Blind Comparison: Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique

[aukhawk]

Anyone? 

Since you ask 

5th - C5
For me, probably the best march of all the ones I heard (10 of them) - however overall just too many irritations - elderly recording, restless audience, wayward conducting. This was always doomed to be 5th of 5 in my list.  Looking at previous rounds where it was much liked, when all votes are in I expect it to end up in the top 3.


The next two are too close to call really, but -
4th - C2 (could really be 3rd==)
My favourite Finale of all - unfortunately it follows my least-liked march of the five here.  The slower movements are just meh and the waltz is OK but not played as straight as I like - which I accept is very much personal taste.  Probably the best SQ in this group though a bit reverberant.

3rd - C4
Another very good march, again a rather over-indulgent conducting style (though not in the same league as C5!).  The middle movement is better than average, the Finale good, but the first two movements too mannered for my taste.  Adequate but coarse recording.  Earlier in the game I had thought this could be Bernstein/NYPO - but he's gone already!


My top 2 are well ahead of the pack -
2nd - A4
Purely on performance, this one is outstanding in every sense - just very different to all the others.  The question is whether this unremittingly 'driven' approach, across all five movements, really works.  There's no love here - by the time the Finale strikes up it sounds as though everyone's keen to get to the bar!  I'm not always drawn to this kind of thing but here it seems successful - especially pays dividends in the helter-skelter waltz and in the middle movement.  After the previous three self-indulgent heart-on-sleeve vapour trails this one is a tonic.  Would be a good 2nd or 3rd version to have.
Sadly the sound quality is not really acceptable - especially bad in the 1st movement* - and so it cannot top my list.

* I'm trying to bear in mind that the files we're using may be a bit compromised, SQ-wise.  If it were to turn out that this recording is not as bad as the transfer I've been listening to suggests it is, then I'd put this 1st ...

1st - by the smallest of margins - B2
The Finale is very good (sardonic brass in the Dies Irae) and the first and second movements are played straight and no-nonsense, which I like.  The march starts nicely slow and draggy but does accelerate, in the end this and the middle movement are just average.  SQ is OK but not modern - a bit fierce sometimes.  Really what I like about this performance is that it lets the music itself shine through without too much interference.

And my Fantasy Fantastique -
Movt.1.- B2;   2.- A4;   3.- A4;   4.- C5;   5.- C2.

[TheGSMoeller]

Great stuff, aukhawk! 

[Brian]

Four down, one to go!

I have used alcoholic libations as a listening aid for three of the four. Should I grab a few more drinks and go back to re-listen to the unfortunate other reading?

[mc ukrneal]

Four down, one to go!

I have used alcoholic libations as a listening aid for three of the four. Should I grab a few more drinks and go back to re-listen to the unfortunate other reading?

Seems only fair!

[madaboutmahler]

Is everyone still OK with the deadline? This upcoming Sunday? Looking forward to seeing some more votes.

[mc ukrneal]

Is everyone still OK with the deadline? This upcoming Sunday? Looking forward to seeing some more votes.

I'm not sure. I listened to two of them and have been in idle mode since then (listening to very little music since then actually). Will let you know...

[Brian]

CRAP! I listened to and typed out complete notes on four of the entries, but in an hour I'm leaving for a trip that takes up the rest of the contest. And I have to clean house and run to the bank.

Here are my four listening notes, with an unfinished ranking. So sorry - I will listen to the fifth recording if the deadline is extended, but don't extend it because of my failing!

<<<UPDATED NOW COMPLETE!>>>

I am listening fresh. That is, I'm not going back to look at what I said about these recordings in previous rounds. Will I contradict myself? That would be fun!

A4
The first movement is always just a tick too fast, but it has character: energy, mania, a ripe romantic sweep and exuberance. I miss the repeat. I love the climaxes. The violins in the intro of the waltz pulse weirdly, something I've never heard before. The waltz is brisk, completely impossible to dance, but exciting. Sarge should like this scene in the countryside: again, very fast, comparatively, but in this movement, that just means it passes with motion and flow. I think I am starting to tire of the haste, slightly, although this is relatively close to how I like my "Scene aux champs." Just a little bit clearer articulation of the theme-and-variations structure.

