J.S. Bach on the Organ

[prémont]

He needed at least an instrument with 32ft pedals.. .

In neobaroque and continental baroque organs a full sounding 32´ register is vary rare. Most of these are buzzing 32´Fagot´s (I use to call this kind of register a motorcycle register)

[prémont]

Yes, Corti's Tamburinis are not ideal (recording sound is also not very pithy), but IMO they're much better than f.i. the Montréal Beckerath used by Lagacé. I think I even prefer them to Bowyer's rather cold Marcussen (Odense).

We are in complete agreement here.

(And it's Kooiman the Second who's in the lead, a neck in front from Beekman, third is Foccroulle followed by Corti. Next in the field is Rübsam the First from Ritchie, behind them there's a packed group lead by Koopman, Vernet and Alain the Second, with Weinberger, Fagius and both Walcha's not that far away. Then comes Steinberger with Rogg the Second, and Vad and Hurford are still very close with maybe a chance to make up some ground in the next hundred yards or so. )
I'd like to add though that this is only a silly 'race' between completists.

IMO it isn´t but a rough guideline. And to specify more than "among top three" or "among top ten" is without sense, because very few integrals are sufficiently consistent to be ranked in that way.

BTW who is Steinberger?

[Marc]

In neobaroque and continental baroque organs a full sounding 32´ register is vary rare. Most of these are buzzing 32´Fagot´s (I use to call this kind of register a motorcycle register)

Yeah, apparantly he was a romantic bloke.

[....]
BTW who is Steinberger?

You don't know Steinberger?



He should be your 34th, then.
I meant Weinmeier, obviously. Or was it Stocksilber? Or Gambolputty jr.?
Me thinks me should check my collection again.

[prémont]

Never Bach is more Bach that when he is seated at the organ and I have never listened to another organist able to convey at the same time the ethic (moral) and aesthetic power of this music at the high degree as Walcha is able to do it. Everything seems originally thought by him from the very beginning.

In a way it is exactly this "everything seems originally thought by him from the very beginning", which is his greatest force and his greatest weakness. He never had much interest in informed playing (call it HIP) and his original and self constituted way of showing as well the overall structure and the counterpoint of the music leads also to many stylistic problems first and foremost concerning registration and articulation. I deliberately refrain from critisizing his agogics, because this is a rather subjective matter. But summa summarum: If I want to meet Bach the musical architect, Walcha is unsurpassed, and I find both his two integrals mandatory for true Bach lovers, but if I want to meet Bach the musician, I consult the ones which I consider my "top three". But this point illustrates as well the absurdity of chosing any top anything.

I agree about Hurford, Preston and particularly Bowyer, but I think Herrick is in a different league. I wouldn't have problem to give him a place among my top tens. Anyway, I know I will be alone here. 

No you will not be alone here. I too find Herrick to be in another league than Hurford, Preston and  Bowyer. I would call his playing amiable and much of the music benefits by this kind of approach.

[prémont]

You don't know Steinberger?

I meant Weinmeier, obviously. Or was it Stocksilber? Or Gambolputty jr.?
Me thinks me should check my collection again.

Weinberger or Stockmeier. Actually I find them both very rewarding in their very different ways. It will never stop to surprise me how different Bach´s works can be played and still make sense.

[Marc]

And let's not forget this sympathetic 'contender':

http://www.blockmrecords.org/bach/

Hurrah for him, too!

[Marc]

[....]
Here's another complete BWV 548 in E-minor. This composition is definitely one of my favourite Bach works.

Is it played in an acceptable way here?

http://www.mediafire.com/?5x944y5p9b2bc9y

Still curious what other members think about this one ....

[prémont]

And let's not forget this sympathetic 'contender':

http://www.blockmrecords.org/bach/

Hurrah for him, too!

His (Kibbie´s) efforts are worth much praise, but I can not say I think he adds anything individual of interest.

[prémont]

Still curious what other members think about this one ....

Here's another complete BWV 548 in E-minor. This composition is definitely one of my favourite Bach works.

Is it played in an acceptable way here?

http://www.mediafire.com/?5x944y5p9b2bc9y

Downloaded this three hours ago. Will burn it to CD and give it an intense listen, but not until to morrow.

[FideLeo]

Still curious what other members think about this one ....

(The fugue) pretty wild, like some of Ton Koopman's playing (see my post above), but even less disciplined than I'd like.

Downloaded this three hours ago. Will burn it to CD and give it an intense listen, but not until to morrow.

Haven't you got a mp3 player?  I am surprised.

