The unimportant news thread

[drogulus]

    The Sony A95L QD-OLED won the 2023 TV shootout held by the TV saints at Value Electronics.

    I'm not surprised. Thing is, the smallest QD-OLED panel is 55" and the ideal size for me is 48-50". None of the manufacturers produce their premium level sets at my preferred size.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

US Senate unanimously votes to reinstate dress code.



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[DavidW]

The Sony A95L QD-OLED won the 2023 TV shootout held by the TV saints at Value Electronics.

    I'm not surprised. Thing is, the smallest QD-OLED panel is 55" and the ideal size for me is 48-50". None of the manufacturers produce their premium level sets at my preferred size.

The problem for me is the Sony tax and lack of features.  For normal oleds, LG makes the panel that Sony uses.  With their own video processing and tuning they are slightly more accurate out of the box which translates into winning awards but paying $1k+ more is not worth it to the consumer. (fyi lack of features is hdmi 2.1 ports and specific gaming settings and vrr)

As for qd oled, Sony is using Samsung's panel.  But again there is still this ridiculous Sony tax.  My problem with qd oled is that being such a new technology and pushing that peak brightness so high it is not clear if burn in will be an issue.  But a mature LG woled while lacking the color saturation on hdr specular highlights will not burn in.  Early adopters got burned, but latecomers are fine.

I can't imagine a world in which it is worth spending the extra money on a flagship Sony oled (unless you're Harry!).  Even calibrating my sets to dE less than 1.0 on all grayscale steps, primaries and secondaries the difference is subtle.  Some consumers will pay $$$$ and then use normal mode, throwing away what they paid for!

This is really not new.  Back in the day there was a Pioneer Kuro tax.  But it would have been really hard for non-professionals to differentiate a Pioneer from a high end Panasonic.

[drogulus]

The problem for me is the Sony tax and lack of features.  For normal oleds, LG makes the panel that Sony uses.  With their own video processing and tuning they are slightly more accurate out of the box which translates into winning awards but paying $1k+ more is not worth it to the consumer. (fyi lack of features is hdmi 2.1 ports and specific gaming settings and vrr)

As for qd oled, Sony is using Samsung's panel.  But again there is still this ridiculous Sony tax.  My problem with qd oled is that being such a new technology and pushing that peak brightness so high it is not clear if burn in will be an issue.  But a mature LG woled while lacking the color saturation on hdr specular highlights will not burn in.  Early adopters got burned, but latecomers are fine.

I can't imagine a world in which it is worth spending the extra money on a flagship Sony oled (unless you're Harry!).  Even calibrating my sets to dE less than 1.0 on all grayscale steps, primaries and secondaries the difference is subtle.  Some consumers will pay $$$$ and then use normal mode, throwing away what they paid for!

This is really not new.  Back in the day there was a Pioneer Kuro tax.  But it would have been really hard for non-professionals to differentiate a Pioneer from a high end Panasonic.

    I don't give a damn about the Sony tax. I set up my TV to watch movies from gigafiles then take the consequences for other content. Usually with Sony this involves plugging it in and turning it on. They are the OOB champions. The most common adjustment I make is for the occasional movie that's too dark. Then I'm done.

[DavidW]

I don't give a damn about the Sony tax. I set up my TV to watch movies from gigafiles then take the consequences for other content. Usually with Sony this involves plugging it in and turning it on. They are the OOB champions. The most common adjustment I make is for the occasional movie that's too dark. Then I'm done.

Okay but that has nothing to do with the tv shootout which is only comparing picture quality.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Pardon, but what do you mean about "the Sony tax"?  And what is "oleds"?

PD

[AnotherSpin]

The problem for me is the Sony tax and lack of features.  For normal oleds, LG makes the panel that Sony uses.  With their own video processing and tuning they are slightly more accurate out of the box which translates into winning awards but paying $1k+ more is not worth it to the consumer. (fyi lack of features is hdmi 2.1 ports and specific gaming settings and vrr)

As for qd oled, Sony is using Samsung's panel.  But again there is still this ridiculous Sony tax.  My problem with qd oled is that being such a new technology and pushing that peak brightness so high it is not clear if burn in will be an issue.  But a mature LG woled while lacking the color saturation on hdr specular highlights will not burn in.  Early adopters got burned, but latecomers are fine.

I can't imagine a world in which it is worth spending the extra money on a flagship Sony oled (unless you're Harry!).  Even calibrating my sets to dE less than 1.0 on all grayscale steps, primaries and secondaries the difference is subtle.  Some consumers will pay $$$$ and then use normal mode, throwing away what they paid for!

This is really not new.  Back in the day there was a Pioneer Kuro tax.  But it would have been really hard for non-professionals to differentiate a Pioneer from a high end Panasonic.

I have a big screen Sony (have no idea what model) for about 15 years. I use it as a monitor for my mac mini, watching films too. I think the picture quality is great and it hasn't gotten worse over the years. Black colour and motion reproduction is very natural. Anyway, it degrades slower than my eyesight. If I will buy a new tv, Sony would be at the top of the list.

[Spotted Horses]

Pardon, but what do you mean about "the Sony tax"?  And what is "oleds"?