The march to the scaffold is FLAWLESS. The only defect I hear is the lack of repeat, but everything else is completely working: the pace, slower than I expected, the angsty tuba work, the intensity, the distant drumming. I think the finale could start off more slowly, more atmospherically, especially to give contrast compared to the march's pace. The chimes are good, I won't subtract 0.5 for wimpiness. Oh man, when the party starts the brass goes nuts. Indeed, the sound quality is the only flaw here - you can't even hear the cymbal crash at the end!

Overall, a thrill-seeking, adventurous, truly wild account, where some of the flash is impaired by the old sound quality, but where some of the flash feels kind of empty and repetitive. 6.5 of 10; third place

B2
Really very good introduction. Another old recording, full of character, lovely violins, kind of wish the timpani wasn't washed out of the acoustic so much, but that's a price I'm willing to pay. Love the woodwinds too. In the waltz, the cornet soloist sounds truly regal, reflecting the overall elegance. Sweeping violins.

As much as I've enjoyed the first two movements, the 'Scene aux champs' cements this as a frontrunner. It does a model job of both contrasting with what's come before (not excessively fast like A4) and being fairly briskly paced nevertheless. There's great attention to detail. The biggest flaw with the 'Scene' is that the variation beginning around 33:20 takes much too long to really build momentum and excitement; the bass should rock harder.

Am I the only one for whom really terrible things happen at 37'? They do not affect my opinion. The wackadoo sounds made by the timpani afterward are a plus though.

Again, very good, very measured pace for the march, as I like. Fruity bassoons. The finale starts well, but GAH wimpy chimes (-0.5). Oh! I think I remember saying that this was a really Russian reading. Having heard the whole thing I'm no longer sure; it could still be central European, I suppose. Excellent all over, with only a few blemishes, and the worst of them is merely age. Well, no, the worst is wimpy chimes. That was a pity. 8.5 of 10; first place

C2
As I was for B2, I am quite tipsy. The first movement goes very competently, with great woodwind playing, but I can honestly say the second half slipped by without my noticing anything especially noteworthy. The waltz feels a bit inflexible: in places too fast, in places too slow, but mostly fast, and the decision to include the cornet obbligato is negated by the modesty with which it is played.

'Scene' is tranquil but maybe a bit lethargic and sweet. I don't much like the cor anglais. The march is perfectly competent without getting me all that engaged. I don't know what's missing from this recording: there's a lot that's very very good, but it simply doesn't strike me as being engaged or inspired. Obviously this is very hard to quantify. There's great clarity to the recording, and the clarinet solo in the finale is truly terrific.

Oh DANG these might be the best chimes in the whole competition. Now I'm starting to think of C2 as a very good first four movements capped by a spectacular finale - although the tubas really come and go in the 'Dies irae'. Oh man clarinets at 54:40. Oh man the ending. Yeah, the finale by itself would score a 10; the rest of the symphony is a mere 6.5. Alas!! So 7 of 10; second place

C4
Wow, a very slow, heavy opening. Wait, is this Muti/Philly? This performance sounds weirdly familiar, whatever it is. But the intro wakes up slowly. Sharp horns at 2:45. Not Muti after all. Man, the lead-in to the main allegro takes its sweet time - this makes the transition quite weird. The ending is very slow too, but what happens between, not so much. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Trending negative.

But hey, it's a really good waltz. Okay 'Scene aux champs' that's not especially exciting or lush or engaging. Thundery drums don't have much going on. The march is a letdown too, really lightweight timpani again, no repeat, lost bass drum, kind of a rush. Very distant offstage chimes, but they're the right sort of chimes. I could get used to this. In fact, the chimes are my favorite thing so far. In fact, I have to grudgingly admit that this is a really good reading a finale - thankfully, since this was headed for last place. 6 of 10; fifth and last.

C5
Terrible sound, pretty good playing, the allegro of the first movement really whips itself into a frenzy. Around the eight-minute mark the scales start to tip from impassioned to impatient. The movement's coda is truly fantastic, however. The waltz is very fast, isn't it? Not such a fan. I'd enjoy this a lot more if I was seeing it live, as some audience is.

This might be the best 'Scene' to make it to the final round. Truly excellently done, great atmosphere, pacing, balance of movement and picturesque quality. This makes the utter insanity of the March all the more jarring and weird. The March does not have a tempo I prefer.

