Bruckner's Abbey

[Brian]

As a lifelong non-Christian, I am drawn to Bruckner's music - especially the wordless music - because even if you are not Catholic or Christian at all, the sincere questing and emotional probing of his work has a universal quality. The sense of struggle, of trying to find order, trying to work through pain...these are things I feel and hear that are not necessarily as strong in the masses.

[AnotherSpin]

I honestly think that is an odd take. If the audience was seeking spirituality, then why are the masses listened to, recorded, and performed far less often? The symphonies are far more abstract. I don't think the narrative is true. People listen to Bruckner because his symphonies are great art. They don't listen to his music because they are covertly seeking God... it is a lazy narrative. Honeck should have tried harder IMO.

It also strips away the genius and hard work Bruckner put into his music by making him just a vessel for his faith. It is completely unfair. Other composers like Bach, known for their sacred output, are still discussed in terms of their compositional skills and their genius.

What is spirituality?

[calyptorhynchus]

This one:

I meant which version of the symphony, or did Mahler make his own edits?

[Cato]

Many thanks for the comments!

As a lifelong non-Christian, I am drawn to Bruckner's music - especially the wordless music - because even if you are not Catholic or Christian at all, the sincere questing and emotional probing of his work has a universal quality. The sense of struggle, of trying to find order, trying to work through pain...these are things I feel and hear that are not necessarily as strong in the masses.

Probably because of the texts and the nature of the Mass and the atmosphere of the ritual itself: the Church wanted music to support the texts, and not to impose extraneous things.

On the other hand, there are certain emotions at the hearts of the Kyrie Eleison, Benedictus, and the Agnus Dei.

If you want a Mass with a sense of struggle, see Beethoven's Missa Solemnis, especially the Credo!
😇

I honestly think that is an odd take. If the audience was seeking spirituality, then why are the masses listened to, recorded, and performed far less often? The symphonies are far more abstract. I don't think the narrative is true. People listen to Bruckner because his symphonies are great art. They don't listen to his music because they are covertly seeking God... it is a lazy narrative. Honeck should have tried harder IMO.

It also strips away the genius and hard work Bruckner put into his music by making him just a vessel for his faith. It is completely unfair. Other composers like Bach, known for their sacred output, are still discussed in terms of their compositional skills and their genius.

I read it more simply than that. I take from the comment that regardless of one's perspective on spirituality and religion, there's something about Bruckner's music that speaks to the soul. People feel something in a way that not all music makes them feel.

But I might be imposing my own interpretation.

One could say that if you want to find Bruckner's beliefs in his music, you could do so.  But the music works as a powerful expression without knowing anything about his biography. 

Worth asking: if you didn't know Bruckner himself was religious, could you guess it from his music?

My first impression of Bruckner symphonies was "cosmic space music." Or "primeval nature music." That's what I liked about it.

The other cliche is that Bruckner was writing "organ music for orchestra." I think people say this because they know he was an organist. I figure if he wanted to write organ music, he would have done so.

Yes, that "organ-music" cliche' I have read for 6 decades, usually as a criticism: some analysts have claimed that his orchestration derives from organ registration.

Whatever!      

[Cato]

We have bought tickets for the Cincinnati Symphony performance of Bruckner's Symphony #9 in November!

The reconstructed Finale is not included, but...

Marek Janowski will be the conductor.


See:


https://audienceaccess.co/show/HNCR-11850

Tonight is the big night for the Bruckner Ninth (3-movements).  The Mozart Symphony #39 is also on the program!

I will try to report tomorrow or by Sunday!

[Cato]

Tonight is the big night for the Bruckner Ninth (3-movements).  The Mozart Symphony #39 is also on the program!

I will try to report tomorrow or by Sunday!

The Bruckner Symphony IX concert with Marek Janowski and The Cincinnati Symphony received an immediate standing ovation last night!

Everything was on target: the ominous first movement and its high points, as well as its subtle ones, were excellent.  Janowski himself is a subtle conductor, a minimalist with his arms, the baton stirring the music's cooking pot gently, even during explosive climaxes.

In short, the music gets the attention, not his body language.

The Scherzo was as brutal as anything I have heard on recordings, perhaps even more so!  The Scherzo, I have often thought, points the way more to Prokofiev and Bartok than to Mahler or Schoenberg, and this dynamic performance seemed to emphasize that.

