the Mike Leigh film “Mr. Turner” is apparent from its opening moments. As the camera finds the artist

Might be this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzkETBix3WQ

I never heard of this composer until your post, Cato.  Based on what I am hearing, I might throw this one on the shelf.  Pretty dark and haunting.  Brought to mind this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz13T6pd_R0
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on December 23, 2014, 07:43:08 AM
Might be this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzkETBix3WQ

I never heard of this composer until your post, Cato.  Based on what I am hearing, I might throw this one on the shelf.  Pretty dark and haunting.  Brought to mind this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz13T6pd_R0

Many thanks for the link!

The movie is not yet playing here in the Sahara of the Bozart, but maybe one of the independent theaters will give it a chance.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 23, 2014, 08:26:10 AM
Many thanks for the link!

The movie is not yet playing here in the Sahara of the Bozart, but maybe one of the independent theaters will give it a chance.

Bottom line:  Film music is cool.  I have been going through my collection lately and re-enjoying many scores.  I want to start buying some more scores, so whenever you come a across a new gem please post it here, Cato.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 25, 2014, 05:45:27 AM
A VERY nice set of NPR stories on music and film that they rolled out this week:


http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=372526912&m=372526913


http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=372729084&m=372729117


http://www.npr.org/2014/12/24/372940367/director-john-carpenter-on-the-sound-of-a-terrifying-film

I will post the next shows when they are archived.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on December 25, 2014, 04:19:31 PM
Continues here:

http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=373128461&m=373128462
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Rons_talking on January 07, 2015, 02:49:44 AM
My favorite scores include:

Planet of the Apes (it must have been a composer's dream to score) by Jerry Goldsmith

The Ghost and Mrs. Muir by Bernard Herrman. It's really touching and makes the film shine.

Rebel Without a Cause by Alan Rosenmann. His scores are the most Schoenbergian of film composers. Creates that eery mood.

Psycho..need I say more?

The Natural. Randy Newman's best score. It makes the movie.

The Day the Earth Stood Still. Again Bernard Herrman

I'm not counting scores by concert music composers unless the film is a classic. Copland's Mice and Men and Our Town are excellent, but it's hard to find the films.

 The Ghost and Mrs. Muir is my favorite score...
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 07, 2015, 04:13:04 AM
My favorite scores include:

Planet of the Apes (it must have been a composer's dream to score) by Jerry Goldsmith

The Ghost and Mrs. Muir by Bernard Herrman. It's really touching and makes the film shine.

Rebel Without a Cause by Alan Rosenmann. His scores are the most Schoenbergian of film composers. Creates that eery mood.

Psycho..need I say more?

The Natural. Randy Newman's best Copland's score. It makes the movie.

The Day the Earth Stood Still. Again Bernard Herrman

I'm not counting scores by concert music composers unless the film is a classic. Copland's Mice and Men and Our Town are excellent, but it's hard to find the films.

 The Ghost and Mrs. Muir is my favorite score...

It says nothing about a restoration, but the price is not bad:



Some reviewers complain about the sound and picture quality, others do not:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 01:34:22 PM
My favorite scores include:

Planet of the Apes (it must have been a composer's dream to score) by Jerry Goldsmith

The Ghost and Mrs. Muir by Bernard Herrman. It's really touching and makes the film shine.

Rebel Without a Cause by Alan Rosenmann. His scores are the most Schoenbergian of film composers. Creates that eery mood.

Psycho..need I say more?

The Natural. Randy Newman's best Copland's score. It makes the movie.

The Day the Earth Stood Still. Again Bernard Herrman

I'm not counting scores by concert music composers unless the film is a classic. Copland's Mice and Men and Our Town are excellent, but it's hard to find the films.

 The Ghost and Mrs. Muir is my favorite score...

Very much agree with you, especially in relation to 'The Ghost and Mrs Muir', a wonderfully haunting ( no pun intended) score + the original Planet of the Apes by Jerry Goldsmith.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 01:37:02 PM
Been enjoying this during my long car journey to work having watched the film on TV over Christmas:

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 08, 2015, 03:55:34 PM
Been enjoying this during my long car journey to work having watched the film on TV over Christmas:



No doubt.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 10, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
Been enjoying this during my long car journey to work having watched the film on TV over Christmas:



Miklos Rosza was one of the greats: I used to hang onto an FM radio with a 3-inch speaker on Sunday mornings hoping that a certain station, which played music from Biblical movies at that time, would play something from Ben-Hur or King of Kings, etc.  They also played things from El Cid (not Biblical, but "religious" in a way).

Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 11, 2015, 04:51:14 AM
Yesterday we watched Bullitt with the famous chase scene through San Francisco.

My wife says at a few points: "Oh, that hokey music from the '60's!"

Lalo Schifrin was responsible: to be sure, one scene includes jazzy   8)   flute music   8)   being played in a coffee shop  8)  and it is fairly hokey!

On the other hand, jazzy flute music could just be an acquired taste!  And at times I thought the score held up after c. 47 years fairly well.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Bogey on January 11, 2015, 06:17:24 AM
Yesterday we watched Bullitt with the famous chase scene through San Francisco.

My wife says at a few points: "Oh, that hokey music from the '60's!"

Lalo Schifrin was responsible: to be sure, one scene includes jazzy   8)   flute music   8)   being played in a coffee shop  8)  and it is fairly hokey!

On the other hand, jazzy flute music could just be an acquired taste!  And at times I thought the score held up after c. 47 years fairly well.

Let her know that that score was popular enough for them to re-release it on vinyl, which then quickly sold out. ;D

http://www.amazon.com/Bullitt-200-gram-Limited-Numbered-Download/dp/B00JWWB6WI/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420985740&sr=1-3&keywords=bullitt

PS I am still considering it. Just not sure which format I want.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2015, 06:16:06 AM
Yesterday we watched Bullitt with the famous chase scene through San Francisco.

My wife says at a few points: "Oh, that hokey music from the '60's!"

Lalo Schifrin was responsible: to be sure, one scene includes jazzy   8)   flute music   8)   being played in a coffee shop  8)  and it is fairly hokey!

On the other hand, jazzy flute music could just be an acquired taste!  And at times I thought the score held up after c. 47 years fairly well.

There was a Schifrin score which was a fine asset to a Night Gallery episode . . . now, do I remember which one? . . .
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2015, 06:16:55 AM
I think it may have been “The Ghost of Sorworth Place.”  Will check . . . .
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 12, 2015, 06:46:30 AM
It might not be supererogatory to point out that Schifrin composed the title music for the Mission: Impossible series, which music I believe still appears in the movies, much like the James Bond theme by John Barry.
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2015, 06:48:56 AM
Yes, his music has become a pop culture keyword!
Title: Re: Film (movie) Music
Post by: Cato on January 12, 2015, 07:35:27 AM
There was a Schifrin score which was a fine asset to a Night Gallery episode . . . now, do I remember which one? . . .

I think it may have been “The Ghost of Sorworth Place.”  Will check . . . .

IMDB lists nothing for Night Gallery, so either my eyes have deceived me (always possible these days), or you have found a gap in their data!
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