Finale includes a truly great chime - forget what I said about C2, this is the absolute perfect chime - paired with an orchestral piano! I can't hear bassoons playing 'Dies irae'. Weirdly, given that the march is so weird, the finale really never catches fire the way C2's did. The last chord with the "cymbal crash" and added timpani is very, very off-book, and very over-the-top. I'm glad I heard this, but there is no way this will be my favorite. 6 of 10; fourth place

"Fantasy Symphonie"
first mvt: B2
second mvt:
third mvt: C5
fourth mvt: B2
fifth mvt: C2

Overall Rankings
1. Bernstein! [no vote: no recording with a #1 ranking, for me]
2. B2
3. C2
4. A4
5. C5
6. C4

I can honestly say I only liked one of these recordings. 

[AnthonyAthletic]

1st - B2 : 2nd - C4 : 3rd - C5 : 4th - A4 : 5th - C2

B2 - My First Choice

A calm tranquil opening, depicting a dreamlike state (scrumptious sound) all leading into superb brass in the second and third movements.  The third movement drew me in slowly, the strings taught and pulling you left and right just before you get beaten down with the superb brass again.

The march and especially finale were the highlight, Peter Cushing on Bells, Vincent Price pumping out the Dies Irae & Lee's Lord Summeraisle with his Troupe dancing crazily on the Hillside.

Personal choice but for me a real success....

C4 - My Second Choice

Another endearing opening, soft shimmering introduction akin (personally) again to Solti's Mahler 1st with the LSO.  This recording totally drew me in and took me on a journey of emotions from the 2 minute mark to the finale.  A real poetic flow of musical colour, more so in this version than the following three.  I was actually dancing with the stars in the waltz, a precursor to the madness to follow.

The orchestra is very deep, clear and forceful in the scaffold, the far away bells in the finale really brought forth the distance as the horror unfolds.  The dies irae and following skirmishes on the strings are done majestically.

Not a clue who this recording belongs to, but I did have it placed first in the first round.  I didn't get chance to list my results due to god awful work commitments in Dec/Jan....

C5 - My Third Choice

Although the first three movements didn't for me reach the heights of my first two choices, this still is a very fine recording.  I will await the results from Greg and Daniel to put me out of my misery as to who's version this is...

Quite an old live recording I perceive Watson, a singular occurrence of insurmountable background noise/tape hiss/transfer.  Deduction = an old recording...having said all that, Its not offputting at all.  The tempi ticks along at a fast rate, a very exciting recording which would have been a treasure for me in SACD.  The second and third movements were a pleasure and the string section really shines. 

Once again a personal choice and what sets it off for me is the finale which creates a marvellous sound of the Bells being backed up with a thundering piano bassline.  Really does bring out eeriness to the music as I've never heard it done this way before, certainly not in modern recordings.  Good because its different, and from the sound of it, surely a great night out in concert.

Many will not like this recording, for me its one I would go back to, and one I may very well buy when GS & Daniel 'fess up!!

A4 - My Fourth Choice

Absolutely nothing wrong with this version either, there's no point in myself pulling a recording down if I find all so far enjoyable.  The strings are once again superb, piercing, samurai's cutting out a really sharp edged sound.  This throughout seems a very fast reading, no respite at all.

Soundwise, well SACD it isn't but reading beyond the thin sound and looking at the performance its pretty darned good.

The waltz is too fast for me, imagine dancing to this...I'd have lost 6Ib's in 5 mins!!  So we can safely say this is not "Strictly Celibidache", I shouldn't like this it doesn't work or sit right but it is exciting.

The final two movements are done ok, nothing over zealous.  The bells don't resonate or give enough clang for me, the orchestra does create an air of supernatural chill but for me there's no blazing ending, no wakening from an opium kick, no chills or night terrors here.

Very good, not top three out of the five here...but well worth a third listen. 

C2 - My Fifth Choice

Ok, here's where I probably put an all time favourite in to fifth position, but as its fifth out of 20+ recordings then its not a bad thing.

Good points about this recording is that to me it is the finest recorded sound of the GMG final.  A Modern, Romantic reading...a syrupy dreamlike Fantastique; more lovingly done than the others but lacking the punch of the other four.  A little too slushy in the first three movements, the waltz conducted in my ears very Tchaikovsky like, more snap...less wallow.

