Coronavirus thread

[SimonNZ]

"Can we figure out how to be kind to one another" has been entirely the point of the recent discussion.

[greg]

That's what the nincompoops who refused to have their children vaccinated against measles were saying, I expect. Result: measles outbreaks in the 21st century.

So how do you arrive at the "expert opinion" that you don't need the vaccine?

English suck sometimes... do you mean me specifically, or people in general? Habla español?- se or yo? lol

It needs to be an individual's decision. I was not offered consent (threat of termination of employment doesn't fit under consent) for an irreversible medical procedure, which no one has any idea of the long-term effects of yet. I don't think there will be any, but why even risk it? Because my odds of getting Covid are low, and even in the unlikely scenario that I do, my odds of dying are super low considering my good health.

For most people, they should get it. Their situation is different from mine. But I would never force them to if I were in power. The worst part is just not being able to make your own choice for your own body. You wanna talk about feeling disempowered, that will do it.

That's what the nincompoops who refused to have their children vaccinated against measles were saying, I expect. Result: measles outbreaks in the 21st century.

Children are naturally superspreaders, they can't avoid getting in people's faces. This doesn't quite relate to what I'm talking about, which is grownups that have the same lifestyle as me.

[SimonNZ]

English suck sometimes... do you mean me specifically, or people in general? Habla español?- se or yo? lol

I don't think there will be any, but why even risk it? Because my odds of getting Covid are low, and even in the unlikely scenario that I do, my odds of dying are super low considering my good health.

You. Can. Still. Pass. It. On. To. Others. Who. may. Get. Very. Sick. Or. Die. Because. Of. Your. Selfish. Decision.

This. Is. Not. Just. About. You.

[Mandryka]

Austria decides to make vaccination obligatory from Feb.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/world-news/austria-lockdown-vaccine-mandatory-law-22211740

[Florestan]

Austria decides to make vaccination obligatory from Feb.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/world-news/austria-lockdown-vaccine-mandatory-law-22211740

https://unherd.com/2021/11/inside-the-austrian-lockdown/

https://frenchdailynews.com/politics/3592-austria-rises-up-against-health-dictatorship

[Mandryka]

I wonder what they plan to do with those who decline the vaccine after February.

The French news broadcast where I first heard about this liberticide move said that they claimed they had to do it because they have only vaccinated about 65% of the population. Is that right? And how is that vaccination distributed with respect to age and vulnerability?

I ask because in the Uk we have only a slightly higher rate than that, but we have a society free of restrictions and the situation is handleable and in fact seems to be stable, possibly getting better, in terms of prevalence. But we were very careful to prioritise vaccinations to older age groups.

[The new erato]

I was not offered consent (threat of termination of employment doesn't fit under consent) for an irreversible medical procedure, which no one has any idea of the long-term effects of yet.

In the long term you and we all will die. And somebody will surely blame it in long term effects of the vaccine, even after 20 years.

[BasilValentine]

Why don't I force you to do something that you personally don't need to do, and threaten to take away your job that you've invested years in? Grow up! We are trying to have a hive mind civilization.

But seriously, I've wondered about the mentality of people that are totally fine with mandates and don't understand the pushback at all. My current guess is perhaps they've kissed ass their entire lives so much that they are desensitized to it and don't understand why others would have any qualms about doing the same.

You mean the hive mind that eliminated small pox from the planet? That cornered polio into a last stand in Pakistan? The one where everyone in their right mind has their children vaccinated against multiple diseases so they can go to school? The hive that listens to disinterested scientists offering objective evidence about a health crisis? I think you should be glad you've taken a reasonable step to protect your coworkers and others, even if you felt forced into it.   

[Spotted Horses]

I wonder what they plan to do with those who decline the vaccine after February.

The French news broadcast where I first heard about this liberticide move said that they claimed they had to do it because they have only vaccinated about 65% of the population. Is that right? And how is that vaccination distributed with respect to age and vulnerability?

I ask because in the Uk we have only a slightly higher rate than that, but we have a society free of restrictions and the situation is handleable and in fact seems to be stable, possibly getting better, in terms of prevalence. But we were very careful to prioritise vaccinations to older age groups.

You seem to have the have the word "liberticide" stuck in your head. I hope you will consider letting go of this inflammatory term. No one is being put under restrictions that can't be immediately lifted by getting a vaccine which is widely available, free, has been thoroughly tested and proven safe, although its long-term effectiveness is unclear. Even in countries which have "liberty" citizens lose their liberty (are put in prison or worse) for conduct that endangers or harms others.

[Spotted Horses]

The vaccine "booster" is perhaps a poor description of the third dose. New data seems to indicate that a third dose after 6 months produces immunity that is stronger and more stable than the initial pair of doses 4 weeks apart.



This is not unusual. For vaccines given in childhood a second dose months or even years after the initial dose is proscribed for many vaccines.