Of course, the Adagio is radical in its own anguished way, and Janowski and the orchestra brought that aspect out as well, with a shattering performance of the Adagio's climax. Then came the more peaceful final bars of acceptance, played delicately with the subtleties exposed for contemplation.

I should mention that Janowski seemed to have made sure that the polyphony in the score was given its due, e.g. violas were often just as clear as everyone else, and that was something I noticed with pleasure!

[lordlance]

The Bruckner Symphony IX concert with Marek Janowski and The Cincinnati Symphony received an immediate standing ovation last night!

Everything was on target: the ominous first movement and its high points, as well as its subtle ones, were excellent.  Janowski himself is a subtle conductor, a minimalist with his arms, the baton stirring the music's cooking pot gently, even during explosive climaxes.

In short, the music gets the attention, not his body language.

The Scherzo was as brutal as anything I have heard on recordings, perhaps even more so!  The Scherzo, I have often thought, points the way more to Prokofiev and Bartok than to Mahler or Schoenberg, and this dynamic performance seemed to emphasize that.

Of course, the Adagio is radical in its own anguished way, and Janowski and the orchestra brought that aspect out as well, with a shattering performance of the Adagio's climax. Then came the more peaceful final bars of acceptance, played delicately with the subtleties exposed for contemplation.

I should mention that Janowski seemed to have made sure that the polyphony in the score was given its due, e.g. violas were often just as clear as everyone else, and that was something I noticed with pleasure!

A glowing review, Cato. I admit it's slightly off topic but what are Janowski's best orchestral recordings? 

[Cato]

A glowing review, Cato. I admit it's slightly off topic but what are Janowski's best orchestral recordings?

Marek Janowski has become famous for his conducting of Wagner's operas, and for complete Beethoven and Bruckner symphonies.  I am not acquainted with any of them.

I have listened, however, to his conducting of various other composers now and then (Schumann symphonies, Richard Strauss) and have felt quite satisfied.

[Cato]

The Bruckner Symphony IX concert with Marek Janowski and The Cincinnati Symphony received an immediate standing ovation last night!

Everything was on target: the ominous first movement and its high points, as well as its subtle ones, were excellent.  Janowski himself is a subtle conductor, a minimalist with his arms, the baton stirring the music's cooking pot gently, even during explosive climaxes.

In short, the music gets the attention, not his body language.

The Scherzo was as brutal as anything I have heard on recordings, perhaps even more so!  The Scherzo, I have often thought, points the way more to Prokofiev and Bartok than to Mahler or Schoenberg, and this dynamic performance seemed to emphasize that.

Of course, the Adagio is radical in its own anguished way, and Janowski and the orchestra brought that aspect out as well, with a shattering performance of the Adagio's climax. Then came the more peaceful final bars of acceptance, played delicately with the subtleties exposed for contemplation.

I should mention that Janowski seemed to have made sure that the polyphony in the score was given its due, e.g. violas were often just as clear as everyone else, and that was something I noticed with pleasure!

I should mention that Maestro Janowski is 85 years old!

Amazing energy!

[André]

I have a few of his Bruckner recordings and like them very much.

Also, a live performance of Beethoven's Eroica by him and his Swiss Guards is the best I've ever heard.

[Cato]

I have a few of his Bruckner recordings and like them very much.

Also, a live performance of Beethoven's Eroica by him and his Swiss Guards is the best I've ever heard.

Thanks for the recommendation, André!

[Cato]

I just learned recently that Professor John Phillips, who was a member of the quartet of musicians piecing together the last part of the Finale of Bruckner's Symphony #9, and who released his own revised version of the movement a year or so go to great acclaim (Eliahu Inbal has conducted it, and a recent performance by the Halle Orchestra was well received), has suffered a stroke.

Professor Phillips lives and teaches in Australia.  He wrote this to me:

Even though everyone says I'm incredibly lucky and making great strides in recovery etc, this is the worst experience of my life, an absolute nightmare. My LH piano technique is in shreds, and I can't type properly, let alone think clearly.

For those interested, a MIDI version of his revision of the Finale can be found here: a recording by a major orchestra and conductor seems to be on the menu.

