The Worst First!

[JBS]

Such exaggerated typography is most unlike you. I hope I have always turned a sympathetic ear to fellow listeners who suffer from Opus Fatigue. E.g. our esteemed @Florestan hopes never to hear the Beethoven Seventh again. I don't mind both celebrating his liberty to shun the piece, and indicating that I find it richly rewarding still. I've said that I love the Firsts of both Prokofiev and Brahms. If @vandermolen or @Florestan feel that I have somehow tarred them as ignorami I pray they will give me the opportunity to sue for pardon.

Oh-oh-
I was satirizing/criticizing B1's reputation and how it is often presented to those who are new to classical music. The Big Letters were meant to signal the satiric intent.
Obviously I flubbed up.

I didn't mean anyone here was ignorant or that anyone here thinks others are ignorant.
Truth to tell I'm not so keen on Brahm's symphonies.

[Karl Henning]

Oh-oh-
I was satirizing/criticizing B1's reputation and how it is often presented to those who are new to classical music. The Big Letters were meant to signal the satiric intent.
Obviously I flubbed up.

I didn't mean anyone here was ignorant or that anyone here thinks others are ignorant.
Truth to tell I'm not so keen on Brahm's symphonies.

No worries. I ought to have guessed I was misreading you.

[NumberSix]

Oh-oh-
I was satirizing/criticizing B1's reputation and how it is often presented to those who are new to classical music. The Big Letters were meant to signal the satiric intent.
Obviously I flubbed up.

I didn't mean anyone here was ignorant or that anyone here thinks others are ignorant.
Truth to tell I'm not so keen on Brahm's symphonies.

No worries. I ought to have guessed I was misreading you.

Such a nice grown-up interaction. Well done! 

[Florestan]

Such exaggerated typography is most unlike you. I hope I have always turned a sympathetic ear to fellow listeners who suffer from Opus Fatigue. E.g. our esteemed @Florestan hopes never to hear the Beethoven Seventh again. I don't mind both celebrating his liberty to shun the piece, and indicating that I find it richly rewarding still. I've said that I love the Firsts of both Prokofiev and Brahms. If @vandermolen or @Florestan feel that I have somehow tarred them as ignorami I pray they will give me the opportunity to sue for pardon.

Too late, Karl, my complaint is already filed, you should receive a subpoena soon.      

[Iota]

I think it suffers from its fame, and that it's the sort of thing that is pushed at people (including kids) who are new to classical music

So we end up with

It's by A GREAT COMPOSER
And it's a GREAT SYMPHONY
So of course YOU MUST BE IN AWE OF IT OR YOU'RE AN IGNORAMUS WHO CLEARLY HAS NO TASTE IN MUSIC

Hopefully most people are able to get past the trauma and realize they're allowed to be bored by it or decide there's other music they like better--or decide they like it because it's a good piece of music and not because people tell them they should like it.

Yes, couldn't agree more. Nothing more likely to put anybody off anything than such an ignorant, pontificating attitude.

[DavidW]

Oh-oh-
I was satirizing/criticizing B1's reputation and how it is often presented to those who are new to classical music.

I feel this is a strawman. I've never met anyone who tried to shove Brahms' first symphony down my throat.

I don't even know where all your resentment comes from. The only way that the Brahms' first suffers from its fame is just like every Romantic era warhorse, it is overperformed in concert.

[André]

The "Study Symphony" isn't a bad symphony. I rather like it: in fact I think it (and the "Nullte") are better than the symphonies that are officially the First and Second.

Of course I'm not that keen on Bruckner, so perhaps the fact that they aren't the sort of music we typically associate with Bruckner is a good thing.

My candidate for worst First is Beethoven's: perhaps not the worst but definitely the least interesting of his symphonies.
The only recording I've ever heard that made me interested in the First was Trevino.

Trevino was famous for his baton technique. I'm not sure about his abilities as a brucknerian though...

[JBS]

Trevino was famous for his baton technique. I'm not sure about his abilities as a brucknerian though...

😂

I do always connect him with that name. But just to clear, this is the one I meant

[NumberSix]

Isn't the bass player for Metallica also called Robert Trevino? 

[André]

😂

I do always connect him with that name. But just to clear, this is the one I meant

Yeah, I guess their swing don't exactly compare 🤪

And sorry, I thought you were referring to his Bruckner, not his Beethoven.

[JBS]

Yeah, I guess their swing don't exactly compare 🤪

And sorry, I thought you were referring to his Bruckner, not his Beethoven.