This is what was missed from the prioritized release of the vaccines. They did not have time to establish the most effective dosing schedule.

[71 dB]

The vaccine "booster" is perhaps a poor description of the third dose. New data seems to indicate that a third dose after 6 months produces immunity that is stronger and more stable than the initial pair of doses 4 weeks apart.



This is not unusual. For vaccines given in childhood a second dose months or even years after the initial dose is proscribed for many vaccines.

This is what was missed from the prioritized release of the vaccines. They did not have time to establish the most effective dosing schedule.

The gap between doses 1 and 2 in this chart is actually 8 weeks. For me it was 12 weeks (Pfizer). Apparently those who got Astra-Zeneca vaccine will really benefit from dose 3. In Finland they are giving booster shots to those over 65 and what happens with people younger than that is to be seen. I has been almost 4 months from my dose 2.

[Mandryka]

The vaccine "booster" is perhaps a poor description of the third dose. New data seems to indicate that a third dose after 6 months produces immunity that is stronger and more stable than the initial pair of doses 4 weeks apart.



This is not unusual. For vaccines given in childhood a second dose months or even years after the initial dose is proscribed for many vaccines.

This is what was missed from the prioritized release of the vaccines. They did not have time to establish the most effective dosing schedule.

Can you give me a reference to this interesting find? If it turns out to be  three doses for lifetime protection (I think there is a vaccine like that) then that would be really good news.

[Mandryka]

You seem to have the have the word "liberticide" stuck in your head. I hope you will consider letting go of this inflammatory term. No one is being put under restrictions that can't be immediately lifted by getting a vaccine which is widely available, free, has been thoroughly tested and proven safe, although its long-term effectiveness is unclear. Even in countries which have "liberty" citizens lose their liberty (are put in prison or worse) for conduct that endangers or harms others.

To be frank, I think it's really important not to shy away from the political consequences of the epidemic -- people who weald power and influence aren't. I am someone who believes that the more woke we are, the better.

 

[Spotted Horses]

To be frank, I think it's really important not to shy away from the political consequences of the epidemic -- people who weald power and influence aren't. I am someone who believes that the more woke we are, the better.

I am not primarily concerned with public health officials having too much power. I am concerned with the transfer of wealth to the billionaire class. This includes amazon taking over the entire economy, the fact that Moderna is attempting to patent the mRNA vaccine as sole inventor when NIH scientists designed the core of the vaccine, the general decimation of small and medium size business at the expense of huge corporations, etc..

[Florestan]

 

I am concerned with the transfer of wealth to the billionaire class. This includes amazon taking over the entire economy, the fact that Moderna is attempting to patent the mRNA vaccine as sole inventor when NIH scientists designed the core of the vaccine, the general decimation of small and medium size business at the expense of huge corporations, etc..

A phenomenon which had started long  before Covid but which got astronomic proportions precisely because lockdowns and restrictions. It's exactly the billionaires and the huge corporations that have been the beneficiaries of this crisis.

Three quarters of America's 722 billionaires are as rich, or richer, than they were before the pandemic—some by billions, tens of billions, or even more than one hundred billion dollars.

Billionaires aren't just richer since the pandemic began, there are also more of them. A record 493 new faces joined Forbes' World's Billionaires list this year—roughly one new billionaire every 17 hours between March 2020 and March 2021—including 98 newcomers from the U.S.

RTWTH: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2021/04/30/american-billionaires-have-gotten-12-trillion-richer-during-the-pandemic/?sh=bcc87c3f557e

[Mandryka]

If this is right there's a potential serious problem brewing in the UK

[Florestan]

Injuries reported after Dutch police fire warning shots during Rotterdam protest over Covid-19 measures

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/19/europe/police-fire-warning-shots-rotterdam-intl/index.html

Rotterdam police open fire as Covid protest turns violent

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/the-netherlands-rotterdam-police-open-fire-as-covid-protest-turns-violent

[Que]

Injuries reported after Dutch police fire warning shots during Rotterdam protest over Covid-19 measures

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/19/europe/police-fire-warning-shots-rotterdam-intl/index.html

Rotterdam police open fire as Covid protest turns violent

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/the-netherlands-rotterdam-police-open-fire-as-covid-protest-turns-violent

In all honesty, I can't blame this on anti vaxxers... These are mostly hooligans

Though there is some connection: a lot of poorly educated, disenfranchised youngsters refuse to be vaccinated - just because the government tells them that they should...

[MusicTurner]

It's a well-known pattern.

[Florestan]

These are mostly hooligans

I haven't been there so I can't comment. Your being Dutch, possibly even an eyewitness, puts you in a much better position to know. I can't help noticing, though, that in December 1989, after anti-Communist protests and riots broke out in the city of Timișoara and the police and the military opened fire, injuring and killing hundreds,  Ceaușescu appeared on TV and announced that hooligans devastated the city.