New Releases

[Jo498]

The "Decca" are the 1970s Bayreuth Ring Blurays, I believe.

I don't think the dismal view on "4D" DGG recordings is shared by so many. It's not as great as claimed but it's often better than their 1980s early digital recordings.

[ritter]

AFAIK, the Decca recordings are an (earlyish) disc of Harrison Birtwistle's The Triumph of Time (originally on Argo) and the two discs on which Mitsuko Uchida appears (Berg's Chamber Concerto, coupled with Mozart's Gran Partita) and the Schoenberg Piano Concerto. The Bayreuth Ring was originally on Philips (and the DVDs were later issued with the DG livery).

[aukhawk]

I don't think the dismal view on "4D" DGG recordings is shared by so many. It's not as great as claimed but it's often better than their 1980s early digital recordings.

They abandoned the 4D branding pretty quickly (and removed it from some re-issues of material originally branded 4D) but that doesn't mean they abandoned the concept or the general engineering methods.  Instead those methods just quietly moved into the mainstream.

[ritter]

AFAIK, the Decca recordings are an (earlyish) disc of Harrison Birtwistle's The Triumph of Time (originally on Argo) and the two discs on which Mitsuko Uchida appears (Berg's Chamber Concerto, coupled with Mozart's Gran Partita) and the Schoenberg Piano Concerto. The Bayreuth Ring was originally on Philips (and the DVDs were later issued with the DG livery).

Oh, and I forgot: there is another Boulez / Decca recording, which was never transferred to CD and is AFAIK the first recording he ever made. It's Paul Claudel's play Christophe Colomb, with incidental music by Darius Milhaud, recorded in 1955 when Boulez was music director of the Renaud - Barrault theatre company. This is not to be confused with Milhaud's and Claudel's opera of the same title, which is an independent but related work. Boulez never went on to record any Milhaud, but may have occasionally conducted his music (I once saw an advert for an EIC concert in Barcelona in 1992 conducted by Boulez that surprisingly included the name Milhaud in the programme -- the memorable concerts just a couple of days before in Madrid, which I attended, certainly did not have any Milhaud, but the "usual"  Boulez, Schoenberg, and Stravinsky). I do not recall any references to Milhaud in Boulez' writings, but he did profess a great admiration for Claudel.

In any case, the record I mention above is really the recording of a play, with lots of spoken dialogue, and little music as such. It does not seem to be included in this mega-box (at least, it does not appear in jpc's listing of the contents).

Here is the original record sleeve, in its London livery:

[MusicTurner]

Interesting and informative post, thank you.

[Spotted Horses]

They abandoned the 4D branding pretty quickly (and removed it from some re-issues of material originally branded 4D) but that doesn't mean they abandoned the concept or the general engineering methods.  Instead those methods just quietly moved into the mainstream.

I have exactly one "4D" branded CD and I looked in the (scanned) booklet and read the blurb on 4D. Sounds pretty technically backward, some sort of hybrid ADC with two 18 bit converters running at different gain, combined with an undefined algorithm to generate an effective 21 bit converter. Huh? At the time other labels were hyping their 24-bit masters on album covers. I think the main issue was they used the digital mixer with effective unlimited number of inputs to record with a very large number of microphones. The way to make a beautiful recording is to have an array of a few well placed microphones and let the concert hall mix the sound. After I got a few 4D recordings (Boulez/Bartok, if I recall correctly) I pretty much stopped buying DG recordings.

[Hans Holbein]

Does anyone know why Mahler 6 is in the Boulez box twice? (Discs 35 and 43)

A Decca album seems to be missing: Berg & Mozart with Uchida & Tetzlaff. Another piece that's not on the DG list: the Tristan act 1 prelude that was couple with Schoenberg's Pelleas.

I do wish that they would just include whole albums, even if Boulez does not conduct the whole thing. For example the Schoenberg piano concerto with Uchida which has solo piano music on the album as well. Or the first recording of the Berg chamber cto which has chamber works. Just include the whole original album! Especially if you're using original cover art.

The Sony box did this too, with Webern - only included the tracks that he conducted, not the piano or chamber music.

[Mandryka]

A whole series of 8 Josquin mass recordings now available on spotify, amazon. The first time these performances have been available out of Japan. The style is very "modal" in the sense of Rebecca Stewart, which is good for me.

[ritter]

Does anyone know why Mahler 6 is in the Boulez box twice? (Discs 35 and 43)

A Decca album seems to be missing: Berg & Mozart with Uchida & Tetzlaff. Another piece that's not on the DG list: the Tristan act 1 prelude that was couple with Schoenberg's Pelleas.

I do wish that they would just include whole albums, even if Boulez does not conduct the whole thing. For example the Schoenberg piano concerto with Uchida which has solo piano music on the album as well. Or the first recording of the Berg chamber cto which has chamber works. Just include the whole original album! Especially if you're using original cover art.

The Sony box did this too, with Webern - only included the tracks that he conducted, not the piano or chamber music.

The second recording of Mahler's Sixth is live from Berlin in 2009 with the Staatskapelle. It seems to be included because it appeared in an earlier DG box commemorating the 450 years of that orchestra. I attended that concert (it was the last time I saw Boulez conduct).

The Berg Chamber Concerto is coupled —as in the original release— with the Mozart Gran Partita on CD 46.