I don't think he's recorded any Bruckner.
As for Bruckner 1--the only one I've ever truly liked in that (and Bruckner 2 for that matter)--is Karajan.

[vandermolen]

Gottschalk: Symphony No.1 'A Night in the Tropics'
Such expectations - such disappointment.
At least it sounds like a Marx Bros movie 

[KevinP]

You know what this thread needs?

Sequels.

The trouble is what to name them. 'The Worst First' is nice and snazzy.
The Sloppiest Seconds?
The Third-ratest Thirds?
The Unworthy Fourthies?
Fifths that Missed?
Sixths and Stones that Break your Bones?

[pjme]

...and what about composers who only wrote one symphony! 

[Cato]

*straps on helmet*

Brian's Gothic. Bleh.

 

I've got to applaud your bravery!

I have tried several times to stay interested in Mr. Brian's Symphony #1, but...I failed!   

This week especially: Mendelssohn's Walpurgisnacht !

[Florestan]

I feel this is a strawman. I've never met anyone who tried to shove Brahms' first symphony down my throat.

But how many times have you heard, or read, that Brahms is one of the greatest composers who ever lived and his music is among the greatest ever penned? Now, If you or JBS or I heard or read this today, we'd take it for what it is and move on; imagine, though, that a young person without much experience hear or read it and then, upon listening to Brahms' First for the first time, is unimpressed or they downright dislike it. Would they not experience a cognitive dissonance because they are allegedly unable to understand a masterpiece created by a genius? 

This is actually valid for any canonical composer. X was a genius ergo their music is transcendental ergo there's something wrong with whoever doesn't get/like/love it because no person of superior intelligence and good taste could not get/like/love it.

I agree that such snobbery is mostly absent from GMG but in the world at large (of which GMG is conspicuously unrepresentative) it's the mainstream school of thought.

The only way that the Brahms' first suffers from its fame is just like every Romantic era warhorse, it is overperformed in concert.

I don't know. Tchaikovsky's PC1 is also an overplayed warhorse, perhaps even more overplayed than Brahms' First, yet I never tire of it.

[Karl Henning]

I don't know. Tchaikovsky's PC1 is also an overplayed warhorse, perhaps even more overplayed than Brahms' First, yet I never tire of it.

Some do, however, just as you've tired of Beethoven's Op. 92.

[AnotherSpin]

I feel this is a strawman. I've never met anyone who tried to shove Brahms' first symphony down my throat.

I don't even know where all your resentment comes from. The only way that the Brahms' first suffers from its fame is just like every Romantic era warhorse, it is overperformed in concert.

No one ever pushed Brahms' First Symphony on me. Many years ago, I was fortunate enough to begin my acquaintance with it through an outstanding performance, Böhm with the Vienna Philharmonic. At that time, I was barely familiar with Brahms' music at all, perhaps except for a track on the Yes album Fragile...  

That very first encounter with the First Symphony amazed me in the best possible way. For an instant I understood that this was the real thing, and I still listen to this symphony with undiminished interest to this day.

[ritter]

I don't know. Tchaikovsky's PC1 is also an overplayed warhorse, perhaps even more overplayed than Brahms' First, yet I never tire of it.

Some do, however, ....

Did someone mention my name ?

[Florestan]

That may be the most eccentric remark on this thread.

It's exaggerated on purpose.

My point is this: Brahms's First consciously tries very hard to live up to self-imposed expectations and standards; one can palpably feel that he consciously set himself the task of creating a symphonic masterpiece that could stand comparison with all symphonic masterpieces that preceded it, first and foremost Beethoven's --- he allowed himself no freedom, spontaneity and freshness. Every time I hear the first movement, after a few minutes I feel the urge to shout out loud: For God's sake, man, cut the crap and get to the point! Throw off your darn shackles and let loose your imagination and feelings! Break free from that darn ghost which haunts you and give us something of your own! And every time Brahms fails to deliver.

Mozart and Haydn felt no such "responsibility" and created themselves no such shackles. They just wrote what they felt --- and such freedom, spontaneity and freshness allowed Mozart to write at the tender age of 8 an Andante which has as much depth and is as wistful as anything Brahms ever wrote at 40 and beyond, and Haydn to write a symphony which clearly and joyfully points to greater things to come instead of obsessively pondering on greater things that were.

In Schillerian terms, Brahms is consciously sentimental while Haydn and Mozart are naturally naive. Small wonder my sympathy goes to to the latter.