PD

I believe that the "Sony tax" refers to the fact that their unit costs more than a unit sold by another brand using a similar or identical display panel. In the past I've found it worth paying because Sony produces a well engineered product which may have less support for user tweaking, but which requires less user tweaking. "OLED" is a fancy display technology (organic light emitting diode). I could say a little more than that, but only what I read on wikipedia, and they say it better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED

[Todd]

Man known for duping sexual predators online killed in confrontation

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[DavidW]

I have a big screen Sony (have no idea what model) for about 15 years. I use it as a monitor for my mac mini, watching films too. I think the picture quality is great and it hasn't gotten worse over the years. Black colour and motion reproduction is very natural. Anyway, it degrades slower than my eyesight. If I will buy a new tv, Sony would be at the top of the list.

I also have a Sony tv (an lcd) and love it.  But I couldn't justify the huge markup when I bought an oled.  I didn't see why it had to be half again the cost.

[DavidW]

Pardon, but what do you mean about "the Sony tax"?  And what is "oleds"?

PD

PD to add to what Spotted Horses said oleds can render perfect blacks because individual pixels can turn off.  This is something that other flat panels (lcds and plasmas) could not do.  It results in not just better contrast, but richer colors and a more detailed image.  Oleds also have much better motion resolution than lcds and plasmas.

[drogulus]

Okay but that has nothing to do with the tv shootout which is only comparing picture quality.

    I was responding to what you wrote. The relevance of PQ for me is not only quality compared to rivals but quality out of the box. I find that skin tones look right with no adjustment for color at all, so I only need to adjust for brightness/contrast. This is the Donnie Darko test, using a scene in that film which is very dark as the torture test case.

    The shootout result confirms that all of the models I consider up to the top one are suitable for me. This includes the x90l, a90k, a80l and a95l. The questions left to be decided are 1) do I want an OLED and 2) am I willing to go up to 55".

[Pohjolas Daughter]

PD to add to what Spotted Horses said oleds can render perfect blacks because individual pixels can turn off.  This is something that other flat panels (lcds and plasmas) could not do.  It results in not just better contrast, but richer colors and a more detailed image.  Oleds also have much better motion resolution than lcds and plasmas.

Cool!

PD

[drogulus]

Cool!

PD

    One thing I look for in reviews of OLED sets is if they crush near black detail. Because Sony has outstanding processing they tend to perform well in this regard. If you are a movie-centric viewer like me this is an important consideration.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

@drogulus  I don't know if you were a Game of Thrones fan?  If so, do you remember all of the flack that they received for "The Battle of Winterfell" episode?  It so darkly lit that it was hard making out what was going on.  Wonder how that would have looked on one of these t.v.s?

PD

[drogulus]

@drogulus  I don't know if you were a Game of Thrones fan?  If so, do you remember all of the flack that they received for "The Battle of Winterfell" episode?  It so darkly lit that it was hard making out what was going on.  Wonder how that would have looked on one of these t.v.s?

PD

     Pretty much any TV can be adjusted for dark scenes. What high quality TVs do is let you solve the dark scene problem without messing up everything else. I did the Darko adjustment on my Sony 900e without harming PQ in brighter scenes.

[DavidW]

One thing I look for in reviews of OLED sets is if they crush near black detail. Because Sony has outstanding processing they tend to perform well in this regard. If you are a movie-centric viewer like me this is an important consideration.

The near black crush was mostly fixed years ago.  It was used to hide bad posterization, and both LG and Sony had that problem because it was inherent in the technology.

The current award winning Sony qd oled model has purple tint and elevated blacks due to a problem with the qd oled technology.  Video processing can't defeat problems with the panel itself.

[DavidW]

@drogulus  I don't know if you were a Game of Thrones fan?  If so, do you remember all of the flack that they received for "The Battle of Winterfell" episode?  It so darkly lit that it was hard making out what was going on.  Wonder how that would have looked on one of these t.v.s?

PD

That has a very dark HDR color grading.  Even Dolby Vision bright/day can't fix that, you need to watch it in a completely dark room.  Funny enough those that watched it in SDR had much less of a headache.  Modern oleds (at least from the premium brands) can fully resolve the detail in the scene.

Many tv reviews use that episode as a torture test for tvs.  Both Oleds and premium fald leds can usually resolve the details in the scene, and midrange and entry level tvs struggle.  Funny enough I'm sure in sdr mode just about any tv could handle it.

[DavidW]

I was responding to what you wrote. The relevance of PQ for me is not only quality compared to rivals but quality out of the box. I find that skin tones look right with no adjustment for color at all, so I only need to adjust for brightness/contrast. This is the Donnie Darko test, using a scene in that film which is very dark as the torture test case.

Okay but I wouldn't change contrast if I were you.  Moving it up might cause rgb clipping, which you can only ascertain immediately if you have the appropriate test pattern or a meter and software.

[drogulus]

Okay but I wouldn't change contrast if I were you.  Moving it up might cause rgb clipping, which you can only ascertain immediately if you have the appropriate test pattern or a meter and software.

     I find that Sony Standard mode gives you a solution to the Darko dilemma without causing any bad stuff.

     I might decide to go with the x90l. which is a FALD LED with not many zones. It has surprised reviewers with how well it fares despite this.