[Cato]

I just learned recently that Professor John Phillips, who was a member of the quartet of musicians piecing together the last part of the Finale of Bruckner's Symphony #9, and who released his own revised version of the movement a year or so go to great acclaim (Eliahu Inbal has conducted it, and a recent performance by the Halle Orchestra was well received), has suffered a stroke.

Professor Phillips lives and teaches in Australia.  He wrote this to me:

For those interested, a MIDI version of his revision of the Finale can be found here: a recording by a major orchestra and conductor seems to be on the menu.

A review of the Halle' Orchestra's recent performance:

https://theartsdesk.com/classical-music/hall%C3%A9-wong-bridgewater-hall-manchester-review-bruckner%E2%80%99s-ninth-completed

An excerpt:

...The Adagio, long seen as a kind of death-bed farewell, seems different when you know there is in fact a finale to come, and this time it had momentum, even drama, the counterpoint of Bruckner's writing (particularly the combination of two violin lines and horn melody) exquisitely blended....

...Then there was the finale movement. It has to contain a fugue and a big "chorale" tune, because Bruckner said as much, and in the reconstruction it is a complex and many-faceted structure, with drama from the start. There was energy and excitement, and unusual instrumental timbres (the clarinets in chalumeau register near the beginning, for instance), but the highlight comes with what Dr Phillips calls "one of the greatest passages in all Bruckner" as the key centre turns from D minor to D major....

And other news about the four-movement version via the YouTube link above:

...the Concertgebouw Amsterdam will perform the work in Amsterdam, February 2025, under Riccardo Chailly.

 https://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/en.... Maestro Chailly will further be performing the work at three concerts in Milan with the Filarmonica of the Teatro La Scala, in March 2025. https://www.teatroallascala.org/it/st.... I will be speaking at a discussion session "Un nuova Finale per la Nona" at the "A. Toscanini" hall, La Scala, Milan, 5pm, 14 March 2025, with Alberto Fassone and Riccardo Chailly: https://www.teatroallascala.org/it/st...

The Taipei Symphony Orchestra will also perform the work under Maestro Inbal in November 2025.

[Cato]

Concerning the Bruckner Ninth Symphony performance last Friday by the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra conducted by Marek Janowski, a friend in the audience, who had not heard the work in many decades, sent me this reaction:

"To have attended a live performance - in a great auditorium, performed by a fantastic orchestra, of Bruckner's 9th Symphony, is simply an indescribable phenomenon!

My soul is still buzzing from last weekend! What we experienced was almost beyond comprehension, bordering on a revelation from Jehovah God Himself! Will it change our lives? Too early to tell!

He added that if he were a friend of Bill Gates, he would be borrowing his jet to fly to Amsterdam to hear the four-movement version in February!  However, he does not hang around with such highly questionable people!   

[Cato]

This came across on a Bruckner website: Paul Hindemith conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra in a televised concert of Bruckner's Symphony #7:

[Que]

[....] to fly to Amsterdam to hear the four-movement version in February!

Great acoustics... 

[brewski]

Tonight, live from Carnegie Hall at 8:00 pm EST, Kirill Petrenko and the Berlin Philharmonic in Bruckner 5. Listen on WQXR here.

-Bruce

[André]

Tonight, live from Carnegie Hall at 8:00 pm EST, Kirill Petrenko and the Berlin Philharmonic in Bruckner 5. Listen on WQXR here.

-Bruce

Well, that was something. Never heard the piece conceived that way. It sounded like a patchwork of starkly different moments put together haphazardly, but the total confidence with which it was carried was extraordinarily impressive.

First movement: somber, severe brass chorales buzzed (amazing trombones), gigantic low string pizzicati questioned hesitantly, powerful allegros scampered away like panicked horses. Kind of a schizophrenic take on the movement. The impression was probably heightened by the bizarre sound balance: string pizz and wind solos loud and in your lap, the sound compressing and receding suddenly at fortissimo outbursts. That last chord was quite a thwack.

Second movement. Petrenko doesn't dawdle. This is not Karajan's churchy dirge, it's a flowing, singing, hopeful, confident paean to the divinity. Once again the balance plays tricks with what is probably an incredibly beautiful and powerful orchestral outpouring in the concert hall. Very loud wind solos (a single flute almost painful to the ears, very loud coughs from the audience) while the full orchestra sounded suddenly compressed. Still powerful, but manipulated in the control room.