The March to the Scaffold is done well and so is the tension in the finale, very strong Brass and Bells and cutting sound leading up to a strong awakening from a night terror.  A real cold sharp shock nicely achieved.

Once again, the best aurally of the five, but not top three in the GMG finalists.

Really enjoyed listening to these the last two weeks, on the back of a week off work, did them twice and changed my mind about three times but never on my winner, which is "B2"

Can't wait for others choices...been very interesting.

[madaboutmahler]

Thank you both, Brian and Tony, for your fantastic and always interesting comments, which were a pleasure to read!

Brian - it looks like we are going to be extending the deadline. How does this upcoming Friday sound to everyone?

[xochitl]

friday sounds good to me

[TheGSMoeller]

Great comments! Let's keep the votes coming!

[mc ukrneal]

I have two more to go and so Friday should be doable for me...

[TheGSMoeller]

I have two more to go and so Friday should be doable for me...

[Sergeant Rock]

Am I the only one for whom really terrible things happen at 37'?

No, you're not the only one. There's about 43 seconds worth of Max Headroom-like stuttering, and an explosion or two 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Brian - it looks like we are going to be extending the deadline. How does this upcoming Friday sound to everyone?

Yes, please indulge my tendency to procrastinate 


Sarge

[TheGSMoeller]

If this new deadline fails, I will officially announce Boulez/Cleveland as GMGs top choice for Symphonie Fantastique. 

[Brahmsian]

No, you're not the only one. There's about 43 seconds worth of Max Headroom-like stuttering, and an explosion or two 

Sarge

Wow....those are two words I have not seen since......1985 ish?   

[Sergeant Rock]

Wow....those are two words I have not seen since......1985 ish?   

Yeah, probably not heard or seen since before Brian was born 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

The last chord with the "cymbal crash" and added timpani is very, very off-book, and very over-the-top.

That's the clue I needed. I know who that live C5 is now 


Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

So here we are at the finals. I have chosen them in this order: A4, C4, B2, C2, C5. I really enjoyed the top 3.

A4 – Nice energetic start for the most part, and the poor sound quality is mostly ignored after that (though it is the biggest drag to this version).  Mostly very good precision and very nice dynamic contrasts throughout.  For the most part, I never moved or looked at the clock on this one (it moves along nicely too for the most part). The only downside of the faster speeds is a bit of breathless Waltz, but I think I could live with that considering the upside of the rest of it. Perhaps not to everyone's taste (and a few tempi that are pushed a bit hard) – I absolutely loved it! Ranking: 1

B2 – Much more tender start.  This is a more traditional version. It isn't quite as dramatic, but adds a beauty that the first doesn't really make much use of either. Here the waltz is clearly more ethereal and a thing of beauty, as well as power (in moments), though there is a bit of an odd balance with the trumpet. Nice crystal clear clangs towards the end, which I find suits the type of performance we have here.  Overall, full of flavor and quite well done. Ranking: 3.

C2 – Starts ok, though has a nice bit of detail and does seem to pick up speed a bit. I think the thing I don't like is the over-emphasis of the notes in some places, which makes it sound too stop and go (I guess it's a sforzando piano or fortissimo piano, but overdone for me).  Waltz is nice, except for the harp going crazy at about 18:40 or so - really distracts (is this a technical fault of the engineers?).  March has a regal, elegant feel to it, which I rather enjoyed. In fact, it makes a nice contrast with the surrounding movements, which I actually think helps it tremendously. Finale is nice, but I am not as thrilled with the balance here. Ranking: 4.

C4 – A quiet start, but moves along nicely. Not a fan of the strings here, which seem a bit limp in their entrances (thin) and only give the body I'd like once they have played a bit.  Regardless of the playing, I think the conductor has done a wonderful job in shaping the lines and illuminating the structure. Waltz is ok, though unison breaks down a couple times. Still, this is an exciting performance. March is not forceful as it could be – perhaps more regal in style. Finale is full and exciting.  In general, a wonderful conception, even if it is not always something I liked.  I really admired the conductor and the clarity with which he got his vision of the piece across.  Ranking: 2

C5 – Not as crisp a start as some of the others.  Good, but does not really get me quite as involved.  Harp overpowers near the beginning of the waltz and there are some unison issues.   March has moments, but seems unbalanced in its sound. I think this is an issue throughout. The finale is quite exciting though.   Ranking: 5.