I cannot find that Tristan prelude (it was the unusual concert version by Wagner himself, which includes a little bit of the Liebestod) either on the track listing (BTW, DG's webpage is a pain in the neck since it was redesigned some years ago, and is almost useless  ).

Strange about the exclusion  of some of the original fillers, because others are included (Birtwistle's Theseus Games, Barenboim playing Liszt solo piano pieces, etc.).

[Hans Holbein]

Thanks. Are you looking at a different list of contents? On the DG site CD 46 is listed as Ravel, not Berg/Mozart.

[ritter]

Now that's strange!  I am looking at the DG site, here: https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/catalogue/products/boulez-the-conductor-complete-recordings-on-dg-and-decca-12557.

When I open the track list of CD 46, the Berg and Mozart show up. Ravel seems to start on CD 47...

[Mirror Image]

I have exactly one "4D" branded CD and I looked in the (scanned) booklet and read the blurb on 4D. Sounds pretty technically backward, some sort of hybrid ADC with two 18 bit converters running at different gain, combined with an undefined algorithm to generate an effective 21 bit converter. Huh? At the time other labels were hyping their 24-bit masters on album covers. I think the main issue was they used the digital mixer with effective unlimited number of inputs to record with a very large number of microphones. The way to make a beautiful recording is to have an array of a few well placed microphones and let the concert hall mix the sound. After I got a few 4D recordings (Boulez/Bartok, if I recall correctly) I pretty much stopped buying DG recordings.

Okay, so what? A lot of people like the sound of these recordings and you do not. No need to beat a dead horse. I personally think they sound great and have no issues with them whatsoever. It's all a question of personal preferences.

[Hans Holbein]

Oh, thanks. That's a much more detailed listing than was posted before. And I'm sure more accurate.

Sill no sign of that Tristan prelude, so not quite a complete box I guess.

[Brian]

Okay, so what? A lot of people like the sound of these recordings and you do not. No need to beat a dead horse. I personally think they sound great and have issues with them whatsoever. It's all a question of personal preferences.

This is uncalled for. The whole point of this board is to share information, opinions, and perspectives. If people don't want to read opinions they disagree with, we all might as well stop posting anything.

[Mirror Image]

This is uncalled for. The whole point of this board is to share information, opinions, and perspectives. If people don't want to read opinions they disagree with, we all might as well stop posting anything.

I understand the purpose of a forum, but I'm simply pointing out that there's no need to post the same opinion over and over. If someone doesn't like something, okay fine, but there's no need to go on and on about it.

[Brian]

I understand the purpose of a forum, but I'm simply pointing out that there's no need to post the same opinion over and over. If someone doesn't like something, okay fine, but there's no need to go on and on about it.

I just searched for "4D" and his username and these two posts were the only two results. But I'll be happy to remind you of this conversation next time you barge into the Hurwitz thread. 

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

A whole series of 8 Josquin mass recordings now available on spotify, amazon. The first time these performances have been available out of Japan. The style is very "modal" in the sense of Rebecca Stewart, which is good for me.

Cool and hip art.

[Mirror Image]

I just searched for "4D" and his username and these two posts were the only two results. But I'll be happy to remind you of this conversation next time you barge into the Hurwitz thread. 

Fair enough.

[staxomega]

One major strength of the Triadic Memories is the sound. It's a bit fast though! Better to let it breathe I think. I like this one more

Judiwth Wegmann plays it very briskly, it changes the tone of the piece quite radically.

Changes in personal taste tend to happen slowly, if they take place, via a variety of factors ... 

You're being quite generous, from concerts I get the impression classical music listeners are the ones that have their minds closed tighter than a bear trap

[staxomega]

I have exactly one "4D" branded CD and I looked in the (scanned) booklet and read the blurb on 4D. Sounds pretty technically backward, some sort of hybrid ADC with two 18 bit converters running at different gain, combined with an undefined algorithm to generate an effective 21 bit converter. Huh? At the time other labels were hyping their 24-bit masters on album covers. I think the main issue was they used the digital mixer with effective unlimited number of inputs to record with a very large number of microphones. The way to make a beautiful recording is to have an array of a few well placed microphones and let the concert hall mix the sound. After I got a few 4D recordings (Boulez/Bartok, if I recall correctly) I pretty much stopped buying DG recordings.

I've read audiophiles complain about DG symphony recordings even in the tape era, with their use of too many microphones.

IMO DG made up some things too. Around the time The Originals remasters came out the blurb in the booklet almost made it sound like they were remixing the tracks which would have created quite a radically different sound from the LPs or old West German CDs. Yet in most instances The Originals remasters range from sounding marginally worse to marginally better. I think they were just EQ'ing them differently and selling us on some fancy techno babble.

To me the 4D marketing speak sounds like they were just using some multitrack digital console instead of an analog console, which as someone else said they and others carried on doing after analog tape recording was no longer done, just removing the 4D monicker.

To me there are bad sounding analog tape, digital era and 4D DG recordings as well as very good sounding ones. My general view on them is the recordings are what they are, if I like the performances enough I won't let the recording quality ruin anything for me. Some of my most favorite performances are on scratchy acetates and 78s.

Also +1 to what Brian said, I read through the thread from where I last left off and there was barely any discussion on this. I am all for learning about all things music related without stifling discourse.