[Marc]

His (Kibbie´s) efforts are worth much praise, but I can not say I think he adds anything individual of interest.

Much praise, no costs, only some downloading time .... still worth a 'hurrah'!
Very nice opportunity for newbies to check out Bach's impressive organ catalogue.

[rubio]

My top three also, with the exception that I am a little in doubt, whether I should rank Foccroulle or Alain II (despite her use of modern organs) as no.3. The other would then be no. 4.

But please do not call me a SPYTSLIKKER for that reason.

Which set is the Alain II? The cheap one on Teldec?

[jlaurson]

Which set is the Alain II? The cheap one on Teldec?

Not exactly Teldec... but yes, Erato, which is also part of Warner's re-issue activities.
Her third is also on Warner, but currently oop and on baroque organs Bach may have played on...



J.S. Bach (1685 - 1750
Complete Organ Works
Marie-Clarie Alain [Second Traversal]
Erato/Warner

[prémont]

Haven't you got a mp3 player?  I am surprised.

No, I do not think I really need it, since I do not download that much mp3 files.

[SonicMan46]

Just arrived! Organ works w/ Koopman - 16 discs! And yes, $12 on Amazon (already up $3 more on a check tonight) - just starting in on the first disc - a long way to go; brief liner notes (but expected in this kind of offering) - 

[Que]

Just arrived! Organ works w/ Koopman - 16 discs! And yes, $12 on Amazon (already up $3 more on a check tonight) - just starting in on the first disc - a long way to go; brief liner notes (but expected in this kind of offering) - 

Dave, the texts of the sung chorales, a wonderful asset to this set, can be downloaded HERE (direct link to pdf-file).

Q

[SonicMan46]

Dave, the texts of the sung chorales, a wonderful asset to this set, can be downloaded HERE (direct link to pdf-file).

Thanks Q - I've printed the pages and will also put the PDF file on my den laptop for viewing as needed - Dave 

[Coopmv]

Just arrived! Organ works w/ Koopman - 16 discs! And yes, $12 on Amazon (already up $3 more on a check tonight) - just starting in on the first disc - a long way to go; brief liner notes (but expected in this kind of offering) - 

You will finish listening to the set ahead of me, as my set is still in the cellophane ...   

[Marc]

Just arrived! Organ works w/ Koopman - 16 discs! And yes, $12 on Amazon (already up $3 more on a check tonight) - just starting in on the first disc - a long way to go; brief liner notes (but expected in this kind of offering) - 
[....]

Have fun!

One of my favourite chorale arrangement compositions for organ is BWV 686 Aus tiefer Not schrei' ich zu dir, which belongs to the Third Part of Bach's Clavier-Übung. It gives me the shivers.
Ton Koopman's performance, played on the great Silbermann organ of the Freiberger Dom, is very impressive.

And what about these three?

http://www.mediafire.com/?6r512bpcj273492

http://www.mediafire.com/?2w82izcaw652vkn

http://www.mediafire.com/?2186wu184euuo02

[prémont]

Here's another complete BWV 548 in E-minor. This composition is definitely one of my favourite Bach works.

http://www.mediafire.com/?5x944y5p9b2bc9y

I have heard at least 75 different interpretations of this work (CDs, LPs, broadcasts, organ recitals), but I do not recognize the style of this organist.

To begin with the organ.It sounds like a great North German baroque organ with its rather sharp mixtures and strong pedal reeds. The sound quality of the recording is not first rate so it is difficult to "get" the individuality of the  organ. It might well be the Schnitger/Hinsz organ of St. Martini / Groningen, which is tuned about  the pitch of the mystery recording (a1 = ca 466). Another possibility is the Müller organ in Jacobijnerkerk. Leeuwarden (pitch a1 = 460) but this is tuned in equal temperament, something I do not think the mystery organ is. And there are several other possibilities (not the Harlem, Zwolle or Alkmaar though - nor does the sound remind me of the St.Jacobi/Hamburg organ)

I think the mystery recording reflects the spirit of a so called live recording, a one time venue. This is stressed by the fact that the organist sometimes looses the "microcontrol" of the fingers, and the odd executing  of the thematic trill of the fugue subject at its first presentation would probably have been corrected in another take.

The playing is generally HIP influenced, but I do not think the organist belongs to the latest generation of organists. His way of distributing the "tutti" and "solo" episodes to the HW and RP respectively combined with his very detached articulation of the fugue subject (the wedge proper) points IMO to an organist born before 1950. The interpretation is tense and sometimes hectic, becoming rather extatic in the run of the fugue. I suppose the organist is Dutch, but he/she might as well be German. I have no idea of the name.