Third movement. Petrenko and the Berliners went to town with this scherzo. Admirably paced, strings scampered, trumpets gleamed shamelessly. The ländler sections were swinging smartly (no half asleep dancing bear here). Nice tempo adjustments throughout - things suddenly accelerating/slowing at all the right places. Really impressive.

Finale. That last movement is a beast - the Operation Overlord of symphonic finales. I did expect the fugue theme from the clarinet solo to be of jumbo size (and it was), but I didn't expect the string fugue to be launched with such heft and incisiveness. My ! What power and weight from the massed low strings ! The ensuing string dance on the fugue theme was wonderfully airborne, singing and alert. The development was alternately urgent and defiant or massively brutish (brass chorales tight and dense), screws tightening with each iteration/transformation of the fugue theme. The massed brass sound terrific. I'd wager that Petrenko has them on a less tight leash than under Rattle or Abbado, encouraging them to produce full, dense, almost raw tone, their powerful burr definitely hinting at a symphonic organ sound. Amazing buildup toward the conclusion, with a gigantic crescendo erupting in the coda - the symphony's triumphant Godzilla moment. The Berliners hammer that last chord with a savage thwack (timpani outstanding throughout). Whew !

I didn't time the movements but overall it was a fast performance, more like 70 minutes, not the 80 minutes the announcers had expected.

If this comes out on record I'm sure to buy it.

[Cato]

Well, that was something. Never heard the piece conceived that way. It sounded like a patchwork of starkly different moments put together haphazardly, but the total confidence with which it was carried was extraordinarily impressive.

First movement: somber, severe brass chorales buzzed (amazing trombones), gigantic low string pizzicati questioned hesitantly, powerful allegros scampered away like panicked horses. Kind of a schizophrenic take on the movement. The impression was probably heightened by the bizarre sound balance: string pizz and wind solos loud and in your lap, the sound compressing and receding suddenly at fortissimo outbursts. That last chord was quite a thwack.

Second movement. Petrenko doesn't dawdle. This is not Karajan's churchy dirge, it's a flowing, singing, hopeful, confident paean to the divinity. Once again the balance plays tricks with what is probably an incredibly beautiful and powerful orchestral outpouring in the concert hall. Very loud wind solos (a single flute almost painful to the ears, very loud coughs from the audience) while the full orchestra sounded suddenly compressed. Still powerful, but manipulated in the control room.

Third movement. Petrenko and the Berliners went to town with this scherzo. Admirably paced, strings scampered, trumpets gleamed shamelessly. The ländler sections were swinging smartly (no half asleep dancing bear here). Nice tempo adjustments throughout - things suddenly accelerating/slowing at all the right places. Really impressive.

Finale. That last movement is a beast - the Operation Overlord of symphonic finales. I did expect the fugue theme from the clarinet solo to be of jumbo size (and it was), but I didn't expect the string fugue to be launched with such heft and incisiveness. My ! What power and weight from the massed low strings ! The ensuing string dance on the fugue theme was wonderfully airborne, singing and alert. The development was alternately urgent and defiant or massively brutish (brass chorales tight and dense), screws tightening with each iteration/transformation of the fugue theme. The massed brass sound terrific. I'd wager that Petrenko has them on a less tight leash than under Rattle or Abbado, encouraging them to produce full, dense, almost raw tone, their powerful burr definitely hinting at a symphonic organ sound. Amazing buildup toward the conclusion, with a gigantic crescendo erupting in the coda - the symphony's triumphant Godzilla moment. The Berliners hammer that last chord with a savage thwack (timpani outstanding throughout). Whew !

I didn't time the movements but overall it was a fast performance, more like 70 minutes, not the 80 minutes the announcers had expected.

If this comes out on record I'm sure to buy it.

Excellent and highly intriguing review!!!

Is the broadcast available online somehow?

Many thanks for your efforts!

[brewski]

Well, that was something. Never heard the piece conceived that way.

Neither had I! And I also liked it immensely. Thank you for writing about it at length.

I will likely be revisiting the archived broadcast, when it's up.

-Bruce